[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Nthelight]

This seems to be a no-brainer, trustless shared masternodes should be top priority after Dash Platform's release. And it shouldn't even be that complicated.

So what happens if you have 1000 contributors to a single trustless shared collateral address and one of them moves their funds ? The entire node stops receiving rewards ?

A queing system where leavers are swapped out for joiners ? How do you then manage all that without traffic windows where the node is unserviceable ? How do you manage priority ?

Moving Dash away from your collateral address will result in your masternode going offline as the collateral requirement will no longer be found by the masternode network. The applicable UTXO will be 'spent'. This is verified via the registered 'collateralHash' (TXID hash) parameter used in the DIP003 'protx register_prepare' command. You will need to reinitiate the entire DIP003 registration procedure, even if you move Dash back to the same address to meet the collateral requirement, simply because it will now be sitting at a new UTXO.

Even if you define a new system with multiple UTXO's for the collateral requirement, you will still face the same problem.

Of course you could define a new MN collateral requirement with multiple UTXOs, maybe even define a new type 'shared MN' so we don't affect scalability and network efficiency too much.
The complexity of moving in and out would probably have to be managed off-chain as far as I can tell. Perhaps something with a queueing system (as you say) could be worked out which automatically registers the MN again, but with other stakes waiting in the queue. Also, you need to make a payment to register, so access to the fee address is required. You can just sense there is going to be a whole array of challenges. Perhaps people who really want to join an on-chain shared MN should lock in their collateral for a period of time to eliminate this variability.

Anyhow, the core developers should address the matter of "shared masternodes" after Dash Platform is released, as previously discussed.

Thanks for the reply but you quoted me as saying something toknormal actually posted... anyways I fixed it for you above...

I see, my bad.

I don't think anything I laid out for a trustless shared masternode would be overly complex to implement. I also don't see why there would be any need to lock in collateral or any need for a waiting queue. There is no need to move in and out collateral. A shared masternode needs to be registered right from the beginning with the collateral txs (either 1 UTXO of 1000 DASH, 5 UTXOs of 200 DASH each or 10 UTXOs of 100 DASH each). If anything is moved out the masternode no longer meets the collateral requirements and is no longer considered online.

I don't think there should be any attempt to develop a waiting queue for people who only have 100 or 200 DASH. Rather the person with only 100 or 200 DASH should go seek out other people who are willing to complete the collateral requirement together. Then each person with a share can send special transactions which instruct the masternode network that they wish to set up a masternode together and which address each one would get paid at. Then as long as all the requirements are met, the masternode is registered and behaves no differently then any other masternode fully collateralized by a single UTXO.

I don't think there should be any attempt to develop a waiting queue for people who only have 100 or 200 DASH. Rather the person with only 100 or 200 DASH should go seek out other people who are willing to complete the collateral requirement together. Then each person with a share can send special transactions which instruct the masternode network that they wish to set up a masternode together and which address each one would get paid at. Then as long as all the requirements are met, the masternode is registered and behaves no differently then any other masternode fully collateralized by a single UTXO.

Ah, now I understand how you see it. I didn't realise you were intending for the co-ordination of 'members' to be managed off-chain. Apologies.

So you just mean that the collateral would be held in multiple addresses instead of 1 ?

That would be simpler to do than what I was understanding. To me "trustless" meant that you don't even need any "friends" to collateralise the node. But I can still see issues, mainly that any one of them could just bring down the node by moving their funds, so it depends on human co-operation. But I can still see the perceived benefit. It's not one that I think is a very high priority because it's not a great solution for anything other than "friends". Institutionals couldn't rely on it because they'd need to control the address on behalf of their subscribers. So even if the address was split they'd still be controlling them all.

So I still think all this stuff needs to be in the trusted sector and securitised. I don't think multiple address collateral adds anything to the service potential of the chain other than as you say "friends".

But technically it's a lot simpler than what I thought you originally were advocating.

@jdmcg
There does not have to be a time lock feature on it, it was just an idea which would reduce the variability caused by people moving away their collateral from the shared MN making the shared MN service more stable. Looking for a new friend to join every time someone drops out is not going to be an enjoyable experience.

What I was thinking was a third party service where the newly defined shared MN type is monitored and available spots are displayed when the shared MN does not meet the collateral requirement. On this website, people who want to join a shared MN could see how they need to register their 'share' (e.g. 100) to join an available spot of a non-compliant shared MN, facilitating arbitrage between those who are already part of the shared MN and the one(s) looking to join one. It is perhaps possible that a new person simply registers his share through the normal process, with reference to the 'shared MN identifier' so the network knows which 10 UTXOs are linked into a shared MN and is compliant again with the 1000 Dash collateral requirement for MNs.

Even so, shared MNOs would still have to deal with the variability of shared MNOs leaving and joining. I'm not sure how attractive this setup would really be in reality.

As said, introducing shared MNs will likely have a scaling and network efficiency effect and therefore it would be good to hear from the devs what the best design would be. They have always said that it is "technically possible", but I'm not sure to what extent they think it's a good idea.

