[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[Dadams]

I am a senior member in this bitcointalk forum, but I want to remain anonymous.
I noticed Vericoin discussion when go to Altcoin ANN, and here is some of my insight:

First, a few questions:

1. Did mintpal really lost Vericoin, because of being hacked?
After reading their official announcement, the information is rather vague. Is there a possibility that coins are withdrawn by some big bagholders? Is there possibility that coins are sold by Mintpal (or its personnel) to other people and then they want to reverse the transaction while not paying the money back?

2. Vericoin was hacked, while other coins, including Bitcoin, was intact. Is it because the problem of Vericoin blockchain, or because of the safety hazard in Mintpal?

3. Vericoin group decided to roll-back the blockchain, is this a result after a deliberate consideration, or not?

4. If a small Altcoin-Bitcoin exchange site get compromised, will the Vericoin team do the same thing to roll back?

Then a few insights:

Cryptocurrency is created to be de-centralized. By reversing some transactions through the intervention of development team, it goes against its initial objective.

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

my two satoshi

As stated before, there are 3 choices here.

1. Do nothing and let it play out as it plays out.
Vericoin could die. Price could crash if hacker sells and then rebound. Hacker could keep the coin and stake or attempt a majority attack.
Mintpal could die. Customers will expect to be reimbursed.
If either survives it will be because they deserve to.

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

3. Roll back the blockchain to before the theft.
This seems to be the plan at the moment.
Mintpal bailed out. Customers happy in the short term.
Long term consequences? This is effectively a charge back and a bailout of a central authority that messed up.
It is not their fault they got hacked but just like it is never your fault if you get robbed. It is the criminals fault.
But if you are an exchange that advertises security and deals with other peoples money then you are accountable.

nvminer: I don't think there is much rational discussion going on in this thread at the moment.
There are a few who are posting their concern for what this means in the light of what cryptos mean to them.
There are a few who are concerned about their private investments and trying to keep the hype and spin up by silencing what they think is FUD.
The problem is they don't see that it could also be investors who see this from a different angle in longer term game and are actually trying to protect the infrastructure.

We have not had a discussion from the dev team, just and update on their plans.
I have a lot of sympathy for them and I'm glad I'm not in their shoes.
If you were dev, how do you think you would handle this?
Personally I think I would probably capitulate and make a blockchain change but go with option 2 as mentioned above.

[Celani10]

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

Lol dude you still here?

You are here for an hour already...

You won't get cheap coins man... community is in favour of dev action

Just fuck off

[InvestorPerson]

Your group is strong tonight, you have a lot of anger against our community, I bet. Never has one stuck up to the criminals such as this.

It sets a precedent for the future of crypto, we can better use the technology to make it safer, and gain faster crypto adoption.


Really sorry for you guys that stole tonight thinking u get rich and kill your competition, but I hope you know, this is most likely the fuel vericoin needs to become a real competitor to bitcoin. If any coin can, its VeriCoin now, So for that I say thank you. Its just seperated itself from the crypto sea with this outcome. I hope you fudders know, you are witnessing greatness, and you don't even know it!


What that mintpal hack accomplished, may have taken years to do in terms of media for a crypto this size.

aahaha and now i'm part of the heist   this is getting really entertaining.

"it sets a precedent"

yes this is correct. it shows that chargebacks are absolutely possible in cryptos. thanks

[smoothie]

As I understand VRC developers are now acting like a central bank to save big investors money. Veri Centralized.

lol Veri Centralized ....Very Bail Outs ....Much Veri wow.  

[lostlibra]

so crypto noob here. I had just put a few bucks in to VRC when this all went down. Still deciding whether to ride this out. I don't know enough about the history or the community to have an opinion on this stuff. From what I've read I can see that both sides have a point.

I know everybody's worked up, but a quick noob question.

I'm assuming to even dump what I have, I'd have to update my wallet as I got my coin of mintpal a while before all this went down.

Is updating the wallet as simply downloading the new version from the website? Anything else I need to do? Haven't had to deal with this yet.

[SeDz]

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap

[smoothie]

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

sorry but no one will buy a coin that a person owns 1/3 of their supply

Neither will they buy one where you can just roll back the fuck up by one business.

[smoothie]

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap

My problem: Vericoin is now bail out approved. 

[bigc1984]

I am a senior member in this bitcointalk forum, but I want to remain anonymous.
I noticed Vericoin discussion when go to Altcoin ANN, and here is some of my insight:

First, a few questions:

1. Did mintpal really lost Vericoin, because of being hacked?
After reading their official announcement, the information is rather vague. Is there a possibility that coins are withdrawn by some big bagholders? Is there possibility that coins are sold by Mintpal (or its personnel) to other people and then they want to reverse the transaction while not paying the money back?

