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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1351060 times)
majeis
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July 13, 2014, 09:09:26 PM
 #7881


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

Have you even read this conversation? Do you know what side of the argument you're on?


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July 13, 2014, 09:09:51 PM
 #7882

do you guys think that vrc will be dumped when the market return?

Ofcourse, but i'm ready to pick them up.

there are many whales in vrc.. i think in short term it can be dumped but it will return in middle/long term

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July 13, 2014, 09:13:31 PM
 #7883

I don't think that very will be dumped, the sad is that many good things were coming this month
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July 13, 2014, 09:15:02 PM
 #7884

Anybody scared about other coins that in Mintpal wallet?

Why didnt they just withdraw BTC instead?

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mr_random
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July 13, 2014, 09:15:20 PM
 #7885


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming since you've realised the flaw in your original logic (namely, no hacker would sit around and control the network whilst their coins become worthless), you are now reverting to making nonsensical posts.

I've already explained what I am talking about, very clearly. Of course the hacker will dump his coins on the exchanges. Why is that a problem? Can you explain?

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July 13, 2014, 09:19:35 PM
 #7886

If people are smart, it will get pumped, & make mintpal pay threw the fucking nose for their epic blunder of complete & total disregard for their own security statements.

majeis
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July 13, 2014, 09:20:38 PM
 #7887


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming since you've realised the flaw in your original logic (namely, no hacker would sit around and control the network whilst their coins become worthless), you are now reverting to making nonsensical posts.

I've already explained what I am talking about, very clearly. Of course the hacker will dump his coins on the exchanges. Why is that a problem? Can you explain?

Uhh, because it would result in the needless destruction of an exchange and a currency and the enrichment of a thieving party for no reason other than the preservation of the blockchain, and forking would address that.

Where is the flaw in my logic?


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tigerwood0432
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July 13, 2014, 09:23:16 PM
 #7888

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?


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Lucksee
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July 13, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
 #7889

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?
mr_random
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July 13, 2014, 09:29:06 PM
 #7890


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming since you've realised the flaw in your original logic (namely, no hacker would sit around and control the network whilst their coins become worthless), you are now reverting to making nonsensical posts.

I've already explained what I am talking about, very clearly. Of course the hacker will dump his coins on the exchanges. Why is that a problem? Can you explain?

Uhh, because it would result in the needless destruction of an exchange and a currency and the enrichment of a thieving party for no reason other than the preservation of the blockchain, and forking would address that.

Where is the flaw in my logic?

And prove to me why it would destroy Mintpal and Vericoin. You cannot. If Vericoin plummets in price, which it would in this scenario, Mintpal can pay back the stolen Vericoin easily. And eventually Vericoin would find a new equilibrium price and recover.

What you do not like is the thief gaining from this and the price of Vericoin suffering.


majeis
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July 13, 2014, 09:30:27 PM
 #7891


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming since you've realised the flaw in your original logic (namely, no hacker would sit around and control the network whilst their coins become worthless), you are now reverting to making nonsensical posts.

I've already explained what I am talking about, very clearly. Of course the hacker will dump his coins on the exchanges. Why is that a problem? Can you explain?

Uhh, because it would result in the needless destruction of an exchange and a currency and the enrichment of a thieving party for no reason other than the preservation of the blockchain, and forking would address that.

Where is the flaw in my logic?

And prove to me why it would destroy Mintpal and Vericoin. You cannot. If Vericoin plummets in price, which it would in this scenario, Mintpal can pay back the stolen Vericoin easily. And eventually Vericoin would find a new equilibrium price and recover.

What you do not like is the thief gaining from this and the price of Vericoin suffering.



So we're back to my original original question that you never answered:

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?


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July 13, 2014, 09:32:44 PM
 #7892

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?
It's not about hard-forking... it's about rolling back the blockchain.  Please show me when BTC and LTC rolled back their blockchains?  As far as I know, there were two cases in bitcoin history - both were due to technical problems caused by updates.  Rolling back a blockchain because coins were stolen is a dangerous precedent, and one I believe strongly will kill this coin if performed.

Someone has 30% of VRC.  DEAL WITH IT.  Don't rollback the blockchain like idiots.  

Make mintpal pay for their mistake.  Devs should not be trying to help an exchange like this.
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July 13, 2014, 09:34:34 PM
 #7893

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?
It's not about hard-forking... it's about rolling back the blockchain.  Please show me when BTC and LTC rolled back their blockchains?  As far as I know, there were two cases in bitcoin history - both were due to technical problems caused by updates.  Rolling back a blockchain because coins were stolen is a dangerous precedent, and one I believe strongly will kill this coin if performed.

Someone has 30% of VRC.  DEAL WITH IT.  Don't rollback the blockchain like idiots.  

Make mintpal pay for their mistake.  Devs should not be trying to help an exchange like this.

"Just deal with theft" Hell no, not when it can be solved. Go fuck yourself. And believe me Mintpal will be paying HARD CORE FOR IT. WAY WAY WAY worse than if nothing was done.
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July 13, 2014, 09:39:11 PM
 #7894


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming since you've realised the flaw in your original logic (namely, no hacker would sit around and control the network whilst their coins become worthless), you are now reverting to making nonsensical posts.

I've already explained what I am talking about, very clearly. Of course the hacker will dump his coins on the exchanges. Why is that a problem? Can you explain?

Uhh, because it would result in the needless destruction of an exchange and a currency and the enrichment of a thieving party for no reason other than the preservation of the blockchain, and forking would address that.

