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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1351059 times)
buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:12:54 PM
 #7981

Not everyone has to know how to code, or be a super nerd to invest in crypto.

VeriCoin is breaking the mold, and will succeed as long as the community stays strong in the face of the enemies trying to bring it down.

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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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July 13, 2014, 11:17:59 PM
 #7982


It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.


Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.


Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.

Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.

Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.

You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack.  Are you thick?  There is no choice

There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.

Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.

Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.

Choice 2.....

So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?

Am I missing something? You make no sense

I'm definitely not ok with rollback.
That way you just protect a broken system.
Mintpal, who is partially at fault here, suffers none.
People who trust centralized systems don't learn not to.
It will set a ridiculous precedent.

Maybe we should also immediately start forming the senate that decides what theft is big enough to warrant a rollback and who it will benefit?

In fork:
hacker does not get coins and the fear of 51% attack goes away.
Mintpal and daytraders lose lots of money.
People learn once again not to trust exchanges.
Maybe one day this will sink in and we will have peer to peer trading.

Either way there is meddling by dev and central bodies which is against the underlying principles.


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.
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July 13, 2014, 11:20:38 PM
 #7983

As much as I've been a supporter of VeriCoin... a fork to roll back the blockchain is a very tough pill to swallow. Have to say I'm with dadams.
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July 13, 2014, 11:25:47 PM
 #7984

Yes, today we learned that centralized services, centralized ownership (1/3 being hot in Mintpal alone says everything) and centralized authority (rollback to save $2m worth of VRC that were most likely owned by VRC whales) just doesn't work in crypto. Decentralized is what makes crypto secure and VRC has absolutely none of that in any way shape or form.
From what I have read there are huge trust issues with standard coin and the fact that a person can cancel the transaction and keep your money. Why is that a better option than having your stolen money returned to you?


Developers cannot unilaterally fork a thing unless over half the wallets agree.  30% of the wallets are going to be against the fork already, making the 51% target much harder to reach.  Or am I wrong?
So it would be a better thing to play renegade and keep your imaginary coins? Or are you saying that you vote with an empty wallet? Roll Eyes

But VRC PoS vulnerabilities still remain.
Dude............every dang thing that exists has vulnerabilities, including your buttholio. The only difference is whether someone is interested enough and has enough persistence to find a way.

This really isn't making sense... The thief stole so much of the coin that if he were to get away with it, the coin would be worthless... And the way he went about it made it impossible for him to dump any of it...
Conspiratorial inclined would think that a competing exchange worked together with a competing coin in an attempt to shift the perception of the public. Playing on the fears of "loss" that seem rampant in this community.

We will just be updating to the new wallet they release and pop in our old .dat file and all is well?
That's my plan. And I feel that all is well.
Also meant to thank you for your help before, but the PM kept telling me that I just posted when I hadn't, and gave up after 5 times LoL!



Decentralized exchanges ........ which are trustless by design, are safer by definition. They are the future.
Bitcoin is attractive to thieves because its transactions are irreversible.

Sure, every exchange could be hacked, but it was Mintpal and not Poloniex/Bittrex/Cryptsy.

Think about it
What makes you think a competing exchange wasn't involved?

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?
So the concept called "tunnel reality" is seen to be in effect, which is the brain functioning in full to filter out what one does not believe in. It inevitably leads to cognitive dissonance. Cheesy

The people at fault here is Mintpal and the hacker.
Technically everyone involved is "at fault", anyone that chose to use an exchange, and anyone that chose to get involved in crytpocurrency. Fault involves all who made choices that have linked eachother together. Though you could logically say that someone "wronged" others, in which case it is not VRC nor Mintpal.

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...
Because they are about to hit the mainstream and cause quite a splash. Certain other "anonymous" elements wish to keep that from happening.

All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.
Without them you would have what exactly? A digital coin that only has your own personal value? Great idea! Grin

Ask yourself, if your other alts had this happen, what would the dev response have been?
I would guess that they would capitalize on their anonymity and disappear.

Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.
Anonymity is not exactly an answer for a system that thieves find comfort in. This is the cause of the resistance, the thieves considering a possible loss of freedom.

