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Question: Where would you prefer the VRC/VRM exchange pair be?
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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1346463 times)
eiskalt
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July 14, 2014, 01:08:07 AM
 #8081

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.
51% attack is BS excuse to fork the coin to bailout Mintpal and all the idiots who trade the coin instead of staking and securing the network.
http://youtu.be/TjL2AgCQDJ0


That video on Peercoin explains why a 51% attack will not happen so it's a bullshit excuse.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is no longer crypto it's centralized fiat, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  Undecided

This guy gets it. This isn't wall street. Nobody is too big to fail. Oh wait...

Might as well just go back to dollars

No he doesn´t. This is not a bailout. Mintpal could still fail as a business.
It is the thieves, that get their bailout denied.
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leckey
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July 14, 2014, 01:09:52 AM
 #8082

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  Roll Eyes

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.


If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.

The exchanges would still exist. How can you not see this? Exchanges live off the fees gathered through trading, not from people leaving their coins in exchange wallets. It's REALLY fucking simple:
1) Go to exchange
2) Deposit to exchange
3) Make a trade = exchange gets fees
4) Withdraw from exchange

Everybody wins.

You'll notice I did say that MintPal was ultimately to blame. But the users who kept their funds there should not be absolved from blame. This has happened time and time again. How have they not learned by now?


Tried that. Didn't work. Mintpal stopped trading and froze withdraws almost immediately after my last VRC purchase. I couldn't withdraw in time.

Well I'm sorry you lost, but it's an infinitely better proposition than storing your coins on an exchange for an extended period of time.
CryptoSteam
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July 14, 2014, 01:10:55 AM
 #8083


No he doesn´t. This is not a bailout. Mintpal could still fail as a business.
It is the thieves, that get their bailout denied.

I won't trust Mintpal after this. Their rep is shot. Goodbye Mintpal from me and many others.
phzi
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July 14, 2014, 01:11:01 AM
 #8084

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is forever tainted, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  Undecided
Re-posted for truth.
centralized is someone with 8m vrc (1/3 of the supply)
Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.

Someone owning a large portion of something is a majority share at best, it doesn't centralize control of the blockchain in any way.

Reverting the blockchain for an exchange IS centralization - centralization at the hands of the devs and an exchange.

The vericoin team has my support as one of the 70% not effected to remedy the situation to get everyones coins back. Even if it means short term loss of a few bucks. Nobody with VRC on the mintpal who had it stolen would be in good shape, the thief would get away with money.
MintPal should be reimbursing everyone for the lost funds - probably in BTC value.  Anything else is just evidence that the VRC blockchain cannot ever be trusted.

I won't trust Mintpal after this. Their rep is shot. Goodbye Mintpal from me and many others.
MintPal AND VRC are both very obviously not worth trusting anymore.
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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.


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July 14, 2014, 01:13:47 AM
 #8085

wow what a show.. only have about 1k vrc and if i lost that it would be worth the price of admission to this circus! Grin

I can see both sides of the pro/con forking argument.  All choices available are rotten but I think the reason I find it okay to fork is these coins are in their infancy.  Why kill it? who benefits? so you think it shouldn't happen you can sell all your vrc and buy a coin the dev promises to let die if an exchange gets hacked during its petri dish stage.  I lost some at gox and I am impressed so far with the response in that they are trying to find the best solutoin (assuming no behind the scenes shenanigans -- and I really don't think mintpal would risk their reputation).

The idea that any crypto is 100% decentralized is mostly smoke and mirrors for legal purposes imo, so the biggest threat I see to vericoins future is legal if it acts too centralized rather than abandonment by users for philosophical reasons.  If I was learning of vrc for the first time from this I would get a bad impression of mintpal but would gain confidence in vrc (even though all these coins are part scam).

 

eiskalt
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July 14, 2014, 01:19:05 AM
 #8086


Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.


Another brilliant definition of centralization. Seems your definition applies to every cryptocoin protocol.

Maybe the buzzword feeders should discuss their various definitions of centralization first.
phzi
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July 14, 2014, 01:21:44 AM
 #8087


Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.

