Sportsbet.io's English Premier League Football Pool Discussion Thread

[hilariousetc]

In my opinion dropping your star player isn't necessarily good management. Obviously, he'll get the praise because he has the balls to do it. However, good management would be changing Ronaldo's attitude. Ferguson knew the type of player Ronaldo was, and he has always had a attitude issue, or perhaps some would say arrogant? That's not exactly a criticism, since most players at that level believe in themselves quite a lot it does come across as arrogant.

I'd like to think it's a current tactical change due to him obviously negatively effecting the team. However, United have improved, but they still aren't a team that will be challenging for anything soon. The problem is more than Ronaldo.

I agree. We don't know the whole situation so it's hard to say what is right and wrong, but it's often that ego and arrogance that drives a lot of top level athletes and even musicians to get to that elite level in the first place. If you didn't have so much self-belief you probably wouldn't get very far. There's a line from Drake that says  I am the greatest and I said that even before I knew I was but I think he was quoting Muhammed Ali. There's of lots of stuff from Kanye West before he was famous that's ridiculously egotistical but it's their own self-belief and arrogance that is their fuel to get where they want to be. Obviously Ronaldo has a massive ego and probably throws a tantrum when he doesn't get his own way and that's hard to handle for a manager. You need to learn to babysit them because you can't just let them walk all over you or backseat manage, but you also can't give into their every whim. If a player is disrespecting the team or manager and not playing by the rules you have to bench them sometimes to show them who's boss.

I agree with Hilarious, it's just pretty much absurd for not letting him leave when he had the opportunity to leave, and that's all just so he could rot away on the bench, It would have made sense if they're actually doing very better without Ronaldo, then I'd understand the reason for not starting him, ETH saying he didn't want to bring him into the game that has been lost but brought in Casemiro and most disrepectfully to also play Martial who have been out injured for the past 5 weeks ahead of Ronaldo, it's just doesn't make much sense imo!

I don't think it would have come down to not letting him leave but time just run out on getting a deal done. Probably both the club and Ronaldo wanted him to go but their options were limited. Ronaldo would only go to a top tier club that is in the CL and there's not many clubs that can even afford him, and even the super-big clubs have probably already blown their budget on other players so can't buy him even if they wanted to. Also, Ronaldo isn't going to leave for less money and United aren't going to let him go at a bargain price so it's a catch-22. I'm sure they were trying to get rid of him right up to transfer deadline day and by the looks of it with Ronaldo not turning up for pre-season stuff he probably thought he was likely to go as well but deals probably just fell through for whatever reason. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't leave in the next window, though maybe there's still not many options as to who can afford him.  

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[cryptofrka]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

[swogerino]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

I think Manchester United cannot afford to play without him despite many thinking he is a toxic person now for Manchester United,we saw the other players and although they are much younger they could not help Manchester United in a key game against Manchester City.For the upcoming part of the season at least until January they should focus more to bring him to play if Man United fans and their coach want to see United up the ladder otherwise without him at the front of attacking I see this as very difficult to happen.

[KTChampions]

It's time for Ten Hagu to worry not about Ronaldo, but about himself - with such results, he will be thrown out of the club very quickly. I don't think he was taken to the club with the condition that United could hang around in the 6th-7th place and get humiliating defeats from time to time (a complete repetition of last season). A few (largely accidental) victories seem to have given Ten Hag the audacity to continue to ignore Ronaldo - the problem is that United still play badly. The tension from the fans is already high, if the management is also unhappy, then soon Ten Hag will have to pack his things.

But Ronaldo actually has become a liability tactically.  Ten Hag has to change how the squad plays when Ronaldo is up there spear heading the attack because he doesn't do much when they don't have the ball.  It ends with a couple of guys being forced to be out if position to make up for it.

United just needs to rebuild from scratch.  Something they should've done after Ferguson left almost 10 years ago.  Damn..  It's been almost a decade now.  Lol.  Maybe they're due for a resurgence in a couple of years.