Decentralized (peer-to-peer) exchanges are the way forward. Would be awesome if VRC devs could implement this.
I was under the impression that they were going to offer both options. I assume they will continue, after some delays of course.

it soved in simply way one of POS problems
ONE problem..........as mentioned already, there will always exist vulnerabilities, it is impossible to be fully secure as long as thieves remain.

vrc: VBL3M6EzwcYZWeuDpgjG9bDQzTKb4ydiDy
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July 13, 2014, 11:26:46 PM
 #7985

Out of the chaos comes innovation.
Please implement the following in all coins from here on :

- A voting system that rewards 1 vote per coin
- This voting system can be used to see the true position of all coins holders on topics of interest
- This voting system can be used specifically to determine if a rollback should or should not occur
- Holding the vote inside the client instead of outside the client (such as an external site) gives true weight to opinions of actual coin holders
- It's not a perfect system but it is as close to "de-centralized" as we can come at this time
- It may give more voting "stock" to those that own more coins instead of individuals but those people should have a strong interest in the coin's future
- Addresses or votes that control stolen coins can possibly be "ignored" by some means


All coin developers please take note of this and consider it seriously.


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July 13, 2014, 11:27:33 PM
 #7986


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.

Centralization to me means the conglomeration of power into a single entity or geographic location.
In my opinion this applies to how trading in Vericoin was centered around Mintpal.
Hence centralization and a single point of failure.

The alternative being decentralization. The epitome of which: peer to peer trading and no middlemen or exchanges.

Thieves will always exploit exploitable systems.
If you protect exploitable systems you protect the thieves.
eiskalt
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July 13, 2014, 11:29:43 PM
 #7987

As much as I've been a supporter of VeriCoin... a fork to roll back the blockchain is a very tough pill to swallow. Have to say I'm with dadams.

I saw three big rollbacks of transactions at mtgox. A fall from 17.50 to 0.0001, a fall from around 15 to 3 and a spike from around 10 to 1000000. Mtgox altered the trade history - was it a problem for investors at that time to stick with mtgox and bring the price to 1200 a year or two later?

buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:30:44 PM
 #7988

As much as I've been a supporter of VeriCoin... a fork to roll back the blockchain is a very tough pill to swallow. Have to say I'm with dadams.

At this early stage, 2 months into a crypto, you think its so devastating?

You dont think the media picks this up as a better alternative to a gox style blow out? You dont think this will attract the people VeriCoin is going for?



This could be the biggest FUD turned pot of GOLD if they get this right. The dev team spent all day making the fix, I bet you it shows the quality of our team at work.

I wonder how many people offered support to the devs and how many came to FUD the community.

Its very telling what crypto has become, instead of bringing in new markets, everyone has a laser focus on taking down the competition. Wake up people, crypto needs more investors and people in the ecosystem.

How many times have you heard of mt gox. How many times do you think you will hear about VeriCoin, and to the outside world, not comprised of coders and computer nerds... They will start coming to vericoin over bitcoin as they will see vericoin as the SAFE alternative to bitcoin and being goxed.

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buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:33:39 PM
 #7989


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.

Centralization to me means the conglomeration of power into a single entity or geographic location.
In my opinion this applies to how trading in Vericoin was centered around Mintpal.
Hence centralization and a single point of failure.

The alternative being decentralization. The epitome of which: peer to peer trading and no middlemen or exchanges.

Thieves will always exploit exploitable systems.
If you protect exploitable systems you protect the thieves.

This makes no sense. How is this solution protecting thieves? they lost 2 million dollars in ill gotten gains, nothing about the thieves was protected, furthermore I hope they take action to prosecute the responsible party, or parties.

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July 13, 2014, 11:33:51 PM
 #7990


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.

Centralization to me means the conglomeration of power into a single entity or geographic location.
In my opinion this applies to how trading in Vericoin was centered around Mintpal.
Hence centralization and a single point of failure.

The alternative being decentralization. The epitome of which: peer to peer trading and no middlemen or exchanges.

Thieves will always exploit exploitable systems.
If you protect exploitable systems you protect the thieves.


Exactly and by hardforking the system shows, that it cannot be exploited.
The system of laissez-faire, that you are dreaming of will always be exploited - even if you meet your peers on the street to exchange some coins, what will you do, if they bring a knife to trade with you?
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July 13, 2014, 11:34:49 PM
 #7991


All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.
Without them you would have what exactly? A digital coin that only has your own personal value? Great idea! Grin



A digital coin with my personal value and the personal value of other people like me?
Without banks? A coin that I can use to trade with anyone without paying homage or fees to middlemen?
Are you mocking me for this?

Because yes.. that is my desire and my dream.
Why are you here?
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July 13, 2014, 11:35:08 PM
 #7992

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

Because it is an easy target... if you own 4.5 million coins. Or, in the immortal words of Gordon Gekko, because "it can be done, damnit!". A 51% attack is a guaranteed success. The Black Hand owns 4.5 million VRC.

Quite simple, really.