Another brilliant definition of centralization. Seems your definition applies to every cryptocoin protocol.
Show one other example of this in another cryptocoin protocol that's worth its salt (and if you ignore my previous posts about how bitcoin has NEVER done this, then you're even more ignorant then you appear).
bitsterr
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July 14, 2014, 01:25:25 AM
 #8088

Dear vericoin community, we are being FUDed and its up to you how we handle this. Some of these people are here to enjoy others misery. Some are here to promote their coin. Its easy for them to point the finger when they think they know whats right and wrong and are hardly affected by the outcome. I dont like the idea of a fork or making it seem like Mintpal doesnt take any damage in this. So the devs choose one of two very shitty decisions, to hard fork the coin. This is bad, and now we have a choice. We can dump this coin back to nothing which is what would happen if we let the thieves keep the coins, Also what a lot of people want. Or we can show the crypto community that we still support the devs in this decision and hold tight. We can show them that we do not bend to FUD and what other alt communities think is "right" or "wrong". The world is not black and white like they make it sound with " I would never hard fork ever!" Most alts would die against such a problem as this. SO what will it be? Will you hold? Or do you want to be like most alts?
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July 14, 2014, 01:27:53 AM
 #8089

Dear vericoin community, we are being FUDed and its up to you how we handle this. Some of these people are here to enjoy others misery. Some are here to promote their coin. Its easy for them to point the finger when they think they know whats right and wrong and are hardly affected by the outcome. I dont like the idea of a fork or making it seem like Mintpal doesnt take any damage in this. So the devs choose one of two very shitty decisions, to hard fork the coin. This is bad, and now we have a choice. We can dump this coin back to nothing which is what would happen if we let the thieves keep the coins, Also what a lot of people want. Or we can show the crypto community that we still support the devs in this decision and hold tight. We can show them that we do not bend to FUD and what other alt communities think is "right" or "wrong". The world is not black and white like they make it sound with " I would never hard fork ever!" Most alts would die against such a problem as this. SO what will it be? Will you hold? Or do you want to be like most alts?

dump this coin back to nothing
... that's probably what will happen.
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July 14, 2014, 01:29:38 AM
 #8090

MINTPAL IS DEAD
NEW KING IS BITTREX



as soon vericoin is enabled go trade on https://bittrex.com/
eiskalt
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July 14, 2014, 01:29:51 AM
 #8091


Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.

Another brilliant definition of centralization. Seems your definition applies to every cryptocoin protocol.
Show one other example of this in another cryptocoin protocol that's worth its salt (and if you ignore my previous posts about how bitcoin has NEVER done this, then you're even more ignorant then you appear).


Read again his definition, then you will see (maybe).
BTC has never done this, because the thief was a board member of the foundation. Maybe you should read my previous posts, how all these BTC-hacks lead to a shrinking $-volume, because people are scared and tired of the fraudsters winning.
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July 14, 2014, 01:30:43 AM
 #8092


Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.

Another brilliant definition of centralization. Seems your definition applies to every cryptocoin protocol.
Show one other example of this in another cryptocoin protocol that's worth its salt (and if you ignore my previous posts about how bitcoin has NEVER done this, then you're even more ignorant then you appear).


Everything you say is false, misleading or you just keep ignoring the situation.  I can't keep up, but you are not alone.

I stopped responding to people because it is the same thing over and over.  You explain to them what 8 mil coins staking at once would do and they ignore, or they make up their own bitcoin history like you just did Smiley

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July 14, 2014, 01:31:02 AM
 #8093

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  Roll Eyes

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.


If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.

The exchanges would still exist. How can you not see this? Exchanges live off the fees gathered through trading, not from people leaving their coins in exchange wallets. It's REALLY fucking simple:
1) Go to exchange
2) Deposit to exchange
3) Make a trade = exchange gets fees
4) Withdraw from exchange

Everybody wins.

You'll notice I did say that MintPal was ultimately to blame. But the users who kept their funds there should not be absolved from blame. This has happened time and time again. How have they not learned by now?


Tried that. Didn't work. Mintpal stopped trading and froze withdraws almost immediately after my last VRC purchase. I couldn't withdraw in time.

Well I'm sorry you lost, but it's an infinitely better proposition than storing your coins on an exchange for an extended period of time.

I never store them there. I just had incredibly bad timing today.

phzi
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July 14, 2014, 01:31:42 AM
 #8094

Everything you say is false, misleading or you just keep ignoring the situation.  I can't keep up, but you are not alone.

