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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1346463 times)
buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:00:11 PM
 #7981

Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.

I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!

to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.



And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.

For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.

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buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:02:34 PM
 #7982


It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.


Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.


Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.

Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.

Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.

You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack.  Are you thick?  There is no choice

There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.

Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.

Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.

Choice 2.....

So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?

Am I missing something?

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Lucksee
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July 13, 2014, 11:05:51 PM
 #7983

Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.

I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!

to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.



And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.

For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.

I think this makes sense, too.
tigerwood0432
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July 13, 2014, 11:06:32 PM
 #7984

Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.

I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!

to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.



And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.

For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.



You are right all medias worldwide will talk about vrc ,television , radios , newspapers , business magazines , ......etc . bringing new vrc investors . VRC PRICE WILL GO TO VERY HIGH LEVELS (may be it will be more expensive than LTC right now) . Whales will buy huge vrc amounts from noobs dump . >> then PRICE will explode Smiley




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CryptoPay


  GET IT NOW
Dadams
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July 13, 2014, 11:06:50 PM
 #7985


It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.


Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.


Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.

Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.

Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.

You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack.  Are you thick?  There is no choice

There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.

Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.

Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.

Choice 2.....

So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?

Am I missing something? You make no sense

I'm definitely not ok with rollback.
That way you just protect a broken system.
Mintpal, who is partially at fault here, suffers none.
People who trust centralized systems don't learn not to.
It will set a ridiculous precedent.
Maybe we should also immediately start forming the senate that decides what theft is big enough to warrant a rollback and who it will benefit?

In fork:
hacker does not get coins and the fear of 51% attack goes away.
Mintpal and daytraders lose lots of money.
People learn once again not to trust exchanges.
Maybe one day this will sink in and we will have peer to peer trading.

Either way there is meddling by dev and central bodies which is against the underlying principles.
madjules007
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July 13, 2014, 11:08:30 PM
 #7986

Patrick Nosker ‏@pnosker 10m

New #VeriCoin Fork Formed Successfully! Mandatory wallet update to come shortly. #VRC

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RISE
buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:08:58 PM
 #7987

Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.

I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!

to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.



And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.

For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.



You are right all medias worldwide will talk about vrc ,television , radios , newspapers , business magazines , ......etc . bringing new vrc investors . VRC PRICE WILL GO TO VERY HIGH LEVELS (may be it will be more expensive than LTC right now) . Whales will buy huge vrc amounts from noobs dump . >> then PRICE will explode Smiley




I heard how bad Gox was, and I heard it a lot. Why would it be wrong to think VeriCoin comes through this stronger than ever? They are doing it RIGHT. these people saying let the theives have the money need to wake up and have there btc gone, I bet you those same people sign a different tune. As for me, not 1 coin comprimised, but I am happy the community sticks together to fight for the 30% who lost it, even if it effects the 70% in a negative way.

Thats what VeriCoin does, we stick together.

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Fippy
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July 13, 2014, 11:10:52 PM
 #7988

Everyone do yourself a favor and thing long and hard about this...

The value of any currency, be it fiat or crypto, is not in the currency itself but the value placed upon those that back it. Be it a government, or developers, or a community that uses and accepts it, the currency is worth no more than the faith that those who use it place in that which stands behind it.

I choose to invest in and hold Vericoin not because it is worth 31k Satoshi each. I do not choose to hold Vericoin because it is high profile and has a good likelihood of getting pumped. I choose to hold Vericoin because it is backed by developers that have a vision for the coin, the skills to make it happen, and a track record of success in things they put their hands to.

The events of today have only reaffirmed that Vericoin is backed by people who will step up, when so many others would have simply slunk away.


"Bitcoin is dead, Litecoin is dead, Blackcoin is dead, Dogecoin is dead, Vericoin is dead..." The list goes on and on and you screaming fucktards have yet to once be right. This song and dance is getting old, lets change the beat.
buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:12:18 PM
 #7989


It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.


Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.


Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.

Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.

Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.

You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack.  Are you thick?  There is no choice

There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.

Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.

Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.

Choice 2.....

So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?

Am I missing something? You make no sense

I'm definitely not ok with rollback.
That way you just protect a broken system.
Mintpal, who is partially at fault here, suffers none.
People who trust centralized systems don't learn not to.

In fork:
hacker does not get coins and the fear of 51% attack goes away.
Mintpal and daytraders lose lots of money.
People learn once again not to trust exchanges.
Maybe one day this will sink in and we will have peer to peer trading.

Either way there is meddling by dev and central bodies which is against the underlying principles.


Look at VRC team vision, they are trying to be a payment portal more than a crypto. They want to bring blockchain technology to everyone. VeriCoin is trying to go mainstream and bring in more people to the complete eco-system.

VeriCoin should be championed by the ENTIRE crypto community as its the first crypto willing to break the stigma bitcoin has laid out.

This has been my point for weeks, bitcoin has a super nerd stigma, and paranoid banker stigma, VeriCoin is going after normal people who wish to know that the developers prefer to prevent theft, rather than screw them over to make a couple hardcore crypto purists happy.

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buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:12:54 PM
 #7990

Not everyone has to know how to code, or be a super nerd to invest in crypto.

