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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1349964 times)
btminer8
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July 14, 2014, 02:57:07 AM
 #8161

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is forever tainted, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  Undecided

+1, sad but true.


Mtgox only admits they had lost almost 750,000 (7% of supply) 2 weeks after they stopped withdrawal. It is already too late for them to do anything.

7% is insignificant compare to 30%. Bitcoin had much more infrastructures (eg exchanges, merchants) then vericoin now. No one can convince 50% of the network to roll back blockchain. Bitcoin network is just too decentralized.

Vericoin now at most is only a speculative investment; I highly doubt anyone would use Vericoin/Verbit for everyday transaction. Vericoin developers and big 4 exchanges were quick to understand the situation to devise a plan allows them to minimize damage to the network integrity.

I hope everyone learns a lesson here and move on. Fud-ing without any constructive argument is not in our best interest for the whole crypto currency communities. What about discussing the solution to today problem?
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July 14, 2014, 02:58:57 AM
 #8162

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is forever tainted, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  Undecided

+1, sad but true.


Mtgox only admits they had lost almost 750,000 (7% of supply) 2 weeks after they stopped withdrawal. It is already too late for them to do anything.

7% is insignificant compare to 30%. Bitcoin had much more infrastructures (eg exchanges, merchants) then vericoin now. No one can convince 50% of the network to roll back blockchain. Bitcoin network is just too decentralized.

Vericoin now at most is only a speculative investment; I highly doubt anyone would use Vericoin/Verbit for everyday transaction. Vericoin developers and big 4 exchanges were quick to understand the situation to devise a plan allows them to minimize damage to the network integrity.

I hope everyone learns a lesson here and move on. Fud-ing without any constructive argument is not in our best interest for the whole crypto currency communities. What about discussing the solution to today problem?

This is something we should get focused on. Its is very hard with all the FUD attempts. But we must try to refocus in the midst of all the tension.

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July 14, 2014, 02:59:52 AM
 #8163

They said the fork is going to happen and that's probably the best course of action for the coin. My concern is that in the rush to get the fork done there will not be sufficient communications from the dev team and key stakeholders. I run several public VRC nodes with lots of connections. What can I be doing to make sure the fork is successful? Should I shut my nodes down now or leave them running? Do I just need to download/compile/restart when the new code becomes available? Is there anything else I can do to help the network converge onto the correct chain? I hope this doesn't turn into a DRK style fork where the key people think everything is fine but everyone else is seeing random forks all over the place. Some clear communication from the key people would be great, I'm ready to help--just let me know how.

Send me an email, pnosker@vericoin.info. You will need to reclone/compile.

All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.


I don't follow you. I'm no banker, lender, or exchanger. I've done some trading as I'm sure many of us have. So what? Crypto is an interesting hobby I've been into for a while. I work in the tech industry and running some public nodes seemed like a fun thing to do. I always figured that spending a bit of my money and time to keep some nodes updated and functional was helpful.

When I saw this emergency fork was going to take place I remembered the fiasco with the DRK forks. No offense against the DRK team, I think they've done some cool stuff. But those masternode forks were a mess by any measure. So with this VRC emergency fork happening I decided to post a message asking for direction. I just want to get my nodes updated properly and make sure they are on the right fork. I also wanted to extend an offer to help if there was anything I could do. I was pretty impressed that Patrick replied back right away.

Meanwhile I get this reply about manipulators and middleman which doesn't make a lot of sense. I scroll through the messages looking for relevant info and all I see are these types of rants. They're all so negative and unhelpful. I understand people are upset about the decision to roll back transactions. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. But jeez, some of this is a little over the top. I suspect that at least some of these rants are an attempt to fuel panic selling when the markets finally open back up. Which would make *those* folks the manipulators, not me.


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July 14, 2014, 03:00:58 AM
 #8164

People should take note of this. Not because of the hack, but because of the immediate step-up of the developers to defend the integrity of the coin.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe the bar has effectively been raised.

+10
But thing about it widely:

1) Conclusion is that VRC is valuable to 8m /27 *100%  = 30% attacks...not 51%

2) Big hit into decentralization image of VRC "rolbacks" - shows that crypto is not decentralized coin...
So fork BTC before MtGox that way...


Are you mad that the developers of VRC took the proper action, while bitcoin let there community lose?

VeriCoin will take the lead in due time. Its got to many people that care.

Any business that is incompetent to handle customer funds and property should be held liable without a "bail out" in the form of a hard fork through the VRC devs. This will set a precedent for things to come. Watch the next exchange that gets hacked or person will cry foul and expect the VRC devs to roll back the block chain and if they don't they will be then hypocrites.