@toknormal
It's definitely not a priority, but many people have been requesting this feature for a long time. So it would be good to have a formal analysis on it when more time is available, to see what is really possible and if the benefits outweigh the downsides.

Your idea of a derivative market for Dash/MNs is of course also possible, but would likely only speak to a certain class of investors. It has also been tried already. I can't seem to recall the name of the company who provided this. They got wrecked as they started offering this service around the peak of the Dash 2017 bull market.

The more options the better I suppose.


Ideally, people stop looking at masternodes as an investment and stop caring about the service reward. Dash is an asset which should be attractive in itself because of its upside potential. Whether that Dash is used in an MN or not, should not matter. Too many people are distracted with this service reward. It should be understood that it is of inferior importance to the capital gains upside potential.

Masternodes have always had this duality of being infrastructure created to service the network on one hand, but are also regarded by some/many as an investment vehicle.

Truth is, we don't need more masternodes. There is no immediate benefit to the end user. The focus of investment potential should be on Dash itself, not on masternodes in my opinion.

Contrary to @qwizzie I never invested in Darkcoin because of the masternodes service reward. There were no masternodes in early 2014. Nobody knew back then that there would be a service reward for running masternodes. Investment in Darkcoin happened because Evan published a white paper talking about implementing trustless coinjoin on-chain (in the protocol). That is what gets people going, because it provides a huge benefit over the current market offerings with trusted centralized mixing services. It was a radical innovation that made Darkcoin the first privacy enhanced cryptocurrency in the market. This is what provides huge upside potential in terms of capital gains, not some imo irrelevant service reward. There is so much focus on masternodes that it completely distorts the main benefits of Dash over other cryptocurrencies. In many people's minds Dash is (just) a "masternode coin" and that does not do justice to Dash's innovations.

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[qwizzie]

Dash's Masternodes, what are they ? how many are there ? why should i care?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860067.0
Date : 17 Nov 2014

See specifically in that thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860067.msg10193880#msg10193880 (the Masternode Payment schedule)
That was my initial reason for trying to get as many masternodes as i could. In 2015 the blockreward split settled on 45% / 45% / 10%, but i was still in buy mode till 2017,
when the Dash bull run emerged (pretty much out of the blue) and drove up the Dash price too high for me to continue buying.

I seem to recall other altcoins followed with their bull run a bit later (early 2018 ?).

[Nthelight]

DCG Head of Marketing
https://blog.dash.org/dcg-head-of-marketing-52fa56619eac

Dash Core Group is officially kicking off the process to select a Head of Marketing.

I honestly think that Ryan is wrong to continue 'focusing' on South America. His stuborness on this strategy is worrying. No matter how well intended it is, it is wrong to put too much focus on a market in an underdeveloped region.

We need someone who is present in the crypto space and promotes the hell out of Dash and I have much doubt that this new head of marketing will be able to do so.

I understand Ryan's reasoning, but he needs to face up to reality and that is that crypto still is a speculative asset and therefore you need to primarily attract speculative investment where it is available!

Honestly, everyone involved in Dash needs to step up and do their part in promoting Dash on all his available channels. Promote Dash on social media (Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook ...). Use your existing accounts or make new ones to talk about or promote Dash. Get active. Add comments about Dash to popular crypto videos, but also on Dash's official videos. Get the number of views and comments up. Add comments about Dash on tweets. Make memes. Whatever. Make noise. It will have much more effect than the 'Venezuela' adoption strategy. Hundreds, thousands of Dash holders spreading the message is far more powerful than what any single 'marketing' person can ever achieve.

[jdmcg]

I don't think there should be any attempt to develop a waiting queue for people who only have 100 or 200 DASH. Rather the person with only 100 or 200 DASH should go seek out other people who are willing to complete the collateral requirement together. Then each person with a share can send special transactions which instruct the masternode network that they wish to set up a masternode together and which address each one would get paid at. Then as long as all the requirements are met, the masternode is registered and behaves no differently then any other masternode fully collateralized by a single UTXO.

Ah, now I understand how you see it. I didn't realise you were intending for the co-ordination of 'members' to be managed off-chain. Apologies.

So you just mean that the collateral would be held in multiple addresses instead of 1 ?

That would be simpler to do than what I was understanding. To me "trustless" meant that you don't even need any "friends" to collateralise the node. But I can still see issues, mainly that any one of them could just bring down the node by moving their funds, so it depends on human co-operation. But I can still see the perceived benefit. It's not one that I think is a very high priority because it's not a great solution for anything other than "friends". Institutionals couldn't rely on it because they'd need to control the address on behalf of their subscribers. So even if the address was split they'd still be controlling them all.

So I still think all this stuff needs to be in the trusted sector and securitised. I don't think multiple address collateral adds anything to the service potential of the chain other than as you say "friends".

But technically it's a lot simpler than what I thought you originally were advocating.

Ok, good point regarding this being limited to a group of friends. So, perhaps a collateral lock is required and each share owner would have to include the lock length (no lock, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc) so as then to keep the masternode in tact for at least that time. Once the lock has expired either the masternode automatically goes offline or maybe it stays online indefinitely as long as none of the share owners move their collateral.