2. Vericoin was hacked, while other coins, including Bitcoin, was intact. Is it because the problem of Vericoin blockchain, or because of the safety hazard in Mintpal?

3. Vericoin group decided to roll-back the blockchain, is this a result after a deliberate consideration, or not?

4. If a small Altcoin-Bitcoin exchange site get compromised, will the Vericoin team do the same thing to roll back?

Then a few insights:

Cryptocurrency is created to be de-centralized. By reversing some transactions through the intervention of development team, it goes against its initial objective.

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

my two satoshi

Nobody care to answer, I will leave, but the credit of Vericoin is compromised.

all of these are very valid concerns and the reason integrity in this coin has been lost.

[btminer8]

Some people rather enjoy the suffering of others (eg mintpal Jay, Jason and vrc investors) it makes me sick.

The choice is an obvious one to minimize damage.

What goes around comes around.

[noerc]

Was hard to catch up in this thread since I went out to the soccer game. I can understand that having 30% of the coins under the control of a single person is dangerous in a coin-age principle PoS system - especially when this person got them for free. Still I can not support this roll back.

First, as mentioned in a post before, what if someone bought goods for VRC a couple of hours ago? From what I see you can currently take advantage of the fact that the upcoming rollback is not known to everyone and purchase things on the current blockchain which soon will be obsolete. Who is responsible for these losses?

Secondly, I don't see why a full rollback is necessary. You could also just remove these coin outputs through a mandatory client update, effectively reducing the supply of VRC but keeping all transactions that use other coin outputs valid. This way the integrity of the blockchain would remain to some extend, but the coins stolen would be worthless.

Of course, Mintpal would not like this solution, but the community should prefer it and the 51% attack would be avoided.  

[bigc1984]

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap

trust me... lol.. no one wants to buy.

[defier]

For the cheap seats and peanut gallery.
VRC POW(mining) is over. POS is whats left

The FUD spreaders can stop concerning themselves about the poor Miners.  Whew, I was worried for a moment!

[smoothie]

Rollback destroys all integrity of the block chain. You may as well go back to using dollars if you want to have a solution as moronic as a rollback. Honestly, anyone for it is either a) new as hell and totally clueless on what the block chain does and what cryptos are, or b) trying to kill this coin and MintPal

Simple as that. You are either stupid or just FUD'ing if you support a rollback. I expect flak from tons of new accounts starting...NOW

[FUD_master]

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

sorry but no one will buy a coin that a person owns 1/3 of their supply

Neither will they buy one where you can just roll back the fuck up by one business.

Physical bitcoin and litecoin, dude?  You clearly have a huge misunderstanding of the entire point of cryptos.

[Dadams]

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

[Alphi]

so crypto noob here. I had just put a few bucks in to VRC when this all went down. Still deciding whether to ride this out. I don't know enough about the history or the community to have an opinion on this stuff. From what I've read I can see that both sides have a point.

I know everybody's worked up, but a quick noob question.

I'm assuming to even dump what I have, I'd have to update my wallet as I got my coin of mintpal a while before all this went down.

Is updating the wallet as simply downloading the new version from the website? Anything else I need to do? Haven't had to deal with this yet.

it depends on where your coins are...

if they are on mintpal there is nothing you can do but ride it out until trading resumes. (and hope or pray that mintpal restores your balance)
you will not need to update anything to trade coins that are already on the exchange.

if the coins are on your wallet you just need to update to the latest version when it is supplied then find an exchange that is trading the coin.

from what I gather all exchanges have halted trading presently.

[btminer8]

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap

trust me... lol.. no one wants to buy.

I would. If this fork is successful and coins go back to their rightful owners.

[bigc1984]

Was hard to catch up in this thread since I went out to the soccer game. I can understand that having 30% of the coins under the control of a single person is dangerous in a coin-age principle PoS system - especially when this person got them for free. Still I can not support this roll back.

First, as mentioned in a post before, what if someone bought goods for VRC a couple of hours ago? From what I see you can currently take advantage of the fact that the upcoming rollback is not known to everyone and purchase things on the current blockchain which soon will be obsolete. Who is responsible for these losses?

Secondly, I don't see why a full rollback is necessary. You could also just remove these coin outputs through a mandatory client update, effectively reducing the supply of VRC but keeping all transactions that use other coin outputs valid. This way the integrity of the blockchain would remain to some extend, but the coins stolen would be worthless.

Of course, Mintpal would not like this solution, but the community should prefer it and the 51% attack would be avoided.  

The fact that someone could have traded a shit load of VRC for other coins and now will get the VRC back AND get to keep the coins they traded for is ridiculous.

[lostlibra]

they're all in my wallet. I saw Pat make reference to clearing everything but wallet.dat. I'm guessing that was for linux wallets? simply downloading an updated windows wallet will be fine?

And yeah, knew trading was down. Deciding whether to move everything right away when it comes back up or wait and see what happens.