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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1348518 times)
MAD945
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August 10, 2014, 05:42:23 AM
 #12601

Do I hear crickets??

Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included.
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August 10, 2014, 05:53:43 AM
 #12602

Do I hear crickets??

Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included.

Excuse me?? What you say is that, in reality, it is impossible to know how many coins are staking, REAL COINS, at any and all times? Is that it?. Because if that is it, I can't think of any bigger bullshit I have heard in my entire -and quite long- life so far...

So, that is to say that for a coin with 26.8 million coins presently, -which, according to you, are impossible to account for, so it will be an arbitrary, perhaps approximate number-, it is OK to have 30 million or even more coins staking at any given moment? All of that while the exchanges are loaded with MILLIONS of coins available for trading, which are NOT staking? Is that what you are saying? Let me get it from the horse's mouth because my fingers are really itching to type what I am coming with if this bullshit position is even pretended to be maintained...

Now, since you seem to be answering for Patrick (crickets), what is your answer to the transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "to help stabilize the price"? and whatever happened to them? I'm sure you will have abundant answers for those two floaters also...
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August 10, 2014, 05:57:14 AM
 #12603

2. Interest is compounded continuously with consideration of the 8 hour "cooldown" period after a successful stake. Essentially, it's compounded at every ~8 hours or so, on average.

Hey, thanks for the quick reply! So from my understanding if one was to stake 24/7 the compounding period would be every 8 hours. So the difference between staking once a year vs. 24/7 would be as follows?

Staking once a year: (FV) = 100,000*(1+0.0225) = 102,250 VRC
Staking 24/7 (FV) = 100,000*(1+(0.0225/(365*3)))^(365*3))= 102,275.5

So you basically get an extra 0.02% of interest  Cheesy
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August 10, 2014, 05:58:39 AM
 #12604

Do I hear crickets??

Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included.

Excuse me?? What you say is that, in reality, it is impossible to know how many coins are staking, REAL COINS, at any and all times? Is that it?. Because if that is it, I can't think of any bigger bullshit I have heard in my entire -and quite long- life so far...

So, that is to say that for a coin with 26.8 million coins presently, -which, according to you, are impossible to account for, so it will be an arbitrary, perhaps approximate number-, it is OK to have 30 million or even more coins staking at any given moment? All of that while the exchanges are loaded with MILLIONS of coins available for trading, which are NOT staking? Is that what you are saying? Let me get it from the horse's mouth because my fingers are really itching to type what I am coming with if this bullshit position is even pretended to be maintained...

Now, since you seem to be answering for Patrick (crickets), what is your answer to the transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "to help stabilize the price"? and whatever happened to them? I'm sure you will have abundant answers for those two floaters also...

Dude if you think it's buillshit just move on, sell your coins, and go find a coin where you can find the answer and be happy. No one is making you hold this coin. So please stop playing the victim card.

I'm also going to sleep, so no need to reply back to me.
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August 10, 2014, 05:59:38 AM
 #12605

LMAO  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

It's soooooo funny when people get mad because they can't grasp simple concepts like "Stake Weight" and start screaming nonsense. My mental image is of Cro-magnon coming into contact with a computer and smashing it because he can't figure it out lmao  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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August 10, 2014, 06:05:40 AM
 #12606

Do yourselves a favor and click the "ignore" button next to barabbas' name.

You'll thank me later.  Grin

VRC VPJRmAv8oMVRDas1G4LTU6swBpAsWu5x2Y
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August 10, 2014, 06:07:58 AM
 #12607

Do I hear crickets??

Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included.

Excuse me?? What you say is that, in reality, it is impossible to know how many coins are staking, REAL COINS, at any and all times? Is that it?. Because if that is it, I can't think of any bigger bullshit I have heard in my entire -and quite long- life so far...

