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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722673 times)
vella85
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October 19, 2020, 09:59:57 PM

Did someone mentioned masternodes ?  


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html (Count 7 Days)

Looks like number of active masternodes has been rising again (from 4,945 to 4,970 during the last 7 days).
ATH is at 4,988. Will it get broken ? Stay tuned....

I think it will be broken very soon as StakeCube has been starting a new masternode every 7 - 14 days on average as more people find that joining a shared masternode pool is much affordable for most as the minimum amount needed to join a pool is just 0.25 Dash. I actually think Dash is a steal at this price so I'll be buying more in the coming days.

I can promote your project on X to my 100k+ followers for a reasonable price. Just DM me for prices.
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October 19, 2020, 10:04:06 PM
Last edit: October 19, 2020, 10:59:01 PM by qwizzie

I think it will be broken very soon as StakeCube has been starting a new masternode every 7 - 14 days on average as more people find that joining a shared masternode pool is much affordable for most as the minimum amount needed to join a pool is just 0.25 Dash. I actually think Dash is a steal at this price so I'll be buying more in the coming days.

Actually it has been broken already, 30 more masternodes were activated on the Dash network in just a few hours  Grin
Welcome new ATH of 5000


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png

Which means that currently from Dash circulating supply of roughly 9,7 Million Dash (source : coinmarketcap),
5 Million Dash is serving as collateral for masternodes.
 
If people are looking for a way to get some interest on their Dash, they can also look into Binance.

DASH Added to Customizable Locked Savings on Binance
https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb

Just be aware this is a trusted service, not a trustless service. People will need to leave their Dash on Binance and
people will need to place trust in Binance.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
Tungi17
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October 20, 2020, 12:25:20 AM

DASH Partners with StakeHound Enabling Ethereum DeFi Users to Earn Rewards with StakedDASH StakeHound partners with DASH NEXT and Dash Core Group to offer DASH users access to DeFi applications while earning staking rewards.
https://newsroom.dash.org/112220-dash-partners-with-stakehound-enabling-ethereum-defi-users-to-earn-rewards-with-stakeddash

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October 20, 2020, 11:47:05 AM

I think it will be broken very soon as StakeCube has been starting a new masternode every 7 - 14 days on average as more people find that joining a shared masternode pool is much affordable for most as the minimum amount needed to join a pool is just 0.25 Dash. I actually think Dash is a steal at this price so I'll be buying more in the coming days.

Actually it has been broken already, 30 more masternodes were activated on the Dash network in just a few hours  Grin
Welcome new ATH of 5000


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png

Which means that currently from Dash circulating supply of roughly 9,7 Million Dash (source : coinmarketcap),
5 Million Dash is serving as collateral for masternodes.
 
If people are looking for a way to get some interest on their Dash, they can also look into Binance.

DASH Added to Customizable Locked Savings on Binance
https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb

Just be aware this is a trusted service, not a trustless service. People will need to leave their Dash on Binance and
people will need to place trust in Binance.

That's nice!  Grin
toknormal
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October 21, 2020, 12:51:43 PM
Last edit: October 21, 2020, 02:14:31 PM by toknormal




Dominic_Crypto
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October 21, 2020, 05:28:03 PM

Which means that currently from Dash circulating supply of roughly 9,7 Million Dash (source : coinmarketcap),
5 Million Dash is serving as collateral for masternodes.
 
If people are looking for a way to get some interest on their Dash, they can also look into Binance.

DASH Added to Customizable Locked Savings on Binance
https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb

Just be aware this is a trusted service, not a trustless service. People will need to leave their Dash on Binance and
people will need to place trust in Binance.

