[XMR] Monero Speculation

[TrueCryptonaire]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480.0

And the debate did die down for a few months, until a little bit of mean reversion caused a whale with delusions of grandeur to freak out and demand Something Be Done^TM.

I am perhaps repeating myself but don't you think something has to be done?
Unless nothing will be done I am sure you will be able to buy coins even lower than the current pricing - then I am not sure if it is worth of buying anymore if the coin becomes insignificiant.
I remind that there are other coins in alt markets too.
Also I am not so sure if the trolls are the ones who decide which coin success or not - the factor that defines if a coin is successful or not is the number of adoption - prefertably outside of bitcointalk.org and even better - outside the crypto.
When a person who decide to where invest, most do not even consider a coin that has marketvalue of few million usd since it is not currency, it is just a way to make payments. Relatively compared to other cryptos it might be decent (among top 15) but from the perspective of non-crypto minded it is nothing - and there are plenty of coins to choose from among the few million dollar marketcaps (or sub).
Also I am not convinced if a coin which has some changes made in the emission related issues will be neglected by the future users/investors.

Just my 2 moneros.

[rpietila]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480.0

(no change)    - 42 (63.6%)

Honestly that poll was a joke. There were very likely not 42 legitimate stakeholders at the time. More like 10-20 plus BCN-controlled sock puppets.

Does a voter in the poll have to agree with you to be considered a "legitimate stakeholder?"   

No, I'm giving my opinion that there was ballot stuffing of vastly larger magnitude than honest participation. I can't prove it, but that is my opinion.

Furthermore, I never supported (nor support) the idea of a bitcointalk "poll" as a meaningful method of actual voting.

The poll was created by TFT who almost certainly was a BCN shill or associated in some manner with the BCN/CN scam operation.

Regardless of the poll numbers, a rough consensus (that the possible benefits of slower emission are outweighed by the 100% certain loss of trust resulting from breaking the social contract) did emerge from the discussion on that and other threads, which is why the emission wasn't changed.

And the debate did die down for a few months, until a little bit of mean reversion caused a whale with delusions of grandeur to freak out and demand Something Be Done^TM.

The MEW is the organ of voting exactly for the reason that here people like you who have no stake at all in the game (except perhaps on the other side of the table) can speak however much you want and be taken (about) as seriously as any anonymous person with a bit longer forum history.

It is called "put up or shut up principle" 

[lyth0s]

This isn't the area for this post, but since I put my XMR address here yesterday I'm hoping to find a specific person...

Yesterday/today someone sent me what I would be consider to be a very large amount of coins to just giveaway. If you sent me greater than 30 XMR recently can you please post or PM me your XMR address AND how many coins you sent me (proof it was you). I'm going to conduct my first send transaction and I may as well send some of your coins back to you

By the way, super THANKS for all that XMR. I hate to admit this, but that XMR "tip" just doubled my current XMR investment as I learn how it all works

I would really like to know who sent me the huge amount of Monero, at the very least let me thank you! PM's are fine if you want to remain semi-anon.

[NeuroticFish]

While I try hard and get some 0.5 XMR per week from mining and a few from converting the sig campaign, some just get lucky.
I envy you, but you seem a nice guy so I guess that you actually deserve them.

Good luck and enjoy the ride

[luigi1111]

This isn't the area for this post, but since I put my XMR address here yesterday I'm hoping to find a specific person...

Yesterday/today someone sent me what I would be consider to be a very large amount of coins to just giveaway. If you sent me greater than 30 XMR recently can you please post or PM me your XMR address AND how many coins you sent me (proof it was you). I'm going to conduct my first send transaction and I may as well send some of your coins back to you

By the way, super THANKS for all that XMR. I hate to admit this, but that XMR "tip" just doubled my current XMR investment as I learn how it all works

I would really like to know who sent me the huge amount of Monero, at the very least let me thank you! PM's are fine if you want to remain semi-anon.

If they gave them to you, they are probably reading this thread.

You could evangelize 3-5 people outside of crypto and donate some to them (web wallet will be much better for new people).

