[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Dahaa]

The main thing here is not the welfare of the coin, but only personal enrichment, who has the most coins. A very primitive deception. Who has the most coins?

Well at least we're making progress in the "mined coins" inverted marketcap olympics. Gained another place and consolidating the position after tentatively passing a competitor in the last 60 days. Compare with a couple of months ago.

Further endorsement of the sound judgement of reducing the aggregate scarcity value in the chain which is something the market clearly doesn't value

https://i.imgur.com/RGVjofA.png

Do you have a link to that source ? Interesting that they already applied the change (60% / 40%), that masternode operators and miners have not even activated yet or signaled approval for.
Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10

Masternodes : 61,9% implemented update v0.16.0.1 (need 80%)
Miners : below 5% signals approval in their mined blocks (need a minimum of 60%, pref 80%)

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[toknormal]

Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10...

I wrote that with a grin
not to do a deadly sin
but to avert banana skin
trader price the future in

[Mike323]

Quizzie you getting old now haha. You been in the dash game for years. You've seen a lot of changes, you've seen the found abandon it and you've seen it fail to stay relevant as time goes on. Yet you post about Icebreaker who hasn't posted in almost 2 years. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Wow this coin is for the losers hahahahahaha

[robertrodriguez]

Quizzie you getting old now haha. You been in the dash game for years. You've seen a lot of changes, you've seen the found abandon it and you've seen it fail to stay relevant as time goes on. Yet you post about Icebreaker who hasn't posted in almost 2 years. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Wow this coin is for the losers hahahahahaha

lol bro, don't give that idiot reasons to reply, people know by now he is just an idiot retarded troll who praise a sinking ship all day long. he is just like Trump, when the country is burning he says we are doing great, we are the best etc...simply RETARTED!
the 31 ranking speaks for itself! people don't want anything to do with this coin anymore and that's a shame. from 4th to 31 is just insane, there is no excuse for this.

[Dahaa]

Even a multi-million dollar blogger who posted a link to his videos on YouTube almost every day left this coin to "Cash Alternative TV" 

[qwizzie]

I remember the times when Dash coin traded at 0.1 BTC levels. I think that the project is being consolidated, and we will see a new development and promotion of this platform to the market. Many whales have a decent amount of Dash in their portfolios. Everything will be fine.

Yep, i agree. Everything will be fine.

Only for trolls it will never be fine, they will always find something to troll about.
What do you get when you have three trolls in a row ?

A triple troll.

What do triple trolls do really well ? They triple bump our Dash ANN thread really well.
Trolls, Pwned by Dash ANN since Day 1. They just miss the intelligence to realize that.

'You can't troll somebody who doesn't see it.'
- Lane Kiffin

Lane does have a point, which is why i love that ignore button so much.

I wonder at times how it feels like to post so many trolling posts, put so much time and effort into it, while knowing very few people in this Dash ANN will actually read their posts.
It must be a very disturbing feeling for these trolls deep deep inside, to know that they matter so little in here.

Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10...

I wrote that with a grin
not to do a deadly sin
but to avert banana skin
trader price the future in

Thank you for that lovely poem.

Here is a little tip for the trolls out there with the intention to further troll this Dash ANN thread, be creative and do the trolling in a poem.
I may even read it out of curiosity .. or not.

Don't be a boring troll, be an entertaining troll.
Class dismissed !! Back to work, little trolls.

[Dahaa]

That's exactly who read your posts and lost a lot of money! When we start writing the truth, we moan for you with trolls as it is beneficial for scammers. Look at his posts from above, he periodically gives signals to buy! Tag him on the forum as a scammer. I also suggest filing complaints about their YouTube channel so they can't spread their buy signal fraudulent schemes!

I remember the times when Dash coin traded at 0.1 BTC levels. I think that the project is being consolidated, and we will see a new development and promotion of this platform to the market. Many whales have a decent amount of Dash in their portfolios. Everything will be fine.

Yep, i agree. Everything will be fine.