The situation is really interesting and intriguing. Binance is a very serious structure. I wonder what we'll see next?
afbitcoins
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October 21, 2020, 08:46:11 PM


Masternode owners refusing to consider they will be better off if the masternode reward is lowered (instead of raised). It reminds me of the monkey trap parable where the monkey grabs some nuts in a pot and then can't escape because it won't let go of the nuts and its cleched fist is too big to pull back through the small hole. Trapped by own greed.

vella85
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October 21, 2020, 09:47:38 PM

I think it will be broken very soon as StakeCube has been starting a new masternode every 7 - 14 days on average as more people find that joining a shared masternode pool is much affordable for most as the minimum amount needed to join a pool is just 0.25 Dash. I actually think Dash is a steal at this price so I'll be buying more in the coming days.

Actually it has been broken already, 30 more masternodes were activated on the Dash network in just a few hours  Grin
Welcome new ATH of 5000


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png

Which means that currently from Dash circulating supply of roughly 9,7 Million Dash (source : coinmarketcap),
5 Million Dash is serving as collateral for masternodes.
 
If people are looking for a way to get some interest on their Dash, they can also look into Binance.

DASH Added to Customizable Locked Savings on Binance
https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb

Just be aware this is a trusted service, not a trustless service. People will need to leave their Dash on Binance and
people will need to place trust in Binance.

Nice to see Binance join the party when it comes to offering interest on our Dash. I already mentioned in here that StakeCube already offers interest on Dash as well as shared masternodes and just recently launched their Dash mining so there are 3 potential incomes streams on StakeCube for earning more Dash and its great for smaller investors.

I can promote your project on X to my 100k+ followers for a reasonable price. Just DM me for prices.
toknormal
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October 21, 2020, 10:18:40 PM
Last edit: October 21, 2020, 10:50:49 PM by toknormal


Masternode owners refusing to consider they will be better off if the masternode reward is lowered (instead of raised). It reminds me of the monkey trap parable where the monkey grabs some nuts in a pot and then can't escape because it won't let go of the nuts and its cleched fist is too big to pull back through the small hole. Trapped by own greed.

That's because markets for store of value  don't value cakes that are simply chopped into smaller pieces as an offering. They buy a mined currency for scarcity which is measured in terms of financial effort required to obtain the next block in the chain.

If you have hashrate then the market for store of value wants it to be applied to all blocks. If it has the choice between 2 cryptos, one that applies its hashrate to 10/10 blocks and another that only applies its hashrate to 4/10....it's a no brainer. It will then do 2 things:

1. devalue the blocks you created on a purely numerical basis to zero

2. demote you in ranking for store of value compared with competing mined offerings

*****************************************************
How the market for store of value sees Dash for 10 blocks.
*****************************************************
Hashrate applied to 10/10 blocks vs Hashrate applied to only 4/10 blocks.



Now imagine what happens when the price rises. Even more of the investor's dollar proportionally is going to pay for that 6-block overhead. They don't want to do that. As we move away from miner-masternode parity in terms of margin, ever less of the investor's capital is returned to them immediately in terms of fundamentals (e.g. block scarcity or service layer investment). Instead the masternode profits become absolutely enormous and ultimately unsustainable = crash back to parity. We got away with it once without disappearing completely from view. We won't get away with it again.

Sure, it's good for masternodes and may attract the odd new one, but the masternode count reaches a ceiling very quickly. Specially now that we are already at 5000. The remaining coin supply becomes so fragmented at that level that there's no chance in hell for it to be consolidated into lumps of 1000.

So what does the remaining coin holding community do ? Dump. That is the only leverage they have over masternodes. They may not possess 1000 Dash but they have the ability to crash the capital value of those that do, albeit unconsciously and organically, operating as a free market.

The way around this and to make price rises sustainable is to maintain mining and masternode margins at a broad parity, thereby recompensing investors on the way up, whatever price they enter at, in the same way that bitcoin does = by giving them a stake in the network equivalent to the capital they invested. In addition to that we have utility, which gets funded the way it is at the moment, except appropriate to the cost of supplying that service. The rest of the reward has to be delivered through capital gain (which we will have a far higher chance of seeing with a reward ratio that's optimised for the market's benefit rather than masternode's).


jdmcg
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October 21, 2020, 10:59:48 PM


The last thing we need now is more de-fi sponsored masternodes on top of the 5000 we've already got, with their rewards raining down on order books instead of going towards keeping the block-price high.

