Scientific proof that God exists?

[Vod]

Except that the odds against what you are saying, are so astronomically great, that not only can they not be comprehended, but they probably won't be able to be comprehended by full-blown a quantum computer.

Actually, that defines your fairy tale, brainwashed buddy. 

All you are saying is that you don't have a clue how things came into existence.

Actually, that is what you are saying, brainwashed buddy. 

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[JordanJada]

just becuase I AM, does not mean you are NOT.

[bitroxis]

A look into the karmic perspective on existence would be enlightening, guys It does not operates with concepts like "good" and "bad", rather with "necessary" and "unnecessary". And, by the way, doesn't have the idea of "God".

[Przemax]

How many copies of Phoenix Journals? Copy and paste all day makes many copies.

No printing press. No computers. One copy Phoenix Journals.

25,000 ancient hand-written copies of Old Testament. 5,000 plus of New Testament.

Strength in Bible. No strength in Phoenix Journals.

PJs are written in English with clarity and known authorship. The Bible has been adulterated, even Przemax agreed to that. There is an advantage to reading both.
That is not strength, it is mere popularity. The Bible is not strong enough to teach the masses because the world is still in chaos. Stop accepting lies just because they are popular!

I have just agreed that translation is not 100% correct. There are cultural context. So the ideal sittuation would be to learn the ancient greek and Hebrew, to know its culture, its context, surrounding history, comperative example etc etc etc. It is mathematicly possible to toss some words in the Bible. One would need to be stubborn to do that year by year by year. It is in my opinion impossible to forge whole stories of the Bible without first destroying it. It was not destroyed although the holy scriptures were burned like no tomorrow along with their owners like there was no tomorrow.

It is mathematicly completly improbable to not achieve a destruction of text by the Vatican and the enemies of Israel, and to achieve its forgery of the living, remembered and worpshipped texts.

What is easier and what was the case was to invent new books to cover the old ones. For example Talmud to hide Torah and Catholic catehism to hide the gospels and the book of prophets. Modern example of such a behaviour is Pheonix Journal. It was not the first and not the last attempt of such sort.

You make a reality a miracle just like astargath is.

It is you guys who are against the odds. You would need a miracle to explain yourselves.

There is an advantage to reading both.

P.S I tried to read 2nd one, that was devoted to explain the Messiah. Sorry it makes no sense to me. You really need to try harder to explain why do you think God is not omnipotent and such. It is deeply disturbing. What else is disturbing is that you say that Bible is bad and you like make your all statements based on the Bible and you do not explain why do think otherwise. That is like...... worse than Catechism. I could understand that people followed catechism, they were illiterate bafoons. You seem to not be illiterate bafoon. I could understand the ones that believed in Talmud. There are so many of those Talmud books, that you would need a lifetime to read them all, and only then you could claim what you found or not, because there was some premise it might be in another book. Pheonix Journal is not a lifetime journey. So why believe such a things?

[Astargath]

How can a perfect god create an imperfect universe?

This universe is perfect! It is humanity's definition of perfection that falls short. It is based upon the flawed vision of human ego.

Yeah... No. It really isn't. Earth is not perfect, humans are not perfect, animals are not perfect.

Sure if you look at the small scale of a human lifetime or even a human sized object you could find faults and say things are less than perfect. However when you look at the universe as a whole and the beauty of how it works it is simply amazing! You can't say the Universe is imperfect in any meaningful sense.
Scientists have nailed down certain forces and balances that had they been even a tiny, tiny bit different we might have just had loose particles of matter and no stars or just a giant clump with no empty space. We got just the right Universe to support life on our world and maybe others too. There are so many ways that might not have happened if our Universe had not been exactly as it is. Yes our Universe is quite perfect at being a Universe that we can exist in. It is exactly what it needs to be and that is all we can ask for.
If someone knows of a more perfect Universe out there for comparison than I would love to know.

Let's assume, for the moment, that the Universe really is perfectly set up for life, and human life at that.

Does that imply the Universe was created that way on purpose?

No. It absolutely does not.

Here's an analogy. I just rolled a die 10 times and got the sequence 3241154645. The odds against that particular sequence coming up are astronomical. Over 60 million to one.

Does that mean that this sequence was designed to come up?