Only for trolls it will never be fine, they will always find something to troll about.
What do you get when you have three trolls in a row ?

A triple troll.

What do triple trolls do really well ? They triple bump our Dash ANN thread really well.
Trolls, Pwned by Dash ANN since Day 1. They just miss the intelligence to realize that.

'You can't troll somebody who doesn't see it.'
- Lane Kiffin

Lane does have a point, which is why i love that ignore button so much.

I wonder at times how it feels like to post so many trolling posts, put so much time and effort into it, while knowing very few people in this Dash ANN will actually read their posts.
It must be a very disturbing feeling for these trolls deep deep inside, that they matter so little in here.

Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10...

I wrote that with a grin
not to do a deadly sin
but to avert banana skin
trader price the future in

Thank you for that lovely poem.

Here is a little tip for the trolls out there with the intention to further troll this Dash ANN thread, be creative and do the trolling in a poem.
I may even read it out of curiosity .. or not.

Don't be a boring troll, be an entertaining troll.

[Dahaa]

Although they have it on YouTube, and so everything is sad. Latest videos 901 views and 147 likes. Is this a multi-million dollar project?

That's exactly who read your posts and lost a lot of money! When we start writing the truth, we moan for you with trolls as it is beneficial for scammers. Look at his posts from above, he periodically gives signals to buy! Tag him on the forum as a scammer. I also suggest filing complaints about their YouTube channel so they can't spread their buy signal fraudulent schemes!

I remember the times when Dash coin traded at 0.1 BTC levels. I think that the project is being consolidated, and we will see a new development and promotion of this platform to the market. Many whales have a decent amount of Dash in their portfolios. Everything will be fine.

Yep, i agree. Everything will be fine.

Only for trolls it will never be fine, they will always find something to troll about.
What do you get when you have three trolls in a row ?

A triple troll.

What do triple trolls do really well ? They triple bump our Dash ANN thread really well.
Trolls, Pwned by Dash ANN since Day 1. They just miss the intelligence to realize that.

'You can't troll somebody who doesn't see it.'
- Lane Kiffin

Lane does have a point, which is why i love that ignore button so much.

I wonder at times how it feels like to post so many trolling posts, put so much time and effort into it, while knowing very few people in this Dash ANN will actually read their posts.
It must be a very disturbing feeling for these trolls deep deep inside, that they matter so little in here.

Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10...

I wrote that with a grin
not to do a deadly sin
but to avert banana skin
trader price the future in

Thank you for that lovely poem.

Here is a little tip for the trolls out there with the intention to further troll this Dash ANN thread, be creative and do the trolling in a poem.
I may even read it out of curiosity .. or not.

Don't be a boring troll, be an entertaining troll.

[Dahaa]

You have 147 YouTube Likes in the last video, this is a cheap cheat this type of 901 views cannot make. You can't even do that, but how do you consistently write about your growth?

Although they have it on YouTube, and so everything is sad. Latest videos 901 views and 147 likes. Is this a multi-million dollar project?

That's exactly who read your posts and lost a lot of money! When we start writing the truth, we moan for you with trolls as it is beneficial for scammers. Look at his posts from above, he periodically gives signals to buy! Tag him on the forum as a scammer. I also suggest filing complaints about their YouTube channel so they can't spread their buy signal fraudulent schemes!

I remember the times when Dash coin traded at 0.1 BTC levels. I think that the project is being consolidated, and we will see a new development and promotion of this platform to the market. Many whales have a decent amount of Dash in their portfolios. Everything will be fine.

Yep, i agree. Everything will be fine.

Only for trolls it will never be fine, they will always find something to troll about.
What do you get when you have three trolls in a row ?

A triple troll.

What do triple trolls do really well ? They triple bump our Dash ANN thread really well.
Trolls, Pwned by Dash ANN since Day 1. They just miss the intelligence to realize that.

'You can't troll somebody who doesn't see it.'
- Lane Kiffin

Lane does have a point, which is why i love that ignore button so much.

