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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1348518 times)
barabbas
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August 10, 2014, 06:57:15 PM
 #12661

[...]Perspective: A max of 28+ "coins" were staking yesterday at some point. Historical maximum. Now, since the total coins in existence were 26.8 mill, we have found there are somewhat "ghost", "fake", whatever "coins" that appear in that tracking tool that don't really exist (I am still struggling with how those appear and, more worrysome, DO stake)[...]

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. There are no fake numbers, unless you count the ones that you fabricated in your post while attempting to make some point. The stake weight number, which factors in both the quantity AND age of the coins in a block, is a valid number and it's a crucial part of the PoS system.

The crux of the matter is the fact that, while the sum total of the stake weight for every block that's staking is useful for getting a relative feel for how many coins are staking, it can obviously be a misleading number. It would make more sense to the end user for the wallet to display the actual number of coins staking, but as pnosker stated and effects elaborated upon, there is currently no function in place to display that number.

So what should we do? Should we ignorantly shout, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!!" and allude to suspicious behavior on the part of the devs? Or should we perhaps try to understand what that number actually represents and/or ask the devs if they can provide us with a different number that is a more accurate representation of the number of coins staking? I vote for the later.

It sounds like this feature can be added and that effects actually intends to add it to a future build. Let's not beat a dead horse.

Well it is not an easy thing to understand... especially if if it not put bin the proper perspective, so there's no beating any dead horse, it is, in fact, a very alive horse no matter how you choose to look at it. And pretending that this is making a mountain out of a mole hill is NOT, definitely, the proper perspective. Whatever this is, is something neither Patrick nor Doug quite understand, which in itself is very worrysome. I think we all agree that it is an immediate need to have a wallet that tells us how many REAL coins are staking at any and all times, that doesn't need repeating and should be implemented as a very top, top priority.

The real worrysome part, though is the "not too much bigger number". Again, it is a hugely bigger number in fact and, so far, we have no idea how such a huge number staking is not going to produce an inflation way superior to 2.5% annually. That is a MAJOR concern, not a mole hill. And, quite frankly, I don't believe the devs actually know how that network weighted stake is going to en up affecting the actual number of coins produced. We, the average investors, certainly do not. You are probably not an average investor and maybe you do know how 28+ million coins staking are going to produce less than 2.5% interest in half that amount of coins. If you do, I'd appreciate enormously that you explain it to me and to all here in layman's terms more or less. To me if 10 million coins stake for a year, the maximum number of new coins produced would be 250k. Now if those same 10 million are indeed REALLY staking, but the phantom figure is 20 million instead, the resulting amount of coin s produced at the end of the year would be 500k instead, thus resulting in a 5% inflation instead of the 2.5%.

I'm sure I'm making my rudimentary calculations erroneously, but I am equally sure you, the devs and other gifted mathematicians can clear fast and easily my error and set me on the right track within seconds. I'll be waiting.
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tazmania
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August 10, 2014, 07:06:13 PM
 #12662

Do people still use http://vrcstake.ticonerd.com/ as an accurate source of information?

24hr high (%105.16)

28,194,512.391

Total Coins

26,812,034.002


                                                                               
                
                                                       ╓▄▌██P                  
                                                 ╔▄▌███▀███▌                   
                                           ▄▄▌██▀▀╚  ╓██╩██                    
                                     ▄▄███▀▀╙      ▄██  ▓█                     
                               ▄▌███▀▀+          ▄█▀   ▐█                      
                        ,▄▌███▀▀¬              ▓█▀     █▄                      
                  ,▄▌███▀▀                  ,██▀      █▌                       
               '█████▌▄▄,                 ╓██╩       ██                        
                  ▀██▌▐▀▀▀█████▌▌▄▄╓    ▄██¬        ▄█                         
                     ▀██▄        ╚▀▀▀████          ▐█═                         
                        ▀██▄        ▓█▀██          █▀                          
                           ▀██▄  ,██▀   █µ        ██                           
                              ▀███Z     ██       ██                            
                                ▐██     ▐█      ▄█                             
                              ,,╓╓█▓▄▌   █▌    ▐█U                             
                        º▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓███   ▀█    █▌                              
                          ▀█▓▓▓▓▓████▀█▌  █▌  ██                               
                            ▀███████▌  ▀█µ▀█ ██                                
                              ▀█████     ███▓█                                 
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                                            ▀                             

pnosker
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August 10, 2014, 07:19:11 PM
 #12663

