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Question: Where would you prefer the VRC/VRM exchange pair be?
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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1342962 times)
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July 14, 2014, 04:29:59 AM
 #8321


Your idealism blinds you from logic.
Rollback is the most logical and rational choice in this particular case.

If you think that Bitcoin and it's community would not do whatever it could to survive a similar size attack - you are a fool.

-- Please remember this is an experimental technology. There are few rules here.
-- Putting idealism before experimentation will not lead to advancement of Crypto.
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July 14, 2014, 04:30:14 AM
 #8322

Just woke up and has there been anything official yet?

What will happen to our VRC in Mintpal? I notice that my VRC are still listed but is not being estimated as BTC amount & the market is of course still closed.

Probably not safe to withdraw BTC from MP to wallet now so I'll wait on official word, but would be nice to know whats going to happen to my VRC on MP.

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July 14, 2014, 04:30:20 AM
 #8323

wow the retards on here....

OK FIRST OFF:

How the hell has the integrity of VRC been lost? Because we didn't let some fucking hacker have his way with the coin and get away scott free and tens of thousands of dollars richer?! ya, FUCK THAT! I dunno bout you dumbass FUDsters that came here just to talk shit but I like criminal fucksticks NOT profiting off of me or anyone else.

Secondly:

THIS WAS NOT AN EXPLOIT OF VERICOIN OR THE DEVS CODE THIS WAS PURELY A MASSIVE FUCKING SECURITY FUCKUP ON MINTPALS END

There, hope I laid some of you stupid FUDsters to rest with that and if not IDGAF, shut the fuck up and move out cause I'm tired of your constant blatant lies and retarded, inane "opinions"
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July 14, 2014, 04:30:25 AM
 #8324

Was hard to catch up in this thread since I went out to the soccer game. I can understand that having 30% of the coins under the control of a single person is dangerous in a coin-age principle PoS system - especially when this person got them for free. Still I can not support this roll back.

First, as mentioned in a post before, what if someone bought goods for VRC a couple of hours ago? From what I see you can currently take advantage of the fact that the upcoming rollback is not known to everyone and purchase things on the current blockchain which soon will be obsolete. Who is responsible for these losses?

Secondly, I don't see why a full rollback is necessary. You could also just remove these coin outputs through a mandatory client update, effectively reducing the supply of VRC but keeping all transactions that use other coin outputs valid. This way the integrity of the blockchain would remain to some extend, but the coins stolen would be worthless.

Of course, Mintpal would not like this solution, but the community should prefer it and the 51% attack would be avoided.  

The fact that someone could have traded a shit load of VRC for other coins and now will get the VRC back AND get to keep the coins they traded for is ridiculous.

Stolen coins has not moved or sold on exchanges.
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July 14, 2014, 04:30:30 AM
 #8325

Everyone in the VeriCoin community should try to get as much coin on personal storage as possible to prevent future attacks. We have a bright future and people know it.

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July 14, 2014, 04:30:53 AM
 #8326

Want your crypto represented in a line of physical proofs?

We have had inquiries from a few crypto development teams and/or supporters regarding having a line of proofs created for their crypto and are pleased to announce support of this concept going forward! The way this works is that prepayment for 30% of the inventory would be required and we will cover the remaining upfront investment of time and labor. Once the line is completed and assembled, your 30% of the inventory for which you prepaid will be shipped to you. Finite By Design, LLC will own, list and support the sale of the remaining 70% of the inventory to recoup our portion of the investment and profit.

Example (using made up "FiniteCoin"):

Members of the "FiniteCoin" community decide they want a physical representation of their crypto created and supported by Finite By Design, LLC. The "FiniteCoin" community decides on the quantity of proofs they desire (50) as well as the composition (1 troy ounce of .999 fine silver). Once this is determined, the payment for 30% of the inventory (15 proofs) or $1,500 is made and the production process begins. In about 8 weeks the new line of proofs is completed, the 15 proofs are mailed (to one centralized address for further redistribution) and Finite By Design, LLC lists, supports and advertises the remaining inventory of 35 proofs.

Variations are available depending on quantity of proofs and material of composition - please contact via email for discussion of alternative options.


lol wow what a way to hijack a thread. Epic.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
adaseb
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July 14, 2014, 04:31:07 AM
 #8327

Every 10 minutes there is a development here.

Can someone please sum up what happened today.??

FORTUNEJACK.COM[
                            
5 BTC WELCOME PACK FOR 1ST 5 DEPOSITS
FREE 1,000 mBTC daily for LuckyJack winners
[
          
]
Alphi
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July 14, 2014, 04:32:24 AM
 #8328


2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.



Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

you can only "destroy" the coins by hard coding and blocking the address that holds them..

given that vericoin has its own inbuilt mixing service. I am not sure that all the coins would be stored in the one location for long or are even traceable.

if the coins get mixed and split up into numerous addresses then there is virtually no hope of "destroying" them.
what you would have to do is shut down the entire network and then block each address that has the coins.. you cannot do this while the network is running because the thief can simply keep moving the coins to different addresses

for all intents and purposes the devs probably went with option 3 .. roll back (effectively voiding every transaction that has happened since the hack) because option 2 was simply not practical.

the way block chains work is that you cannot isolate and destroy an individual transaction because each block has a signature which would change if any of the data within the block is tampered with... therefore the only option is to hard fork which means to go back in time to particular block and every block (and every transaction) that happened after that point in time.

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DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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July 14, 2014, 04:32:38 AM
 #8329

Want your crypto represented in a line of physical proofs?

We have had inquiries from a few crypto development teams and/or supporters regarding having a line of proofs created for their crypto and are pleased to announce support of this concept going forward! The way this works is that prepayment for 30% of the inventory would be required and we will cover the remaining upfront investment of time and labor. Once the line is completed and assembled, your 30% of the inventory for which you prepaid will be shipped to you. Finite By Design, LLC will own, list and support the sale of the remaining 70% of the inventory to recoup our portion of the investment and profit.

Example (using made up "FiniteCoin"):

Members of the "FiniteCoin" community decide they want a physical representation of their crypto created and supported by Finite By Design, LLC. The "FiniteCoin" community decides on the quantity of proofs they desire (50) as well as the composition (1 troy ounce of .999 fine silver). Once this is determined, the payment for 30% of the inventory (15 proofs) or $1,500 is made and the production process begins. In about 8 weeks the new line of proofs is completed, the 15 proofs are mailed (to one centralized address for further redistribution) and Finite By Design, LLC lists, supports and advertises the remaining inventory of 35 proofs.

Variations are available depending on quantity of proofs and material of composition - please contact via email for discussion of alternative options.

http://i.imgur.com/EAnWw7c.jpg?1

lol wow what a way to hijack a thread. Epic.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Look at all those cool designs you can make.
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July 14, 2014, 04:32:52 AM
 #8330

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap


trust me... lol.. no one wants to buy.

I would. If this fork is successful and coins go back to their rightful owners.

You are just a bag holder trying to retain value in a coin that is obviously dead. The rightful owners of the coins are whoever used a security flaw to steal them, it's their reward.  


You sir are a FUD spewing idiot please do humanity a favor and remove yourself from the genepool and stop wasting our precious resources in the most expedient fashion, I'll even buy you the bullet to do it with.
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July 14, 2014, 04:33:30 AM
 #8331

LMAO. Vericoin devs are jokes. ROLLBACK? What is this.. Walmart. I cant believe you guys are really rolling back to protect mintpal.

Any VRC holders are surely going to lose money on this one.

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July 14, 2014, 04:33:37 AM
 #8332

guys this why need a decentralized exchange somthing like this http://bithalo.org/

No, its why exchanges need to be held to a higher standard, a& be registered, so they are by law bound to 3rd party auditing. This is why I trade sizable qty only on cryptsy.

Yup we are in the wild west stage. Some day I suspect this type of BS operation will cease to exist in any meaningful manner. Mostly the ones who use fiat conversion will need this type of stringent regulation on operation.

Interesting thing to look at in an international court of law. What laws of what countries hold up in this type of situation? Definitely curious how this would play out in the future once cryptos get more popular.

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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July 14, 2014, 04:34:07 AM
 #8333


2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.



Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

This option can only happen by mistake or be considered by a geek who simply doesn't like the sunlight.
If devs decided to follow this road they would be dead from a moral point of view.
It was either a crime or not.
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July 14, 2014, 04:34:50 AM
 #8334


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



It will just be a slow death as now trust has been broken...double standards introduced into the devs actions.

"We will do it this once but not anymore". lol

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           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
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     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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July 14, 2014, 04:35:10 AM
 #8335

wow the retards on here....

OK FIRST OFF:

How the hell has the integrity of VRC been lost? Because we didn't let some fucking hacker have his way with the coin and get away scott free and tens of thousands of dollars richer?! ya, FUCK THAT! I dunno bout you dumbass FUDsters that came here just to talk shit but I like criminal fucksticks NOT profiting off of me or anyone else.