I wonder at times how it feels like to post so many trolling posts, put so much time and effort into it, while knowing very few people in this Dash ANN will actually read their posts.
It must be a very disturbing feeling for these trolls deep deep inside, that they matter so little in here.

Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10...

I wrote that with a grin
not to do a deadly sin
but to avert banana skin
trader price the future in

Thank you for that lovely poem.

Here is a little tip for the trolls out there with the intention to further troll this Dash ANN thread, be creative and do the trolling in a poem.
I may even read it out of curiosity .. or not.

Don't be a boring troll, be an entertaining troll.

[dafdaf]

↑ Some madman is yelling from inside his padded cell, is there professional help available round here?

[Dahaa]

 qwizzie, how many accounts do you have? 

https://i.imgur.com/wPkLi1I.png

↑ Some madman is yelling from inside his padded cell, is there professional help available round here?

[afbitcoins]

Do you have a link to that source ? Interesting that they already applied the change (60% / 40%), that masternode operators and miners have not even activated yet or signaled approval for.
Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10

Masternodes : 61,9% implemented update v0.16.0.1 (need 80%)
Miners : below 5% signals approval in their mined blocks (need a minimum of 60%, pref 80%)

Who decided to lower the miner approval to 60%? I dont remember voting on that. Has it always been 80% for past hardforks?

What happens if not enough miners signal approval ?

[afbitcoins]

Dash versus USD

(Dash vs BTC included in faint cyan colour)

chart

This dash versus fiat chart shows two large timescale channels, one bullish dating from 2014 to 2018. Followed by bear channel which Dash is still in the bottom half of, trying to push up through the centre line.

There are reasons to hope, based on technicals, that dash might be starting a new bull trend. (Bitcoin appears much more clearly to be heading that way and will probably drag all alts with it). But based on the long timescale picture from this chart Dash is still very much in its bear channel. It does appear like the low was around the end of last year with a brief lower spike back in March. I'd like to see dash break up into the top half of that bear channel.

I've marked a few milestones on the chart too. I think you can strongly argue that Dash benefited a lot from the bitcoin scaling war. After the creation of bitcoin cash however, there is now arguably a more obvious candidate than dash to take the big blocker  / low fees demand, not forgetting bitcoin SV and litecoin. Big blocks and cheap fees will not be a unique or big selling point for Dash.

Disappointingly chainlocks entered with a massive whimper.  It seems like the market doesn't care about chainlocks.  

Dash wants to be the best payments option, which means best digital cash. Instant transactions, cheap fees, optional privacy. Dash already has these. The forever promised decentralised evolution of easy user names instead of guids still to materialise. But even when it does. How do we know the market demands that? It didn't seem to demand Dash's instantsend, privatesend, chainlocks protection very much. Dash platform when it finally does arrive. Will it be demanded? Or are nice usernames just a nice to have that isn't really valued? Or, is dash platform supposed to take on etherium and provide a superior smart contracts platform or something ?  (a fools errand if so)

Does the world demand digital cash right now? Maybe it prefers digital money, ie store of value. In these unprecedented times are you better off spending cash or saving money.
 
Dash has fallen versus bitcoin much more than versus fiat (the faint cyan chart superimposed). In times like these (deep in bear markets) there is a lot of soul searching and introspection. Every dasher has an opinion what has gone wrong.

Ryan Taylor thinks miners are selling too much of the fresh supply, he thinks the dash network 'pays' them too much. He thinks we don't need the hashrate, we already have too much hashrate (AND has managed to engineer an actual change to the block reward protocol to take away miner reward). This will be implemented soon assuming miners support. Is Ryan correct with this assumption? Most masternode owners jump at the chance to take miner reward for themselves and voted accordingly. I am extremely unconvinced.

Toknormal and very few others ( I include myself with him) have very vocally on forums argued that this is the exact wrong approach. That the market appears to value 100% mined cryptos. And that dash should increase the allocation to miners to have a chance of competing without such strong headwinds. Far from decreasing miner allocation it should be increased. We think the market demands these coins born from the crucible of competitive mining. The market values them for scarcity and store of value.