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July 14, 2014, 03:01:40 AM
 #8165

rollback? how about calling it a chargeback

a thing that shouldn't be possible in cryptos, but you guys are now trying to sell me this as something positive

some funny PR guys here

whoever sells below 29k now must be a complete retard....
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July 14, 2014, 03:02:15 AM
 #8166

Can someone with better writing skills, or a few people make me up something well written about the headlines of today? English isn't my first language (im sure you all can tell by now)

I will spend hours a day through social media and emails until this goes viral.

So if someone doesn't mind helping me out, something quick and easy for a news outlet to view and want to learn more about the story.

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July 14, 2014, 03:03:09 AM
 #8167

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  Huh

This is exactly what I am talking about. The trust factor will go down the toilet.

The VRC devs obviously are willing to take on a business's inadequacy to secure their users VRC on their exchange. Let's wait for the next VRC hack or scam that happens...watch as the rumbles of hypocrisy take shape.

Bad decision by the devs. Their credibility went out the door.

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July 14, 2014, 03:03:41 AM
 #8168

rollback? how about calling it a chargeback

a thing that shouldn't be possible in cryptos, but you guys are now trying to sell me this as something positive

some funny PR guys here

Thieves don't steal millions, And thats bad PR? To much of a crypto purist to see whats holding back adoption? Normal people don't care for thievery of there money, buddy.

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July 14, 2014, 03:04:13 AM
 #8169

This may be a dumb question, but did the total supply just go down 30%? That's how I read the hard fork and mintpal reimbursement.

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July 14, 2014, 03:04:31 AM
 #8170

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  Huh

This is exactly what I am talking about. The trust factor will go down the toilet.

The VRC devs obviously are willing to take on a business's inadequacy to secure their users VRC on their exchange. Let's wait for the next VRC hack or scam that happens...watch as the rumbles of hypocrisy take shape.

Bad decision by the devs. Their credibility went out the door.

To you, and went up with a majority of other people. Sure the price might go down a bit in the first few minutes as people panic and re-asses, I will be shocked if this stays down for long however.

Dogecoin got big because of MEDIA am i correct? It was a dog face coin with big community that grew from media.

Vericoin will benefit in time, people will see the quality of developers and community and come here.

I dont think I seen a normal fudder here today, All these people are 100% new, and that means they are thinking about vericoin now.

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July 14, 2014, 03:05:02 AM
 #8171

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  Huh

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

% is not an argument. The fact that a business fucked up in their security of their customers' VRC is not the devs problem. But obviously the devs want to make it their problem.

VRC hacks and scams will come with expectations now in the future. "Hey someone hacked my personal VRC wallet...can you VRC devs roll back and hard fork the blockchain so I can get my coins back?"

Utter BS.

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July 14, 2014, 03:05:22 AM
 #8172

And the BTC fork for that 184 million exploited coins was for development?  Yes I know you previously try to explain how that wasn't the same.  Facts are, someone illicitly grabbed a bunch of coins, and the community reacted to negate it.  No two scenarios are the same and must be resolved differently.  
Nobody grabbed illicit coins... someone exploited a flaw to generate more coins then they should while mining a block.  It was a protocol level flaw in bitcoin that was fixed.  Yes, that was a development mistake, and a hardfork was necessary (the fix made the new blockchain incompatible with the old blockchain, and that 184million coin block was orphaned as a result).  The VRC action is totally different.  VRC IS NOT SUGGESTING A HARDFORK - the devs aren't fixing anything.  They are acting for benefit of an exchange and third party to the protocol.

Rolling-back a blockchain is unbelievably contrary to a decentralized ledger.  That, is the key.

Quote
A bookkeeper who "fudges" the books, has no place being trusted to keep the public ledger. Pressure is moot.

They are not acting for the benefit of an exchange, because there would be no legal obligation for the exchange to reimburse customers. Again you seem to not like the idea, that a thieve will hold an empty bag.

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July 14, 2014, 03:05:52 AM
 #8173

rollback? how about calling it a chargeback

a thing that shouldn't be possible in cryptos, but you guys are now trying to sell me this as something positive

some funny PR guys here

Thieves don't steal millions, And thats bad PR? To much of a crypto purist to see whats holding back adoption? Normal people don't care for thievery of there money, buddy.

you are trying damn hard to get people to put more money into VRC once it's back. slow down man, you might trip and fall

whoever sells below 29k now must be a complete retard....
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July 14, 2014, 03:06:08 AM
 #8174

People should take note of this. Not because of the hack, but because of the immediate step-up of the developers to defend the integrity of the coin.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe the bar has effectively been raised.

+10
But thing about it widely:

1) Conclusion is that VRC is valuable to 8m /27 *100%  = 30% attacks...not 51%

2) Big hit into decentralization image of VRC "rolbacks" - shows that crypto is not decentralized coin...
So fork BTC before MtGox that way...


Are you mad that the developers of VRC took the proper action, while bitcoin let there community lose?

VeriCoin will take the lead in due time. Its got to many people that care.

soooo wait... i just bought a car with vericoins... and so i got the car... and so now the network will be rolled back to a date prior to me buying the car?  so now i have the car and all my vericoins back?  so now I can buy another car..... .sweet.