Secondly:

THIS WAS NOT AN EXPLOIT OF VERICOIN OR THE DEVS CODE THIS WAS PURELY A MASSIVE FUCKING SECURITY FUCKUP ON MINTPALS END

There, hope I laid some of you stupid FUDsters to rest with that and if not IDGAF, shut the fuck up and move out cause I'm tired of your constant blatant lies and retarded, inane "opinions"

Criminal is just a label that society places on competition as a way of stifling it. Hackers create innovation. Hacking is a service. Hacker exposes security vulnerability, vulnerability gets fixed (innovation), hacker gets paid. Win/win.
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July 14, 2014, 04:35:46 AM
 #8336

LMAO. Vericoin devs are jokes. ROLLBACK? What is this.. Walmart. I cant believe you guys are really rolling back to protect mintpal.

Any VRC holders are surely going to lose money on this one.



LOL WALMART COIN
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July 14, 2014, 04:36:17 AM
 #8337


2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.



Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

you can only "destroy" the coins by hard coding and blocking the address that holds them..

given that vericoin has its own inbuilt mixing service. I am not sure that all the coins would be stored in the one location for long or are even traceable.

if the coins get mixed and split up into numerous addresses then there is virtually no hope of "destroying" them.
what you would have to do is shut down the entire network and then block each address that has the coins.. you cannot do this while the network is running because the thief can simply keep moving the coins to different addresses

for all intents and purposes the devs probably went with option 3 .. roll back (effectively destroying every transaction that has happened since the hack) because option 2 was simply not practical.



Thank you very much for responding to my mental exercise of option 2.
If it is truly impractical or impossible and it was between option 1 and 3, if I was dev I would probably go with 3 as well.
Option 1, although more honest and safe for the ideology of cryptos would be too risky for devs.
bakeo
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July 14, 2014, 04:36:28 AM
 #8338

Common sense with the right morals > Cold-hard principles/rules

So basically it's OK and "morally just" for a central agency to decide when the rules and principles of crypto can be broken.

I know of a lot of people who think crypto is stupid, but love the blockchain, I am one of them, All you nuts out there need to realize people dont care for your stupid algo's and never will, all they want to do is buy something easy and not get hacked and shit stolen from them.

Computers make them uneasy, and for good reason. Look at all you crypto champions, wishing theft upon people to save your thesis. Taking that over a real world use that has benefits to save your purist view, so sad.

I couldn't of put it better myself. People think Dev's should put all this effort into a coin, take tons of abuse from users who sit at their computers trying to make a buck, then just let their creation die do to no fault of their own out of some deranged principal. The biggest problems with crypto is the lack of decentralization, 98% of the public don't want to leave their money to the wild wild west where cheating and hacking is rewarded because a few people don't like the governments role in modern economies. The same people who think the Vericoin Dev's should hang themselves with Mintpal's rope are the same people who wonder why the general public thinks all this is just a complete scam.

If I started a bank and offered a Visa card, but said there is no fraud protection and you are on the hook for any charges made no matter what, no one would use it, because most people have what is called common sense. I explain the GOX situation to people and they can't wrap their head around how an electronic transaction just can't be reversed or why so much value could be flimsily held and lost so easily. It's all the convenience of sending money electronically over the internet with all the dangers of cash.

I commend the Dev's for the actions they are taking. I don't think this will ever be a slippery slope where any one little thing will cause coin makers to halt transactions and remake the wallet because some little thing slipped up. If these hackers had had half a brain, they would have stole .5% of the coins, taking as many as they did would either kill the coin leaving their bounty worthless, or caused what did happen, also leaving their heist worthless. I hope this is the new normal.
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July 14, 2014, 04:36:32 AM
 #8339


This is not even an option.

Blame Mintpal not Vericoin. Rollback is a must. If Vericoin doesn't rollback then it will be worth NOTHING. The coin will be DEAD.



It will just be a slow death as now trust has been broken...double standards introduced into the devs actions.

"We will do it this once but not anymore". lol

No trust broken here, more trust than ever. And I was not comprimised, so please, as an investor, don't speak for me. You just learned about vericoin a few hours ago, Don't act like a expert, your self promotion is insane. now your posting fliers? give it up

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bigc1984
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July 14, 2014, 04:37:28 AM
 #8340

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap


trust me... lol.. no one wants to buy.

I would. If this fork is successful and coins go back to their rightful owners.

You are just a bag holder trying to retain value in a coin that is obviously dead. The rightful owners of the coins are whoever used a security flaw to steal them, it's their reward.  


You sir are a FUD spewing idiot please do humanity a favor and remove yourself from the genepool and stop wasting our precious resources in the most expedient fashion, I'll even buy you the bullet to do it with.

"fud" is just a buzzword that people use as a way of discrediting others when no other means are available.
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