So, that is to say that for a coin with 26.8 million coins presently, -which, according to you, are impossible to account for, so it will be an arbitrary, perhaps approximate number-, it is OK to have 30 million or even more coins staking at any given moment? All of that while the exchanges are loaded with MILLIONS of coins available for trading, which are NOT staking? Is that what you are saying? Let me get it from the horse's mouth because my fingers are really itching to type what I am coming with if this bullshit position is even pretended to be maintained...

Now, since you seem to be answering for Patrick (crickets), what is your answer to the transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "to help stabilize the price"? and whatever happened to them? I'm sure you will have abundant answers for those two floaters also...

From a literal sense I can see where Barabbas is coming from but it simply doesn't work that way. Every coin staking will have a different weight attached to it so it would not be possible to count every single coin staking.

Patrick can ring in on the maximum weight per coin and you can do some math to come to an average range of  amount of coins staking.
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August 10, 2014, 06:08:53 AM
 #12608

Do yourselves a favor and click the "ignore" button next to barabbas' name.

You'll thank me later.  Grin


oh I did and I use ScottAllyn's script that even removes the "This user is currently ignored" so from my point of view he no longer exists BUT people keep quoting him so I am forced to see whatever insanity he posts up
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August 10, 2014, 06:09:11 AM
 #12609

2. Interest is compounded continuously with consideration of the 8 hour "cooldown" period after a successful stake. Essentially, it's compounded at every ~8 hours or so, on average.

Hey, thanks for the quick reply! So from my understanding if one was to stake 24/7 the compounding period would be every 8 hours. So the difference between staking once a year vs. 24/7 would be as follows?

Staking once a year: (FV) = 100,000*(1+0.0225) = 102,250 VRC
Staking 24/7 (FV) = 100,000*(1+(0.0225/(365*3)))^(365*3))= 102,275.5

So you basically get an extra 0.02% of interest  Cheesy

Yes this on average would be correct. Also however if you have your wallet open 24/7 you would also earn the transaction fees for every stake block you get. So the transaction fees earned will be more numerous if open 24/7 as the coinage will be more continuous.
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August 10, 2014, 06:10:17 AM
 #12610

Do I hear crickets??

Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included.

Excuse me?? What you say is that, in reality, it is impossible to know how many coins are staking, REAL COINS, at any and all times? Is that it?. Because if that is it, I can't think of any bigger bullshit I have heard in my entire -and quite long- life so far...

So, that is to say that for a coin with 26.8 million coins presently, -which, according to you, are impossible to account for, so it will be an arbitrary, perhaps approximate number-, it is OK to have 30 million or even more coins staking at any given moment? All of that while the exchanges are loaded with MILLIONS of coins available for trading, which are NOT staking? Is that what you are saying? Let me get it from the horse's mouth because my fingers are really itching to type what I am coming with if this bullshit position is even pretended to be maintained...

Now, since you seem to be answering for Patrick (crickets), what is your answer to the transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "to help stabilize the price"? and whatever happened to them? I'm sure you will have abundant answers for those two floaters also...

Yes, it is impossible to know exactly how many coins are staking at one moment. This is the case for every PoS coin. It's not possible to stake more than 26.8M but the "effective" stake could be higher due to coin age.

As for the coins during the hack, I have all of them. I put up both buy and sell walls to ensure that if anyone lost anything, it would be me. I didn't gain or lose any VRC or BTC. I'm not sure how many more times I'll have to answer this, but the only exchange I did anything on was Bittrex and you are free to ask them whether my balance now is the same as before.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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August 10, 2014, 06:12:10 AM
 #12611

2. Interest is compounded continuously with consideration of the 8 hour "cooldown" period after a successful stake. Essentially, it's compounded at every ~8 hours or so, on average.

Hey, thanks for the quick reply! So from my understanding if one was to stake 24/7 the compounding period would be every 8 hours. So the difference between staking once a year vs. 24/7 would be as follows?

