[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[buy4crypto]

rollback? how about calling it a chargeback

a thing that shouldn't be possible in cryptos, but you guys are now trying to sell me this as something positive

some funny PR guys here

Thieves don't steal millions, And thats bad PR? To much of a crypto purist to see whats holding back adoption? Normal people don't care for thievery of there money, buddy.

[loges]

This may be a dumb question, but did the total supply just go down 30%? That's how I read the hard fork and mintpal reimbursement.

[buy4crypto]

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  

This is exactly what I am talking about. The trust factor will go down the toilet.

The VRC devs obviously are willing to take on a business's inadequacy to secure their users VRC on their exchange. Let's wait for the next VRC hack or scam that happens...watch as the rumbles of hypocrisy take shape.

Bad decision by the devs. Their credibility went out the door.

To you, and went up with a majority of other people. Sure the price might go down a bit in the first few minutes as people panic and re-asses, I will be shocked if this stays down for long however.

Dogecoin got big because of MEDIA am i correct? It was a dog face coin with big community that grew from media.

Vericoin will benefit in time, people will see the quality of developers and community and come here.

I dont think I seen a normal fudder here today, All these people are 100% new, and that means they are thinking about vericoin now.

[smoothie]

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses 

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

% is not an argument. The fact that a business fucked up in their security of their customers' VRC is not the devs problem. But obviously the devs want to make it their problem.

VRC hacks and scams will come with expectations now in the future. "Hey someone hacked my personal VRC wallet...can you VRC devs roll back and hard fork the blockchain so I can get my coins back?"

Utter BS.

[eiskalt]

And the BTC fork for that 184 million exploited coins was for development?  Yes I know you previously try to explain how that wasn't the same.  Facts are, someone illicitly grabbed a bunch of coins, and the community reacted to negate it.  No two scenarios are the same and must be resolved differently.  

Nobody grabbed illicit coins... someone exploited a flaw to generate more coins then they should while mining a block.  It was a protocol level flaw in bitcoin that was fixed.  Yes, that was a development mistake, and a hardfork was necessary (the fix made the new blockchain incompatible with the old blockchain, and that 184million coin block was orphaned as a result).  The VRC action is totally different.  VRC IS NOT SUGGESTING A HARDFORK - the devs aren't fixing anything.  They are acting for benefit of an exchange and third party to the protocol.

Rolling-back a blockchain is unbelievably contrary to a decentralized ledger.  That, is the key.

A bookkeeper who "fudges" the books, has no place being trusted to keep the public ledger. Pressure is moot.

They are not acting for the benefit of an exchange, because there would be no legal obligation for the exchange to reimburse customers. Again you seem to not like the idea, that a thieve will hold an empty bag.

[InvestorPerson]

rollback? how about calling it a chargeback

a thing that shouldn't be possible in cryptos, but you guys are now trying to sell me this as something positive

some funny PR guys here

Thieves don't steal millions, And thats bad PR? To much of a crypto purist to see whats holding back adoption? Normal people don't care for thievery of there money, buddy.

you are trying damn hard to get people to put more money into VRC once it's back. slow down man, you might trip and fall

[smoothie]

People should take note of this. Not because of the hack, but because of the immediate step-up of the developers to defend the integrity of the coin.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe the bar has effectively been raised.

+10

But thing about it widely:

1) Conclusion is that VRC is valuable to 8m /27 *100%  = 30% attacks...not 51%

2) Big hit into decentralization image of VRC "rolbacks" - shows that crypto is not decentralized coin...
So fork BTC before MtGox that way...

Are you mad that the developers of VRC took the proper action, while bitcoin let there community lose?

VeriCoin will take the lead in due time. Its got to many people that care.

soooo wait... i just bought a car with vericoins... and so i got the car... and so now the network will be rolled back to a date prior to me buying the car?  so now i have the car and all my vericoins back?  so now I can buy another car..... .sweet.

Anyone who sent coins from the time the hack occurred (where they will roll back to) to the current time...can essentially DOUBLE SPEND their coins.

EPIC fail.  

[healthandwealth]

Speaking of panic selling...when (or if) coins are restored on Mintpal...what kind of a percentage dump are people estimating?  

I was thinking anywhere from 25-50%.  

As bad as this sounds...it would seem to be a prime time opportunity to (new) buyers.  

Regardless of what happens...I foresee Vericoin rising 10-100x by years end.

So if you have some now...hold and stake.  Unless you swing trade at exchanges...then tread carefully.

[smoothie]

I personally am very excited by this. I know this may be a scary time for the people who currently have VRC missing, but think of the precedent this is setting!

Never in the history of money has there been the ability to just "Rollback" to a point prior to a theft. This is like if bank robbers got away with 2 million dollars, and the next day the money was back in their vault, while the robbers are now magically holding worthless monopoly money.

This really has the potential to change the way that the world sees crypto - it is a tangible benefit that fiat money will never be able to provide. If it goes off smoothly I have no doubt we'll see this in Forbes at the minimum, since they already are fairly crypto-friendly.

This is the new age Bank Bail out....by hard forking. Get with the program lol...so messed up.

[buy4crypto]

rollback? how about calling it a chargeback

a thing that shouldn't be possible in cryptos, but you guys are now trying to sell me this as something positive

some funny PR guys here

Thieves don't steal millions, And thats bad PR? To much of a crypto purist to see whats holding back adoption? Normal people don't care for thievery of there money, buddy.

you are trying damn hard to get people to put more money into VRC once it's back. slow down man, you might trip and fall

You think I am here trying to sell. And I guess if you listened to me at 10k, blah blah blah. Or when I bought my domains months ago under 10k satoshi. But I guess you can call me a pumper cause this is your first time here. Interesting huh? But you know it all.