[nioc]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480.0

And the debate did die down for a few months, until a little bit of mean reversion caused a whale with delusions of grandeur to freak out and demand Something Be Done^TM.

I am perhaps repeating myself but don't you think something has to be done?
Unless nothing will be done I am sure you will be able to buy coins even lower than the current pricing - then I am not sure if it is worth of buying anymore if the coin becomes insignificiant.
I remind that there are other coins in alt markets too.
Also I am not so sure if the trolls are the ones who decide which coin success or not - the factor that defines if a coin is successful or not is the number of adoption - prefertably outside of bitcointalk.org and even better - outside the crypto.
When a person who decide to where invest, most do not even consider a coin that has marketvalue of few million usd since it is not currency, it is just a way to make payments. Relatively compared to other cryptos it might be decent (among top 15) but from the perspective of non-crypto minded it is nothing - and there are plenty of coins to choose from among the few million dollar marketcaps (or sub).
Also I am not convinced if a coin which has some changes made in the emission related issues will be neglected by the future users/investors.

Just my 2 moneros.

There seems to be 2 sides of something has to be done.  One has only upside, no negative consequences.  That is development of the software and development of the network around it.  It was my understanding that that was the vision for creating MEW.  Donating to the devs and working on adoption as well.  The donating has been done.

TrueCryptonaire I believe I suggested a while ago that you donate to the devs via the Monero Community Hall of Fame, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700400.0

It was started by rpietila.  Agree or disagree with his stance on the emissions change it must be admitted that he has put his creative energies into Monero. 

The love you take is equal to the love you make, The Beatles.

[rangedriver]

The love you take is equal to the love you make, The Beatles.

Technically that's only in the end.

[nioc]

indeed 

[iCEBREAKER]

Regardless of the poll numbers, a rough consensus (that the possible benefits of slower emission are outweighed by the 100% certain loss of trust resulting from breaking the social contract) did emerge from the discussion on that and other threads, which is why the emission wasn't changed.

And the debate did die down for a few months, until a little bit of mean reversion caused a whale with delusions of grandeur to freak out and demand Something Be Done^TM.

The MEW is the organ of voting exactly for the reason that here people like you who have no stake at all in the game (except perhaps on the other side of the table) can speak however much you want and be taken (about) as seriously as any anonymous person with a bit longer forum history.

It is called "put up or shut up principle" 

"No stake at all in the game?"  How do you know what my stake is or is not?  Did the voices in your head tell you?   

"Perhaps on the other side of the table?"  Why would I advertise XMR in my sig, defend/explain/endorse it all over this board, and develop a popular idea for funding it, if I was shorting XMR?  Paranoia is a symptom of mental illness.   

"A bit longer forum history?"  I'm a 2011 Hero Member and if you can't tell the difference between that and "any anonymous person" you need to up the dosage on your meds.

The free market, not the MEW, is the organ of voting via supply and demand's pricing mechanism.  The free market has decided the FUD created by your revival and rehashing of the long-settled emission debate is Bad News for XMR.

Nobody with actual github privileges is going to break XMR's famously honest social contract by changing the emission rate just to satisfy your need for a cheap pump and retroactive ninja-mine.  Even if they did, the community of miners would simply keep running the original code, resulting in a fork which would destroy both versions.

It is called the "build a bridge and get over it" principle.   

[rpietila]

This user is currently ignored.

[Hueristic]

This user is currently ignored.

LOL, I went to click the Show/Hide button.

[lyth0s]

This isn't the area for this post, but since I put my XMR address here yesterday I'm hoping to find a specific person...

Yesterday/today someone sent me what I would be consider to be a very large amount of coins to just giveaway. If you sent me greater than 30 XMR recently can you please post or PM me your XMR address AND how many coins you sent me (proof it was you). I'm going to conduct my first send transaction and I may as well send some of your coins back to you

By the way, super THANKS for all that XMR. I hate to admit this, but that XMR "tip" just doubled my current XMR investment as I learn how it all works

I would really like to know who sent me the huge amount of Monero, at the very least let me thank you! PM's are fine if you want to remain semi-anon.

If they gave them to you, they are probably reading this thread.