Or think of it this way. The odds against me, personally being born? They're beyond astronomical. The chances that, of my mom's hundreds of eggs and my dad's hundreds of millions of sperm, this particular sperm and egg happened to combine to make me? Ridiculously unlikely. Especially when you factor in the odds against my parents being born...and against their parents being born...and their parents, and theirs, and so on and so on and so on. The chances against me, personally, having been born are so vast, it's almost unimaginable.

But does that mean I was destined to be born?

Does that mean we need to concoct an entire philosophy and theology to explain The Improbability of Greta-ness?

Or does it simply mean that I won the cosmic lottery? Does it simply mean that my existence is one of many wildly improbable outcomes of the universe... and if it hadn't happened, something else would have? Does it simply mean that some other kid would have been born to my parents instead... a kid whose existence would have been every bit as unlikely as mine?

Yes, life on Earth is wildly improbable. And if it hadn't happened, some other weird chemical stew would have arisen on Earth, one that didn't turn into life. Or life would have developed, but it would have evolved into some form other than humanity. Or the Earth would never have formed around the Sun, but some other unlikely planet would have formed around some other star. If life on Earth hadn't happened, something else equally improbable would have happened instead. We just wouldn't be here to wonder about it.

And that doesn't even take into account the mind-boggling vastness of space -- the mind-boggling majority of which is not hospitable to life in the slightest. The overwhelming majority of the universe consists of unimaginably huge vastness of impossibly cold empty space...punctuated at rare intervals by comets, asteroids, meteors (some of which might hit us, by the way, also negating the "perfectly designed for human life" concept), cold rocks, blazing hot furnaces of incandescent gas, the occasional black hole, and what have you. The overwhelming majority of the universe is, to put it mildly, not fine-tuned for life.

 Why was the 93- billion-light-years-across universe created 13.73 billion years ago...just so the fragile process of human life in one tiny solar system could blink into existence for a few hundred thousand years, a billion years at the absolute most, and then blink out again? Why could an asteroid or a solar flare or any number of other astronomical incidents wipe out that life at any time?

If the universe was "fine-tuned" for life to come into being, why is the ridiculously overwhelming majority of it created to be so inhospitable to life? (Even if there's life on other planets, which is hypothetically possible, the point still remains: Why is the portion of the Universe that's hospitable to life so absurdly minuscule?)

Except that the odds against what you are saying, are so astronomically great, that not only can they not be comprehended, but they probably won't be able to be comprehended by full-blown a quantum computer.

Did you understand anything of what I said? Any possibility would be equally unlikely as life existing.

[Ponylon]

there is no scientific proof. There were no camera/recorders back then so nothing can be captured. Everything was written down and the remains of the body of Jesus have never been found, cause they have been moved by his apostles to an unknown location

[WillowTrina]

God wrote the universe in the language of mathematics

[BADecker]

How can a perfect god create an imperfect universe?

This universe is perfect! It is humanity's definition of perfection that falls short. It is based upon the flawed vision of human ego.

Yeah... No. It really isn't. Earth is not perfect, humans are not perfect, animals are not perfect.

Sure if you look at the small scale of a human lifetime or even a human sized object you could find faults and say things are less than perfect. However when you look at the universe as a whole and the beauty of how it works it is simply amazing! You can't say the Universe is imperfect in any meaningful sense.
Scientists have nailed down certain forces and balances that had they been even a tiny, tiny bit different we might have just had loose particles of matter and no stars or just a giant clump with no empty space. We got just the right Universe to support life on our world and maybe others too. There are so many ways that might not have happened if our Universe had not been exactly as it is. Yes our Universe is quite perfect at being a Universe that we can exist in. It is exactly what it needs to be and that is all we can ask for.
If someone knows of a more perfect Universe out there for comparison than I would love to know.

Let's assume, for the moment, that the Universe really is perfectly set up for life, and human life at that.

Does that imply the Universe was created that way on purpose?

No. It absolutely does not.

Here's an analogy. I just rolled a die 10 times and got the sequence 3241154645. The odds against that particular sequence coming up are astronomical. Over 60 million to one.

Does that mean that this sequence was designed to come up?

Or think of it this way. The odds against me, personally being born? They're beyond astronomical. The chances that, of my mom's hundreds of eggs and my dad's hundreds of millions of sperm, this particular sperm and egg happened to combine to make me? Ridiculously unlikely. Especially when you factor in the odds against my parents being born...and against their parents being born...and their parents, and theirs, and so on and so on and so on. The chances against me, personally, having been born are so vast, it's almost unimaginable.

But does that mean I was destined to be born?