[...]Perspective: A max of 28+ "coins" were staking yesterday at some point. Historical maximum. Now, since the total coins in existence were 26.8 mill, we have found there are somewhat "ghost", "fake", whatever "coins" that appear in that tracking tool that don't really exist (I am still struggling with how those appear and, more worrysome, DO stake)[...]

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. There are no fake numbers, unless you count the ones that you fabricated in your post while attempting to make some point. The stake weight number, which factors in both the quantity AND age of the coins in a block, is a valid number and it's a crucial part of the PoS system.

The crux of the matter is the fact that, while the sum total of the stake weight for every block that's staking is useful for getting a relative feel for how many coins are staking, it can obviously be a misleading number. It would make more sense to the end user for the wallet to display the actual number of coins staking, but as pnosker stated and effects elaborated upon, there is currently no function in place to display that number.

So what should we do? Should we ignorantly shout, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!!" and allude to suspicious behavior on the part of the devs? Or should we perhaps try to understand what that number actually represents and/or ask the devs if they can provide us with a different number that is a more accurate representation of the number of coins staking? I vote for the later.

It sounds like this feature can be added and that effects actually intends to add it to a future build. Let's not beat a dead horse.

Well it is not an easy thing to understand... especially if if it not put bin the proper perspective, so there's no beating any dead horse, it is, in fact, a very alive horse no matter how you choose to look at it. And pretending that this is making a mountain out of a mole hill is NOT, definitely, the proper perspective. Whatever this is, is something neither Patrick nor Doug quite understand, which in itself is very worrysome. I think we all agree that it is an immediate need to have a wallet that tells us how many REAL coins are staking at any and all times, that doesn't need repeating and should be implemented as a very top, top priority.

The real worrysome part, though is the "not too much bigger number". Again, it is a hugely bigger number in fact and, so far, we have no idea how such a huge number staking is not going to produce an inflation way superior to 2.5% annually. That is a MAJOR concern, not a mole hill. And, quite frankly, I don't believe the devs actually know how that network weighted stake is going to en up affecting the actual number of coins produced. We, the average investors, certainly do not. You are probably not an average investor and maybe you do know how 28+ million coins staking are going to produce less than 2.5% interest in half that amount of coins. If you do, I'd appreciate enormously that you explain it to me and to all here in layman's terms more or less. To me if 10 million coins stake for a year, the maximum number of new coins produced would be 250k. Now if those same 10 million are indeed REALLY staking, but the phantom figure is 20 million instead, the resulting amount of coin s produced at the end of the year would be 500k instead, thus resulting in a 5% inflation instead of the 2.5%.

I'm sure I'm making my rudimentary calculations erroneously, but I am equally sure you, the devs and other gifted mathematicians can clear fast and easily my error and set me on the right track within seconds. I'll be waiting.

I'm not sure how many times we can say this, but no, there's no "hugely bigger number" of staked coins vs coins. There can never be more than the coin count staked at once. The weight of some of the coins can be slightly higher, say 10% higher, for example. But in no way is this hugely bigger and it's simply how staking works. Every PoS coin has this. I'm not sure where you get your 10M-250k vs 20M number, but that's not possible. The interest rate is the interest rate is the interest rate. There's no fake coins or pseudo coins hovering around. The rate is slightly higher than the real coin count right now because some of those coins weren't staking before and now are so they are gaining the interest from when they were last spent, resetting their coin age.