VeriCoin is breaking the mold, and will succeed as long as the community stays strong in the face of the enemies trying to bring it down.

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eiskalt
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July 13, 2014, 11:17:59 PM
 #7991


It's pretty obvious at this point money cannot exist without some central trust.
Day in and day out watching crypto in it's current state it's pretty clear now.
Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.


Satoshi Nakamoto did thankfully.


Rollback will be the death of Vericoin.

Fork making the stolen coins disappear would be bad as well but better than a rollback.
If the aim is to stop the thief from profiting then that would work as well.

Rollback would be better for Mintpal.
In a fork I would expect them to work hard to pay for their security lapse and pay back their customers.

You still don't get or ignore the fact that 8 million coins staking would cause a 51% attack.  Are you thick?  There is no choice

There is always a choice.
The best "tech purist" choice? Leave it be and see what happens.
Bitcoin designed so that it is not in anyones best interest to break.
If 51% attack is now possible, so easily done and in the best interest to abuse, then Vericoin is broken and should die.

Second choice:
Fork to destroy coins. This way no profit or control for thief.
People who had all their money on Mintpal to day trade lose out and learn a lesson.

Third choice:
Rollback.
You know how I feel about this.

Choice 2.....

So, you are okay with forking, as long as the people do not get there money back who had it stolen?

Am I missing something? You make no sense

I'm definitely not ok with rollback.
That way you just protect a broken system.
Mintpal, who is partially at fault here, suffers none.
People who trust centralized systems don't learn not to.
It will set a ridiculous precedent.

Maybe we should also immediately start forming the senate that decides what theft is big enough to warrant a rollback and who it will benefit?

In fork:
hacker does not get coins and the fear of 51% attack goes away.
Mintpal and daytraders lose lots of money.
People learn once again not to trust exchanges.
Maybe one day this will sink in and we will have peer to peer trading.

Either way there is meddling by dev and central bodies which is against the underlying principles.


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.
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July 13, 2014, 11:20:38 PM
 #7992

As much as I've been a supporter of VeriCoin... a fork to roll back the blockchain is a very tough pill to swallow. Have to say I'm with dadams.
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July 13, 2014, 11:25:47 PM
 #7993

Yes, today we learned that centralized services, centralized ownership (1/3 being hot in Mintpal alone says everything) and centralized authority (rollback to save $2m worth of VRC that were most likely owned by VRC whales) just doesn't work in crypto. Decentralized is what makes crypto secure and VRC has absolutely none of that in any way shape or form.
From what I have read there are huge trust issues with standard coin and the fact that a person can cancel the transaction and keep your money. Why is that a better option than having your stolen money returned to you?


Developers cannot unilaterally fork a thing unless over half the wallets agree.  30% of the wallets are going to be against the fork already, making the 51% target much harder to reach.  Or am I wrong?
So it would be a better thing to play renegade and keep your imaginary coins? Or are you saying that you vote with an empty wallet? Roll Eyes

But VRC PoS vulnerabilities still remain.
Dude............every dang thing that exists has vulnerabilities, including your buttholio. The only difference is whether someone is interested enough and has enough persistence to find a way.

This really isn't making sense... The thief stole so much of the coin that if he were to get away with it, the coin would be worthless... And the way he went about it made it impossible for him to dump any of it...
Conspiratorial inclined would think that a competing exchange worked together with a competing coin in an attempt to shift the perception of the public. Playing on the fears of "loss" that seem rampant in this community.

We will just be updating to the new wallet they release and pop in our old .dat file and all is well?
That's my plan. And I feel that all is well.
Also meant to thank you for your help before, but the PM kept telling me that I just posted when I hadn't, and gave up after 5 times LoL!



Decentralized exchanges ........ which are trustless by design, are safer by definition. They are the future.
Bitcoin is attractive to thieves because its transactions are irreversible.

Sure, every exchange could be hacked, but it was Mintpal and not Poloniex/Bittrex/Cryptsy.

Think about it
What makes you think a competing exchange wasn't involved?

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?
So the concept called "tunnel reality" is seen to be in effect, which is the brain functioning in full to filter out what one does not believe in. It inevitably leads to cognitive dissonance. Cheesy

The people at fault here is Mintpal and the hacker.
Technically everyone involved is "at fault", anyone that chose to use an exchange, and anyone that chose to get involved in crytpocurrency. Fault involves all who made choices that have linked eachother together. Though you could logically say that someone "wronged" others, in which case it is not VRC nor Mintpal.

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...
Because they are about to hit the mainstream and cause quite a splash. Certain other "anonymous" elements wish to keep that from happening.

All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.
Without them you would have what exactly? A digital coin that only has your own personal value? Great idea! Grin

Ask yourself, if your other alts had this happen, what would the dev response have been?
I would guess that they would capitalize on their anonymity and disappear.

Not ready for a trustless system.

If someone finds a better way... go invent it - be my guest.
Anonymity is not exactly an answer for a system that thieves find comfort in. This is the cause of the resistance, the thieves considering a possible loss of freedom.