There are others with different opinions still. Bigrcanada thinks speculation is still very unsophisticated and not based on any real fundamentals and in large part this is because dash is a victim of trolling. (dahaa anyone)

Anyway, I'll try and conclude. Dash still in a bear trend but chances high it will be dragged up with the whole cryptosphere. It does look like bottom reached versus fiat and bitcoin. Block reward changes will improve store of value if you are to believe the masternode community. In my opinion this will most definately not improve the store of value proposition for Dash. Dash is better than fiat and I predict will have a bull run against fiat. Against other pure proof of work coins. I believe Dash has fundamental headwinds because of the block allocation.

I lay it on the line. I hope the bigrcanada idea has merit and dash has sudden pump on some whimsical unsophisticated crypto wave I am so far not seeing evidence 'payments' is it.

[Dahaa]

Another positive draftsman. The only reaction to your masternodes is flying $ 31 to $ 38 and then $ 15 to $ 20. Take screenshots, this will only prove once again that these are scammers and I was right

Dash versus USD

(Dash vs BTC included in faint cyan colour)

https://www.tradingview.com/x/8aRee8Eg/chart

This dash versus fiat chart shows two large timescale channels, one bullish dating from 2014 to 2018. Followed by bear channel which Dash is still in the bottom half of, trying to push up through the centre line.

There are reasons to hope, based on technicals, that dash might be starting a new bull trend. (Bitcoin appears much more clearly to be heading that way and will probably drag all alts with it). But based on the long timescale picture from this chart Dash is still very much in its bear channel. It does appear like the low was around the end of last year with a brief lower spike back in March. I'd like to see dash break up into the top half of that bear channel.

I've marked a few milestones on the chart too. I think you can strongly argue that Dash benefited a lot from the bitcoin scaling war. After the creation of bitcoin cash however, there is now arguably a more obvious candidate than dash to take the big blocker  / low fees demand, not forgetting bitcoin SV and litecoin. Big blocks and cheap fees will not be a unique or big selling point for Dash.

Disappointingly chainlocks entered with a massive whimper.  It seems like the market doesn't care about chainlocks.  

Dash wants to be the best payments option, which means best digital cash. Instant transactions, cheap fees, optional privacy. Dash already has these. The forever promised decentralised evolution of easy user names instead of guids still to materialise. But even when it does. How do we know the market demands that? It didn't seem to demand Dash's instantsend, privatesend, chainlocks protection very much. Dash platform when it finally does arrive. Will it be demanded? Or are nice usernames just a nice to have that isn't really valued? Or, is dash platform supposed to take on etherium and provide a superior smart contracts platform or something ?  (a fools errand if so)

Does the world demand digital cash right now? Maybe it prefers digital money, ie store of value. In these unprecedented times are you better off spending cash or saving money.
 
Dash has fallen versus bitcoin much more than versus fiat (the faint cyan chart superimposed). In times like these (deep in bear markets) there is a lot of soul searching and introspection. Every dasher has an opinion what has gone wrong.

Ryan Taylor thinks miners are selling too much of the fresh supply, he thinks the dash network 'pays' them too much. He thinks we don't need the hashrate, we already have too much hashrate (AND has managed to engineer an actual change to the block reward protocol to take away miner reward). This will be implemented soon assuming miners support. Is Ryan correct with this assumption? Most masternode owners jump at the chance to take miner reward for themselves and voted accordingly. I am extremely unconvinced.

Toknormal and very few others ( I include myself with him) have very vocally on forums argued that this is the exact wrong approach. That the market appears to value 100% mined cryptos. And that dash should increase the allocation to miners to have a chance of competing without such strong headwinds. Far from decreasing miner allocation it should be increased. We think the market demands these coins born from the crucible of competitive mining. The market values them for scarcity and store of value.

