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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1346484 times)
Coinler
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July 27, 2014, 04:21:24 AM
 #11741

*sigh* this is a dead horse that will never stop getting beaten the "proper fiat/wallet purchase implementation" that you speak of is, at this moment, IMPOSSIBLE to achieve since it requires SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND AMERICAN DOLLARS to get LICENSED by FINCen to enable this. SOOOO either drop it or cough up the couple hundred thousand dollars needed to achieve this....


i dont know about that exactly. there may be other ways. as someone who has worked in the Point of Sale industry for years it's not impossible to get coding done that implements credit/debitcard to a cryptocurrency. i actually know devs who are capable of making this happen with full integration for barcode systems at checkout counters etc. since cryptocurrencies are considered a commodity it's much like buying a carton of milk in this regard using magnetic stripe readers etc that integrate with the banking system. itll just take a significant amount of preplanning.. but to state its impossible shows a lack of knowledge in this arena. just saying.
If you implement credit to crypto, you're going to get defrauded left, right, and center...  I think you're sorely missing something here if you honestly think you could pull that off and not lose all of your money.
Why exactly would that be?
Uh, what part he's missing, I couldn't tell you. But, performing an irreversible transaction (e.g. sending crypto) on the basis of payment via a reversible medium (e.g. credit card) is about as dumb as it gets in taking payments?

Although... maybe VRC devs will just offer rollbacks of the blockchain to reverse fraudulent VRC purchases with credit cards.  hahaha... ya.... *sigh*

*sigh* this is a dead horse that will never stop getting beaten the "proper fiat/wallet purchase implementation" that you speak of is, at this moment, IMPOSSIBLE to achieve since it requires SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND AMERICAN DOLLARS to get LICENSED by FINCen to enable this. SOOOO either drop it or cough up the couple hundred thousand dollars needed to achieve this....


i dont know about that exactly. there may be other ways. as someone who has worked in the Point of Sale industry for years it's not impossible to get coding done that implements credit/debitcard to a cryptocurrency. i actually know devs who are capable of making this happen with full integration for barcode systems at checkout counters etc. since cryptocurrencies are considered a commodity it's much like buying a carton of milk in this regard using magnetic stripe readers etc that integrate with the banking system. itll just take a significant amount of preplanning.. but to state its impossible shows a lack of knowledge in this arena. just saying.
If you implement credit to crypto, you're going to get defrauded left, right, and center...  I think you're sorely missing something here if you honestly think you could pull that off and not lose all of your money.

please explain more exactly how this defrauding will occur in your view?
You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.

i blame flouride in the water supply LOL
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July 27, 2014, 04:28:25 AM
 #11742



What's the next milestone for VRC?

Hopefully #VeriBank. Fingers crossed.
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July 27, 2014, 04:32:26 AM
 #11743

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)
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July 27, 2014, 04:37:59 AM
 #11744

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

I'm talking about identity verification, not 2FA or any of that 'security' jazz. Though I believe that it is also important to have these in place.

With identity verification, the "merchant" (in this case Vericoin) would be able to win chargeback disputes by being able to provide proof that the card holder did indeed make the purchase and that the purchase was in fact genuine.

Simple.

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July 27, 2014, 04:39:39 AM
 #11745

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

I'm talking about identity verification, not 2FA or any of that 'security' jazz. Though I believe that it is also important to have these in place.

With identity verification, the "merchant" (in this case Vericoin) would be able to win chargeback disputes by being able to provide proof that the card holder did indeed make the purchase and that the purchase was in fact genuine.

Simple.

The developers already said that they are not going to do it. They will be using third parties such as Moolah.

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July 27, 2014, 04:40:03 AM
 #11746

also I was saying the regulatory/licensing portion is impossible without massive fiat reserves, not the coding portion
Coinler
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July 27, 2014, 04:40:45 AM
 #11747

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

well im not here to teach you about creditcard merchant and banking technologies so if that is your view then what can i say but, you are welcome to your opinion. keep saying it's impossible, you'll believe it eventually. experienced point of sale and financial sector worker here who's worked in rooms with millions of dollars sitting next to me in cash.. but hey what do i know. if you try any creditcard fraud though via my implementation, you'll find cops at your door no matter what country u live in.

vericoin may have chosen to use a 3rd party. but doesnt that mean "not impossible"?

anyway it's past my bedtime/movietime so im off for now.
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July 27, 2014, 04:42:36 AM
 #11748