I stopped responding to people because it is the same thing over and over.  You explain to them what 8 mil coins staking at once would do and they ignore, or they make up their own bitcoin history like you just did Smiley

You take the time to respond, but doesn't make a single worthwhile comment...  Obviously you just have nothing to say of value.

Nothing I have said is false or misleading (and nobody has proven otherwise - nobody has even made an intelligent counter point to anything I've said).  I've made up no history - bitcoin and litecoin have NEVER rolled-back the chain for an external reason like an exchange.

If the blockchain network can't survive this, then the coin doesn't deserve to survive.  A rollback like this is so counter to the very ideas of distributed trust, that it's almost offensive.
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July 14, 2014, 01:43:55 AM
 #8095

The question is not whether bitcoin or other crypto have rolled back blockchain because of external events. The question is whether devs CAN do it. If they can, then they eventually will. This is what this mintpal/vericoin attack is proving to the entire crypto community.
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July 14, 2014, 01:44:31 AM
 #8096

Can't you see the opportunity ? THIS ATTACK WILL BRING VRC TO THE MEDIA ATTENTION = ITS UNIQUE = ALL NEWSPAPERS , CRYPTO-MAGAZINES , TELEVISION , FORUMS , BLOGS , RADIOS ,  EVERYBODY IN THE CRYPTO-WORLD  WILL TALK ABOUT VERICOIN . IT WILL BE THE NEXT BTC Smiley
nope some people only want to focus on 1 pixel of the whole image sad but true


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eiskalt
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July 14, 2014, 01:46:18 AM
 #8097

Everything you say is false, misleading or you just keep ignoring the situation.  I can't keep up, but you are not alone.

I stopped responding to people because it is the same thing over and over.  You explain to them what 8 mil coins staking at once would do and they ignore, or they make up their own bitcoin history like you just did Smiley

You take the time to respond, but doesn't make a single worthwhile comment...  Obviously you just have nothing to say of value.

Nothing I have said is false or misleading (and nobody has proven otherwise - nobody has even made an intelligent counter point to anything I've said).  I've made up no history - bitcoin and litecoin have NEVER rolled-back the chain for an external reason like an exchange.

If the blockchain network can't survive this, then the coin doesn't deserve to survive.  A rollback like this is so counter to the very ideas of distributed trust, that it's almost offensive.


In your logic there should be no hardfork ever, because it is always a bailout.

If bitcoin hardforks for whatever reason, they do it to protect their coin. It is a centralized decision and they are bailing out themselves. If they would not hardfork, the coin would die. You are advocating this, so please demand it from the BTC-DEVs and the foundation.
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July 14, 2014, 01:48:32 AM
 #8098

In your logic there should be no hardfork ever, because it is always a bailout.

If bitcoin hardforks for whatever reason, they do it to protect their coin. It is a centralized decision and they are bailing out themselves. If they would not hardfork, the coin would die. You are advocating this, so please demand it from the BTC-DEVs and the foundation.
You have a horrid sense of logic or understanding of crypto if that was your conclusion.  Hardforks are perfectly valid, specifically when a coin is developing - for security reason, or feature development.  But they should be very very carefully considered.

The key is that this VRC move isn't a hardfork, it is a blockchain rollback for external purposes that are totally unrelated to coin development.
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July 14, 2014, 01:49:02 AM
 #8099

Here's how this all goes folks:

1. Vericoin devs successfully thwart an attack of a magnitude which would have killed any other coin, including Bitcoin itself.
2. Investors notice Vericoin as a coin backed by diligent, vigilant developers capable of averting disaster.
3. Investors move into Vericoin because it now becomes obvious it's insanely undervalued.
4. Everyone who sold it off in the FUDstorm cries themselves to sleep for the next decade for throwing away their winning lottery ticket.

Just watch.
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July 14, 2014, 01:52:51 AM
 #8100

Let me preface this by saying I have no Vericoins at all, I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in on the situation.

Would it be possible to destroy only the stolen coins with a fork and act like they were never there preserving the other transactions that have since occurred? I understand that sucks for anyone who technically owned the coins on the exchange, but that is a risk they should have known they were taking. Perhaps Mintpal could possibly step up and reimburse the affected parties somehow. I'm not sure how much it costs to run their exchange, but bringing in ~$20000 a day in trading fees should get people part of the way there. Thoughts?
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