Ok, I can believe that the highest scoring striker ever and United's best player last season has become a liability this season, no problem. And let's say Ten Hag is right about not giving Ronaldo any playing time. The problem is that United still play like crap. Do you understand it? Ronaldo is sitting on the bench and United are playing like shit - who's to blame? Ronaldo (because he doesn't put much pressure and doesn't do much teamwork on the bench) or Ten Hag who ends up with a pretty expensive squad and ends up with a shitty result? 

[hilariousetc]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

Yeah, well if that's actually the case then you have to show him who's boss, but he probably shouldn't even be on the bench and send him to the stands instead, especially if you don't have any intent to play him. It's a shame because everyone wants to see him play. You would think Ronnie knows the score by now though, but I'm sure we don't know the whole details and the excuses Hag was giving was just the 'political' answer. I wonder where he's going to go? Probably not many options for him right now and if he gets a rep for being stubborn or crying when he doesn't get his own way a lot of teams probably won't erven bother with him.

I read recently that if both Portugal and Argentina finish first in their World Cup groups then they could both meet in the final. Now that's something I'd love to see. Would definitely help settle the GOAT debate.

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

I think Manchester United cannot afford to play without him despite many thinking he is a toxic person now for Manchester United,we saw the other players and although they are much younger they could not help Manchester United in a key game against Manchester City.For the upcoming part of the season at least until January they should focus more to bring him to play if Man United fans and their coach want to see United up the ladder otherwise without him at the front of attacking I see this as very difficult to happen.

Definitely a catch-22 for Man U as they can't afford to be benching him really. Hopefully he just learns now that he's not above being benched.

[Joca97]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

Well Ronaldo is still one of the biggest players of all time and they got a lot of money from marketing and everything when they signed him. Coaches need to learn to use him he is a goal machine and wants to win always. He can be a diva but people need to take advatange of his goalscoring abilities.

[Harkorede]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

Well Ronaldo is still one of the biggest players of all time and they got a lot of money from marketing and everything when they signed him. Coaches need to learn to use him he is a goal machine and wants to win always. He can be a diva but people need to take advatange of his goalscoring abilities.

I literally like how cryptofrka called it, it was a mistake to bring and to keep him.

I like the fact that Ten Haag have the balls to bench Ronaldo, yes! If he doesn't bring what the coach actually needs from him, I'm of the opinion that Ten Haag probably doesn't want just a goal poacher, hence the reason of preferring Rashford who seems to have more to offer than to just score goals, but the only point I want to make is that, it's rather becoming disrepectful that he isn't getting any minutes whatsoever, and everybody agrees that Ronaldo isn't who he used to be and he himself needs to acknowleged that fact and role too, but I'm still of the opinion that Ronaldo's still not yet that bad to not be afforded some 15-20 minutes in a game.

[Welsh]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

While I do agree it was a strange purchase, and probably not the right one. He isn't exactly perfomring below par for a United player. Despite United being absolutely awful for much of the season, Ronaldo was up there with the top goal scorers of the season who were in very good teams.

Ronaldo is a special player, no doubt about that, and he's no where near finished at the top level. I think it's just a attitude issue with him, which you have to have the correct manager to manage that. Fergusson had to deal with it, like I mentioned before.

[Trofo]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

While I do agree it was a strange purchase, and probably not the right one. He isn't exactly perfomring below par for a United player. Despite United being absolutely awful for much of the season, Ronaldo was up there with the top goal scorers of the season who were in very good teams.

Ronaldo is a special player, no doubt about that, and he's no where near finished at the top level. I think it's just a attitude issue with him, which you have to have the correct manager to manage that. Fergusson had to deal with it, like I mentioned before.

Ronaldo gives you goals and unbelievable media presence but he comes with enormous ego and he doesn't play defense except in super important games like CL final.

I would never bring him in settled club, simply too risky, but if you need some guaranteed goals and have no other big stars in your team than he becomes perfect fit. Millions of new followers on social networks plus all the shirts sold must mean a lot to some clubs. Problem is Ronaldo still wants to play on the very top level and those clubs aren't that interested in him as we have seen in last transfer window.