There are others with different opinions still. Bigrcanada thinks speculation is still very unsophisticated and not based on any real fundamentals and in large part this is because dash is a victim of trolling. (dahaa anyone)

Anyway, I'll try and conclude. Dash still in a bear trend but chances high it will be dragged up with the whole cryptosphere. It does look like bottom reached versus fiat and bitcoin. Block reward changes will improve store of value if you are to believe the masternode community. In my opinion this will most definately not improve the store of value proposition for Dash. Dash is better than fiat and I predict will have a bull run against fiat. Against other pure proof of work coins. I believe Dash has fundamental headwinds because of the block allocation.

I lay it on the line. I hope the bigrcanada idea has merit and dash has sudden pump on some whimsical unsophisticated crypto wave I am so far not seeing evidence 'payments' is it.

[toknormal]

Ryan Taylor thinks miners are selling too much of the fresh supply, he thinks the dash network 'pays' them too much.

Miners selling = benign.
Masternodes selling = malignant.

That's the problem because a miner selling is a zero-sum game. Coin goes out and dollars come in. Those incoming dollars go into raising the price of the next block which sets the de facto "starting price" for the coins that emerge from it.

This is what is flawed about the thinking that tries to "minimise coins to market" from mining. First of all, whether a miner sells or holds is irrelevant because the financing still has to be found to cover the mining cost. If the miner holds then "they are the market". If they sell then the "exchange buyer" is the market. In either case the coin gets sold and ALL of the revenue is invested in the network (not in electricity companies as the flawed DCG economic model asserts) but in the network, because the chain is only as valuable as the initial price of the next block (which equals the cost of mining it) and if you progressively diminish that by reducing its scarcity then the market will simply devalue the entire chain accordingly.

Compare the mining (zero-sum) sales model with the sale of masternode rewards. In contrast with mining, the revenue that the masternode owner receives when they sell a reward coin is NOT invested in the network. So that coin had a mining cost of zero and generates zero revenue for the network. The two aspects of network value its sale revenue COULD have been invested in were:

1. scarcity (raising the "opening price" for the next block) as with 100% mined coins or
2. service provision

But it's invested in neither. Instead it's paid in pure dividend to MN holders at which point its value leaves the network entirely. That's the source of the chronic depletion of capital value in the chain. We have around 6500 MN reward Dash just raining down on us every week which are not supporting the price but decimating it. Bitcoin et al do not have this. Each one of their coins goes straight to maximising scarcity by attracting mining investment. Coin goes out, money comes in and that money raises the "opening price" of the next block. The value is retained in the chain.

We're just going to keep getting hammered down by these 6500 coins per week raining down on us like hail until we understand that.

P.S. People may say..."but masternodes deserve to be paid the dividend because they're protecting the network from sybil attacks".   <-- the flaw in this argument is that masternodes are NOT being paid anything. They're incurring such a capital loss that it offsets any Dash-denominated gain from the reward split. So the reward split ends up being meaningless anyway. The way to sort this is to restore the mining reward, retain capital in the chain, still pay masternodes a reward but adjust the setting so that a far higher proportion of that reward is capital gain instead of revenue gain. That way the store of value performance can be recovered for everybody.

[qwizzie]

Do you have a link to that source ? Interesting that they already applied the change (60% / 40%), that masternode operators and miners have not even activated yet or signaled approval for.
Until this gets activated by both masternode operators and miners, the blockreward re-allocation remains at 45/45/10

Masternodes : 61,9% implemented update v0.16.0.1 (need 80%)
Miners : below 5% signals approval in their mined blocks (need a minimum of 60%, pref 80%)

Who decided to lower the miner approval to 60%? I dont remember voting on that. Has it always been 80% for past hardforks?

What happens if not enough miners signal approval ?

Source : https://blog.dash.org/updated-product-brief-dash-core-release-v0-16-0-d3debdb6242e

Looks like you and toknormal finally disagree about something :

With regards to miners support : I like that DCG made the treshold percentage to lock-in the reward allocation change dynamic, to decrease every 4032 blocks from 80% to 60%.
This means that once we have support from 60% of the miners, we will not have to wait for a very long time on those mining pools that are slow to update.
There is now a max of (approx) 10 weeks after miners signal 60% support.