Any other possible downsides?

[Nthelight]

I'm a Dash Bull, are you?

[Pang.]

DCG Head of Marketing
https://blog.dash.org/dcg-head-of-marketing-52fa56619eac

Dash Core Group is officially kicking off the process to select a Head of Marketing.

I honestly think that Ryan is wrong to continue 'focusing' on South America. His stuborness on this strategy is worrying. No matter how well intended it is, it is wrong to put too much focus on a market in an underdeveloped region.

We need someone who is present in the crypto space and promotes the hell out of Dash and I have much doubt that this new head of marketing will be able to do so.

I understand Ryan's reasoning, but he needs to face up to reality and that is that crypto still is a speculative asset and therefore you need to primarily attract speculative investment where it is available!

Honestly, everyone involved in Dash needs to step up and do their part in promoting Dash on all his available channels. Promote Dash on social media (Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook ...). Use your existing accounts or make new ones to talk about or promote Dash. Get active. Add comments about Dash to popular crypto videos, but also on Dash's official videos. Get the number of views and comments up. Add comments about Dash on tweets. Make memes. Whatever. Make noise. It will have much more effect than the 'Venezuela' adoption strategy. Hundreds, thousands of Dash holders spreading the message is far more powerful than what any single 'marketing' person can ever achieve.

It's been more than two years since I said that, and nobody paid attention to me.

I always put the same example. I have traveled to South America, and there they perfectly accept euros and dollars, do you know why?

Well, because it is the currency that is used mostly in international trade in the first world.

Do we want Dash to be used in South America by precarious and weak economies or for it to be used in the first world and then spread to the rest?

I have nothing against projects in South America, there are people and projects with potential there, but to sell something popular, you have to promote it where there are large movements of people and capital.

Make Dash go mainstream in countries like the USA, Europe or Japan, and I guarantee that South America will run after dash and not dash after South America.

[birdonthewire]

It's definitely not a priority, but many people have been requesting this feature for a long time. So it would be nice to have a formal analysis when more time is available, to see what is actually possible and if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

Of course it is a priority. Beyond that, the fact that many people have requested it for a long time has occurred because DASH was engaged in its official channels, as well as in other media, on the lips of people installed at the top of the DASH hierarchy and all this paid by the DAO, to implement them. That's the difference between a business dissatisfaction and a scam. Although it is certain that if there were any movement, it would be disguised as "consideration for the needs of the user community", when in a decentralized structure, condescension, like trust, is simply unnecessary.



The truth is, we don't need any more masternodes. There is no immediate benefit to the end user. The focus of investment potential should be on Dash itself, not the masternodes in my opinion.

Of course the investment focus should be on the value of the asset ... but it is you who is constantly approaching it from the economic prism. The WORST thing about not offering shared Mnodes to the real DASH community (euphemistically, the "users") is the centralization with which the corrupt Mnodes gang manages to overstep their attributions as "workers of a service layer" to take them to the point to own the project completely. With the law in hand, you have not only the rewards and the "common" Treasury in your hands, but anything else that occurs to you at your entire disposal, such as premeditated and subsidized censorship and information intoxication, breaches that last YEARS, rentals of $ 55,000 of empty facilities, or silence in response to community members who demand explanations about it ... while the parasitic hierarchy continues in its advantageous positions and there are colored glasses parties on the DASH news channels. What in a project that hypocritically "sells" decentralization is perfectly reflected in the price.

Microholders don't need the modest rewards they can get from joining shared Mnodes as an incentive to sustain their DASH. But integrating into their FAVORITE cryptosystem, from which they are trickily marginalized, yes. On the contrary, and as a supposed aspiring decentralized organization, the one that does need a constant voting niche that decides in the interest of the general of the project and at least bothers large owners to impose their whims, is the DASH ecosystem.



I honestly think that Ryan is wrong to continue 'focusing' on South America. His stuborness on this strategy is worrying. No matter how well intended it is, it is wrong to put too much focus on a market in an underdeveloped region.

... and in alt36 ... and in imposing its dogma that adoption would stabilize the price of DASH for years (and take advantage of its information distortion channels veto and try to ridicule any debate on the matter while the crypto ranking was filled with stable coins and DASH was falling bare chest for 3 years) ... and fuming about Evolution's default going into its fifth year ... and doing so with a RIDICULAR store of value proposition - imo, knowingly -. But worse than that succession of erroneous strategies, including the one you point to and others that remain unmentioned, is, deep down, the insane ability to centralize decisions and opinion trends that one person has and the resignation of the "brilliant" Mnodes, guardians of efficiency in DASH, before it.



Honestly, everyone involved in Dash needs to step up and do their part in promoting Dash on all his available channels. Promote Dash on social media (Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook ...). Use your existing accounts or make new ones to talk about or promote Dash. Get active. Add comments about Dash to popular crypto videos, but also on Dash's official videos. Get the number of views and comments up. Add comments about Dash on tweets. Make memes. Whatever. Make noise. It will have much more effect than the 'Venezuela' adoption strategy. Hundreds, thousands of Dash holders spreading the message is far more powerful than what any single 'marketing' person can ever achieve.