[swogerino]

Ronaldo failed to show respect multiple times to his coaching staff and his teammates. He's become a toxic diva, one who's also playing below the level of a Man United striker.

It was a mistake to bring him, it is a mistake to keep him. The biggest mistake of them all would be to play him and fair play to Ten Hag for having the balls not to.

Well Ronaldo is still one of the biggest players of all time and they got a lot of money from marketing and everything when they signed him. Coaches need to learn to use him he is a goal machine and wants to win always. He can be a diva but people need to take advatange of his goalscoring abilities.

Exactly this.In most games against weaker teams he can be the man of the match as can save Manchester United a lot with his goal scoring ability.I don't like these coaches who think they know everything and they start by putting their authority against star players like Ronaldo despite what behavior this player is showing.If the manager continues without making him play I am pretty confident we will see a really bad Manchester United in the upcoming games with lots of unexpected results.

[cryptofrka]

The initial idea to bring him had a lot more to do with the economic side of the business than with a footballing one. From an economic side it all makes perfect sense - the long awaited return of one of the best players in the history of the game to the club that made him a star.

He'll score goals. The problem is that progressive teams cannot afford to start with a player that does not press, does not track back and does not listen to tactical instructions. United with him in the team cannot challenge for trophies, even if he scores 50 goals - because they will suffer in all other parts of the pitch.

He's still a goal threat but should probably accept that he can be an impact sub on a high level or a starting option for a club of a lower level. He still wants to be the main man for the CL finalists - and that simply doesn't work anymore.

[KTChampions]

Ronaldo gives you goals and unbelievable media presence but he comes with enormous ego and he doesn't play defense except in super important games like CL final.

I would never bring him in settled club, simply too risky, but if you need some guaranteed goals and have no other big stars in your team than he becomes perfect fit. Millions of new followers on social networks plus all the shirts sold must mean a lot to some clubs. Problem is Ronaldo still wants to play on the very top level and those clubs aren't that interested in him as we have seen in last transfer window.

He has a normal ego in my opinion. His ego is backed by achievements. In general, I think it will soon be possible to forget about this template, since Mbappe will take the discussion about the ego to a new level, in my opinion, in terms of the ratio of achievements/ego, he has bypassed everyone for a long time 
As for the criticism that Ronaldo does not defend, I also propose to leave this old discussion and come up with something new - for example, criticize him for being ... bad at the gate! How many saves has Ronaldo made in recent years? I think even looking back at his play while corners, his average is much worse than any other goalkeeper. How bad is he! 

[Trofo]

Ronaldo gives you goals and unbelievable media presence but he comes with enormous ego and he doesn't play defense except in super important games like CL final.

I would never bring him in settled club, simply too risky, but if you need some guaranteed goals and have no other big stars in your team than he becomes perfect fit. Millions of new followers on social networks plus all the shirts sold must mean a lot to some clubs. Problem is Ronaldo still wants to play on the very top level and those clubs aren't that interested in him as we have seen in last transfer window.

He has a normal ego in my opinion. His ego is backed by achievements. In general, I think it will soon be possible to forget about this template, since Mbappe will take the discussion about the ego to a new level, in my opinion, in terms of the ratio of achievements/ego, he has bypassed everyone for a long time 
As for the criticism that Ronaldo does not defend, I also propose to leave this old discussion and come up with something new - for example, criticize him for being ... bad at the gate! How many saves has Ronaldo made in recent years? I think even looking back at his play while corners, his average is much worse than any other goalkeeper. How bad is he! 

Mbappe is spoiled and I agree his ego is even bigger problem, especially since he just started his career.

You are overdoing it a bit regarding Ronaldo. Of course he is not a defender, but best teams in the world now play pressing almost whole game. Ronaldo isn't doing that, he spreads his hands and pouts in the corner if team mate screwed the attack while rest of the team is trying to get the ball back.