Imagine this scenario:

You have 1000 VRC, continuously staking. They stake 1095 times a year roughly (365*8 hrs compounded) and earn 1/1095*0.023 (2.3% interest) or 0.0109785203 VRC per stake.
Your friend has 1000 VRC, staking for the first time in 1 month. That means they earn 30*8/1095*0.023 (30 days * 8 hr cycles at 2.3% interest) or 5.04109589 VRC per stake.

For that time when the 1000 VRC staked for the first time in a month is staking, they are earning that month's worth of interest and making the net stake weight slightly higher until their stake is complete.

This is how staking works. This is why the network stake weight is inflated beyond the coin count right now because some coins are staking often due to not having a large coin age. No other PoS coin has ever gone above the total coin count in my memory so nobody has ever noticed this phenomenon before.

But either way, no interest is being earned beyond the ~1.5-2.5% per year. You are full of silliness claiming that there's a "hugely bigger number" of coins staking.

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August 10, 2014, 07:24:10 PM
 #12664

[...]And pretending that this is making a mountain out of a mole hill is NOT, definitely, the proper perspective.

But you clearly are making a mountain out of a mole hill, it's just that your own ignorance is preventing you from seeing this.

Whatever this is, is something neither Patrick nor Doug quite understand, which in itself is very worrysome.

What is it that you think they don't understand?

To me if 10 million coins stake for a year, the maximum number of new coins produced would be 250k. Now if those same 10 million are indeed REALLY staking, but the phantom figure is 20 million instead, the resulting amount of coin s produced at the end of the year would be 500k instead, thus resulting in a 5% inflation instead of the 2.5%.

There is no phantom number. If 10 million coins are staking, the interest will be based off of 10 million. The Stake Weight is not factored into the interest rate calculations; it is used to determine WHEN a block of coins will stake. The higher the number, the more likely it is that the block will stake. The Stake Weight of a block starts out equal to the number of coins in the block and grows as the coins age/mature; when a block is done staking, the stake weight is effectively reset. I'd tell you how this happens, but you'll likely go into a panic over it and start a whole new series of text walls.

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barabbas
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August 10, 2014, 07:48:01 PM
 #12665

[...]Perspective: A max of 28+ "coins" were staking yesterday at some point. Historical maximum. Now, since the total coins in existence were 26.8 mill, we have found there are somewhat "ghost", "fake", whatever "coins" that appear in that tracking tool that don't really exist (I am still struggling with how those appear and, more worrysome, DO stake)[...]

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. There are no fake numbers, unless you count the ones that you fabricated in your post while attempting to make some point. The stake weight number, which factors in both the quantity AND age of the coins in a block, is a valid number and it's a crucial part of the PoS system.

The crux of the matter is the fact that, while the sum total of the stake weight for every block that's staking is useful for getting a relative feel for how many coins are staking, it can obviously be a misleading number. It would make more sense to the end user for the wallet to display the actual number of coins staking, but as pnosker stated and effects elaborated upon, there is currently no function in place to display that number.

So what should we do? Should we ignorantly shout, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!!" and allude to suspicious behavior on the part of the devs? Or should we perhaps try to understand what that number actually represents and/or ask the devs if they can provide us with a different number that is a more accurate representation of the number of coins staking? I vote for the later.

It sounds like this feature can be added and that effects actually intends to add it to a future build. Let's not beat a dead horse.

Well it is not an easy thing to understand... especially if if it not put bin the proper perspective, so there's no beating any dead horse, it is, in fact, a very alive horse no matter how you choose to look at it. And pretending that this is making a mountain out of a mole hill is NOT, definitely, the proper perspective. Whatever this is, is something neither Patrick nor Doug quite understand, which in itself is very worrysome. I think we all agree that it is an immediate need to have a wallet that tells us how many REAL coins are staking at any and all times, that doesn't need repeating and should be implemented as a very top, top priority.