Staking once a year: (FV) = 100,000*(1+0.0225) = 102,250 VRC
Staking 24/7 (FV) = 100,000*(1+(0.0225/(365*3)))^(365*3))= 102,275.5

So you basically get an extra 0.02% of interest  Cheesy

See Doug's answer re: transaction fees. More importantly, if few are staking, the interest rate will be quite low for you (and others) causing you to have a much lower effective rate.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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August 10, 2014, 06:14:00 AM
 #12612

Do yourselves a favor and click the "ignore" button next to barabbas' name.

You'll thank me later.  Grin

It might be a surprise to some but I think Barabbas means well but he can jump the gun at times. He's a highly intelligent individual and we need to keep an open mind to opposing views.

Having an open mind and listening to constructive opposing views will make us stronger as a community.

Again I stress CONSTRUCTIVE...not angry rants and freak outs
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August 10, 2014, 06:14:43 AM
 #12613

Once again the Devs, cool as cucumbers, come through with another amazing round of FUD busting, thanks for the clear and informative answers Pat and Doug!
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August 10, 2014, 06:17:05 AM
 #12614

4.3 BTC volume on this SHITCOIN

Pack your CRYPTOBAGS boyz, you sleep outside in shoe boxes tonight.

Shitcoin is bleeding. Shitcoin is dying. Patrick Nosker made a ton of money from that Mintpal hack. He saved the exchange, made a shit ton of money off Mintpal, cause i know that they talked a lot behind the scene, and sacrificed Vericoin instead. Mark my fucking words. 4k satoshi, here i come

I didn't make any money from the hack-- in fact, if the current price is due to the hack, I have much less BTC value right now since I still have my VRC. VeriCoin would have been sacrificed if we did nothing. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

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VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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August 10, 2014, 06:23:13 AM
 #12615

4.3 BTC volume on this SHITCOIN

Pack your CRYPTOBAGS boyz, you sleep outside in shoe boxes tonight.

Shitcoin is bleeding. Shitcoin is dying. Patrick Nosker made a ton of money from that Mintpal hack. He saved the exchange, made a shit ton of money off Mintpal, cause i know that they talked a lot behind the scene, and sacrificed Vericoin instead. Mark my fucking words. 4k satoshi, here i come

I didn't make any money from the hack-- in fact, if the current price is due to the hack, I have much less BTC value right now since I still have my VRC. VeriCoin would have been sacrificed if we did nothing. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Patrick....sorry you have to deal with this BS after dealing with a death. Hope all is well...

The Vercoin Community sends its love Smiley
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August 10, 2014, 06:23:22 AM
 #12616

http://vrcstake.ticonerd.com/ went trough the roof lol

why is the 24 high at 28M when total coins is only 26M?
i would like to know that too

Yeah the stake is not directly coins. It's a coin weight that includes coinage (time since last earned interest for each coin). It's essentially normalized including coinage and is close to the total coins staking but a bit more complex. Nonetheless this is some historic staking for POS I suspect and is near the realistic maximum. Impressive show of community strength!  Kudos to all you guys! Go VeriCoin!  

Hey Doug, at the end pf the day you are going to have to explain this a whole lot more clearly so EVERYONE can understand because right now, before the end of the day, this is starting to sound suspiciously, very suspiciously, like a whole lot of CRAP.

How can a coin that has a max of less than 26 mill coins, all already mined during the POW stage, has now 28 million coins STAKING? This is preposterous. Everyone knows that there are A LOT of coins still NOT STAKING and lying on the exchanges (I know I have quite a few and they are not staking a single VRC), so how the heck can so many coins be staking? An understandable answer, without ANY bull shit, is required rather immediately, long before the end of the day, ok?

Ok first off these aren't fake numbers (this is not a scam).
Since the dawn of PoS network stake is a weight including coinage. The reason is for fair distribution of staking. If the number of coins is the only factor involved in determining the probability of a node solving a block then the small wallets would hardly ever stake. So this weight is actually the appropriate stake value for fair distribution of the stake.

