[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[wh00per]

By the way, "120V" power is usually actually either 115V or 110V. 120V refers to the ratings for the plugs and cables and whatnot, which is the voltage not to be exceeded.

120V power is what it is .. http://helium.powerprice.info/meter/ << that's my "mains" at home.  I totally agree with the rest of your message.

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[mrpark]

By the way, "120V" power is usually actually either 115V or 110V. 120V refers to the ratings for the plugs and cables and whatnot, which is the voltage not to be exceeded.

120V power is what it is .. http://helium.powerprice.info/meter/ << that's my "mains" at home.  I totally agree with the rest of your message.

yes, I use 120V for calculations, that comes out to 1800W which is the very MAX on a 20amp, I believe this is why you only see them making 1600W-1700W power supplies for 110V-115V systems.

[wh00per]

http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/electrical-faq/difference-voltages-110-220.html

I was trying to find a nice article about these voltages Hope it's clear enough.

[jtoomim]

120V power is what it is .. http://helium.powerprice.info/meter/ << that's my "mains" at home.  I totally agree with the rest of your message.

Fair enough.

I still recommend that people with nominal 120V systems use 110V for their load calculations until they've actually measured their supply voltage. Once you've measured it with no load, you should subtract about 1 or 2 volts for potential load-induced voltage drops. All this doesn't make a big difference, but when you're talking about trying to get, say, 12 amps on a 15 amp (12 amp continuous) circuit, even 5% matters.

Also keep in mind that the voltage at the service entrance (which is probably where your meter is) will be higher than the voltage at the miner, especially if your house or PDU has thin and/or long cables. Voltage at the miner is what matters.

[bobsmoke]

If your GB stated $290 it should be $290 and nothing more regardless of power consumption. Those were the terms the customer agreed to.

People paid for the SP30 only. The hosting was a bonus offered to anyone that wanted. It wasn't enforced or anything and I am sure that it's based on the power consumption. The good thing is that I don't think that it will vary a lot because we can't push the PSUs a lot more than 2700W.

Also, Spondoolies emailed customers about a month ago asking for a commitment to either hosting or free shipping. If you didn't opt for hosting back then, it may be too late to get those prices. The fact that bobsmoke is asking now what the price is suggests to me that he didn't purchase it then, which is why I listed the rates Spondoolies is currently advertising.

The crippled Rockerbox ASICs might pull less than 2700W per SP30, in which case customers might get a rebate from their hosting provider. Or they might not. Depends on the DC's policy, I guess.

thanks!  btw do you know why Spoodoolies says there is no customs fee when shipping the SPxx from Israel to US? how do they import the machines into US?

[mrpark]

120V power is what it is .. http://helium.powerprice.info/meter/ << that's my "mains" at home.  I totally agree with the rest of your message.

Fair enough.

I still recommend that people with nominal 120V systems use 110V for their load calculations until they've actually measured their supply voltage. Once you've measured it with no load, you should subtract about 1 or 2 volts for potential load-induced voltage drops. All this doesn't make a big difference, but when you're talking about trying to get, say, 12 amps on a 15 amp (12 amp continuous) circuit, even 5% matters.

Also keep in mind that the voltage at the service entrance (which is probably where your meter is) will be higher than the voltage at the miner, especially if your house or PDU has thin and/or long cables. Voltage at the miner is what matters.

Ok, so then the calculation is max 1650W at 110v, allow a little bit more at 115V so a 1700W power supply is fine on a 20amp circuits. this calculation is only using 75% because under continuous load, it is not the circuit breaker instantly tripping you need to worry about, it is the heat across the wire which cause the circuit breaker to get warm and begin a slow thermal meltdown of the breaker. You would never want to use 100% of a 1650-1700W power supply simply because it operates less efficiently at that range. If the wire or breaker is very warm, you are pushing it too much. That is the unscientific way.

In any event, 1200W will not max out a 110V @20amp breaker.

[noodle73]

Let's just wait for the updated specs. I'd far rather give them time to work this through than have a rushed response that then needs to be corrected again. It's new tech, unexpected issues should come as no surprise. They're not late and they're working hard for us. It's a pleasant change to at least be kept informed so give them a chance.