Decentralized (peer-to-peer) exchanges are the way forward. Would be awesome if VRC devs could implement this.
I was under the impression that they were going to offer both options. I assume they will continue, after some delays of course.

it soved in simply way one of POS problems
ONE problem..........as mentioned already, there will always exist vulnerabilities, it is impossible to be fully secure as long as thieves remain.

vrc: VBL3M6EzwcYZWeuDpgjG9bDQzTKb4ydiDy
YoyodyneSystems
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July 13, 2014, 11:26:46 PM
 #7994

Out of the chaos comes innovation.
Please implement the following in all coins from here on :

- A voting system that rewards 1 vote per coin
- This voting system can be used to see the true position of all coins holders on topics of interest
- This voting system can be used specifically to determine if a rollback should or should not occur
- Holding the vote inside the client instead of outside the client (such as an external site) gives true weight to opinions of actual coin holders
- It's not a perfect system but it is as close to "de-centralized" as we can come at this time
- It may give more voting "stock" to those that own more coins instead of individuals but those people should have a strong interest in the coin's future
- Addresses or votes that control stolen coins can possibly be "ignored" by some means


All coin developers please take note of this and consider it seriously.


Dadams
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July 13, 2014, 11:27:33 PM
 #7995


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.

Centralization to me means the conglomeration of power into a single entity or geographic location.
In my opinion this applies to how trading in Vericoin was centered around Mintpal.
Hence centralization and a single point of failure.

The alternative being decentralization. The epitome of which: peer to peer trading and no middlemen or exchanges.

Thieves will always exploit exploitable systems.
If you protect exploitable systems you protect the thieves.
eiskalt
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July 13, 2014, 11:29:43 PM
 #7996

As much as I've been a supporter of VeriCoin... a fork to roll back the blockchain is a very tough pill to swallow. Have to say I'm with dadams.

I saw three big rollbacks of transactions at mtgox. A fall from 17.50 to 0.0001, a fall from around 15 to 3 and a spike from around 10 to 1000000. Mtgox altered the trade history - was it a problem for investors at that time to stick with mtgox and bring the price to 1200 a year or two later?

buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:30:44 PM
 #7997

As much as I've been a supporter of VeriCoin... a fork to roll back the blockchain is a very tough pill to swallow. Have to say I'm with dadams.

At this early stage, 2 months into a crypto, you think its so devastating?

You dont think the media picks this up as a better alternative to a gox style blow out? You dont think this will attract the people VeriCoin is going for?



This could be the biggest FUD turned pot of GOLD if they get this right. The dev team spent all day making the fix, I bet you it shows the quality of our team at work.

I wonder how many people offered support to the devs and how many came to FUD the community.

Its very telling what crypto has become, instead of bringing in new markets, everyone has a laser focus on taking down the competition. Wake up people, crypto needs more investors and people in the ecosystem.

How many times have you heard of mt gox. How many times do you think you will hear about VeriCoin, and to the outside world, not comprised of coders and computer nerds... They will start coming to vericoin over bitcoin as they will see vericoin as the SAFE alternative to bitcoin and being goxed.

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buy4crypto
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July 13, 2014, 11:33:39 PM
 #7998


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.

Centralization to me means the conglomeration of power into a single entity or geographic location.
In my opinion this applies to how trading in Vericoin was centered around Mintpal.
Hence centralization and a single point of failure.

The alternative being decentralization. The epitome of which: peer to peer trading and no middlemen or exchanges.

Thieves will always exploit exploitable systems.
If you protect exploitable systems you protect the thieves.

This makes no sense. How is this solution protecting thieves? they lost 2 million dollars in ill gotten gains, nothing about the thieves was protected, furthermore I hope they take action to prosecute the responsible party, or parties.

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eiskalt
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July 13, 2014, 11:33:51 PM
 #7999


You are exposing the logic of a thieves´ mind here. By punishing victims and encouraging fraud we will get a better system? really?

And again, your usage of the word centralized is completely stupid. In that regard everything would be centralized. Maybe you have been exposed to to many buzzword feeds.

Centralization to me means the conglomeration of power into a single entity or geographic location.
In my opinion this applies to how trading in Vericoin was centered around Mintpal.
Hence centralization and a single point of failure.

The alternative being decentralization. The epitome of which: peer to peer trading and no middlemen or exchanges.

Thieves will always exploit exploitable systems.
If you protect exploitable systems you protect the thieves.


Exactly and by hardforking the system shows, that it cannot be exploited.
The system of laissez-faire, that you are dreaming of will always be exploited - even if you meet your peers on the street to exchange some coins, what will you do, if they bring a knife to trade with you?
Dadams
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July 13, 2014, 11:34:49 PM
 #8000


All hail the protection of the middlemen.
God protect our bankers.
God protect our exchangers and money lenders.
God protect our daytraders and manipulators.
Without them you would have what exactly? A digital coin that only has your own personal value? Great idea! Grin



A digital coin with my personal value and the personal value of other people like me?
Without banks? A coin that I can use to trade with anyone without paying homage or fees to middlemen?
Are you mocking me for this?

Because yes.. that is my desire and my dream.
Why are you here?
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