Does that mean we need to concoct an entire philosophy and theology to explain The Improbability of Greta-ness?

Or does it simply mean that I won the cosmic lottery? Does it simply mean that my existence is one of many wildly improbable outcomes of the universe... and if it hadn't happened, something else would have? Does it simply mean that some other kid would have been born to my parents instead... a kid whose existence would have been every bit as unlikely as mine?

Yes, life on Earth is wildly improbable. And if it hadn't happened, some other weird chemical stew would have arisen on Earth, one that didn't turn into life. Or life would have developed, but it would have evolved into some form other than humanity. Or the Earth would never have formed around the Sun, but some other unlikely planet would have formed around some other star. If life on Earth hadn't happened, something else equally improbable would have happened instead. We just wouldn't be here to wonder about it.

And that doesn't even take into account the mind-boggling vastness of space -- the mind-boggling majority of which is not hospitable to life in the slightest. The overwhelming majority of the universe consists of unimaginably huge vastness of impossibly cold empty space...punctuated at rare intervals by comets, asteroids, meteors (some of which might hit us, by the way, also negating the "perfectly designed for human life" concept), cold rocks, blazing hot furnaces of incandescent gas, the occasional black hole, and what have you. The overwhelming majority of the universe is, to put it mildly, not fine-tuned for life.

 Why was the 93- billion-light-years-across universe created 13.73 billion years ago...just so the fragile process of human life in one tiny solar system could blink into existence for a few hundred thousand years, a billion years at the absolute most, and then blink out again? Why could an asteroid or a solar flare or any number of other astronomical incidents wipe out that life at any time?

If the universe was "fine-tuned" for life to come into being, why is the ridiculously overwhelming majority of it created to be so inhospitable to life? (Even if there's life on other planets, which is hypothetically possible, the point still remains: Why is the portion of the Universe that's hospitable to life so absurdly minuscule?)

Except that the odds against what you are saying, are so astronomically great, that not only can they not be comprehended, but they probably won't be able to be comprehended by full-blown a quantum computer.

Did you understand anything of what I said? Any possibility would be equally unlikely as life existing.

No, no, no... You miss the point.

Notice that you said "possibility." That we have found, there is nothing that is a possibility for life except God. And since God has been scientifically proven to exist, He become not only a possibility, but the great probability.

[BADecker]

God wrote the universe in the language of mathematics

Mathematics is a language of mankind that attempts ot bring the language of God and the universe into mankind understanding... a little bit.

[BADecker]

there is no scientific proof. There were no camera/recorders back then so nothing can be captured. Everything was written down and the remains of the body of Jesus have never been found, cause they have been moved by his apostles to an unknown location

Deductive reasoning.

From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg21421980#msg21421980: In the Star Trek 2009 movie, Spock repeated a long-cherished, scientific truth at about 1 hour 9 minutes into the movie, "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Proof for God:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

[Vod]

I guess when you make up your own little definition of "scientific proof", you can claim whatever you want.

[Vod]

Every bit of proof you have provided also proves the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

How can you prove your fairy tale and not mine at the same time?

[BADecker]

Every bit of proof you have provided also proves the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

How can you prove your fairy tale and not mine at the same time?

Hey, if you can scientifically prove that it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster that made the earth, then your god and mine are the same.

[Astargath]

Every bit of proof you have provided also proves the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

How can you prove your fairy tale and not mine at the same time?

Hey, if you can scientifically prove that it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster that made the earth, then your god and mine are the same.

See that's what I don't understand because you always claim that yet you believe in a specific god which is the god from the Bible. That god cannot be the flying spaghetti monster.

[BADecker]

Every bit of proof you have provided also proves the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

How can you prove your fairy tale and not mine at the same time?

Hey, if you can scientifically prove that it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster that made the earth, then your god and mine are the same.

See that's what I don't understand because you always claim that yet you believe in a specific god which is the god from the Bible. That god cannot be the flying spaghetti monster.

The thing you keep missing are the two little words "scientific proof." If you want to start a religion topic, go ahead. Scientific proof for God doesn't have anything to do with non-scientific religion. It doesn't explain nearly as much as the various "god" religions. Why not? Because there is a lot of science to scientifically find out regarding God. Science barely has a handle on it.

All this means is that science proves God exists. It doesn't prove much about God. It might not prove enough to tell if the Bible is most accurate, or if Flying Spaghetti Monster info is most accurate. The real question is, can God be real against scientific proof?

