[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[eiskalt]

Exactly and by hardforking the system shows, that it cannot be exploited.
The system of laissez-faire, that you are dreaming of will always be exploited - even if you meet your peers on the street to exchange some coins, what will you do, if they bring a knife to trade with you?

It shows that there are no consequences for the people that made this possible.
Which is why it will happen again.
Mintpal will carry on.
People will still daytrade and leave massive amounts of coin on exchanges.
No solution will be sought because look "we solved the problem.. all you need is a fork!"
The thieves have not lost anything. They did not have anything to start with.

Forking is not the solution. It is a a bandaid on cancer.
It is scooping out water from a sinking ship instead of fixing the hole in the hull.

P.S buy4crypto: if you believe fiat is necessary for the future, then I think we will have to agree to disagree

You do not get the point: The people that orchestrated this were the thieves and they will learn that they cannot exploit the system.

Again you are punishing victims and applauding the thieves.

You are either brainwashed by the scammers´ forum cheerleaders or you are a scammer yourself.

[buy4crypto]

Exactly and by hardforking the system shows, that it cannot be exploited.
The system of laissez-faire, that you are dreaming of will always be exploited - even if you meet your peers on the street to exchange some coins, what will you do, if they bring a knife to trade with you?

It shows that there are no consequences for the people that made this possible.
Which is why it will happen again.
Mintpal will carry on.
People will still daytrade and leave massive amounts of coin on exchanges.
No solution will be sought because look "we solved the problem.. all you need is a fork!"
The thieves have not lost anything. They did not have anything to start with.

Forking is not the solution. It is a a bandaid on cancer.
It is scooping out water from a sinking ship instead of fixing the hole in the hull.

P.S buy4crypto: if you believe fiat is necessary for the future, then I think we will have to agree to disagree

I think having all money tied to the power grid is scarier than centralized currencies.

1 comet comes and knocks the grid offline, how many 51% attacks you think could occur?

I prefer having a system where you have the ability to use both.

Im not talking today, or tomorrow, but if its the future, it would happen at some point. Surely a pure online currency reliant on a power grid system of trade is not the way.

You think your USD/fiat will be worth anything in an apocalyptic future hit by a comet leaving us without electricity?
I don't believe the zombies will accept them either.

I have silver and gold, don't be so nieve. I use fiat to buy things, as people like to have that these days over me bringing them a brick of silver. You know, the market is full of people that like dollars.

[leckey]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

[GridWorker]

I have silver and gold, don't be so nieve. I use fiat to buy things, as people like to have that these days over me bringing them a brick of silver. You know, the market is full of people that like dollars.

LoL! Other dude is still in D&D mode!

We've seen time and time again devs disappear when trouble arises for their coin.  

This is what the critics have expressed so vehemently that they would do. They really despise accountability.

[buy4crypto]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

The only thing to blame here is the speed of innovation on vericoin teams behalf.

We caught some nasty hackers attention recently. Look back for weeks the BC trolls have been here promoting all the crap they got going on. You don't think those tech nerds are freaking out right now about vericoin taking over everything bitcoin can't?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687488.0

Bitcoin had 184 billion coins made by an attacker. Where is bitcoin today?

We have yet to see a solution to this, we will know very soon what the devs do to solve this problem and move forward. With all the new investors that heard about vericoin for the first time it will likely grow way bigger than when this whole ordeal started.

[eiskalt]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft. 

[mushroomfour9]

what happens to vrc  after the hard fork  I've got some vrc  on mintpal

[Dadams]

As much as I've been a supporter of VeriCoin... a fork to roll back the blockchain is a very tough pill to swallow. Have to say I'm with dadams.

At this early stage, 2 months into a crypto, you think its so devastating?

You dont think the media picks this up as a better alternative to a gox style blow out? You dont think this will attract the people VeriCoin is going for?

This could be the biggest FUD turned pot of GOLD if they get this right. The dev team spent all day making the fix, I bet you it shows the quality of our team at work.

I wonder how many people offered support to the devs and how many came to FUD the community.