LOL  
 "Honestly" ? ..."everyone involved in DASH"? ... NOW? ... But ... we were not talking about "Mnodes community"? From "buy 5 Mnodes to have an opinion on DASH"? ( that's not yours, it's the typical arrogant and marginalizing Mnode contempt on Discord) ... You thought that cutting the neck of the REAL community WAS FREE, huh? ... Are you understanding why the integration of a massive real community is an INEXCUSABLE part of success in crypto? Why "not everything is money" in particular of Shared Mnodes? (or is it only for those who put it before dignity?)

Anyway ... you have a couple hundred people holding 5000 Mnodes ... call them to the front line. The network effect of that "popular tsunami" can be monstrous.

[Nthelight]

DCG Head of Marketing
https://blog.dash.org/dcg-head-of-marketing-52fa56619eac

Dash Core Group is officially kicking off the process to select a Head of Marketing.

I honestly think that Ryan is wrong to continue 'focusing' on South America. His stuborness on this strategy is worrying. No matter how well intended it is, it is wrong to put too much focus on a market in an underdeveloped region.

We need someone who is present in the crypto space and promotes the hell out of Dash and I have much doubt that this new head of marketing will be able to do so.

I understand Ryan's reasoning, but he needs to face up to reality and that is that crypto still is a speculative asset and therefore you need to primarily attract speculative investment where it is available!

Honestly, everyone involved in Dash needs to step up and do their part in promoting Dash on all his available channels. Promote Dash on social media (Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook ...). Use your existing accounts or make new ones to talk about or promote Dash. Get active. Add comments about Dash to popular crypto videos, but also on Dash's official videos. Get the number of views and comments up. Add comments about Dash on tweets. Make memes. Whatever. Make noise. It will have much more effect than the 'Venezuela' adoption strategy. Hundreds, thousands of Dash holders spreading the message is far more powerful than what any single 'marketing' person can ever achieve.

It's been more than two years since I said that, and nobody paid attention to me.

I always put the same example. I have traveled to South America, and there they perfectly accept euros and dollars, do you know why?

Well, because it is the currency that is used mostly in international trade in the first world.

Do we want Dash to be used in South America by precarious and weak economies or for it to be used in the first world and then spread to the rest?

I have nothing against projects in South America, there are people and projects with potential there, but to sell something popular, you have to promote it where there are large movements of people and capital.

Make Dash go mainstream in countries like the USA, Europe or Japan, and I guarantee that South America will run after dash and not dash after South America.

Absolutely my take on this, but the DCG CxO level persists and it seems most MNOs are still following along. Adoption needs to come more naturally and not through subsidizing. We likely? have something good going there, I respect the work and effort that has been put in it, but it does not (seem to) create the network effect we are after.

Vote accordingly.

I've again provided this feedback to Ryan directly on the Dash Talk discord. I've already done this over a year ago, but it had no effect.

[Pang.]

DCG Head of Marketing
https://blog.dash.org/dcg-head-of-marketing-52fa56619eac

Dash Core Group is officially kicking off the process to select a Head of Marketing.

I honestly think that Ryan is wrong to continue 'focusing' on South America. His stuborness on this strategy is worrying. No matter how well intended it is, it is wrong to put too much focus on a market in an underdeveloped region.

We need someone who is present in the crypto space and promotes the hell out of Dash and I have much doubt that this new head of marketing will be able to do so.

I understand Ryan's reasoning, but he needs to face up to reality and that is that crypto still is a speculative asset and therefore you need to primarily attract speculative investment where it is available!

Honestly, everyone involved in Dash needs to step up and do their part in promoting Dash on all his available channels. Promote Dash on social media (Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook ...). Use your existing accounts or make new ones to talk about or promote Dash. Get active. Add comments about Dash to popular crypto videos, but also on Dash's official videos. Get the number of views and comments up. Add comments about Dash on tweets. Make memes. Whatever. Make noise. It will have much more effect than the 'Venezuela' adoption strategy. Hundreds, thousands of Dash holders spreading the message is far more powerful than what any single 'marketing' person can ever achieve.

It's been more than two years since I said that, and nobody paid attention to me.

I always put the same example. I have traveled to South America, and there they perfectly accept euros and dollars, do you know why?

Well, because it is the currency that is used mostly in international trade in the first world.

Do we want Dash to be used in South America by precarious and weak economies or for it to be used in the first world and then spread to the rest?

I have nothing against projects in South America, there are people and projects with potential there, but to sell something popular, you have to promote it where there are large movements of people and capital.

Make Dash go mainstream in countries like the USA, Europe or Japan, and I guarantee that South America will run after dash and not dash after South America.

Absolutely my take on this, but the DCG CxO level persists and it seems most MNOs are still following along. Adoption needs to come more naturally and not through subsidizing. We likely? have something good going there, I respect the work and effort that has been put in it, but it does not (seem to) create the network effect we are after.

Vote accordingly.

I've again provided this feedback to Ryan directly on the Dash Talk discord. I've already done this over a year ago, but it had no effect.