The real worrysome part, though is the "not too much bigger number". Again, it is a hugely bigger number in fact and, so far, we have no idea how such a huge number staking is not going to produce an inflation way superior to 2.5% annually. That is a MAJOR concern, not a mole hill. And, quite frankly, I don't believe the devs actually know how that network weighted stake is going to en up affecting the actual number of coins produced. We, the average investors, certainly do not. You are probably not an average investor and maybe you do know how 28+ million coins staking are going to produce less than 2.5% interest in half that amount of coins. If you do, I'd appreciate enormously that you explain it to me and to all here in layman's terms more or less. To me if 10 million coins stake for a year, the maximum number of new coins produced would be 250k. Now if those same 10 million are indeed REALLY staking, but the phantom figure is 20 million instead, the resulting amount of coin s produced at the end of the year would be 500k instead, thus resulting in a 5% inflation instead of the 2.5%.

I'm sure I'm making my rudimentary calculations erroneously, but I am equally sure you, the devs and other gifted mathematicians can clear fast and easily my error and set me on the right track within seconds. I'll be waiting.

I'm not sure how many times we can say this, but no, there's no "hugely bigger number" of staked coins vs coins. There can never be more than the coin count staked at once. The weight of some of the coins can be slightly higher, say 10% higher, for example. But in no way is this hugely bigger and it's simply how staking works. Every PoS coin has this. I'm not sure where you get your 10M-250k vs 20M number, but that's not possible. The interest rate is the interest rate is the interest rate. There's no fake coins or pseudo coins hovering around. The rate is slightly higher than the real coin count right now because some of those coins weren't staking before and now are so they are gaining the interest from when they were last spent, resetting their coin age.

Imagine this scenario:

You have 1000 VRC, continuously staking. They stake 1095 times a year roughly (365*8 hrs compounded) and earn 1/1095*0.023 (2.3% interest) or 0.0109785203 VRC per stake.
Your friend has 1000 VRC, staking for the first time in 1 month. That means they earn 30*8/1095*0.023 (30 days * 8 hr cycles at 2.3% interest) or 5.04109589 VRC per stake.

For that time when the 1000 VRC staked for the first time in a month is staking, they are earning that month's worth of interest and making the net stake weight slightly higher until their stake is complete.

This is how staking works. This is why the network stake weight is inflated beyond the coin count right now because some coins are staking often due to not having a large coin age. No other PoS coin has ever gone above the total coin count in my memory so nobody has ever noticed this phenomenon before.

But either way, no interest is being earned beyond the ~1.5-2.5% per year. You are full of silliness claiming that there's a "hugely bigger number" of coins staking.

No no no Patrick, you simply refuse to acknowledge the reality here. There's no "silliness" in claiming that maybe as much as DOUBLE the real amount of coins staking is actually staking. Thank you for your attempt at explaining this but no, sorry, you are WRONG. The 28+ million figure is the weighted amount staking, right? My claim -far from silly- is that probably only HALF of that amount ion REAL coins is actually sitting in open wallets, while the rest is either in pre-staking situation or, in most major amount, simply sitting in the exchanges, NOT staking at all. So we are not talking a "10% higher". We are talking much, much, MUUUUUCH higher than 10%.

Now, if EVEN 10% is higher indeed, how does that additional staking not influence the inflation level? how is "no interest is being earned beyond the ~1.5-2.5% per year" possible if the staking "coins", in HUGELY BIGGER NUMBERS than the real coins, are staking and therefore producing new coins? Let's provide an scenario where the average number of phantom coins during the year is 30 million, while the real amount of coins is 27 million. If the interest produced is 2.5% we will end up the year with 750k more new VRCs, right? That would be 2.77777% of the TOTAL real coins (those that staked and those that did not). Now, assuming the REAL amount of coins that staked, averaged let's say 18 million, we will find that those coins got 4.17% instead of the maximum of 2.5%. And that is, obviously, not even counting the staking of those coins staked along the way themselves... where's my math wrong in this scenario?