[xstr8guy]

thanks!  btw do you know why Spoodoolies says there is no customs fee when shipping the SPxx from Israel to US? how do they import the machines into US?

US residents simply don't pay custom's fees or VAT for anything. There my be some exceptions but I've had stuff delivered from all over the world and have never had to pay.

[philipma1957]

thanks!  btw do you know why Spoodoolies says there is no customs fee when shipping the SPxx from Israel to US? how do they import the machines into US?

US residents simply don't pay custom's fees or VAT for anything. There my be some exceptions but I've had stuff delivered from all over the world and have never had to pay.

it is over 2500  you may be paperworked (ie give up your ssn or no delivery)

[wh00per]

Let's just wait for the updated specs. I'd far rather give them time to work this through than have a rushed response that then needs to be corrected again. It's new tech, unexpected issues should come as no surprise. They're not late and they're working hard for us. It's a pleasant change to at least be kept informed so give them a chance.

If I understand it corectly, the specs which change are related to the hashrate. The power supplies would be the ones they told us about already (Murata or Emerson), so at the wall the units will have the same consumption. Good to plan and verify the electrical circuits you plan to install those babies. When they come, you just  plug them in, instead of swearing at the electrical connections.

The issue I'm seeing here is only to overcome temperature limitations in the various setups. So if we power the units 220-240V, from Emerson you get 1200W per power supply, while Murata can give you 1300W per power supply. Hoping that the units can use all the "juice" they get, a Murata powered equipment will give you more "juice" to draw on. If the hashing boards are the same (which will not be the case) .. one would expect  better output from a  Murata powered unit.

But everything should be averaged. Good chips and "bad" (corner cut, but within specs) chips are being used for the hashing machine, with good and "bad" power supplies. The word "bad' should read here as "spec threshold".

The only hope is that when put together, i don't get a box with everything at the limit A more power demanding board should get a good power supply to compensate. I say hope, because with everything in a rush , no one in his right mind will spend the time to optimize the boxes before shipping.  The focus should be to have them hashing and out the door. A good manufacturer with high volume has most of the things right, solving the issues as they appear (with RMAs at worst or firmware / configuration fixes at best).

In Canada you pay customs tax when you get them. Not sure how they'll calculate it in this case, versus a SP10, I guess by value In US you pay customs tax if they feel like it (if it exceeds a certain amount .. your carrier knows better). VAT is Value Added Tax and you pay it in US when you go to any store and buy hardware, how much, depends on the state you're in.

[jtoomim]

If I understand it corectly, the specs which change are related to the hashrate.

The Rockerbox ASICs Spondoolies received probably have fewer functional cores than designed, which led Spondoolies to increase the clockspeed and voltage in order to get closer to the hashrate goal. This decreases the efficiency. The SP30s will probably still be limited by the PSUs after they are reconfigured in a factory-default overclocked configuration, but will have a lower hashrate. So, yes.

The issue I'm seeing here is only to overcome temperature limitations in the various setups. So if we power the units 220-240V, from Emerson you get 1200W per power supply, while Murata can give you 1300W per power supply. Hoping that the units can use all the "juice" they get, a Murata powered equipment will give you more "juice" to draw on. If the hashing boards are the same (which will not be the case) .. one would expect  better output from a  Murata powered unit.

1200W or 1300W is what the PSUs are rated for. However, Spondoolies tested each extensively, and believes that both models can be used well above their rating. They expect 1375W available from each model if you're using 200V-240V. I have seen nothing about what they expect on 110V-120V. If I had to guess, I'd say around 1200W.

In Canada you pay customs tax when you get them. Not sure how they'll calculate it in this case, versus a SP10, I guess by value In US you pay customs tax if they feel like it (if it exceeds a certain amount .. your carrier knows better). VAT is Value Added Tax and you pay it in US when you go to any store and buy hardware, how much, depends on the state you're in.

USA isn't Canada. If you are trying to carry something into the USA across the border yourself, you may be hit with a 3% customs tax if the value exceeds some threshold regardless of the goods type. For computer equipment imported through some shipping method, you pay the specific rate for importing computer hardware, which is 0% (http://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/109091-import-duty-rate-for-computer-hardware-is-0/).

[jb0316]

If your GB stated $290 it should be $290 and nothing more regardless of power consumption. Those were the terms the customer agreed to.