Give 1000 Dash tomorrow to random wallets in South America, and I guarantee that all Dash holders, as soon as they know how to convert it into dollars, will do it quickly.

They won't even wonder what Dash is, if it's a coin, a reward for being smart, or a McDonald's promotion.

And this I tell you because I know it, and I have seen it.

Not only happens with Dash, the same happens with LTC, BTC ...


Countries with significant needs for essential consumer goods do not think of investing or maintaining a long-term investment when they can convert it into dollars that they need for yesterday.

Masternodes do not vote in a coherent way, after long years of throwing money into a bottomless pit, we can openly say that masternodes vote without thinking or evaluating the project.

I have always said that if there is no good project, it is better to burn the dash in an address without a private key than to deliver it to a bad investment.

Imagine if all the Dash thrown in bad projects had been invested in gold for example on behalf of the holders.

For each Dash to have, for example, 1/20 part of an ounce assigned ... wouldn't this have been better?

My whole life has been dedicated to investment, and venture capital, and I have seen enormous stupidity here when it comes to distributing the budget.

I still remember Ryan spending thousands of dollars to change the Dash logo when a 14-year-old photoshopped it just as well.

Then people like F. Gutierrez who passed through the Dash Core Group with hardly any noise.

Years ago I asked please to hire a global marketing company, and they told me no, it was better to wait for the product to be finished.

While the product is being finished, the price drops from $ 500 to $ 60.

Good product, bad management, that's Dash.

[AzzAz]

DCG Head of Marketing
https://blog.dash.org/dcg-head-of-marketing-52fa56619eac

Dash Core Group is officially kicking off the process to select a Head of Marketing.

I honestly think that Ryan is wrong to continue 'focusing' on South America. His stuborness on this strategy is worrying. No matter how well intended it is, it is wrong to put too much focus on a market in an underdeveloped region.

We need someone who is present in the crypto space and promotes the hell out of Dash and I have much doubt that this new head of marketing will be able to do so.

I understand Ryan's reasoning, but he needs to face up to reality and that is that crypto still is a speculative asset and therefore you need to primarily attract speculative investment where it is available!

Honestly, everyone involved in Dash needs to step up and do their part in promoting Dash on all his available channels. Promote Dash on social media (Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook ...). Use your existing accounts or make new ones to talk about or promote Dash. Get active. Add comments about Dash to popular crypto videos, but also on Dash's official videos. Get the number of views and comments up. Add comments about Dash on tweets. Make memes. Whatever. Make noise. It will have much more effect than the 'Venezuela' adoption strategy. Hundreds, thousands of Dash holders spreading the message is far more powerful than what any single 'marketing' person can ever achieve.

It's been more than two years since I said that, and nobody paid attention to me.

I always put the same example. I have traveled to South America, and there they perfectly accept euros and dollars, do you know why?

Well, because it is the currency that is used mostly in international trade in the first world.

Do we want Dash to be used in South America by precarious and weak economies or for it to be used in the first world and then spread to the rest?

I have nothing against projects in South America, there are people and projects with potential there, but to sell something popular, you have to promote it where there are large movements of people and capital.

Make Dash go mainstream in countries like the USA, Europe or Japan, and I guarantee that South America will run after dash and not dash after South America.

Absolutely my take on this, but the DCG CxO level persists and it seems most MNOs are still following along. Adoption needs to come more naturally and not through subsidizing. We likely? have something good going there, I respect the work and effort that has been put in it, but it does not (seem to) create the network effect we are after.

Vote accordingly.

I've again provided this feedback to Ryan directly on the Dash Talk discord. I've already done this over a year ago, but it had no effect.

Give 1000 Dash tomorrow to random wallets in South America, and I guarantee that all Dash holders, as soon as they know how to convert it into dollars, will do it quickly.

They won't even wonder what Dash is, if it's a coin, a reward for being smart, or a McDonald's promotion.

And this I tell you because I know it, and I have seen it.

Not only happens with Dash, the same happens with LTC, BTC ...


Countries with significant needs for essential consumer goods do not think of investing or maintaining a long-term investment when they can convert it into dollars that they need for yesterday.

Masternodes do not vote in a coherent way, after long years of throwing money into a bottomless pit, we can openly say that masternodes vote without thinking or evaluating the project.

I have always said that if there is no good project, it is better to burn the dash in an address without a private key than to deliver it to a bad investment.

Imagine if all the Dash thrown in bad projects had been invested in gold for example on behalf of the holders.

For each Dash to have, for example, 1/20 part of an ounce assigned ... wouldn't this have been better?

My whole life has been dedicated to investment, and venture capital, and I have seen enormous stupidity here when it comes to distributing the budget.

I still remember Ryan spending thousands of dollars to change the Dash logo when a 14-year-old photoshopped it just as well.

Then people like F. Gutierrez who passed through the Dash Core Group with hardly any noise.

Years ago I asked please to hire a global marketing company, and they told me no, it was better to wait for the product to be finished.

While the product is being finished, the price drops from $ 500 to $ 60.

Good product, bad management, that's Dash.

Amen

[badlogin]

It's sad to see the dash dropped from ~6 to ~30 in coinmarketcap.
Dash marketing is tragic.