I'll tell you what, right now, you know, positively, the exact number of coins that are in the exchanges, NOT staking. You should have them all at the top of the rich list -very easy to know which ones are bittrex, cryptsy and mintpal, the most significant. How many millions are now there. Those are NOT staking at all. Deduct them from the 28 million and you will see immediately that the figure is far from 10% and most definitely can't be called "not too much bigger". And that doesn't include, of course, those coins waiting to stake in the different wallets that have not reached the 8 hours threshold maturity. What exactly is the "silliness"??

About the "phenomenon" I will investigate if it does happen in other coins. It is not difficult when there are so many coins with much less than 27 million coins total so I'll make sure to bring back some preliminary results of my investigation asap.
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August 10, 2014, 08:03:56 PM
 #12666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYabrQrXt4A
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August 10, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
 #12667

[...]Perspective: A max of 28+ "coins" were staking yesterday at some point. Historical maximum. Now, since the total coins in existence were 26.8 mill, we have found there are somewhat "ghost", "fake", whatever "coins" that appear in that tracking tool that don't really exist (I am still struggling with how those appear and, more worrysome, DO stake)[...]

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. There are no fake numbers, unless you count the ones that you fabricated in your post while attempting to make some point. The stake weight number, which factors in both the quantity AND age of the coins in a block, is a valid number and it's a crucial part of the PoS system.

The crux of the matter is the fact that, while the sum total of the stake weight for every block that's staking is useful for getting a relative feel for how many coins are staking, it can obviously be a misleading number. It would make more sense to the end user for the wallet to display the actual number of coins staking, but as pnosker stated and effects elaborated upon, there is currently no function in place to display that number.

So what should we do? Should we ignorantly shout, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!!" and allude to suspicious behavior on the part of the devs? Or should we perhaps try to understand what that number actually represents and/or ask the devs if they can provide us with a different number that is a more accurate representation of the number of coins staking? I vote for the later.

It sounds like this feature can be added and that effects actually intends to add it to a future build. Let's not beat a dead horse.

Well it is not an easy thing to understand... especially if if it not put bin the proper perspective, so there's no beating any dead horse, it is, in fact, a very alive horse no matter how you choose to look at it. And pretending that this is making a mountain out of a mole hill is NOT, definitely, the proper perspective. Whatever this is, is something neither Patrick nor Doug quite understand, which in itself is very worrysome. I think we all agree that it is an immediate need to have a wallet that tells us how many REAL coins are staking at any and all times, that doesn't need repeating and should be implemented as a very top, top priority.

The real worrysome part, though is the "not too much bigger number". Again, it is a hugely bigger number in fact and, so far, we have no idea how such a huge number staking is not going to produce an inflation way superior to 2.5% annually. That is a MAJOR concern, not a mole hill. And, quite frankly, I don't believe the devs actually know how that network weighted stake is going to en up affecting the actual number of coins produced. We, the average investors, certainly do not. You are probably not an average investor and maybe you do know how 28+ million coins staking are going to produce less than 2.5% interest in half that amount of coins. If you do, I'd appreciate enormously that you explain it to me and to all here in layman's terms more or less. To me if 10 million coins stake for a year, the maximum number of new coins produced would be 250k. Now if those same 10 million are indeed REALLY staking, but the phantom figure is 20 million instead, the resulting amount of coin s produced at the end of the year would be 500k instead, thus resulting in a 5% inflation instead of the 2.5%.

I'm sure I'm making my rudimentary calculations erroneously, but I am equally sure you, the devs and other gifted mathematicians can clear fast and easily my error and set me on the right track within seconds. I'll be waiting.

I'm not sure how many times we can say this, but no, there's no "hugely bigger number" of staked coins vs coins. There can never be more than the coin count staked at once. The weight of some of the coins can be slightly higher, say 10% higher, for example. But in no way is this hugely bigger and it's simply how staking works. Every PoS coin has this. I'm not sure where you get your 10M-250k vs 20M number, but that's not possible. The interest rate is the interest rate is the interest rate. There's no fake coins or pseudo coins hovering around. The rate is slightly higher than the real coin count right now because some of those coins weren't staking before and now are so they are gaining the interest from when they were last spent, resetting their coin age.