Curious... wouldn't it be a good thing to have more masternodes? That would mean less reward for any individual masternode owner and this company StakeHound presumably takes a cut of masternode rewards before distributing the rest to ERC-20 Dash holders.

More masternodes does not equal more masternode rewards. Rewards for masternodes are per block, currently 1.44 DASH every 2.5 minutes to a masternode owner and 1.44 DASH to the miner who solved the block. Right now a masternode owner only gets a reward after 9 days, meaning they get just over 5 DASH a month.

I get you don't like the current level masternodes get paid at so it's very puzzling to me how you'd view this development as negative.

This also helps address what I think is a real issue which is the lack of liquidity. With all the DASH locked in masternodes and not being traded the order books are very thin. Sure this helps during a bull market, but it hurts maybe even more in a bear market.

With DASH that is both locked up in masternodes as well as available for trade on ETH, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I guess it will largely depend on how popular DASH ERC20 tokens become...
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October 22, 2020, 01:18:33 AM
Last edit: October 22, 2020, 02:40:47 AM by toknormal

Curious... wouldn't it be a good thing to have more masternodes? That would mean less reward for any individual masternode owner...

You'd have to define and denominate "reward" first. If you're only interested in measuring ROI denominated in Dash, then yes, possibly. But if you're measuring ROI in terms of purchasing power then you have to take into account capital gain or capital loss also.

In the second case, the ROI isn't determined by the Dash protocol but jointly decided between the Dash protocol and the external markets. Both have a say in how Dash is valued, and consequently the masternode ROI. In terms of purchasing power, the external market can adjust the reward ratio as it sees fit, so for us not to take account of that is suicidal and that market has been telling us we've got it wrong for a long time.

Another thing that is huge but was never taken account of in the protocol revision discussions: the problem of making the protocol only appeal to masternodes is that there's a restricted number of them and that number is already saturated for the most part. 1000 Dash has to be contiguous. That leaves the rest of the coin supply to trade as it sees fit and therefore in total control of the capital value of those nodes (see my post on Duffenomics as to how the two parts of the supply interact with each other).



The tail wagging the dog. We've all felt it- those invested in masternodes got screwed because the rest of the Dash coin supply was subject to free markets and was not getting the same return on its investment as it was with bitcoin, Litcoin, Monero, ZCash et al. (DO NOT think I'm advocating for Dash interest on non-masternode holdings - nobody gives a f* about having more Dash if it's continuously worthless. This post is about making a fixed amount of Dash have a higher purchasing power, not about how to slice a cake into ever thinner slices. That's the last thing Dash needs).

With a mined coin, all there is to invest in is hashrate. That's what makes the next block expensive and if Dash only applies its hash to 4/10 of its block while others apply it to 10/10, it's a no brainer where the investment's going to go. You can't even argue on utility because that hashrate thing is so powerful, the coin that has more hashrate gets more utility. Ease of use doesn't get a look in.

Dash says: "we don't need all this hashrate".
Market says: "we don't need you. We want to invest in hashrate and you only apply it to 4 out of 10 of your blocks"

The "store of value" market is investing in hashrate and the coin it gets is evidence of its investment. If the coin you give it represents evidence of 40% hashrate and 60% masternode luxury cruises, the market will not be very happy and devalue us.

How do We Fix It ?
Masternodes can still get those holiday cruises, but from capital gain once the market gets its return. The way Dash can do that is twofold:

  1. make it deliver capital value instantly the same as bitcoin does (by investing their cash in mining and applying than mining to as many of our blocks as possible to
make them scarce and expensive)

  2. HAVING DONE THAT.....make it competitive. Do things that other mined currencies can't

If you don't do 1 then 2 is worthless. It costs peanuts. Paypal can do it. 1 is essential which is why we need to so three things IMO:

  A. attract as much hashrate away from other coins as is humanly possible
  B. apply it to as many of our blocks as is humanly possible. That will raise the opening price of all new blocks
  C. within that constraint, decouple ourselves from our "hashrate"competitors by providing utility that they can only dream of while maintaining or capital value offering

We can do "C" because of the decoupled protocol. The beauty of it is that is allows us to maintain an extremely high mining reward ratio (e.g. 90%) while offering utility that's impossible for single-tier coins like litecoin or bitcoin.

