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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1349974 times)
nvminer
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July 14, 2014, 03:09:13 AM
 #8181

I am a senior member in this bitcointalk forum, but I want to remain anonymous.
I noticed Vericoin discussion when go to Altcoin ANN, and here is some of my insight:

First, a few questions:

1. Did mintpal really lost Vericoin, because of being hacked?
After reading their official announcement, the information is rather vague. Is there a possibility that coins are withdrawn by some big bagholders? Is there possibility that coins are sold by Mintpal (or its personnel) to other people and then they want to reverse the transaction while not paying the money back?

2. Vericoin was hacked, while other coins, including Bitcoin, was intact. Is it because the problem of Vericoin blockchain, or because of the safety hazard in Mintpal?

3. Vericoin group decided to roll-back the blockchain, is this a result after a deliberate consideration, or not?

4. If a small Altcoin-Bitcoin exchange site get compromised, will the Vericoin team do the same thing to roll back?

Then a few insights:

Cryptocurrency is created to be de-centralized. By reversing some transactions through the intervention of development team, it goes against its initial objective.

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

my two satoshi
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July 14, 2014, 03:09:41 AM
 #8182

The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.

With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.

We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.

We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.

Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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July 14, 2014, 03:10:50 AM
 #8183

What if US federal reserve was stolen ? and 3000 (3 thousands ) billion dollars where stolen ?? What governement will do ? Dollar is a currency , vrc is a currency too (a crypto-currency) . So what do you think govermnement will do ? Extrem situations requires extrem decisions .


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July 14, 2014, 03:10:58 AM
 #8184

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  Huh

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

% is not an argument. The fact that a business fucked up in their security of their customers' VRC is not the devs problem. But obviously the devs want to make it their problem.

VRC hacks and scams will come with expectations now in the future. "Hey someone hacked my personal VRC wallet...can you VRC devs roll back and hard fork the blockchain so I can get my coins back?"

Utter BS.

Yeah, because all the hacks and thefts stopped with bitcoin, because the DEVs always refuted to step in.

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July 14, 2014, 03:11:41 AM
 #8185

The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.

With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.

We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.

We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.

Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.

You guys made the right descision and in time you will be rewarded. Thank you for caring about the community and stepping up, when many others step away. You are setting a the bar high for every crypto developer going. Happy to be a part of the community that we are creating at vericoin!

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July 14, 2014, 03:12:04 AM
 #8186


With that said, we will not be doing this again.

What's to stop you from hardforking again if another 8m coins were stolen?

Utter bullshit...
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July 14, 2014, 03:12:43 AM
 #8187

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  Huh

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

Its about the integrity of the blockchain. Who decides whether Mintpal was actually hacked or not? Apparently a mail from MintpalJason to a developer is enough today. Also note that this has nothing to do with this community. Mintpal probably has enough BTC to refund the VRC losses anyway, and they either would refund or die, since it is their fault.

What happens here is saving the fundings of an exchange (not community) at the expense of the blockchain integrity.

This ^ Mintpal has the burden of proof that they were in fact hacked and NOT just claim they were hacked. How do we know they didn't steal the coins and convert some to BTC?

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July 14, 2014, 03:13:07 AM
 #8188


With that said, we will not be doing this again.

What's to stop you from hardforking again if another 8m coins were stolen?

Utter bullshit...

You wont be able to steal the money again, so don't worry about that.

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July 14, 2014, 03:14:36 AM
 #8189

The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.

With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.

We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.

We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.

Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.

This is BULLSHIT.

Now future scams and hacks involving VRC don't get the same treatment? Double standard much? Hypocrite?

Now your trust has gone out the window.

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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July 14, 2014, 03:19:08 AM
 #8190

The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.

With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.

We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.

We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.

Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.

This is BULLSHIT.

Now future scams and hacks involving VRC don't get the same treatment? Double standard much? Hypocrite?

Now your trust has gone out the window.

Don't buy the coin then.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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July 14, 2014, 03:19:37 AM
 #8191


You wont be able to steal the money again, so don't worry about that.

really. did you just a cast magic spell on the cryptoworld, preventing all kind of malicious activities in future? you sir are awesome Grin

whoever sells below 29k now must be a complete retard....
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July 14, 2014, 03:20:43 AM
 #8192

Big risk the devs have made here. The media can take this either way: Positive spin: the rollback was done to save the coin from theft and probable destruction, negative spin: there's no such thing as decentralization and chargeback prevention in crypto as the devs can rollback at anytime.
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July 14, 2014, 03:20:50 AM
 #8193

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  Huh

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

Its about the integrity of the blockchain. Who decides whether Mintpal was actually hacked or not? Apparently a mail from MintpalJason to a developer is enough today. Also note that this has nothing to do with this community. Mintpal probably has enough BTC to refund the VRC losses anyway, and they either would refund or die, since it is their fault.