Imagine this scenario:

You have 1000 VRC, continuously staking. They stake 1095 times a year roughly (365*8 hrs compounded) and earn 1/1095*0.023 (2.3% interest) or 0.0109785203 VRC per stake.
Your friend has 1000 VRC, staking for the first time in 1 month. That means they earn 30*8/1095*0.023 (30 days * 8 hr cycles at 2.3% interest) or 5.04109589 VRC per stake.

For that time when the 1000 VRC staked for the first time in a month is staking, they are earning that month's worth of interest and making the net stake weight slightly higher until their stake is complete.

This is how staking works. This is why the network stake weight is inflated beyond the coin count right now because some coins are staking often due to not having a large coin age. No other PoS coin has ever gone above the total coin count in my memory so nobody has ever noticed this phenomenon before.

But either way, no interest is being earned beyond the ~1.5-2.5% per year. You are full of silliness claiming that there's a "hugely bigger number" of coins staking.

No no no Patrick, you simply refuse to acknowledge the reality here. There's no "silliness" in claiming that maybe as much as DOUBLE the real amount of coins staking is actually staking. Thank you for your attempt at explaining this but no, sorry, you are WRONG. The 28+ million figure is the weighted amount staking, right? My claim -far from silly- is that probably only HALF of that amount ion REAL coins is actually sitting in open wallets, while the rest is either in pre-staking situation or, in most major amount, simply sitting in the exchanges, NOT staking at all. So we are not talking a "10% higher". We are talking much, much, MUUUUUCH higher than 10%.

Now, if EVEN 10% is higher indeed, how does that additional staking not influence the inflation level? how is "no interest is being earned beyond the ~1.5-2.5% per year" possible if the staking "coins", in HUGELY BIGGER NUMBERS than the real coins, are staking and therefore producing new coins? Let's provide an scenario where the average number of phantom coins during the year is 30 million, while the real amount of coins is 27 million. If the interest produced is 2.5% we will end up the year with 750k more new VRCs, right? That would be 2.77777% of the TOTAL real coins (those that staked and those that did not). Now, assuming the REAL amount of coins that staked, averaged let's say 18 million, we will find that those coins got 4.17% instead of the maximum of 2.5%. And that is, obviously, not even counting the staking of those coins staked along the way themselves... where's my math wrong in this scenario?

I'll tell you what, right now, you know, positively, the exact number of coins that are in the exchanges, NOT staking. You should have them all at the top of the rich list -very easy to know which ones are bittrex, cryptsy and mintpal, the most significant. How many millions are now there. Those are NOT staking at all. Deduct them from the 28 million and you will see immediately that the figure is far from 10% and most definitely can't be called "not too much bigger". And that doesn't include, of course, those coins waiting to stake in the different wallets that have not reached the 8 hours threshold maturity. What exactly is the "silliness"??

About the "phenomenon" I will investigate if it does happen in other coins. It is not difficult when there are so many coins with much less than 27 million coins total so I'll make sure to bring back some preliminary results of my investigation asap.

You are just so wrong. The network stake weight is not the amount of coins * the interest rate. The real coins * interest rate = the inflation. The network stake weight is simply a weight to define how much interest rate is granted.

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MAD945
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August 10, 2014, 08:09:19 PM
 #12668


That is exactly how I picture Barabbass typing behind his computer monitor!

lol Grin
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August 10, 2014, 08:12:22 PM
 #12669

Oh and I retract my previous statement about Barabbas being "Highly intelligent"

He's gone full Retard here...

