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Question: Where would you prefer the VRC/VRM exchange pair be?
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Poloniex
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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1342278 times)
kd5zgl
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July 13, 2014, 09:58:26 PM
 #7921

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*
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YoyodyneSystems
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July 13, 2014, 09:58:41 PM
 #7922

BTC was forked 100 times
LTC  forked many times
DRK forked twice last month

.........................ETC ................


VRC FORKED NOW  . SO WHAT ?
socal
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July 13, 2014, 10:00:19 PM
 #7923

Well what I see is a few people for the rollback I really don't see the issue with it you like to say "oh bitcoin never did this bitcoin never did this" but there's two MAJOR ISSUES with that argument. FIRST AND FOR MOST VERICOIN IS NOT BITCOIN. Secondly Bitcoin has never had 30% of all coins stolen, bet you money something would be done if it did happen to bitcoin though.

 So all in all I believe the Devs are doing the right thing and yes there will invariably be a dump after the exchanges unfreeze but I'm excited for it because that means once again I get to take VRC out of the hands of idiot day traders and weak hands for cheap and put them in my nice long term staking wallet to actually support VRC
BadAss.Sx
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July 13, 2014, 10:02:03 PM
 #7924

But the meaning of a decentralized exchange has been set again.

Need BadAss Bulletproof VPS or Bulletproof VPN or why not just mail safe with Safe-Mail. We care about your privacy.
barabbas
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July 13, 2014, 10:02:26 PM
 #7925


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



There is a reason why Bitcoin transactions aren't arbitrarily reversed after thefts.

There shouldn't be a rollback. A hardfork to undo this is worse than the thief dumping the coins. Mintpal are just trying to erase their losses here.

Apples & oranges @ no time was almost 30% of ALL BTC stolen.

Firstly, it makes no difference just because it's a large number. Decentralisation and irreversibility are the two fundamental underpinning tenets of Bitcoin. I guarantee you, long term, Vericoin price will be hurt more by doing this rollback than just leaving it be. No new future investors will touch a coin that does something like this. Either way the price will be damaged by this, if some of you are naive enough to think a dirty rollback will "fix everything" and the price will carry on as normal, you are going to be in for a shock.

Secondly, there is not much of a difference between doing this once and doing it for every theft. It's a dangerous precedent.


 You "guarantee" a lot of shit, that's what you "guarantee". As a matter of fact if EVERY THEFT is reversed, that would indeed guaranteed no thefts at all. And the cryptyo community needs that dearly to gain any semblance of credibility in the real world.

Oh and by the way, I am going to believe that you, Mr. Random, are indeed involved in this theft. Just like I would consider anyone who defends that a massive theft goes unpunished.

I am wired that way.
Dadams
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July 13, 2014, 10:02:49 PM
 #7926

NOISE

Precedent of a rollback would be horrible.
Rollback is not possible without losing all credibility.
What the hell is the use of a cryptocurrency if this is the way it will be played.
How many rollbacks in the future?
Oh hell I made a mistake in my payment, lets just roll it all back.
Might as well just stick to central banks and credit cards.
Why not lobby to get BTC rolled back to before MTGOX lost all money?
People lost way more there.
No rollback.
No fork.

The people at fault here is Mintpal and the hacker.

Only person who can actually save vericoin at this stage is the hacker.
Funny thought.
Seldar
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July 13, 2014, 10:02:59 PM
 #7927

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!

I'm not a VC supporter, but I can't stop being revolted by Mintpal's behaviour.
They make an horrible mistake with their poor security and then they asked (or threatened ?) the devs to reverse the blockchain...
Poor devs, all their work beeing destroyed like that because of a so bad company...

Sorry for my bad english Smiley
eiskalt
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July 13, 2014, 10:04:51 PM
 #7928


so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.



What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?
 
Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.
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July 13, 2014, 10:05:33 PM
 #7929

But the meaning of a decentralized exchange has been set again.


A majority of stakeholders have to agree on the fork.  Without forking now, there will be a single entity that can make the blockchain fork.  If we do fork now it takes away the power to do that.


