[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[scrypto]

this hard fork wouldn't be happening without coordination/centralisation.  

are we really ready yet for fully decentralised digital currency?

[bitc0000]

It's a lose the most - lose the lesser scenario, if the devs won't rollback the coins stolen then the thief will have 1/3 of the coin supply and be essentially god of vericoins which will make people lose trust to the coin being controlled by a thief and eventually kill the coin. They did rollback and probably some small transactions are affected but won't kill the coin that quick, it is up to these guys to do the right thing and follow the original transaction. Though this is mintpal's fault to be honest.

[Fippy]

I personally am very excited by this. I know this may be a scary time for the people who currently have VRC missing, but think of the precedent this is setting!

Never in the history of money has there been the ability to just "Rollback" to a point prior to a theft. This is like if bank robbers got away with 2 million dollars, and the next day the money was back in their vault, while the robbers are now magically holding worthless monopoly money.

This really has the potential to change the way that the world sees crypto - it is a tangible benefit that fiat money will never be able to provide. If it goes off smoothly I have no doubt we'll see this in Forbes at the minimum, since they already are fairly crypto-friendly.

you need to think a bit more:

not only the "robber" is punished, but everyone else who bought coins for BTC/FIAT between the hack/whatever and the time of the rollback, and everybody who sold will still have their coins +  BTC/FIAT.
If you call that a good situation you should not be allowed to handle money at all.

This is without a question a terrible solution, and should not be done.

There are no good solutions. The devs had to choose the lesser of two evils.

No they picked the worse of two evils, they just proved this coin is completely centralized crypto and it will screw over countless innocent people.

After extensive review of your posts, I have come to the conclusion that you quite literally do not know the meaning of 'centralized'. Please stop posting, as the effort you are expending to type is wasting my perfectly good oxygen.

[GridWorker]

 are we really ready yet for fully decentralised digital currency?

The average criminal and hacker is.

[pb2014]

Why are people blaming Vericoin for this? This is 100% Mintpals fault. What really pisses me off is the Vericoin Devs have to fork to save the coin because clearly Mintpal will not cover the losses. FUCK MINTPAL.

[Killiz]

The hacker must not of wanted my coins ON mintpal cuz there still there, i feel left out

Leave em there till the dust settles, and a fork is created. any coin movement from after the attack untíl the client update will be erased.

I got some coins in limbo sent to mintpal got comfirmations but never appeared what should i do ?

Do nothing! We know nothing of when the attack exactly took place. Any transaction after the attack may be on the chain which the coins were stolen on, which will then be invalid. Do nothing, and assess the situation after the development team responds to the situation.

This is most unfortunate, but if everyone stays calm, and does not transact any coins the less effect it will have on the network and community and the easier things will be put right.

[SW84]

I think we need to wait for a technical explanation of what went wrong before we can draw any conclusions. VRC is still very new and enough coins were stolen to greatly affect the community, so the developer was stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.

The problem is that VRC will now always be associated with this hard fork. The developers need to be clear going forward on what their response will be in the event of future hacks on Mintpal.

The roadmap of this coin still looks great compared to other alts and I think this will be remembered as a minor setback. I am hoping the coin gets dumped so I can purchase more.

[sdmathis]

So looks like BTC and LTC was also attempted on the mp security flaw.  Anyone confirm  that yet?

Pat confirmed it a little while ago.

Confirmation must come from those who manage these funds (announcement on Mintpal website, or announcement from someone of their staff). Did I miss any piece of news from them?

You don't think that the devs are in contact with Mintpal? Pat's word is good enough.

Dev's are obviously in contact with exchanges: otherwise this situation wouldn't have been handled so nicely and so quickly. The thing here is Mintpal only talked about VRC being hacked, and they mentioned that the target was only VRC. A Dev saying that not only VRC was the target is a pretty big deal, and things get really serious when these targets are BTC and LTC. More news clarifying this situation are needed ASAP.

Mintpal is saying very little publicly.

[Killiz]

Why are people blaming Vericoin for this? This is 100% Mintpals fault. What really pisses me off is the Vericoin Devs have to fork to save the coin because clearly Mintpal will not cover the losses. FUCK MINTPAL.

What are Mintpal going to do? Buy back every one of the 8M coins off the attackers and give them back to everyone. as long as there were no big movements by mintpal involving these 8M coins then they should be back in the majority of peoples accounts after the update.

[barabbas]

People should take note of this. Not because of the hack, but because of the immediate step-up of the developers to defend the integrity of the coin.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe the bar has effectively been raised.

+10

But thing about it widely:

1) Conclusion is that VRC is valuable to 8m /27 *100%  = 30% attacks...not 51%

2) Big hit into decentralization image of VRC "rolbacks" - shows that crypto is not decentralized coin...
So fork BTC before MtGox that way...

51% of staking coins is all that is necessary to attack. Not 51% of all coins.