If Dash's management knows anything about the ban in Asia (something positive) - this is the best time to share it.

If they are going to wait with everything until the end of work on the product (which is delayed a few years) - it will end badly and no one will use it.

[WastedLTC]

Good product, bad management, that's Dash.

lol - kinda catchy.   It's easy to get frustrated with the value, pace of development, and other coins blowing by Dash with less development, history, or adoption.  

For me,  I'm just waiting for Evolution.   I'm staying the course and we will see if Dash = Decentralized Venmo.   I'm still on the fence if that even matters anymore in the short term but eventually I do feel it will.   A concern I have is will these features just look like any other easy to use centralized app.   Teaching someone that this is a decentralized network might just get a 'meh'.   So what's next?   Built out Evolution and then what?   People register their names, setup wallets, and then ask-- "How do I buy bitcoin?"    When we swipe a credit card, we don't care about the shop's identifier..  we swipe (or scan, or whatever) and approve the amount.

I want to know what is next-- where does the true value of Evo live and do we even know that yet.   Does it become our online identify?    Do we add the ability to transact other coins?   If we make it stupid easy to onboard someone to an island without anything next, could be disappointing.

Took my awhile to convince couple people to accept BTC as tips for their services back in 2013 but some did agree to it.   Checked back with them later as BTC ballooned and they told me they sold it long ago...    If we are building Dash to become a payment network,  does that mean the only holders will be MN operators?  

Many open questions..   so in the wait and see mode.  Get Evo out there and start building products on top.  

[badlogin]

For me,  I'm just waiting for Evolution.  

Well we are waiting few years - how long it can takes? How many delays?

[WastedLTC]

Well we are waiting few years - how long it can takes? How many delays?

This year it seems like DCG has done better with expectations and delivery.    Based on the timeline, we are months away.

I signed up for the Alpha testing...   

[Nthelight]

DCG Head of Marketing
https://blog.dash.org/dcg-head-of-marketing-52fa56619eac

Dash Core Group is officially kicking off the process to select a Head of Marketing.

I honestly think that Ryan is wrong to continue 'focusing' on South America. His stuborness on this strategy is worrying. No matter how well intended it is, it is wrong to put too much focus on a market in an underdeveloped region.

We need someone who is present in the crypto space and promotes the hell out of Dash and I have much doubt that this new head of marketing will be able to do so.

I understand Ryan's reasoning, but he needs to face up to reality and that is that crypto still is a speculative asset and therefore you need to primarily attract speculative investment where it is available!

Honestly, everyone involved in Dash needs to step up and do their part in promoting Dash on all his available channels. Promote Dash on social media (Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, Facebook ...). Use your existing accounts or make new ones to talk about or promote Dash. Get active. Add comments about Dash to popular crypto videos, but also on Dash's official videos. Get the number of views and comments up. Add comments about Dash on tweets. Make memes. Whatever. Make noise. It will have much more effect than the 'Venezuela' adoption strategy. Hundreds, thousands of Dash holders spreading the message is far more powerful than what any single 'marketing' person can ever achieve.

It's been more than two years since I said that, and nobody paid attention to me.

I always put the same example. I have traveled to South America, and there they perfectly accept euros and dollars, do you know why?

Well, because it is the currency that is used mostly in international trade in the first world.

Do we want Dash to be used in South America by precarious and weak economies or for it to be used in the first world and then spread to the rest?

I have nothing against projects in South America, there are people and projects with potential there, but to sell something popular, you have to promote it where there are large movements of people and capital.

Make Dash go mainstream in countries like the USA, Europe or Japan, and I guarantee that South America will run after dash and not dash after South America.

Absolutely my take on this, but the DCG CxO level persists and it seems most MNOs are still following along. Adoption needs to come more naturally and not through subsidizing. We likely? have something good going there, I respect the work and effort that has been put in it, but it does not (seem to) create the network effect we are after.

Vote accordingly.

I've again provided this feedback to Ryan directly on the Dash Talk discord. I've already done this over a year ago, but it had no effect.

Give 1000 Dash tomorrow to random wallets in South America, and I guarantee that all Dash holders, as soon as they know how to convert it into dollars, will do it quickly.

They won't even wonder what Dash is, if it's a coin, a reward for being smart, or a McDonald's promotion.

And this I tell you because I know it, and I have seen it.

Not only happens with Dash, the same happens with LTC, BTC ...

Countries with significant needs for essential consumer goods do not think of investing or maintaining a long-term investment when they can convert it into dollars that they need for yesterday.

This would not surprise me at all.

Masternodes do not vote in a coherent way, after long years of throwing money into a bottomless pit, we can openly say that masternodes vote without thinking or evaluating the project.

I have always said that if there is no good project, it is better to burn the dash in an address without a private key than to deliver it to a bad investment.

Therefore I vote No on everything that it is not DCG or development related. Unfortunately the DCG package is always "everything or nothing".
I support Dash Watch too as otherwise there would be zero control over the grants, but it would be better to simply not vote for these projects that promise adoption, et cetera. I asked DCG and the Dash community to take on a LEAN & MEAN approach about a year ago and I'm not sure if the message got through in any way.