With regards to masternodes support : there will need to be enough support from the masternodes (80% or 90% ?) to activate spork 21  

Great !

At least it will be supported by two of the the three "M"s. I don't think it was designed for the third one anyway.

I don't think we need to consult the masternode network with regards to a git pull request (https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/3692), that was issued by the Dash Development Team
to speed up implementation of our Dash Core Wallet updates. Anyways, this will be a lengthy process, regardless if miners need to signal 80% or 60% + 10 weeks. I am just glad there is
some kind of end date now for these kind of large network updates. It somewhat reduces uncertainty about our update process.

With regards to what happens if not enough miners signal approval, i suspect we will need to vote over a new decision proposal of Ryan Taylor, focused on improving Dash store of value.
Percentage of miners signaling readiness for v0.16 can be found here : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html (V16.0 adoption)

[afbitcoins]

Looks like you and toknormal finally disagree about something :

I think I missed the part where we disagreed. What I read was toknormal elaborating on why the block reward hammers dash. Which I completely endorse.

I don't think we need to consult the masternode network with regards to a git pull request (https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/3692), that was issued by the Dash Development Team
to speed up implementation of our Dash Core Wallet updates. Anyways, this will be a lengthy process, regardless if miners need to signal 80% or 60% + 10 weeks. I am just glad there is
some kind of end date now for these kind of network updates.

With regards to what happens if not enough miners signal approval, i suspect we will need to vote over a new decision proposal of Ryan Taylor, focused on improving Dash store of value.

Hold on this isn't a normal update though.  Dash core group make proposal to take away rewards from miners AND lower the miner threshold needed to activate the change at the same time. Doesn't that smell bad?
Why lower to 60% if not because you are worried 80% won't be reached? Dash Core Group are afraid they don't have support from miners?
If this is true its a big deal.

[qwizzie]

Looks like you and toknormal finally disagree about something :

I think I missed the part where we disagreed. What I read was toknormal elaborating on why the block reward hammers dash. Which I completely endorse.

What i read was toknormal agreeing on the treshold percentage to lock-in the reward allocation change dynamic, to decrease every 4032 blocks from 80% to 60%.
Lets read my original post and his reaction to my post again :

With regards to miners support : I like that DCG made the treshold percentage to lock-in the reward allocation change dynamic, to decrease every 4032 blocks from 80% to 60%.
This means that once we have support from 60% of the miners, we will not have to wait for a very long time on those mining pools that are slow to update.
There is now a max of (approx) 10 weeks after miners signal 60% support.

With regards to masternodes support : there will need to be enough support from the masternodes (80% or 90% ?) to activate spork 21

Great !

At least it will be supported by two of the the three "M"s. I don't think it was designed for the third one anyway.

The problem is we (toknormal and i) already discussed this almost two weeks ago, you are a bit late with objecting to this 60% + 10 weeks change now.
And yes, you two do seem to disagree about the treshold percentage to lock-in the reward allocation changing dynamic, to decrease every 4032 blocks from 80% to 60%.

[afbitcoins]

Silly of me to think you were replying to the last two posts and not stuff from weeks ago. Well I guess we disagree on something afterall. If this threshold can be changed willy nilly, whats the point of it at all?

[qwizzie]

Silly of me to think you were replying to the last two posts and not stuff from weeks ago. Well I guess we disagree on something afterall. If this threshold can be changed willy nilly, whats the point of it at all?

If it really troubles you that much, you can raise it as an issue in the next DCG Summary Call. I have to say though that you are the first person (that i know of) that seems to have a problem with it.
It was announced here :

https://blog.dash.org/release-announcement-dash-core-v0-16-on-mainnet-870aa327240b

and in more details here :

https://blog.dash.org/updated-product-brief-dash-core-release-v0-16-0-d3debdb6242e