Sorry Barb, your math doesn't add up! You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how POS coins work. Can someone try and draw out a diagram or something for him because he's struggling here...
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August 10, 2014, 08:24:12 PM
 #12670


That is exactly how I picture Barabbass typing behind his computer monitor!

lol Grin

ROFL oh soooo awesome, VRC FTW
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August 10, 2014, 08:33:38 PM
 #12671

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Now everyone is beginning to see the truth, but don't take this "not-to-smart choir boy" with "tin foil's" word just look at the asinine comments....... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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August 10, 2014, 08:36:09 PM
 #12672

What...the...fuck?
The amount of times I've seen "how can the stake amount possibly be above the coin amount" along with the thorough answers to the question, yet people still don't understand? I realize why I never get involved with this forum, too many vacuous people.
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August 10, 2014, 08:39:10 PM
 #12673

What...the...fuck?
The amount of times I've seen "how can the stake amount possibly be above the coin amount" along with the thorough answers to the question, yet people still don't understand? I realize why I never get involved with this forum, too many vacuous people.


+10000

In a related note for a more constructive experience join either the IRC chan or Veritalk.info
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August 10, 2014, 09:27:17 PM
 #12674

IT'S TIME FOR A DECENTRALIZED EXCHNAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

MAD945
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August 10, 2014, 09:29:03 PM
 #12675

I FEEL SO BAD FOR THE DEVS HERE...

Patrick, not ALL Vericoin investors are complete idiots who feel the need to become a victim because they are now bagholding.  Some people here probably can't even see their own dick beneath their belly, let alone 6 months from now and the hard work that will be done.

Zach

These Devs defiantly take a beating from a lot of naysayers and have personal attacks thrown at them...every time they come out with a professional calm response to even the most idiotic statements and accusations.

Professional threw and threw...and that is why I support this coin Cool  
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August 10, 2014, 10:15:28 PM
 #12676

it has to triple in value to reach what it was before in value..
i bet a LOT of guys have lost a LOT of money so far..

it will rebound, don't you worry

why? because

-summertime  Grin
-because TA voodoo tells so  Cheesy
-altcryptos are serious business and not about catching the next pump  Roll Eyes
-because "insert name of coin you baghold" will be the next crypto messiah   Tongue
-other stupid arguments to keep them bagholders bagholding. or buying more (how evil)

I like this guy.

VRC VPJRmAv8oMVRDas1G4LTU6swBpAsWu5x2Y
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August 10, 2014, 10:46:43 PM
 #12677

The level of idiocy that purported humans are capable of, in some cases, never ceases to amaze me. And when you put it together with blind greed so prevalent here, we are talking stratospheric idiocy.

And, of course, no answer to the very relevant question. What the hell does it matter when all you care about is the price rebounding... or pretending you are here for the long run no matter what.

And if you are a guy from Valencia somehow astonishingly convinced he is somewhat intelligent, the shit reaches proportions intergalactic, really.

Hey, to each his own. If you don't care that 15 million coins are really staking while credit is given to 28 million instead, the only thing I can do is demand answers, THE REAL KIND. Either way, no one can achieve that total idiots will somehow develop a brain.
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August 10, 2014, 10:59:32 PM
 #12678

I FEEL SO BAD FOR THE DEVS HERE...

Patrick, not ALL Vericoin investors are complete idiots who feel the need to become a victim because they are now bagholding.  Some people here probably can't even see their own dick beneath their belly, let alone 6 months from now and the hard work that will be done.

Zach

These Devs defiantly take a beating from a lot of naysayers and have personal attacks thrown at them...every time they come out with a professional calm response to even the most idiotic statements and accusations.

Professional threw and threw...and that is why I support this coin Cool  

I take that you mean "through and through" instead...

I don't know, or care, if you are pretending now that I am a "naysayer" or that I throw "personal attacks" on the devs. Either case would be wrong for I have been, by far the first and most outspoken in praising them coming out of anonymity and setting a new standard in crypto. But, you know, Patric is more on the fatty side, regardless of my appreciation, Doug repeats "at the end of the day" way too many times in public and dev3 looks the picture perfect of the nerd that never gets laid. You think that is personal attacks or just a personal appreciation of the obvious? Also, from where I am standing, they are three nice kids playing a game of adults, full of youthful arrogance, so far incapable of admitting they have made mistakes -and they have- and making that some people -like you- will believe and put their money behind those beliefs- that they are "professionals" when, in fact, they have a hobby called VRC and they are professionals at nothing (they are students), except for dev3 of course that, until new layoffs come at least, still makes a living off or working at Microsoft, so, even more than for the other two, VRC is just a side hobby, nothing else. And that is a reality way beyond whatever you make your mind believe, through and through.
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August 10, 2014, 11:31:01 PM
 #12679