People paid for the SP30 only. The hosting was a bonus offered to anyone that wanted. It wasn't enforced or anything and I am sure that it's based on the power consumption. The good thing is that I don't think that it will vary a lot because we can't push the PSUs a lot more than 2700W.

Also, Spondoolies emailed customers about a month ago asking for a commitment to either hosting or free shipping. If you didn't opt for hosting back then, it may be too late to get those prices. The fact that bobsmoke is asking now what the price is suggests to me that he didn't purchase it then, which is why I listed the rates Spondoolies is currently advertising.

The crippled Rockerbox ASICs might pull less than 2700W per SP30, in which case customers might get a rebate from their hosting provider. Or they might not. Depends on the DC's policy, I guess.

thanks!  btw do you know why Spoodoolies says there is no customs fee when shipping the SPxx from Israel to US? how do they import the machines into US?

I'm not 100% positive but I believe it's because of the free trade agreement between the US and Israel.

[xstr8guy]

In Canada you pay customs tax when you get them. Not sure how they'll calculate it in this case, versus a SP10, I guess by value In US you pay customs tax if they feel like it (if it exceeds a certain amount .. your carrier knows better). VAT is Value Added Tax and you pay it in US when you go to any store and buy hardware, how much, depends on the state you're in.

We do not pay VAT in the US. Most Americans don't even know what that is. We pay state sales tax which varies by state (and municipality/city). In fact, 5 states don't even have a sales tax. We don't even pay any sales tax on items ordered on the internet unless the vendor has a physical presence in your state.

[phillipsjk]

In any event, 1200W will not max out a 110V @20amp breaker.

For continuous loads, you are supposed to de-rate 20% (In North America anyway).
That means a 15Amp circuit can safely supply 12 amps continuously, while a 20 amp circuit can supply 15 amps continuously.

Devices with bad power factor (lacking active PFC) will draw more current without (necessarily) drawing more power. (I suspect the Spondoolies-Tech supplies use Active PFC).

[Collider]

Any power supply will be less efficient at 120V vs 230V, therefore the maximum supplied power is lower.

Specifically, both the Murata and Emerson are only rated as 1050W on a 120V circuit. (vs 1250+ at 208V+)

This is due to simple physics, and spondoolies cannot do too much about it. Any halfway decent datacenter will have 208V+ available.

It isn´t too difficult to run a 240V circuit in an American home, and the rest of the world doesn´t have such an exotic voltage in their house anyway.

[jtoomim]

(I suspect the Spondoolies-Tech supplies use Active PFC).

Yes, the PSUs used in the SP30s are rated for power factors around 0.99. That's high enough that I don't usually bother with them during calculations. I've seen some evidence on other PSUs' data sheets indicating that the power factor should be load-dependent. I can't remember exactly, but I think the trend was higher power factor at higher loads, meaning the 0.99 is probably the correct power factor at 80% to 120% of rated capacity.

For reference, a power supply with no PFC typically has a power factor around 0.75. I think passive PFC typically results in PF around 0.90 or 0.95, but I haven't looked that number up specifically.

[frisco]

As I already wrote, please be patient. We'll start to ship the SP30s this week and release the information regarding current batches, next batches and compensation.

Guy

July is ending and two more days have gone by without news. You have contacted us for shipping info but have not provided any extra information.
I know I should be patient but some info helps with the waiting, it doesn't need to be final shipping dates but a daily report on progress, pictures of assembling process or whatever would be great.
You have been great with comunication until this issue don't leave us in the shadows wondering about our investments.

[Collider]

I guess they have Zvisha locked up in the basement as he works the firmware to achieve the highest possible stable hashrate on the units.

[Guy Corem]

We'll release a statement later today.
Shipping will begin tomorrow.

Guy

[blaiser]

We'll release a statement later today.
Shipping will begin tomorrow.

Guy

Thank you Guy, Gadi, and the Spondoolies-Tech team for all that you do. Especially with all the additional effort evolved with trouble-shooting the unanticipated! Try your best not to forget to live your quality of life, when the fog lifts that really what it's all about anyway, huh. Let us not forget that it is you guys who have taken on the challenge of pioneering the future of BTC and all that goes with it, keep your heads up high!

Regards,

~Blaise