What happens here is saving the fundings of an exchange (not community) at the expense of the blockchain integrity.

This ^ Mintpal has the burden of proof that they were in fact hacked and NOT just claim they were hacked. How do we know they didn't steal the coins and convert some to BTC?

^ this.  the lack of transparency is suspect.  mintpal has provided no proof of hack, for all we know, it could be a VRC issue / inside job.  

yet VRC moves forward with hardfork in light of absolutely no transparency.  i am shocked, to say the least.  this entire situation is shady.
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July 14, 2014, 03:21:17 AM
 #8194

Millions in BTC were seized by law enforcement agencies because they resulted from criminal acts. Some of these coins were auctioned few days ago. People cheered it and it got lots of positive PR.

A crime should never prevail, especially when thousands of wallets are stolen simultaneously. This is what will get to the people in general. Developers acting to protect the community. This is a very positive outcome in the real world, despite being so painful from the purists point of view.
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July 14, 2014, 03:21:55 AM
 #8195


You wont be able to steal the money again, so don't worry about that.

really. did you just a cast magic spell on the cryptoworld, preventing all kind of malicious activities in future? you sir are awesome Grin

I find it interesting no denial. pls go back to your BC community, you offer us nothing to solve any issues, you only give your community further distance with us as you and all the lackeys keep on the attack.

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July 14, 2014, 03:22:33 AM
 #8196

No they picked the worse of two evils, they just proved this coin is completely centralized crypto and it will screw over countless innocent people.

How do you figure that a theft of VRC from an exchange is evidence of VRC being centralised? It was stolen from an exchange, not from a VRC services.

VRC is still a decentralised currency. If this had occurred from a service provided by VRC then you'd have a point but it is nothing to do with VRC and everything to do with, again, trading-exchange weaknesses.



It isn't decentralized if one developer can make changes and have them pushed to the community. That is a modern version of Bankster Bail outs. This is the first CRYPTO BANK BAIL OUT. I'm calling it.

lol

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July 14, 2014, 03:22:49 AM
 #8197

I am a senior member in this bitcointalk forum, but I want to remain anonymous.
I noticed Vericoin discussion when go to Altcoin ANN, and here is some of my insight:

First, a few questions:

1. Did mintpal really lost Vericoin, because of being hacked?
After reading their official announcement, the information is rather vague. Is there a possibility that coins are withdrawn by some big bagholders? Is there possibility that coins are sold by Mintpal (or its personnel) to other people and then they want to reverse the transaction while not paying the money back?

2. Vericoin was hacked, while other coins, including Bitcoin, was intact. Is it because the problem of Vericoin blockchain, or because of the safety hazard in Mintpal?

3. Vericoin group decided to roll-back the blockchain, is this a result after a deliberate consideration, or not?

4. If a small Altcoin-Bitcoin exchange site get compromised, will the Vericoin team do the same thing to roll back?

Then a few insights:

Cryptocurrency is created to be de-centralized. By reversing some transactions through the intervention of development team, it goes against its initial objective.

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

my two satoshi

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July 14, 2014, 03:22:57 AM
 #8198

Millions in BTC were seized by law enforcement agencies because they resulted from criminal acts. Some of these coins were auctioned few days ago. People cheered it and it got lots of positive PR.

A crime should never prevail, especially when thousands of wallets are stolen simultaneously. This is what will get to the people in general. Developers acting to protect the community. This is a very positive outcome in the real world, despite being so painful from the purists point of view.

Exactly, and its the market that vericoin actually wants. It might start as a trickle, but as we get this in the news the floodgates will open. It will just take some patience and a steady hand to ride the waves once trade opens.

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July 14, 2014, 03:25:32 AM
 #8199

It's a lose the most - lose the lesser scenario, if the devs won't rollback the coins stolen then the thief will have 1/3 of the coin supply and be essentially god of vericoins which will make people lose trust to the coin being controlled by a thief and eventually kill the coin. They did rollback and probably some small transactions are affected but won't kill the coin that quick, it is up to these guys to do the right thing and follow the original transaction. Though this is mintpal's fault to be honest.

Yup and that is just how the crypto world works. Now that the VRC devs have decided to roll back the block chain...this will remove their credibility from here on out. Trust in VRC is broken as any future scams and hacks will expect the same treatment from victims.

Mintpal should cover the cost or go out of business as they were idiotic enough to not be able to secure their customer's VRC.




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July 14, 2014, 03:25:55 AM
 #8200

pls go back to your BC community

eh they don't like me really  Grin because i'm pointing out all flaws BC has, and now i'm doing it here. and surprise surprise, you feel attacked.

it's ok, you got your agenda, guess you invested time and money into VRC, but this incident opened up a can of worms, don't deny that. it has its cons and its pros, but you want to sell me everything as 100% good

whoever sells below 29k now must be a complete retard....
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