Imagine if all the Dash thrown in bad projects had been invested in gold for example on behalf of the holders.

For each Dash to have, for example, 1/20 part of an ounce assigned ... wouldn't this have been better?

Perhaps yes, but we should not need this. I simply see most of those projects as waste or low/no return. The quintessential problem is that too many masternodes look or looked at the treasury money as 'free money' that must be spent and that is not correct.

My whole life has been dedicated to investment, and venture capital, and I have seen enormous stupidity here when it comes to distributing the budget.

I still remember Ryan spending thousands of dollars to change the Dash logo when a 14-year-old photoshopped it just as well.

Then people like F. Gutierrez who passed through the Dash Core Group with hardly any noise.

Years ago I asked please to hire a global marketing company, and they told me no, it was better to wait for the product to be finished.

While the product is being finished, the price drops from $ 500 to $ 60.

Good product, bad management, that's Dash.

I see these problems also.

Don't get me started on Fernando, I asked for his resignation more than a year ago. Some people were upset, because they take this as a personal attack. It's not, it's nothing personal at all. It's about seeing that someone is not a good fit for the job and with Fernando it was very obvious. Of course his support is very welcome, but you cannot be in the CMO position imo.

Dash has truly great development (referring to layer two in the model I posted here), but the highest abstraction layer has issues. It's possible that the base economics layer (high MN service rewards) also creates a problem (as previously discussed here). It is hard to deny that these problems are not somehow related to the non technical CxO level. It was acceptable when Dash was a small project, but to go from $1B market cap to $10B is going to require a stronger CxO level (strategies, promotion, et cetera) and a smarter more conservative MNO network. Things have improved though, I can see that DCG has taken some of the feedback into account and provides better communication towards the community. The level of treasury scamming or exploitation has also drastically reduced. I just don't know if it's going to be enough.

It is a challenging position to be in, with many people having high expectations. I understand that, but this should not be an excuse.

[Pang.]

Well we are waiting few years - how long it can takes? How many delays?

This year it seems like DCG has done better with expectations and delivery.    Based on the timeline, we are months away.

I signed up for the Alpha testing...   

As an investor, I am suspicious. As a Dash user, I am confident.

Months ago I said that I would not invest a penny more here, I have enough risk in this project, but I distrust the Dash Core as managers.

Let's remember that after Duffiel left, he gave us a Ryan that was supported by the master nodes.

What would the master nodes do tomorrow if, for example, Elon Musk presented a project to take the Dash Core and take charge of its future evolution?

Would they keep saying that Taylos is the best we can have?

I have nothing against Taylor, but he has had enough time and funds to direct this ship to a larger port, however he has done the simplest thing, let himself be carried away by the wind and not try to bring great innovations that make us different.

This should be like democracies ... after serving two terms maximum, a new team with new ideas and new opportunities.

My vote is worth little, but the one with 5000 nodes could demand what this project deserves.

Those who follow me know that I have said hundreds of times that Dash will die if its price drops, for the simple reason that everything is supported by budget (developers, marketing ...)

When many say that price is unimportant, they don't really understand that Dash, apart from a good product, is a business. It is useless for us to have the formula for Coca Cola, if we do not have bottles to store it, trucks to distribute it, stores and people who drink it.

Here we have almost everything, but consumers do not want Dash Cola because they do not know it yet, give Dash Cola Try, and show what it is capable of.

In my career I have seen so many good projects die for not making themselves known, that it saddens me to see how something potentially good ends up being ousted by something worse.

Life goes on, and for the moment it is not too late, Evolution could be the trigger, but not only that, more things are needed.

Each Dash holder must be the holder of something more than a coin, we are almost in 2021, and that requires reinventing itself if it is to reach the Olympus.

[Nthelight]

Good product, bad management, that's Dash.

lol - kinda catchy.   It's easy to get frustrated with the value, pace of development, and other coins blowing by Dash with less development, history, or adoption.  

For me,  I'm just waiting for Evolution.   I'm staying the course and we will see if Dash = Decentralized Venmo.   I'm still on the fence if that even matters anymore in the short term but eventually I do feel it will.   A concern I have is will these features just look like any other easy to use centralized app.   Teaching someone that this is a decentralized network might just get a 'meh'.   So what's next?   Built out Evolution and then what?   People register their names, setup wallets, and then ask-- "How do I buy bitcoin?"    When we swipe a credit card, we don't care about the shop's identifier..  we swipe (or scan, or whatever) and approve the amount.

I want to know what is next-- where does the true value of Evo live and do we even know that yet.   Does it become our online identify?    Do we add the ability to transact other coins?   If we make it stupid easy to onboard someone to an island without anything next, could be disappointing.

Took my awhile to convince couple people to accept BTC as tips for their services back in 2013 but some did agree to it.   Checked back with them later as BTC ballooned and they told me they sold it long ago...    If we are building Dash to become a payment network,  does that mean the only holders will be MN operators?  

Many open questions..   so in the wait and see mode.  Get Evo out there and start building products on top.  