It is not so important in most games but on highest level it shows and that is why I think Ronaldo should accept that just maybe he isn't the player for highest level any more.  Very best teams simply doesn't want to risk it with Ronaldo and I understand them.

[KTChampions]

He has a normal ego in my opinion. His ego is backed by achievements. In general, I think it will soon be possible to forget about this template, since Mbappe will take the discussion about the ego to a new level, in my opinion, in terms of the ratio of achievements/ego, he has bypassed everyone for a long time 
As for the criticism that Ronaldo does not defend, I also propose to leave this old discussion and come up with something new - for example, criticize him for being ... bad at the gate! How many saves has Ronaldo made in recent years? I think even looking back at his play while corners, his average is much worse than any other goalkeeper. How bad is he! 

Mbappe is spoiled and I agree his ego is even bigger problem, especially since he just started his career.

You are overdoing it a bit regarding Ronaldo. Of course he is not a defender, but best teams in the world now play pressing almost whole game. Ronaldo isn't doing that, he spreads his hands and pouts in the corner if team mate screwed the attack while rest of the team is trying to get the ball back.

It is not so important in most games but on highest level it shows and that is why I think Ronaldo should accept that just maybe he isn't the player for highest level any more.  Very best teams simply doesn't want to risk it with Ronaldo and I understand them.

It seems to me that those who criticize Ronaldo are overdoing it. I agree that he is old and that his prime is behind, there is no question. The problem is that if you listen to Ronaldo's critics, you can come to the conclusion that he is to blame for everything in general and he also killed Kennedy 

As for pressing, this is a question of the game model. If you are Barcelona (days of Xavi and Iniesta) or City (without a prominent centre-forward like last season), then yes, all players should run after the ball when it is lost.
But if you have a different model, then even an attacker standing in the center circle when his team defends pulls at least one defender (in the case of Ronaldo, rather 1.5-2). Even without doing anything, such an attacker is beneficial (and, by the way, retains strength in order to accelerate at decisive moments).

As I said, the fact that Ronaldo is not the same as he used to be is not a question at all. But as they say, everything is relative. So... who from United is consistently good in attack and who can be counted on as a consistent goalscorer? Oops... for all his cons and problems, Ronaldo is still better than the rest.
And this means that if Ten Hag has such a tool but does not know how to use it, then this tool is not bad, but Ten Hag is a shitty coach.

[Welsh]

I would never bring him in settled club, simply too risky, but if you need some guaranteed goals and have no other big stars in your team than he becomes perfect fit. Millions of new followers on social networks plus all the shirts sold must mean a lot to some clubs. Problem is Ronaldo still wants to play on the very top level and those clubs aren't that interested in him as we have seen in last transfer window.

Man United wasn't exactly settled at the time. Although, I believe their hand was kind of forced. Wasn't Ronaldo being linked to Man City? I don't know how much merit there was to those stories, but it seemed to be getting coverage everywhere including the main football news outlets. I didn't pay much attention beyond that, and certainly didn't verify its integrity.

However, if that was the case they couldn't exactly stand by, and let one of their legends move to a rival club. I don't think they particularly wanted to make that move. He does obviously bring in a decent amount of revenue, and there was definitely a lot of fans buying his shirt when he returned.

So, while Ronaldo may have not been planned, and the right person to sign, I don't think it's all negative from an investment point of view. I think we have to remember that United were god awful before he returned.

[cryptofrka]

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Wasn't Ronaldo being linked to Man City?
...

Yep, but it was probably a smart move from his agents. It would be impossible to imagine Ronaldo in Guardiola's system - and he's too powerful there to be told 'take Ronaldo and make it work' - which United did to Solskjaer/later requested from Rangnick.

United are awful for exactly that reason - they bring players with marketing value, not players that will improve them on the pitch.

[Welsh]

Yep, but it was probably a smart move from his agents. It would be impossible to imagine Ronaldo in Guardiola's system - and he's too powerful there to be told 'take Ronaldo and make it work' - which United did to Solskjaer/later requested from Rangnick.