Anyone who sent coins from the time the hack occurred (where they will roll back to) to the current time...can essentially DOUBLE SPEND their coins.

EPIC fail.  Cheesy

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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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healthandwealth
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July 14, 2014, 03:07:30 AM
 #8175

Speaking of panic selling...when (or if) coins are restored on Mintpal...what kind of a percentage dump are people estimating?  

I was thinking anywhere from 25-50%.  

As bad as this sounds...it would seem to be a prime time opportunity to (new) buyers.  

Regardless of what happens...I foresee Vericoin rising 10-100x by years end.

So if you have some now...hold and stake.  Unless you swing trade at exchanges...then tread carefully.

It's not a matter of if.  It's a matter of when.
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July 14, 2014, 03:07:35 AM
 #8176

I personally am very excited by this. I know this may be a scary time for the people who currently have VRC missing, but think of the precedent this is setting!

Never in the history of money has there been the ability to just "Rollback" to a point prior to a theft. This is like if bank robbers got away with 2 million dollars, and the next day the money was back in their vault, while the robbers are now magically holding worthless monopoly money.

This really has the potential to change the way that the world sees crypto - it is a tangible benefit that fiat money will never be able to provide. If it goes off smoothly I have no doubt we'll see this in Forbes at the minimum, since they already are fairly crypto-friendly.

This is the new age Bank Bail out....by hard forking. Get with the program lol...so messed up.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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buy4crypto
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July 14, 2014, 03:07:42 AM
 #8177

rollback? how about calling it a chargeback

a thing that shouldn't be possible in cryptos, but you guys are now trying to sell me this as something positive

some funny PR guys here

Thieves don't steal millions, And thats bad PR? To much of a crypto purist to see whats holding back adoption? Normal people don't care for thievery of there money, buddy.

you are trying damn hard to get people to put more money into VRC once it's back. slow down man, you might trip and fall

You think I am here trying to sell. And I guess if you listened to me at 10k, blah blah blah. Or when I bought my domains months ago under 10k satoshi. But I guess you can call me a pumper cause this is your first time here. Interesting huh? But you know it all.

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July 14, 2014, 03:08:08 AM
 #8178

People should take note of this. Not because of the hack, but because of the immediate step-up of the developers to defend the integrity of the coin.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe the bar has effectively been raised.

+10
But thing about it widely:

1) Conclusion is that VRC is valuable to 8m /27 *100%  = 30% attacks...not 51%

2) Big hit into decentralization image of VRC "rolbacks" - shows that crypto is not decentralized coin...
So fork BTC before MtGox that way...


Are you mad that the developers of VRC took the proper action, while bitcoin let there community lose?

VeriCoin will take the lead in due time. Its got to many people that care.

Any business that is incompetent to handle customer funds and property should be held liable without a "bail out" in the form of a hard fork through the VRC devs. This will set a precedent for things to come. Watch the next exchange that gets hacked or person will cry foul and expect the VRC devs to roll back the block chain and if they don't they will be then hypocrites.

Yup, i agree with you but there are pros and cons on both sides. Doing the opposite will also set another precedent for things to come. Watch the next exchange/coin gets hacked and watch the thief get away with it cause the communities allows them to.

If this is the mindset of crypto currency, would outside money risk their money investing into crypto? Be careful what you ask for.
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July 14, 2014, 03:08:34 AM
 #8179

I personally am very excited by this. I know this may be a scary time for the people who currently have VRC missing, but think of the precedent this is setting!

Never in the history of money has there been the ability to just "Rollback" to a point prior to a theft. This is like if bank robbers got away with 2 million dollars, and the next day the money was back in their vault, while the robbers are now magically holding worthless monopoly money.

This really has the potential to change the way that the world sees crypto - it is a tangible benefit that fiat money will never be able to provide. If it goes off smoothly I have no doubt we'll see this in Forbes at the minimum, since they already are fairly crypto-friendly.

This is the new age Bank Bail out....by hard forking. Get with the program lol...so messed up.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
buy4crypto
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July 14, 2014, 03:08:55 AM
 #8180

I personally am very excited by this. I know this may be a scary time for the people who currently have VRC missing, but think of the precedent this is setting!

Never in the history of money has there been the ability to just "Rollback" to a point prior to a theft. This is like if bank robbers got away with 2 million dollars, and the next day the money was back in their vault, while the robbers are now magically holding worthless monopoly money.

This really has the potential to change the way that the world sees crypto - it is a tangible benefit that fiat money will never be able to provide. If it goes off smoothly I have no doubt we'll see this in Forbes at the minimum, since they already are fairly crypto-friendly.

This is the new age Bank Bail out....by hard forking. Get with the program lol...so messed up.

Why are you so interested in letting the thieves away with the money?

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