However it would be much more intuitive to monitor just the number of coins currently staked.  This number is in the code but is not accessible in a function of its own without coinage, because the age determines which coins in a given wallet are actually staking.  In the next wallet Update though I should be able to add this pure total coin staking value as that would be more of an appropriate value to intuitively monitor. Nonetheless the weight is not going to be too much bigger than the total.
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August 10, 2014, 06:26:05 AM
 #12617

Do I hear crickets??

Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included.

Excuse me?? What you say is that, in reality, it is impossible to know how many coins are staking, REAL COINS, at any and all times? Is that it?. Because if that is it, I can't think of any bigger bullshit I have heard in my entire -and quite long- life so far...

So, that is to say that for a coin with 26.8 million coins presently, -which, according to you, are impossible to account for, so it will be an arbitrary, perhaps approximate number-, it is OK to have 30 million or even more coins staking at any given moment? All of that while the exchanges are loaded with MILLIONS of coins available for trading, which are NOT staking? Is that what you are saying? Let me get it from the horse's mouth because my fingers are really itching to type what I am coming with if this bullshit position is even pretended to be maintained...

Now, since you seem to be answering for Patrick (crickets), what is your answer to the transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "to help stabilize the price"? and whatever happened to them? I'm sure you will have abundant answers for those two floaters also...

Yes, it is impossible to know exactly how many coins are staking at one moment. This is the case for every PoS coin. It's not possible to stake more than 26.8M but the "effective" stake could be higher due to coin age.

As for the coins during the hack, I have all of them. I put up both buy and sell walls to ensure that if anyone lost anything, it would be me. I didn't gain or lose any VRC or BTC. I'm not sure how many more times I'll have to answer this, but the only exchange I did anything on was Bittrex and you are free to ask them whether my balance now is the same as before.

Well Patrick I cannot know where you may have answered that question before but as far as I know -and many others- you haven't answered it HERE, on this forum, where the question has been posed a few times. It is still a bit flimsy, if you ask me, what you just answered... You transferred 200k VRC to bittrex to put on SELL orders ONLY. You have not said here -again, to my knowledge- that you put any BUY orders -like you just have said a moment ago-. I didn't think you would have a bunch of BTC hanging around to do that...AND, more importantly, I still FAIL to see what the "stabilizing" point was to have 200k VRC FOR SALE... It just doesn't make any sense. Let me see the picture that you paint in a bit more detail: Youy transferred 200k of YOUR COINS to bittrex and put up several SELL orders with them "becauser you did not wanted anyone but you to lose anything". You are a bright kind and you will see that that makes absolutely no sense at all, right? If anything, your sell orders would take the price down, more or less significantly. Now, since NOW, you claim to have also put some BUY orders in, how many BTC dis you put in play? And at what levels? Because a lot of people were trying to sell indeed... Depending on the amount of BTC -sorry but my understanding is that you are a man of very small financial resources-, BUYING orders would have helped indeed to prop up the price. And, if so, how come you have never mentioned, much less in specific details, until now?

You would understand that I would qualify the "explanation" as "flimsy", right?

I'll tell you what, why don't you just jump right out on your bright pal "socal"'s bandwagon and call me a fudster and you can continua not answering at all or answering selectively, in place and in subject matters?

This is not looking very good Pat, not at all.
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August 10, 2014, 06:32:29 AM
 #12618

Do I hear crickets??

Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included.

Excuse me?? What you say is that, in reality, it is impossible to know how many coins are staking, REAL COINS, at any and all times? Is that it?. Because if that is it, I can't think of any bigger bullshit I have heard in my entire -and quite long- life so far...

So, that is to say that for a coin with 26.8 million coins presently, -which, according to you, are impossible to account for, so it will be an arbitrary, perhaps approximate number-, it is OK to have 30 million or even more coins staking at any given moment? All of that while the exchanges are loaded with MILLIONS of coins available for trading, which are NOT staking? Is that what you are saying? Let me get it from the horse's mouth because my fingers are really itching to type what I am coming with if this bullshit position is even pretended to be maintained...

Now, since you seem to be answering for Patrick (crickets), what is your answer to the transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "to help stabilize the price"? and whatever happened to them? I'm sure you will have abundant answers for those two floaters also...