United are awful for exactly that reason - they bring players with marketing value, not players that will improve them on the pitch.

Who knows Man City may have wanted United to make the move, knowing it wouldn't be a good one, and knew they'd have to step in. I just can't imagine Ronaldo in a Pep team. I just doesn't look like it would fit.

Ronaldo still has the quality, but with his age increasing, and therefore the miles on his legs starting to show, he might need to reconsider his approach to other players. He might need to be a little more accommodating towards the tail end of his career. No doubt though, he's one of the best players to ever play, and was a joy to watch despite being a Liverpool fan myself.

Anyway, I'm just getting my predictions in. I'm assuming most here are going for a Arsenal win over Liverpool, given their current forms?

[swogerino]

Anyway, I'm just getting my predictions in. I'm assuming most here are going for a Arsenal win over Liverpool, given their current forms?

I think this is clear based on their recent form winning both in Premier League and in Europa League and doing so at ease even against difficult opponents like Tottenham is in the Premier League so mostly I think they should win against Liverpool despite me preferring a Liverpool win.

Liverpool on the other hand has come back or at least restored some confidence after winning in the Champions League easily against Rangers which is not that bad of a team,so both teams are coming from wins and the most logical result here should be a draw.

[tokeweed]

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Wasn't Ronaldo being linked to Man City?
...

Yep, but it was probably a smart move from his agents. It would be impossible to imagine Ronaldo in Guardiola's system - and he's too powerful there to be told 'take Ronaldo and make it work' - which United did to Solskjaer/later requested from Rangnick.

United are awful for exactly that reason - they bring players with marketing value, not players that will improve them on the pitch.

^  This and it has been going on for a while now.  It's not totally about the quality of football anymore, the dubbed 'United way', whatever that really means but the supporters expect it from their club.  It's all about United the brand now and with complete disregard of the 'style' of how they should play.

But why not, play Ronaldo the way Real played him under Mourinho.  Starts at left wing and given free reign to move around and drift to the middle at the attacking third where he's a real threat.  Mou still made it work defensively imho.

And what do you guys think of Chelsea clean sheet at 1.89?

[Igebotz]

Who knows Man City may have wanted United to make the move, knowing it wouldn't be a good one, and knew they'd have to step in. I just can't imagine Ronaldo in a Pep team. I just doesn't look like it would fit.

It wouldn't have been bad the way things are now with him at Manchester United, the Pep side were desperate to replace Aguero with another proven puncher and Ronanldo was the only available option at the time, Pep wanted to use him for the short term while he monitored the contract situations of Lukaku and Halaand. Ronaldo's only job, I believe, with the service from Manchester City's midfield and wings, would be to sit at the front and bury those passes inside the net. I believe that move would have been a better option for both parties.

@cryptofrka nice comment, I almost miss this nice discussion 

Ronaldo still has the quality, but with his age increasing, and therefore the miles on his legs starting to show, he might need to reconsider his approach to other players. He might need to be a little more accommodating towards the tail end of his career. No doubt though, he's one of the best players to ever play, and was a joy to watch despite being a Liverpool fan myself.

That is one of the disadvantages of being a pouncher; not every manager wants such a player when they are 32+ years old, especially with how fast and young defenders are these days. I believe Diago Costa experienced the same thing when age caught up with him; he was no longer as valuable as he was in his prime because all he does is score, and he doesn't help much in ball recovery. This is why Messi can fit into any team; he is the best utility player I've ever seen; if you want him in the midfield, he provides assists and open goal chances; if you want him on the wing or up front, he provides goals and high-level teamwork.

Anyway, I'm just getting my predictions in. I'm assuming most here are going for a Arsenal win over Liverpool, given their current forms?

Any injury concern for Liverpool? I would stick to BTTS or sit this one out.

And what do you guys think of Chelsea clean sheet at 1.89?

Wolves won't go blank against us at least that's the only outcome I'm sure of now.