[btminer8]

People should take note of this. Not because of the hack, but because of the immediate step-up of the developers to defend the integrity of the coin.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe the bar has effectively been raised.

+10

But thing about it widely:

1) Conclusion is that VRC is valuable to 8m /27 *100%  = 30% attacks...not 51%

2) Big hit into decentralization image of VRC "rolbacks" - shows that crypto is not decentralized coin...
So fork BTC before MtGox that way...

Are you mad that the developers of VRC took the proper action, while bitcoin let there community lose?

VeriCoin will take the lead in due time. Its got to many people that care.

Any business that is incompetent to handle customer funds and property should be held liable without a "bail out" in the form of a hard fork through the VRC devs. This will set a precedent for things to come. Watch the next exchange that gets hacked or person will cry foul and expect the VRC devs to roll back the block chain and if they don't they will be then hypocrites.

Yup, i agree with you but there are pros and cons on both sides. Doing the opposite will also set another precedent for things to come. Watch the next exchange/coin gets hacked and watch the thief get away with it cause the communities allows them to.

If this is the mindset of crypto currency, would outside money risk their money investing into crypto? Be careful what you ask for.

[smoothie]

I personally am very excited by this. I know this may be a scary time for the people who currently have VRC missing, but think of the precedent this is setting!

Never in the history of money has there been the ability to just "Rollback" to a point prior to a theft. This is like if bank robbers got away with 2 million dollars, and the next day the money was back in their vault, while the robbers are now magically holding worthless monopoly money.

This really has the potential to change the way that the world sees crypto - it is a tangible benefit that fiat money will never be able to provide. If it goes off smoothly I have no doubt we'll see this in Forbes at the minimum, since they already are fairly crypto-friendly.

This is the new age Bank Bail out....by hard forking. Get with the program lol...so messed up.

[buy4crypto]

I personally am very excited by this. I know this may be a scary time for the people who currently have VRC missing, but think of the precedent this is setting!

Never in the history of money has there been the ability to just "Rollback" to a point prior to a theft. This is like if bank robbers got away with 2 million dollars, and the next day the money was back in their vault, while the robbers are now magically holding worthless monopoly money.

This really has the potential to change the way that the world sees crypto - it is a tangible benefit that fiat money will never be able to provide. If it goes off smoothly I have no doubt we'll see this in Forbes at the minimum, since they already are fairly crypto-friendly.

This is the new age Bank Bail out....by hard forking. Get with the program lol...so messed up.

Why are you so interested in letting the thieves away with the money?

[nvminer]

I am a senior member in this bitcointalk forum, but I want to remain anonymous.
I noticed Vericoin discussion when go to Altcoin ANN, and here is some of my insight:

First, a few questions:

1. Did mintpal really lost Vericoin, because of being hacked?
After reading their official announcement, the information is rather vague. Is there a possibility that coins are withdrawn by some big bagholders? Is there possibility that coins are sold by Mintpal (or its personnel) to other people and then they want to reverse the transaction while not paying the money back?

2. Vericoin was hacked, while other coins, including Bitcoin, was intact. Is it because the problem of Vericoin blockchain, or because of the safety hazard in Mintpal?

3. Vericoin group decided to roll-back the blockchain, is this a result after a deliberate consideration, or not?

4. If a small Altcoin-Bitcoin exchange site get compromised, will the Vericoin team do the same thing to roll back?

Then a few insights:

Cryptocurrency is created to be de-centralized. By reversing some transactions through the intervention of development team, it goes against its initial objective.

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

my two satoshi

[pnosker]

The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.

With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.

We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.

We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.

Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.

[tigerwood0432]

What if US federal reserve was stolen ? and 3000 (3 thousands ) billion dollars where stolen ?? What governement will do ? Dollar is a currency , vrc is a currency too (a crypto-currency) . So what do you think govermnement will do ? Extrem situations requires extrem decisions .

[eiskalt]

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses 

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

% is not an argument. The fact that a business fucked up in their security of their customers' VRC is not the devs problem. But obviously the devs want to make it their problem.

VRC hacks and scams will come with expectations now in the future. "Hey someone hacked my personal VRC wallet...can you VRC devs roll back and hard fork the blockchain so I can get my coins back?"

Utter BS.

Yeah, because all the hacks and thefts stopped with bitcoin, because the DEVs always refuted to step in.

[buy4crypto]

The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.

With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.

We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.

We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.

Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.

You guys made the right descision and in time you will be rewarded. Thank you for caring about the community and stepping up, when many others step away. You are setting a the bar high for every crypto developer going. Happy to be a part of the community that we are creating at vericoin!

[RW-Stott]

With that said, we will not be doing this again.

What's to stop you from hardforking again if another 8m coins were stolen?

Utter bullshit...

[smoothie]

Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses 

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

Its about the integrity of the blockchain. Who decides whether Mintpal was actually hacked or not? Apparently a mail from MintpalJason to a developer is enough today. Also note that this has nothing to do with this community. Mintpal probably has enough BTC to refund the VRC losses anyway, and they either would refund or die, since it is their fault.

What happens here is saving the fundings of an exchange (not community) at the expense of the blockchain integrity.

This ^ Mintpal has the burden of proof that they were in fact hacked and NOT just claim they were hacked. How do we know they didn't steal the coins and convert some to BTC?