[Astargath]

Every bit of proof you have provided also proves the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

How can you prove your fairy tale and not mine at the same time?

Hey, if you can scientifically prove that it was the Flying Spaghetti Monster that made the earth, then your god and mine are the same.

See that's what I don't understand because you always claim that yet you believe in a specific god which is the god from the Bible. That god cannot be the flying spaghetti monster.

The thing you keep missing are the two little words "scientific proof." If you want to start a religion topic, go ahead. Scientific proof for God doesn't have anything to do with non-scientific religion. It doesn't explain nearly as much as the various "god" religions. Why not? Because there is a lot of science to scientifically find out regarding God. Science barely has a handle on it.

All this means is that science proves God exists. It doesn't prove much about God. It might not prove enough to tell if the Bible is most accurate, or if Flying Spaghetti Monster info is most accurate. The real question is, can God be real against scientific proof?

Certainly a god could exist and could have been the creator of the universe however there is no proof that he did.

[sirazimuth]

P.S I tried to read 2nd one, that was devoted to explain the Messiah. Sorry it makes no sense to me. You really need to try harder to explain why do you think God is not omnipotent and such. It is deeply disturbing. What else is disturbing is that you say that Bible is bad and you like make your all statements based on the Bible and you do not explain why do think otherwise. That is like...... worse than Catechism. I could understand that people followed catechism, they were illiterate bafoons. You seem to not be illiterate bafoon. I could understand the ones that believed in Talmud. There are so many of those Talmud books, that you would need a lifetime to read them all, and only then you could claim what you found or not, because there was some premise it might be in another book. Pheonix Journal is not a lifetime journey. So why believe such a things?

oh i don't know, maybe same reason as someone like you could
believe in a non-existent invisible omnipotent sky daddy and bible bullshit fairy tales written by goat herders 2000 years ago?

...btw  Mr Genius...  "buffoon"  is spelled with 2 f's  ...  just sayin...

[Przemax]

P.S I tried to read 2nd one, that was devoted to explain the Messiah. Sorry it makes no sense to me. You really need to try harder to explain why do you think God is not omnipotent and such. It is deeply disturbing. What else is disturbing is that you say that Bible is bad and you like make your all statements based on the Bible and you do not explain why do think otherwise. That is like...... worse than Catechism. I could understand that people followed catechism, they were illiterate bafoons. You seem to not be illiterate bafoon. I could understand the ones that believed in Talmud. There are so many of those Talmud books, that you would need a lifetime to read them all, and only then you could claim what you found or not, because there was some premise it might be in another book. Pheonix Journal is not a lifetime journey. So why believe such a things?

oh i don't know, maybe same reason as someone like you could
believe in a non-existent invisible omnipotent sky daddy and bible bullshit fairy tales written by goat herders 2000 years ago?

...btw  Mr Genius...  "buffoon"  is spelled with 2 f's  ...  just sayin...

Thank you, but I am not a native speaker. You have found one orthographical error. You are so awesome.

Try to speak so fluent in polish as I am in english.

All I was saying was on the subject of the lack of the reasons to replace the Bible. I know that all you atheist can do is changing the subject and name calling. I do not know if you are doing so because you have hard time reading, do not know what a rhetorical figure of speech is, or you just do not know the meaning of words in general. If I would have to bet I would say all above.

If you think it is only fairy tale it is your choice. But I do not understand your shallow use of this word. There are a lot of things that can be called that. All you do is reserve that for religion. Why? What else do you think is a fairy tale? I would say you just create a fraudulent impression of the ability to think critically.

I can not see any virtue in being proud of not seeing anything spiritual or transcedent. What is the virtue of lacking something? Is there such a virtue? I guess not.

[Vod]

It is important essential to understand that BD has his own definition of "science" and "proof" than the rest of the world.

In his little world, everything is proof the FSM exists.  To the rest of us, there is no proof at all.

Don't be too hard on my brainwashed buddy.  His parents did it to him - he was innocent.

[phreeksta]

Ohh boy are we still talking about this ...

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence. We are talking about an almighty "creature". The fact that god is "everywhere", but it wasn't possible to measure his presence till now, means ... we don't have the equipment yet, or he is so powerful that he can hide his existence, or he just doesn't exist. Nevertheless, there is no SCIENTIFIC proof today. And NO ... wether mentions of god in an old book, nor some people telling about seeing god is not a SCIENTIFIC proof.