Where is the flaw in my logic?

And prove to me why it would destroy Mintpal and Vericoin. You cannot. If Vericoin plummets in price, which it would in this scenario, Mintpal can pay back the stolen Vericoin easily. And eventually Vericoin would find a new equilibrium price and recover.

What you do not like is the thief gaining from this and the price of Vericoin suffering.



So we're back to my original original question that you never answered:

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

We are not "back" to your original question. Now that I have destroyed every woefully prepared argument you have put my way, which you conveniently ignore, you have fallen back onto something else.

If someone gained 51% of the network hash of the Bitcoin network, they can change the hash mechanism without violating decentralisation or irreversibility. And other such arguments.


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July 13, 2014, 09:40:53 PM
 #7895


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


You going to answer my questions or ignore them like EVERYONE ELSE who is FUDDING right now?

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

You think it'd be a better precedent to allow a thief complete control over the network in the name of "fundamental underpinning tenets?"

Listen dumbass. In that situation a hacker isn't going to spend a week fucking around with the network and watching his $2million worth of of Vericoin become worthless as the price bombs on every exchange due to what he is doing. He will sell his Vericoin whilst they are still worth something.

How is the hacker going to sell when no exchange will reopen trading until the fork is complete?

Have you even read the conversation? We are talking about a no fork scenario here.

Yeah, the no-fork scenario that you're a proponent of, yet you're saying that if there wasn't a fork the hacker would dump on every exchange.

So... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming since you've realised the flaw in your original logic (namely, no hacker would sit around and control the network whilst their coins become worthless), you are now reverting to making nonsensical posts.

I've already explained what I am talking about, very clearly. Of course the hacker will dump his coins on the exchanges. Why is that a problem? Can you explain?

Uhh, because it would result in the needless destruction of an exchange and a currency and the enrichment of a thieving party for no reason other than the preservation of the blockchain, and forking would address that.

Where is the flaw in my logic?

And prove to me why it would destroy Mintpal and Vericoin. You cannot. If Vericoin plummets in price, which it would in this scenario, Mintpal can pay back the stolen Vericoin easily. And eventually Vericoin would find a new equilibrium price and recover.

What you do not like is the thief gaining from this and the price of Vericoin suffering.



So we're back to my original original question that you never answered:

So to put things in perspective, you'd be okay with absolutely nothing being done about a simultaneous 33% acquisition of the bitcoin supply by a malicious thief along with 51% of the network hash by that same person?

We are not "back" to your original question. Now that I have destroyed every woefully prepared argument you have put my way, which you conveniently ignore, you have fallen back onto something else.

If someone gained 51% of the network hash of the Bitcoin network, they can change the hash mechanism without violating decentralisation or irreversibility. And other such arguments.



Destroyed?

Your solution is to let a hacker dump 33% of the coin supply and see what happens.


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July 13, 2014, 09:42:05 PM
 #7896

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?
It's not about hard-forking... it's about rolling back the blockchain.  Please show me when BTC and LTC rolled back their blockchains?  As far as I know, there were two cases in bitcoin history - both were due to technical problems caused by updates.  Rolling back a blockchain because coins were stolen is a dangerous precedent, and one I believe strongly will kill this coin if performed.

Someone has 30% of VRC.  DEAL WITH IT.  Don't rollback the blockchain like idiots.  

Make mintpal pay for their mistake.  Devs should not be trying to help an exchange like this.

It won't even cost Mintpal that much because the price of Vericoin will plummet fast if VRC devs just suck it up and don't do a rollback.

And Vericoin will recover.

Mtgox was hacked in 2011, 8% of all Bitcoin in existence were dumped through the exchange and the price suffered badly. Where is Bitcoin now? It's a very different case, but it's an example of how things recover.

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July 13, 2014, 09:45:37 PM
 #7897

I can't believe how quickly and professionally the dev team acted on this.  A lot of discussion going on here, which is good, but at the end of the day, this is a great team effort and I believe in this coin and cryptocurrencies.

We will not let hackers run this!  Nice work dev team!  I wish mintpal did not have security issues, but getting through tough issues like this will only prove that we can progress forward even stronger than yesterday!

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July 13, 2014, 09:46:28 PM
 #7898

Deal with it and no one will buy this coin because of a 51% attack. You only need to control 51% of staking coins. Easy when you have 8 million coins. To prevent that you have to undo this. Either way this is gonna get dumped. http://i.imgur.com/O5TUyGg.jpg

6 million coins removed from staking recently.

YOU ARE DEAD TO ME
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July 13, 2014, 09:47:29 PM
 #7899


We are not "back" to your original question. Now that I have destroyed every woefully prepared argument you have put my way, which you conveniently ignore, you have fallen back onto something else.

If someone gained 51% of the network hash of the Bitcoin network, they can change the hash mechanism without violating decentralisation or irreversibility. And other such arguments.



bullshit. i revoked every of your argument and you just pretend to not see them.

and you still didnt answer his question. you just repeated what he asked you

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July 13, 2014, 09:48:08 PM
 #7900

I just occurred to me...
if I was the hacker:

I would send most of the coins to an address without keys.
something like: mintpalsucskandhasnosecuritylol

Hacker turned hero?
Shows Mintpal security flaw.
Decreases coin supply.
Keeps small amount as fee.
Price of coin goes up.
?? ?
Profit


Mintpal dies.
Central exchanges die.
Central everything dies.
Distribution lives.
New world.
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