But, you know, Patric is more on the fatty side, regardless of my appreciation, Doug repeats "at the end of the day" way too many times in public and dev3 looks the picture perfect of the nerd that never gets laid. You think that is personal attacks or just a personal appreciation of the obvious? Also, from where I am standing, they are three nice kids playing a game of adults, full of youthful arrogance, so far incapable of admitting they have made mistakes -and they have- and making that some people -like you- will believe and put their money behind those beliefs- that they are "professionals" when, in fact, they have a hobby called VRC and they are professionals at nothing (they are students), except for dev3 of course that, until new layoffs come at least, still makes a living off or working at Microsoft, so, even more than for the other two, VRC is just a side hobby, nothing else. And that is a reality way beyond whatever you make your mind believe, through and through.

I'm just glad you aren't attracted to me as you are with Socal.

The level of idiocy that purported humans are capable of, in some cases, never ceases to amaze me. And when you put it together with blind greed so prevalent here, we are talking stratospheric idiocy.

And, of course, no answer to the very relevant question. What the hell does it matter when all you care about is the price rebounding... or pretending you are here for the long run no matter what.

And if you are a guy from Valencia somehow astonishingly convinced he is somewhat intelligent, the shit reaches proportions intergalactic, really.

Hey, to each his own. If you don't care that 15 million coins are really staking while credit is given to 28 million instead, the only thing I can do is demand answers, THE REAL KIND. Either way, no one can achieve that total idiots will somehow develop a brain.

There are not only 15 M coins staking, likely closer to 20-22 M. And I did answer your question. Several times. It's not my fault you didn't go to a top 24 university and can't understand simple explanations.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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August 10, 2014, 11:38:53 PM
 #12680

But, you know, Patric is more on the fatty side, regardless of my appreciation, Doug repeats "at the end of the day" way too many times in public and dev3 looks the picture perfect of the nerd that never gets laid. You think that is personal attacks or just a personal appreciation of the obvious? Also, from where I am standing, they are three nice kids playing a game of adults, full of youthful arrogance, so far incapable of admitting they have made mistakes -and they have- and making that some people -like you- will believe and put their money behind those beliefs- that they are "professionals" when, in fact, they have a hobby called VRC and they are professionals at nothing (they are students), except for dev3 of course that, until new layoffs come at least, still makes a living off or working at Microsoft, so, even more than for the other two, VRC is just a side hobby, nothing else. And that is a reality way beyond whatever you make your mind believe, through and through.

I'm just glad you aren't attracted to me as you are with Socal.

The level of idiocy that purported humans are capable of, in some cases, never ceases to amaze me. And when you put it together with blind greed so prevalent here, we are talking stratospheric idiocy.

And, of course, no answer to the very relevant question. What the hell does it matter when all you care about is the price rebounding... or pretending you are here for the long run no matter what.

And if you are a guy from Valencia somehow astonishingly convinced he is somewhat intelligent, the shit reaches proportions intergalactic, really.

Hey, to each his own. If you don't care that 15 million coins are really staking while credit is given to 28 million instead, the only thing I can do is demand answers, THE REAL KIND. Either way, no one can achieve that total idiots will somehow develop a brain.

There are not only 15 M coins staking, likely closer to 20-22 M. And I did answer your question. Several times. It's not my fault you didn't go to a top 24 university and can't understand simple explanations.



CAN'T.....STOP.....LAUGHING!!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

He really does seem to have a thing for me doesn't he?

and now you are learning what I already knew, this dude is so pathetically insecure that he lashes out at anyone that calls him out on his BS, and since you guys did he is now trying to defame you. God I hope this guy can finally catch the hint that nobody here listens to what he says and with each post he makes just reinforces his complete lack of credibility.
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