Edit:  and I believe that, in this case, there is a general agreement among stakeholders to fork.
Yuzu
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July 13, 2014, 10:07:40 PM
 #7930

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!



Uh, no.  If you have the gold and you gave another man the VRC for it, then HE gets his VRC back while you have the gold.  So everything is still even.
barabbas
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July 13, 2014, 10:08:52 PM
 #7931

How many rolls back in the future is the question?

The clear answer: As many as situations grant. Any and all thefts will be reversed. How's that for assurance, transparency and honesty?

Ultimately VRC will be worth what its community determines and supports. What's with all these familiar names (all associated one way or5 another with BC and The Black Hand, by the way) that never ever posted here and now come to post shit against hard forking and leaving the thieves with nothing? People add two plu two, come on!
Dadams
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July 13, 2014, 10:09:10 PM
 #7932


so what happens if such a centralized dev team gets leaned upon by gov which includes a gag order not to say they are being leaned upon?

it looks like a single point off failure.



What assures you that this didn´t already happen to bitcoin or any other coin?
 
Here it is about theft of peoples property and if the only tool you have left to discourage theft is a hardfork, than it is the right thing to do. Yes, it is experimental but at some point it has to be done by someone anyway.

No.
The answer is not to protect broken systems.
The answer is to create better systems that can't be broken.
If people have not learned NOT to trust centralized things like Mintpal and Mtgox.. here is another lesson for you.
Everyone else take note.
You have money on Poloniex? Bittrex? Bter? anywhere else centralized? This can happen to you.
stormia
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July 13, 2014, 10:09:17 PM
 #7933

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!



Uh, no.  If you have the gold and you gave another man the VRC for it, then HE gets his VRC back while you have the gold.  So everything is still even.

Not if the exchange of VRC for gold happened after the attack
alwa1
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July 13, 2014, 10:09:28 PM
 #7934

NOISE

Precedent of a rollback would be horrible.
Rollback is not possible without losing all credibility.
What the hell is the use of a cryptocurrency if this is the way it will be played.
How many rollbacks in the future?
Oh hell I made a mistake in my payment, lets just roll it all back.
Might as well just stick to central banks and credit cards.
Why not lobby to get BTC rolled back to before MTGOX lost all money?
People lost way more there.
No rollback.
No fork.

The people at fault here is Mintpal and the hacker.

Only person who can actually save vericoin at this stage is the hacker.
Funny thought.

Maybe the hacker will want ransom in BTC Cheesy
stormia
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July 13, 2014, 10:10:37 PM
 #7935

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...
adaseb
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July 13, 2014, 10:11:07 PM
 #7936

Well this is exactly what greed and fear do to people

Just like the stock markets


Just let them rollback. Nothing will go wrong

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Yuzu
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July 13, 2014, 10:11:39 PM
 #7937

here's the problem with a rollback: You sell me 100 oz. of GOLD, not fiat, not bitcoin, not pork bellies (tho the pork bellies wld be same as Au) for an equivalent amount of VRC.

You and I agree that VRC has value, so we agree to the exchange, I send you VRC, you ship me gold coins.

A bad man steals many VRC from MintPal. Blockchain gets rolled back. I get my VRC back.

*But I Still Have Your Gold.*

You win the arguments fight, end of discussion!



Uh, no.  If you have the gold and you gave another man the VRC for it, then HE gets his VRC back while you have the gold.  So everything is still even.

Not if the exchange of VRC for gold happened after the attack

That's extremely unlikely if the exchange caught the theft quickly.
alwa1
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July 13, 2014, 10:12:29 PM
 #7938

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...
maybe because it was expected a huge volume incoming weeks… everything is just speculation now
Artoodeetoo
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July 13, 2014, 10:13:08 PM
 #7939

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

PRobably because it had the most in its hot wallet...

DASH #DashDC #DashIntoDigitalCash
barabbas
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July 13, 2014, 10:13:26 PM
 #7940

I just want to know why they targeted only VRC...

Because it is an easy target... if you own 4.5 million coins. Or, in the immortal words of Gordon Gekko, because "it can be done, damnit!". A 51% attack is a guaranteed success. The Black Hand owns 4.5 million VRC.

Quite simple, really.
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