Everything I've seen so far about DashPay looks very promising and indeed you can already test it out via the DashPay Alpha program. The developers have managed to create something truly innovative and unique in the crypto space. If the MVP works well and is secure then it's going to please many people.

When DashPay MVP is on mainnet, the push needs to be done to make Dash rise again in the rankings and make it more popular again, so more 3rd party services adopt Dash. The wider the ecosystem gets, the more usage we can see and hopefully we get some network effect going.

It is true that many people have been waiting for Evolution for a long time and hence may have disregarded Dash. It will depend on all of us to spread the word about DashPay and build on that. We are very close, afaik.

In POS transactions it doesn't matter of course to pay directly to a 'social contact', but for transactions between your friends/family/regulars it's going to be a major improvement in terms of ease of use.

Onboarding newbies should be a lot easier. The wallet simply looks great compared to what we've been used to. It is a major step forwards.

When it comes to Dash Platform, the opportunities it creates are very extensive and various projects have already been conceptualized. Building on the Dash network is going to be so much easier. I can see it spawn various products which will improve our ecosystem and will increase usage. It's possible that people are highly underestimating what the true potential is of Dash Platform.

[afbitcoins]

Shared masternodes might lock up a bit more of the supply in collatoral or 'staked' dash. But that won't address the problem of store of value any more than Ryan Taylors idea of enticing more masternodes with more portion of the supply

[WastedLTC]

Would they keep saying that Taylos is the best we can have?

I don't feel he is the best for the job but I wouldn't pull the rug out from under him months before launch.   I evaluate Evo,  next steps, and go from there.   Having Evo out will be something that Ryan can build on but it might require a new skillset to move Dash forward from there.  

Not sure why it urks me so much, but how Evan left, the whole Dash Labs, ... the entire thing just felt like an exit scam.   Not saying it was, just continues to feel that way.   Dash could have fallen apart and it wouldn't have surprised me.   I give DCG some credit for getting us here and things look promising...   but man..   Evan.    His vision is what got most of us hooked on Dash but the heavy lifting came after that.   Just don't feel the same way about Ryan.    Waiting to see that spark in the project again.

[birdonthewire]

I've again provided this feedback to Ryan directly on the Dash Talk discord. I've already done this over a year ago, but it had no effect.

Ah ... well if you've given "Ryan" feedback directly ... between that and the ERC20 memes of fifth row teens ... top 5 in 3 days.

DASH was a world-class crypto-MONETARY project that has fallen into the hands of nobody and has been reinterpreted as any shitcoin and devoid of all that solidity and rigor. A few weeks ago in an interview, one who introduces himself as a "representative of a good number of Mnodes" boasted that "The Mnodes are like the Fed." Pathetic. Here, every day one arrives and releases the occurrence of it ... and so, they go years. That only reveals the project's total lack of direction.

The feedback that Mr. Rtaylor has to receive is the ideal one to feel like a reference employee, but an employee, of DASH. That person has not shown any contribution of value to DASH ... and he continues to be treated like a child who plays with his monopoly, it is absolutely amazing. On the contrary, the succession of breaches, excuses, meaningless work, or half done, which clearly indicate both incapacity and laziness and lack of demand, are, objectively, his business card.

But what can be expected of a group without any ethics or personal reference? Any visible head in DASH is more irrelevant than the last, if not embarrassingly ignorant and mediocre. The video uploaded a couple of days ago here of Contreras from Venezuela and Rodrigo from Brazil with the same nonsense of inflationary anecdotes of shopkeepers who give you a signed paper as a purchase voucher or bundles of gimmicky bills, while praising the "large figures of real adoption "is simply unworthy of being featured, with contributing a video from three years ago, it's the same. But everything remains the same, decadently the same ... lack of talent, movement out of sheer inertia and laziness. And the Mnode network, getting on the case of integral parasitism, robbing a community that does not exist ... and stealing a wealth that no longer exists, will rob even the walls. Even their leader Rtaylor has to convince them that spending the budget is not "spending free money" ... because both he and they believe that the Treasury money BELONGS TO THEM. And that is management. its legitimate role - in the face of appropriation - its self-imposed meddling -. And the delusion is such that the project must be clarified even at that conceptual level, which even a child would understand.

This won't be fixed from the inside, but with a developer doing a fork, it could be done perfectly. I'm still waiting for someone who is committed and technically gifted for that. With a professional on those terms and a price, I am ready for a MODULAR approach without changing anything in DASH that would instantly grow and lead by example. If someone is, or knows how to achieve it, I would greatly appreciate it to be able to get down to work and end all these tons of empty talk and the "I saw it first" that everyone here defends, because the lack of leadership and The course is such that everyone thinks they can fix this because everyone is the smartest.

With just a suitable dev, I bet my balls to stop talking and put an option on the table, because this is the never-ending story. Of course: An INTERACTIVE, HUG OR DISPOSABLE option, which only seeks to optimize DASH, ignoring the particular benefit of anyone. And the hierarchy that hijacks the project, let it follow what it wants with the bitten bone that does not release and its spiral of destruction and decay. With working without interference, enough.