Iconic Expert stay the fuck outta this thread you lying sack of shit I wouldn't be surprised if you had something to do with the hack
buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:36:18 PM
 #7993


All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.
Without them you would have what exactly? A digital coin that only has your own personal value? Great idea! Grin



A digital coin with my personal value and the personal value of other people like me?
Without banks? A coin that I can use to trade with anyone without paying homage or fees to middlemen?
Are you mocking me for this?

Because yes.. that is my desire and my dream.
Why are you here?


what happens if the power is turned out, everyone is on even playing field again?

I think this hybrid system offers the most security.

Fiat and crypto combined is heaven, 1 or the other makes no sense.

Use them both, each has a benefit. in conjunction they are great, alone they each have to many vulnerabilities

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July 13, 2014, 11:39:29 PM
 #7994

vericoin lol
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July 13, 2014, 11:41:30 PM
 #7995

Um ya... I'm with Dadams.  I'm glad that they're going to rollback so that people don't lose their coins, however now you've just set the precedence that you can keep your coins on an exchange, with no protection or insurance, and if the exchange gets hacked and you lose your coins, eh... no big deal.  We'll just rollback.  Now you have a central regulating authority deciding that, which by the way goes against the principles and ideology of what crypto currency is in the first place.  Make Mintpal accountable for this attack.  It was their system that wasn't secure in the first place.  Hard fork the coin, and make Mintpal be the example for all exchanges that if they're going to be in business, they need to tighten up their security, plain and simple.  Mintpal somehow then has to reimburse all coin holders who lost their coins.  Yes it would probably bankrupt them, and they probably wouldn't survive.  I don't think I'm being callous.  If people want a system of protection, then put your money in a bank.  A bank's insured, in the states, by the U.S. Treasury via the FDIC.  Or, keep your coins in your wallet, leave them there for staking, and backup your wallet with multiple backups to different locations.  I'm sorry, but you assume the risk if you keep your coins on exchanges.

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July 13, 2014, 11:41:40 PM
 #7996

this is how vericoin inverstors looks like now Grin Kiss

 

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mushroomfour9
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July 13, 2014, 11:41:50 PM
 #7997

I  have vrc  on mintpal, what will happen if vrc  does a hardfork?
Dadams
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July 13, 2014, 11:42:20 PM
 #7998


Exactly and by hardforking the system shows, that it cannot be exploited.
The system of laissez-faire, that you are dreaming of will always be exploited - even if you meet your peers on the street to exchange some coins, what will you do, if they bring a knife to trade with you?

It shows that there are no consequences for the people that made this possible.
Which is why it will happen again.
Mintpal will carry on.
People will still daytrade and leave massive amounts of coin on exchanges.
No solution will be sought because look "we solved the problem.. all you need is a fork!"
The thieves have not lost anything. They did not have anything to start with.

Forking is not the solution. It is a a bandaid on cancer.
It is scooping out water from a sinking ship instead of fixing the hole in the hull.

P.S buy4crypto: if you believe fiat is necessary for the future, then I think we will have to agree to disagree
buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:43:59 PM
 #7999

this is how vericoin inverstors looks like now

 

On the contrary, after the weak hand day flippers are out and the fudders go, this coin will continue to grow. When you want quality in a dev team, innovation and support, you will buy vericoins.

When you want a PnD, you will go with whatever next flavor of the month they put out tomorrow to pump n dump.

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████ - freecrypto.top - btcinfo.top - DIGITAL CURRENCY DIRECTORIES - freeMonero.comfunbtc.xyz  ████
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buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:45:07 PM
 #8000


Exactly and by hardforking the system shows, that it cannot be exploited.
The system of laissez-faire, that you are dreaming of will always be exploited - even if you meet your peers on the street to exchange some coins, what will you do, if they bring a knife to trade with you?

It shows that there are no consequences for the people that made this possible.
Which is why it will happen again.
Mintpal will carry on.
People will still daytrade and leave massive amounts of coin on exchanges.
No solution will be sought because look "we solved the problem.. all you need is a fork!"
The thieves have not lost anything. They did not have anything to start with.

Forking is not the solution. It is a a bandaid on cancer.
It is scooping out water from a sinking ship instead of fixing the hole in the hull.

P.S buy4crypto: if you believe fiat is necessary for the future, then I think we will have to agree to disagree

I think having all money tied to the power grid is scarier than centralized currencies.

1 comet comes and knocks the grid offline, how many 51% attacks you think could occur?

I prefer having a system where you have the ability to use both.

Im not talking today, or tomorrow, but if its the future, it would happen at some point. Surely a pure online currency reliant on a power grid system of trade is not the way.

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