Its very telling what crypto has become, instead of bringing in new markets, everyone has a laser focus on taking down the competition. Wake up people, crypto needs more investors and people in the ecosystem.

How many times have you heard of mt gox. How many times do you think you will hear about VeriCoin, and to the outside world, not comprised of coders and computer nerds... They will start coming to vericoin over bitcoin as they will see vericoin as the SAFE alternative to bitcoin and being goxed.

Let me put this out there. I don't give a shit what the media thinks. I don't give a shit if coinx or coiny did it before. If you think I'm fudding, you're mistaken.

I care purely because of the reasons I got into crypto in the first place. For a decentralised system.

I don't blame the devs for taking this decision, because I can see the logic in it - and I recognise they're under huge amounts of pressure. But I can't pretend to be thrilled about it.

Ultimately yes it's Mintpal's fault. But do you know else I blame? You. All of you. The number one rule in bitcoin: "DON'T KEEP YOUR COINS ON AN EXCHANGE". This doubly applies to PoS coins because having them staking in your wallet secures the network. So. If you held your coins on MintPal. YOU'RE TO BLAME FOR TRUSTING A CENTRALISED AUTHORITY.

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

This is exactly the problem...
thank you for illustrating.

Lots of people trust central authority with money.
Central authority fails.
People learn: don't trust central authority.

Now we have a situation where central authority gets bailed out.
Now people think: oh, it is safe to trust central authority! We will get bailed out if they mess up!
People put more money into central authority.
Central authority fails.
Bail out.

Where does this end?
Can you see the problem with this picture?
How long do you think this can continue?
How can this ever be used for currency if you never know when it could be rolled back?
How will people ever learn NOT to trust central authorities?
When will we ever get to a better system that CAN NOT fail or be exploited by a central authority?


P.s whoever posted a few posts back mocking me and and telling me cryptos are like trading cards... maybe you miss the whole point.
Fiat is way more like trading cards than crypto. Difference is fiat trading cards are supported by government.
Crypto doesn't need government support.
Which one do you think is better?


Anyone who does not learn from this, anyone who keeps their money on exchanges are to blame.
Mintpal is to blame. The hackers are to blame.
I sympathise with pnosker and team. I'm sorry you got placed in this situation.

[leckey]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft. 

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

[buy4crypto]

what happens to vrc  after the hard fork  I've got some vrc  on mintpal

We will know very soon, most likely, if your coins where not touched since 2am that you will have your full account balance

[blade87]

Bitcoin had 184 billion coins made by an attacker. Where is bitcoin today?

Bitcoin had a market cap of less than $200K back then, and was still hardly known. If BTC had some problem today that required it to hard fork overnight, it wouldn't be pretty and it would leave every single one of us holding the crypto bag. But that's the risk we take here in crypto.

[GridWorker]

P.s whoever posted a few posts back mocking me and and telling me cryptos are like trading cards... maybe you miss the whole point.
Fiat is way more like trading cards than crypto. Difference is fiat trading cards are supported by government.
Crypto doesn't need government support.
Which one do you think is better?

If crytpo is supported by a large community + exchanges, it develops value.

If it is only supported by yourself and a few of your friends, only having personal value, it is simply a hobby.

[buy4crypto]

Bitcoin had 184 billion coins made by an attacker. Where is bitcoin today?

Bitcoin had a market cap of less than $200K back then, and was still hardly known. If BTC had some problem that required it to hard fork overnight today, it wouldn't be pretty and it would leave every single one of us holding the crypto bag.

So, compared to bitcoins market cap, vericoin is small, not very well known in the overall picture, VeriCoin has the chance to create a beneficial outcome and have it all over media.

It could have same result in the end on vericoin, drawing in a larger community. Any awareness that creates new investors will be a benefit.

[YoyodyneSystems]

Seems to be a lot of confusion here on reality.