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

well im not here to teach you about creditcard merchant and banking technologies so if that is your view then what can i say but, you are welcome to your opinion. keep saying it's impossible, you'll believe it eventually. experienced point of sale and financial sector worker here who's worked in rooms with millions of dollars sitting next to me in cash.. but hey what do i know. if you try any creditcard fraud though via my implementation, you'll find cops at your door no matter what country u live in.

why didn't you take the money and run? lol j/k
Coinler
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July 27, 2014, 04:44:16 AM
 #11749

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

well im not here to teach you about creditcard merchant and banking technologies so if that is your view then what can i say but, you are welcome to your opinion. keep saying it's impossible, you'll believe it eventually. experienced point of sale and financial sector worker here who's worked in rooms with millions of dollars sitting next to me in cash.. but hey what do i know. if you try any creditcard fraud though via my implementation, you'll find cops at your door no matter what country u live in.

why didn't you take the money and run? lol j/k

hhahah that joke ive heard so many times by basically everyone that's been in one of these rooms lol
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July 27, 2014, 04:46:47 AM
 #11750

also I was saying the regulatory/licensing portion is impossible without massive fiat reserves, not the coding portion

The original scope of the implementation requiring FINCen licensing is not feasible at this stage I agree.

There are however, other ways to provide VRC in exchange for FIAT within the wallet without using Moolah or any other exchange directly.

If you could accept credit card payments within the wallet, VRC could be purchased from a 'fund' (Verifund perhaps?) at a close approximation of the current exchange rate minus a small processing fee, and the FIAT from the credit transaction could then be used to later purchase more VRC from an exchange to keep the fund 'topped up'.

Now I'm not an expert in finance or law by any means, but I don't believe that this would require FINCen licensing like Cryptsy has.

MIDAS COIN: Gold backed crypto! Sign up via my referral link below and you get an extra 1.5% reward! PM me for info =)

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July 27, 2014, 04:47:00 AM
 #11751

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

well im not here to teach you about creditcard merchant and banking technologies so if that is your view then what can i say but, you are welcome to your opinion. keep saying it's impossible, you'll believe it eventually. experienced point of sale and financial sector worker here who's worked in rooms with millions of dollars sitting next to me in cash.. but hey what do i know. if you try any creditcard fraud though via my implementation, you'll find cops at your door no matter what country u live in.

why didn't you take the money and run? lol j/k

hhahah that joke ive heard so many times by basically everyone that's been in one of these rooms lol

lol ya wouldn't get far I assume, but hey glad you are here with us
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July 27, 2014, 04:48:15 AM
 #11752

also I was saying the regulatory/licensing portion is impossible without massive fiat reserves, not the coding portion

The original scope of the implementation requiring FINCen licensing is not feasible at this stage I agree.

There are however, other ways to provide VRC in exchange for FIAT within the wallet without using Moolah or any other exchange directly.

If you could accept credit card payments within the wallet, VRC could be purchased from a 'fund' (Verifund perhaps?) at a close approximation of the current exchange rate minus a small processing fee, and the FIAT from the credit transaction could then be used to later purchase more VRC from an exchange to keep the fund 'topped up'.

Now I'm not an expert in finance or law by any means, but I don't believe that this would require FINCen licensing like Cryptsy has.

hmmmm im not sure im not a lawyer but if this is feasible then perhaps its worth taking a look at but yes chargebacks would be a major concern
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July 27, 2014, 04:50:44 AM
 #11753

also I was saying the regulatory/licensing portion is impossible without massive fiat reserves, not the coding portion

The original scope of the implementation requiring FINCen licensing is not feasible at this stage I agree.

There are however, other ways to provide VRC in exchange for FIAT within the wallet without using Moolah or any other exchange directly.

If you could accept credit card payments within the wallet, VRC could be purchased from a 'fund' (Verifund perhaps?) at a close approximation of the current exchange rate minus a small processing fee, and the FIAT from the credit transaction could then be used to later purchase more VRC from an exchange to keep the fund 'topped up'.

Now I'm not an expert in finance or law by any means, but I don't believe that this would require FINCen licensing like Cryptsy has.

hmmmm im not sure im not a lawyer but if this is feasible then perhaps its worth taking a look at but yes chargebacks would be a major concern

They would be, and without verification it would almost certainly result in a lot of chargebacks which you would not be able to win. With verification however, disputing the chargeback claim would be a piece of cake.