Yes, it is impossible to know exactly how many coins are staking at one moment. This is the case for every PoS coin. It's not possible to stake more than 26.8M but the "effective" stake could be higher due to coin age.

As for the coins during the hack, I have all of them. I put up both buy and sell walls to ensure that if anyone lost anything, it would be me. I didn't gain or lose any VRC or BTC. I'm not sure how many more times I'll have to answer this, but the only exchange I did anything on was Bittrex and you are free to ask them whether my balance now is the same as before.

Well Patrick I cannot know where you may have answered that question before but as far as I know -and many others- you haven't answered it HERE, on this forum, where the question has been posed a few times. It is still a bit flimsy, if you ask me, what you just answered... You transferred 200k VRC to bittrex to put on SELL orders ONLY. You have not said here -again, to my knowledge- that you put any BUY orders -like you just have said a moment ago-. I didn't think you would have a bunch of BTC hanging around to do that...AND, more importantly, I still FAIL to see what the "stabilizing" point was to have 200k VRC FOR SALE... It just doesn't make any sense. Let me see the picture that you paint in a bit more detail: Youy transferred 200k of YOUR COINS to bittrex and put up several SELL orders with them "becauser you did not wanted anyone but you to lose anything". You are a bright kind and you will see that that makes absolutely no sense at all, right? If anything, your sell orders would take the price down, more or less significantly. Now, since NOW, you claim to have also put some BUY orders in, how many BTC dis you put in play? And at what levels? Because a lot of people were trying to sell indeed... Depending on the amount of BTC -sorry but my understanding is that you are a man of very small financial resources-, BUYING orders would have helped indeed to prop up the price. And, if so, how come you have never mentioned, much less in specific details, until now?

You would understand that I would qualify the "explanation" as "flimsy", right?

I'll tell you what, why don't you just jump right out on your bright pal "socal"'s bandwagon and call me a fudster and you can continua not answering at all or answering selectively, in place and in subject matters?

This is not looking very good Pat, not at all.

Barabbas...down boy, down! Good boy....
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August 10, 2014, 06:32:37 AM
 #12619

http://vrcstake.ticonerd.com/ went trough the roof lol

why is the 24 high at 28M when total coins is only 26M?
i would like to know that too

Yeah the stake is not directly coins. It's a coin weight that includes coinage (time since last earned interest for each coin). It's essentially normalized including coinage and is close to the total coins staking but a bit more complex. Nonetheless this is some historic staking for POS I suspect and is near the realistic maximum. Impressive show of community strength!  Kudos to all you guys! Go VeriCoin!  

Hey Doug, at the end pf the day you are going to have to explain this a whole lot more clearly so EVERYONE can understand because right now, before the end of the day, this is starting to sound suspiciously, very suspiciously, like a whole lot of CRAP.

How can a coin that has a max of less than 26 mill coins, all already mined during the POW stage, has now 28 million coins STAKING? This is preposterous. Everyone knows that there are A LOT of coins still NOT STAKING and lying on the exchanges (I know I have quite a few and they are not staking a single VRC), so how the heck can so many coins be staking? An understandable answer, without ANY bull shit, is required rather immediately, long before the end of the day, ok?

Ok first off these aren't fake numbers (this is not a scam).
Since the dawn of PoS network stake is a weight including coinage. The reason is for fair distribution of staking. If the number of coins is the only factor involved in determining the probability of a node solving a block then the small wallets would hardly ever stake. So this weight is actually the appropriate stake value for fair distribution of the stake.

However it would be much more intuitive to monitor just the number of coins currently staked.  This number is in the code but is not accessible in a function of its own without coinage, because the age determines which coins in a given wallet are actually staking.  In the next wallet Update though I will add this pure total coin staking value as that would be more of an appropriate value to intuitively monitor. Nonetheless the weight is not going to be too much bigger than the total.