But we have to work with the market to do it. We have to give the market what it gets from bitcoin in terms of mining scarcity and then breakaway competitively by offering it utility on top without compromising the market's investment.

The way to do that using a rule-of-thimb rather than a supercomputer is simply to keep the masternode and mining rewards at parity as the price rises. Masternodes will be happy because their capital investment is so huge that their reward is blown to smithereens by capital loss. The reward ratio is meaningless unless they're at a capital gain.

We must therefore double down on our heritage as a mined coin IMO and make that work for investors. Then once we're commercially healthy again from an investor-miner model, restore competitively. That's where the utility comes in. But we have to have things in perspective. Mining is the engine and bodywork of the car. Utility is the colour, shape and profile. If you don't have an engine and bodywork that's competitive, no amount of paint is going to make it work for the buyer.

How much more of a kicking are we going to take before we wake up and respond to what the market is telling us ?

This is what it's buying:
           vvv
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October 22, 2020, 01:20:25 AM

DASH Update 2020: Where is it Headed??

https://youtu.be/UKd_ZAn_pQ8

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October 22, 2020, 03:55:21 AM

Hmmm.... if the block reward percentage for miners was increased from 50% to 90%, nearly double, wouldn't the hashrate need to nearly double to maintain the current price? And what of the masternodes who would receive 5 times less than what they do now? You don't think that wouldn't cause a mass exodus and crash the price to new lows?

Now, speaking of the increased difficulty of being able to get 1000 DASH to set up a masternode as more are set up, this centralized solution StakeHound actually helps fix that, no? Now I only need 1 DASH to be a partial owner. And not that this is the first one, there are a couple other solutions that allow partial ownership of a masternode already.

After Dash Platform is released I hope a truly decentralized shared masternode solution can be developed. I do see this is a must to help alleviate the difficulty of more masternodes being set up.
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October 22, 2020, 07:43:55 AM
Last edit: October 22, 2020, 08:05:29 AM by qwizzie

V.0.16.0.1 Update Progress

Masternodes : Dash needs 80% of the masternodes updated. Once 80% of the masternodes have been updated, there will be an additional 7 days for masternode operators to update,
before spork 21 gets activated. Once spork 21 gets activated, masternodes not yet updated to v0.16.0.1 will start to receive PoSe scoring and will ultimately get PoSe banned from the network (which means
no more masternode rewards for those masternode operators).


Source : https://www.dashninja.pl/deterministic-masternodes.html

Miners : Dash currently needs 79.22% of miners signalling readiness for v0.16 in their mined blocked. This percentage will get lower each week, until after approx 10 weeks
the readiness level reaches 60%, after which it will stop declining any further. The percentage of miners signaling readiness will fluctuate heavily each day, but should see a gradual rise the coming weeks.  


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html (v16.0 Adoption)

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October 22, 2020, 09:04:19 AM
Last edit: October 22, 2020, 09:50:01 AM by toknormal


Hmmm.... if the block reward percentage for miners was increased from 50% to 90%, nearly double, wouldn't the hashrate need to nearly double to maintain the current price? And what of the masternodes who would receive 5 times less than what they do now? You don't think that wouldn't cause a mass exodus and crash the price to new lows?

They already receive less, that was my point. Masternode ROI is negative if the market wants it to be. The reward ratio is meaningless without taking account of capital loss. So yes - there may be an exodus initially, but once it stabilised again we wouldn't have this huge overhead to pass on to the market.