MIDAS COIN: Gold backed crypto! Sign up via my referral link below and you get an extra 1.5% reward! PM me for info =)

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Sign up via my referral link above and you receive an extra 1.5% reward for your hash! PM me for details
socal
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July 27, 2014, 04:52:18 AM
 #11754

also I was saying the regulatory/licensing portion is impossible without massive fiat reserves, not the coding portion

The original scope of the implementation requiring FINCen licensing is not feasible at this stage I agree.

There are however, other ways to provide VRC in exchange for FIAT within the wallet without using Moolah or any other exchange directly.

If you could accept credit card payments within the wallet, VRC could be purchased from a 'fund' (Verifund perhaps?) at a close approximation of the current exchange rate minus a small processing fee, and the FIAT from the credit transaction could then be used to later purchase more VRC from an exchange to keep the fund 'topped up'.

Now I'm not an expert in finance or law by any means, but I don't believe that this would require FINCen licensing like Cryptsy has.

hmmmm im not sure im not a lawyer but if this is feasible then perhaps its worth taking a look at but yes chargebacks would be a major concern

They would be, and without verification it would almost certainly result in a lot of chargebacks which you would not be able to win. With verification however, disputing the chargeback claim would be a piece of cake.

further incentive for VERIfication then? you only get Fiat/wallet Credit/debit card purchasing enabled if you get VERIfied? that could work but the implementation of such is beyond me I am not a coder
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July 27, 2014, 04:54:52 AM
 #11755

also I was saying the regulatory/licensing portion is impossible without massive fiat reserves, not the coding portion

The original scope of the implementation requiring FINCen licensing is not feasible at this stage I agree.

There are however, other ways to provide VRC in exchange for FIAT within the wallet without using Moolah or any other exchange directly.

If you could accept credit card payments within the wallet, VRC could be purchased from a 'fund' (Verifund perhaps?) at a close approximation of the current exchange rate minus a small processing fee, and the FIAT from the credit transaction could then be used to later purchase more VRC from an exchange to keep the fund 'topped up'.

Now I'm not an expert in finance or law by any means, but I don't believe that this would require FINCen licensing like Cryptsy has.

hmmmm im not sure im not a lawyer but if this is feasible then perhaps its worth taking a look at but yes chargebacks would be a major concern

They would be, and without verification it would almost certainly result in a lot of chargebacks which you would not be able to win. With verification however, disputing the chargeback claim would be a piece of cake.

further incentive for VERIfication then? you only get Fiat/wallet Credit/debit card purchasing enabled if you get VERIfied? that could work but the implementation of such is beyond me I am not a coder

That would be how it could work I believe.

I'm also not much of a coder, but I don't think it would be difficult for a proficient programmer.

MIDAS COIN: Gold backed crypto! Sign up via my referral link below and you get an extra 1.5% reward! PM me for info =)

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Sign up via my referral link above and you receive an extra 1.5% reward for your hash! PM me for details
Coinler
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July 27, 2014, 05:13:34 AM
 #11756

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

well im not here to teach you about creditcard merchant and banking technologies so if that is your view then what can i say but, you are welcome to your opinion. keep saying it's impossible, you'll believe it eventually. experienced point of sale and financial sector worker here who's worked in rooms with millions of dollars sitting next to me in cash.. but hey what do i know. if you try any creditcard fraud though via my implementation, you'll find cops at your door no matter what country u live in.

why didn't you take the money and run? lol j/k

hhahah that joke ive heard so many times by basically everyone that's been in one of these rooms lol

lol ya wouldn't get far I assume, but hey glad you are here with us

lol thought never crossed my mind. but for others i probably cant say the same. ive seen some work with tears welling up in their eyes haha. few could work in these rooms unsupervised however so ya, wont get very far.
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July 27, 2014, 06:40:27 AM
 #11757

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

well im not here to teach you about creditcard merchant and banking technologies so if that is your view then what can i say but, you are welcome to your opinion. keep saying it's impossible, you'll believe it eventually. experienced point of sale and financial sector worker here who's worked in rooms with millions of dollars sitting next to me in cash.. but hey what do i know. if you try any creditcard fraud though via my implementation, you'll find cops at your door no matter what country u live in.

vericoin may have chosen to use a 3rd party. but doesnt that mean "not impossible"?

anyway it's past my bedtime/movietime so im off for now.
It's not just an opinion... nor does having sat next to piles of cash indicate you know anything about credit card fraud prevention.

How about this: if you're so sure nobody can defraud your credit card processing implementation, please put your money where your mouth is, and offer a public challenge to proving you wrong.