- All systems based on computer code connected to the internet can be compromised
- If Crypto Currencies are to be based on code and connected to the internet then they can and will be compromised
- They can sometimes be compromised to the point of total destruction of the system

Because the above points are facts then the following likely applies :

- Without the ability to correct massive damage it is not likely many will "trust" Crypto Currencies with their wealth
- Crypto Currency will likely become a failed experiment as a store of value without the ability to correct fatal damage to the system

- Some trust must be given to get trust in return

[phzi]

All I have to say at this point, is that I will enjoy watching the VRC price fall.

Big fail by the VRC community and dev team pushing thru a blockchain revert like this.  You have rewarded mintpal for stupidity and incompetence, and rewarded ill-advised investors that kept coins on an insecure exchange. This kind of rollback won't always be an option - period... If VRC survives to see any kind of decent transaction volume, an action like this would be devastating to the entire economy.  Instead of showing that the coin and community can survive something like this, you have clearly shown that it CANNOT survive such an attack without a rollback.  Therefore, it's my opinion that you have proven this coin cannot survive in the long run.

It could have same result in the end on vericoin, drawing in a larger community. Any awareness that creates new investors will be a benefit.

I can the headlines now:
VERICOIN rolls back numerous transactions - merchants, private traders, etc all screwed.  MintPal comes out ahead.

[buy4crypto]

You have seen more pages today alone in vericoin than in past week on this forum. I do vericoin websites. I am lookin at real time search results. I can tell you that they have improved since the hack.


So, I guess I have a different viewpoint on this stuff. I see demand so far for vericoin from a media perspective. The price and traders, Who knows about that part of the story. Time will tell.

[buy4crypto]

All I have to say at this point, is that I will enjoy watching the VRC price fall.

Big fail by the VRC community and dev team pushing thru a blockchain revert like this.  You have rewarded mintpal for stupidity and incompetence, and rewarded ill-advised investors that kept coins on an insecure exchange. This kind of rollback won't always be an option - period... If VRC survives to see any kind of decent transaction volume, an action like this would be devastating to the entire economy.  Instead of showing that the coin and community can survive something like this, you have clearly shown that it CANNOT survive such an attack without a rollback.  Therefore, it's my opinion that you have proven this coin cannot survive in the long run.

It could have same result in the end on vericoin, drawing in a larger community. Any awareness that creates new investors will be a benefit.

I can the headlines now:
VERICOIN rolls back numerous transactions - merchants, private traders, etc all screwed.  MintPal comes out ahead.

VeriCoin avoids millions in theft, reverts blockchain to a safe point.

More like that.

[eiskalt]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.

[buy4crypto]

All I have to say at this point, is that I will enjoy watching the VRC price fall.

Big fail by the VRC community and dev team pushing thru a blockchain revert like this.  You have rewarded mintpal for stupidity and incompetence, and rewarded ill-advised investors that kept coins on an insecure exchange. This kind of rollback won't always be an option - period... If VRC survives to see any kind of decent transaction volume, an action like this would be devastating to the entire economy.  Instead of showing that the coin and community can survive something like this, you have clearly shown that it CANNOT survive such an attack without a rollback.  Therefore, it's my opinion that you have proven this coin cannot survive in the long run.

It could have same result in the end on vericoin, drawing in a larger community. Any awareness that creates new investors will be a benefit.

I can the headlines now:
VERICOIN rolls back numerous transactions - merchants, private traders, etc all screwed.  MintPal comes out ahead.

Can you tell me how much VRC was transacted during that couple hours of the hack? Did anyone buy a mansion? A couple cheeseburgers? Maybe someone pulled off a couple thousand dollars in transactions unknowingly and got lucky. whats better, mintpal paying for that? Or the VRC community absorbing 30% dilution from a thief?

[leckey]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.

The exchanges would still exist. How can you not see this? Exchanges live off the fees gathered through trading, not from people leaving their coins in exchange wallets. It's REALLY fucking simple:
1) Go to exchange
2) Deposit to exchange
3) Make a trade = exchange gets fees
4) Withdraw from exchange

Everybody wins.

You'll notice I did say that MintPal was ultimately to blame. But the users who kept their funds there should not be absolved from blame. This has happened time and time again. How have they not learned by now?