After Dash Platform is released I hope a truly decentralized shared masternode solution can be developed. I do see this is a must to help alleviate the difficulty of more masternodes being set up.

I don't see how this solves anything. It's just doing what peercoin did - inflating the supply on a purely numerical basis and spreading it around existing users. Look where it got them. It isn't what the (store of value) market wants. It wants high scarcity blocks, not the same cake sliced into ever thinner pieces & redistributed.

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October 22, 2020, 10:17:33 AM
Last edit: October 22, 2020, 10:49:26 AM by qwizzie

I don't see how this solves anything. It's just doing what peercoin did - inflating the supply on a purely numerical basis and spreading it around existing users.

The supply is the result of our emission rate schedule. Since Dash is not messing with the emission rate schedule in any way, there is no inflating of the supply.
Adjusting the blockreward allocation between masternodes and miners or increasing number of masternodes or increasing the number of miners will not inflate
or deflate our supply in any way.

The only reason Dash currently has a high supply inflation (between 6 & 7 percent) and will continue to have a high supply inflation for the next 5 years in comparison to other crypto projects, is our
emission rate schedule.
 
Emission rate schedule --> (Circulating) Supply
Emission rate schedule --> Max Supply



Source : https://coinmarketcap.com/coins/

Dash Supply Inflation



Source : https://terminal.bytetree.com/dash

Bitcoin Cash Supply Inflation



Source : https://terminal.bytetree.com/bitcoin-cash-abc

Litecoin Supply Inflation



Source : https://terminal.bytetree.com/litecoin

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October 22, 2020, 10:28:45 AM
Last edit: October 22, 2020, 11:17:19 AM by toknormal


Since Dash is not messing with the emission rate schedule in any way, there is no inflating of the supply.

Nice one in arguing a point I wasn't making.

I was pointing out that inflating the supply on a purely numerical basis (as Dash will do with 60% of its supply) as opposed to exposing every block to competitive mining is something the the (store of value) market doesn't like.

Remember, a masternode is just a miner with a zero cost base. <-- markets have a problem with this.
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October 22, 2020, 10:52:22 AM
Last edit: October 22, 2020, 11:21:02 AM by qwizzie


Since Dash is not messing with the emission rate schedule in any way, there is no inflating of the supply.

Nice one in arguing a point I wasn't making.

I was pointing out that inflating the supply on a purely numerical basis (as Dash will do with 60% of its supply) as opposed to exposing every block to compatitive mining is something the the (store of value) market does not like.

Remember, a masternode is just a miner with a zero cost base. <-- markets have a problem with this.

The market obviously don't see that 60% of supply, it just sees 100% of (circulating) supply --> 9,7 Million Dash as supply.


Source : coinmarketcap

You are literally the only one incorrectly seeing a whole lot less supply.

Every website out there is reporting 9,7 million Dash as Dash supply, not 60% of 9,7 Million Dash.
Just weird how you can ignore Dash supply like that. Even more weird is how you can fabricate a whole market theory around it. Just looking at it makes it fall apart.
To put this very blunt : every website out there reporting Dash supply is directly invalidating your market assumption in a very clear and obvious way.

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October 22, 2020, 11:19:51 AM

Every website out there is reporting 9,7 million Dash as Dash supply, not 60% of 9,7 Million Dash.

Could you please stop pretending I'm making an argument that I'm not making ?

It's nothing to do with the quantity of the supply, it's how it's valued by the market.
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October 22, 2020, 11:23:20 AM
Merited by aleix (1)

Every website out there is reporting 9,7 million Dash as Dash supply, not 60% of 9,7 Million Dash.

Could you please stop pretending I'm making an argument that I'm not making ?

It's nothing to do with the quantity of the supply, it's how it's valued by the market.

How so ? Because you think that the market value it that way ?
That is a very weak and personal assumption of how you think the market values things.
And you are not even providing any proof for that.

I guess we will just have to take your word for it, that you are the only one who totally understands what the market likes and not likes, values and not values.




Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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