The fact your say, "you'll find cops at your door" clearly indicates that you have no clue about anonymity on the internet.  How exactly are you going to find the person that defrauded you to buy a digital product that was never shipped?  And even if you are talking about a merchant that physically ships products, it's going to be a drop address, and the recipient will be long gone by the time you get the credit card charge back...

So... Prove it or shut the fuck up - and I'll happily disprove anything you try to prove about your recent comments. So, I would suggest you go with the "shut the fuck up" option, and stop talking about what you don't know.  You show me somewhere that you can purchase crypto currencies with credit cards, and I'll show you somewhere that is (or will be) actively being defrauded.



And BTW, working with large sums of cash that isn't yours is easy - most people learn quickly not to associate that cash with spendable money, and instead view it as a sort of monopoly money - it can be counted, but has no real world value to you.
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July 27, 2014, 07:05:40 AM
 #11758

You've heard of credit card fraud before... right?

There are ways to prevent this, as has been already mentioned above, verification is the key.
You've got to be kidding me.  Bring your 3-tier verification processes.  You're still going to get defrauded if you allow crypto purchases with credit cards - period.  If you don't understand this, then you're just being ignorant.

But please, prove me wrong... (hint: you can't, I'm just going to enjoy watching you fail if you try)

well im not here to teach you about creditcard merchant and banking technologies so if that is your view then what can i say but, you are welcome to your opinion. keep saying it's impossible, you'll believe it eventually. experienced point of sale and financial sector worker here who's worked in rooms with millions of dollars sitting next to me in cash.. but hey what do i know. if you try any creditcard fraud though via my implementation, you'll find cops at your door no matter what country u live in.

vericoin may have chosen to use a 3rd party. but doesnt that mean "not impossible"?

anyway it's past my bedtime/movietime so im off for now.
It's not just an opinion... nor does having sat next to piles of cash indicate you know anything about credit card fraud prevention.

How about this: if you're so sure nobody can defraud your credit card processing implementation, please put your money where your mouth is, and offer a public challenge to proving you wrong.

The fact your say, "you'll find cops at your door" clearly indicates that you have no clue about anonymity on the internet.  How exactly are you going to find the person that defrauded you to buy a digital product that was never shipped?  And even if you are talking about a merchant that physically ships products, it's going to be a drop address, and the recipient will be long gone by the time you get the credit card charge back...

So... Prove it or shut the fuck up - and I'll happily disprove anything you try to prove about your recent comments. So, I would suggest you go with the "shut the fuck up" option, and stop talking about what you don't know.  You show me somewhere that you can purchase crypto currencies with credit cards, and I'll show you somewhere that is (or will be) actively being defrauded.



And BTW, working with large sums of cash that isn't yours is easy - most people learn quickly not to associate that cash with spendable money, and instead view it as a sort of monopoly money - it can be counted, but has no real world value to you.

Verification on both ends of a transfer could make this happen. If both parties agree to the terms of verification then if someone took a product illegally they would have to face the law. This would require adapting the current business practices set in place by crypto currencies, and companies like Paypal ect. The reason CC get charged back is that Paypal simply hasn't found a way to make intellectual property sales secure enough yet. I have seen chargebacks on "intellectual" property since the day people started charging back. I have been in video game sales for roughly 17 years before I moved onto crypto, so I am very familiar with chargebacks.

The only reason they charge back is they have no proof of sale for "intellectual" property. Which is why in most cases, all you need to do is send something like a hand letter to prove delivery / acceptance and then all the ability to charge back goes away once you have verified your side of the transaction. In intellectual property debates the companies like paypal, currently always side with the buyer as a default.

Now imagine, if VRC used verification and could make this integration between intellectual property sales, and merchants seemless, and more secure? Sure it would require additional innovation to create that security. But that is why we are here, having this discussion.

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July 27, 2014, 07:07:46 AM
 #11759

Guys... any update on when the next rollback will happen? I'd like to know so I can make a few grand on it if possible.

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July 27, 2014, 07:50:31 AM
 #11760

Guys... any update on when the next rollback will happen? I'd like to know so I can make a few grand on it if possible.



Hi Robert, Bobby, Bob,

Of course when conditions in the market warrant. But I am making right here, right now the formal suggestion to have a Roll Back Day every year on the anniversary of Launch, as a preemptive strike in case some thieves are considering an attack.

Imagine the marketing possibilities... "Vericoin: The Wal-Mart of Crypto"... Catchy, ah? The possibilities are endless, really, but I volunteer only this one as a tease.

Much more on pay-per-view...
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