What would you consider "too much bigger" Doug? We have had a high of over 28 million just in the past 24 hours and I believe it would be quite safe to assume that at least 6 or more million of the total 26.8 million are deposited currently in the different exchanges, quite probably significantly more than 6 million, so if the maximum REAL number was, for instance, 20 million coins -and I DO NOT believe that many have been staking, not even close-, and the weighted coin age network number surpassed 28 million, you would still think the number would not "be too much bigger"?

And, by the way, you just contradicted Patrick -and the choir boys- making abundantly clear what is even more abundantly obvious: That you can indeed know THE EXACT number of coins staking at any given moment, the REAL number of coins. It would be quite nice if any, at least Patrick, would  acknowledge it, don't you think?

Edit to add: Besides the significant numbers mentioned above, there's the additional consideration of the coins that are actually being transferred at any given moment and that are not staking at all... for instance: If someone buy's X amount of VRC at Bittrex and transfer them to his wallet, they will not be staking until after a period of 8 hours... provided the wallet is OPEN, many more hours/days, if the wallet does open at any other time in the future, so the numbers that we know are really not only "too much bigger" but I'd venture to say "staggeringly too much bigger" indeed.
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August 10, 2014, 06:41:09 AM
 #12620

http://vrcstake.ticonerd.com/ went trough the roof lol

why is the 24 high at 28M when total coins is only 26M?
i would like to know that too

Yeah the stake is not directly coins. It's a coin weight that includes coinage (time since last earned interest for each coin). It's essentially normalized including coinage and is close to the total coins staking but a bit more complex. Nonetheless this is some historic staking for POS I suspect and is near the realistic maximum. Impressive show of community strength!  Kudos to all you guys! Go VeriCoin!  

Hey Doug, at the end pf the day you are going to have to explain this a whole lot more clearly so EVERYONE can understand because right now, before the end of the day, this is starting to sound suspiciously, very suspiciously, like a whole lot of CRAP.

How can a coin that has a max of less than 26 mill coins, all already mined during the POW stage, has now 28 million coins STAKING? This is preposterous. Everyone knows that there are A LOT of coins still NOT STAKING and lying on the exchanges (I know I have quite a few and they are not staking a single VRC), so how the heck can so many coins be staking? An understandable answer, without ANY bull shit, is required rather immediately, long before the end of the day, ok?

Ok first off these aren't fake numbers (this is not a scam).
Since the dawn of PoS network stake is a weight including coinage. The reason is for fair distribution of staking. If the number of coins is the only factor involved in determining the probability of a node solving a block then the small wallets would hardly ever stake. So this weight is actually the appropriate stake value for fair distribution of the stake.

However it would be much more intuitive to monitor just the number of coins currently staked.  This number is in the code but is not accessible in a function of its own without coinage, because the age determines which coins in a given wallet are actually staking.  In the next wallet Update though I will add this pure total coin staking value as that would be more of an appropriate value to intuitively monitor. Nonetheless the weight is not going to be too much bigger than the total.

What would you consider "too much bigger" Doug? We have had a high of over 28 million just in the past 24 hours and I believe it would be quite safe to assume that at least 6 or more million of the total 26.8 million are deposited currently in the different exchanges, quite probably significantly more than 6 million, so if the maximum REAL number was, for instance, 20 million coins -and I DO NOT believe that many have been staking, not even close-, and the weighted coin age network number surpassed 28 million, you would still think the number would not "be too much bigger"?

And, by the way, you just contradicted Patrick -and the choir boys- making abundantly clear what is even more abundantly obvious: That you can indeed know THE EXACT number of coins staking at any given moment, the REAL number of coins. It would be quite nice if any, at least Patrick, would  acknowledge it, don't you think?

What Pat meant was it's not possible to pull out that number without editing code.  In the current wallet it's not possible.  By not too much I mean it's relatively attributable to the coin amount give or take some percentage for age. For instance in stake dips  it's quite likely that the number drops below the potentially stakable coin due to young age.  It would however be clearer to just have the raw number of coins to monitor as well.
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