And here is, in my opinion, where the problem lays: A few days back we learned that there's a wallet, NOT an exchange wallet -which in itself is not safeguard either-, that has in excess of 4.5 million Vericoins. That is, obviously -or at least in my estimation-, more than 51% of all staking VCR. Therefore, the attack happened. And was successful because if you have 51% the success is guaranteed. Mind you, the attack could have happened with much less VRC, even 35-38% and it would still have a great probability of success although not guaranteed.

Also, I don't believe a hard fork -that I consider the best current option, by the way-, presents a real solution for, indeed, the attacks can -and WILL- continue. The problem is, precisely, the one aforementioned: Someone (or a group, such as The Black Hand, who we know now operates fully in VRC), owning an amount of coins that adds up to 51% or more of all staking coins. This is serious stuff to think since we also know that The Black Hand has the money resources to have hoarded those 4.5 million coins and, in fact, take effective control of VRC away from the devs for they can do anything they want no matter what the devs choose to do.

I am not implying the Black Hand has perpetrated this attack -although that would be my guess-, I am stating the fact that apart from this attack, the situation is unsustainable with someone controlling 1/4+ of all coins. I don't know either how to prevent such situation for even if measures are taken to limit ownership, there's no way to prevent the same exact thing happening... only spreading the ownership through several wallets. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going on.

Or, for that matter, why someone is willing to "generously" write "five figures checks..."

[XbladeX]

No they picked the worse of two evils, they just proved this coin is completely centralized crypto and it will screw over countless innocent people.

How do you figure that a theft of VRC from an exchange is evidence of VRC being centralised? It was stolen from an exchange, not from a VRC services.

VRC is still a decentralised currency. If this had occurred from a service provided by VRC then you'd have a point but it is nothing to do with VRC and everything to do with, again, trading-exchange weaknesses.

Because one guy can rollback coin... this is evidence
try do the same with BTC... eg. MtGox... BTC-e hacks and much more
people lost 500m+ $ and no fork this is decentralization.

[virtualfaqs]

So are the coins stolen being rolled back or every transaction up to the hard fork being rolled back?

[DARKANGEL6415]

LOLOLOL All you dumb FUDsters and Panic Sellers are gonna feed me TONS of cheap VRC as soon as the exchanges unfreeze, I think I may retire with the amount of VRC I'll be able to snatch up, oh and THINK for a min if the hackers targeted VRC there was a REASON, either 1) They know VRC is solid and is going places, 2) They are associated with some other bullshit coin and terrified of VRC and trying to crash it (but the wont) or 3) All of the above.  All I can say to the hackers is haha you stupid bastard nice try better luck next time. and to everyone else TRY NOT TO DUMP HODL AND PRICE WILL REMAIN STABLE DUR DUR DUR I FOR ONE WILL BE BUYING THE HELL OUTTA VRC ONCE ABLE TO!!!!!

despite of how it was worded lol totally agree with you

[cryptodevil]

Because one guy can rollback coin... this is evidence

You need to learn a little more of the concept of what a hard fork is. If 'one guy' attempted a hard fork and the rest of the coin's community did not accept it, do you know what happens? Nothing. No fork takes place.

We have been told why a fork needs to occur, but it requires the majority to accept it. So, no, it is not 'one guy' performing a hard fork, it is the community.

Decentralised.

Check-and-mate, ignoramus.

[solid12345]

Here is the cold truth, you want to know why people keep their coins on exchanges instead of staking them?

Because they are paralyzed with fear that people like Iconic Expert or Bryce Weiner will dump any moment when the time is right and they want to be able to exit quickly to not lose their shirts.

So Bryce can go stuff it with his talks of blockchain security, he helps to create the most insecure and paranoid market in the world.

[J9901]

Wait a minute...let me get this straight. (Please dont answer if you're not sure yourself)

Are you telling me that those who sold after the start of the attack (the past few hrs) will get to keep both their BTC (earned from selling) and VRC amount (prior to selling) Please verify

[chunkyjunkie]

Simple mp f'd up.  The hot wallet had too many vrc in it.

Claiming the devs should not help the community by bailing out mp is a very questionable statement.

Almost as if you were one of the people on the receiving end of a successful attack?  hmm...


VRC will come out of this a lot stronger and in the spotlight imo.  Complete backfire by the hackers. Pretty funny.

[Killiz]

So are the coins stolen being rolled back or every transaction up to the hard fork being rolled back?

Everything as/and after the coins were stolen, this is why all wallets on effected exchanges have been suspended until the updated client is released.

[noerc]

btw, the rollback doesn't even affect the hackers. They probably already dumped the VRCs after they read about whats going to happen in order to switch the blockchain. The people who are affected by this rollback are the holders in the community and only the holders in the community. And the only one who benefits from the rollback is MintPal.

Patrick, I urge you to not do that. Please don't let an exchange decide about things like this. And I am not only saying this because I am losing money I have in VRC.

[Killiz]

Wait a minute...let me get this straight. (Please dont answer if you're not sure yourself)

Are you telling me that those who sold after the start of the attack (the past few hrs) will get to keep both their BTC (earned from selling) and VRC amount (prior to selling) Please verify

Not really, the exchange may perform trades within its own software. It is only when coins are sent to/and from the exchange that they are broadcast to the network.