You could evangelize 3-5 people outside of crypto and donate some to them (web wallet will be much better for new people).

Yeah whoever sent it has to be reading this.

I already used part of the Monero to get one of my other buddies into XMR (using a Bter wallet for now because they are very non-tech savvy). That GUI monero wallet that is being created looks amazing!

I think I'll wait for either the DB wallet functionality and/or the GUI wallet and then I'll start giving away some free XMR to my FB buddies.

[iCEBREAKER]

This user is currently ignored.

Heh, looks like touch a (frayed?) nerve.   

Don't take it so hard, this is tough love.

Unlike many others, I won't indulge your crazy when it acts up and starts overriding your normal admirable coherence.

Would you like some help planning your (overdue) vacation?

I am willing to personally drive you around Napa, Sonoma, and Santa Cruz, at no charge, to demonstrate the sincerity of my belief that you need to take a break from crypto for a while.  I know all the best places, and we will taste Cabs, Pinots, and Ports that will knock your alpaca socks off!   

[Vanderi]

Perhaps Monero was a pump & dump after all. The miners rigged the original vote about reasonable emission curve in their hopes of making money with optimized (non-deoptimized) mining software. It worked. The promise of finally having something fresh in the altcoin scene, with fair launch and compelling new tech was so good.

I think the only people who have understandable grounds in opposing the emission cut are the only ones who benefit from the current situation - the privileged miners, ones who should not even exist, according to my understanding from the others who are deeply involved. If I have been wrong and such people do exist, their short-term interest is to have as high emission as possible (same as in April when they foiled the vote the last time). Long term (a few months probably), the coin is mortally wounded, but to them it does not matter.

A common tactic in high-profile voting is to demonize the ones who lean on the opposite side. But that's what I am going to do anyway 

If you reject the proposal of the emission cut, the hardest part for me is that I am not sure if you even have Monero's good in mind.

Hey, how about we change this discussion to the Monero Forum! It is a better software than this!

^^^This kind of stuff is why I don't join self-important harmless-at-best granfalloons like the BTC Foundation and your MEW.

You knew the emission curve when you bought and it is not fair to change the rules in the middle of game.

Since you are demonizing, I will up the ante and psychologize:

Please take a vacation for the remainder of the low phase of your manic depressive cycle.  And don't forget your crazy pills!

Monero is only six months old and not even complete; it's far too early to panic because you're getting cold feet and going off the rails (again).

The emission will not be changed merely to assuage your desire for a short-term pump attempt.

You are hereby relieved of your duties as the CEO Of Monero until such time as you regain your composure and stop creating unhealthy controversial FUD about the settled issue of (main body, non-tailend) emission.

If you want out, feel free to dump at a loss into my stronger hands.   

Hey IB when you have the time throw me with a pm, I have happy happy material for ya.

Thanks

[TrueCryptonaire]

This user is currently ignored.

Heh, looks like touch a (frayed?) nerve.   

You call it touching the nerve.
If I was you I would call it "humiliating others" with their weaknesses.
I do not know your morals but to me this type of harsh speaking shows lack of manners and thus makes you look like a 13-year-old kid.

[iCEBREAKER]

This user is currently ignored.

Heh, looks like touch a (frayed?) nerve.   

You call it touching the nerve.
If I was you I would call it "humiliating others" with their weaknesses.
I do not know your morals but to me this type of harsh speaking shows lack of manners and thus makes you look like a 13-year-old kid.

It was RP who consciously initiated the "demonizing" rhetoric; I merely upped the ante by subsuming that invalid frame with outlandish psychologizing.   

RP presumed to make "harsh" assumptions about whether or not I had a stake in XMR, and even speculated that I may be shorting it; it's fair play to mock such ad hom attacks with my own turnabout.

I am well aware of RP's weaknesses and am attempting to aid him in healing them.  OTOH, your indulgence will only prevent positive growth, in much the same manner as over-application of antibiotics creates resistant strains and autoimmune disorders.

Treating RP like a helpless child or mental patient will not help him.  We must not lower our expectations and instead guard against the temptation to relent from the rational approach of ruthless compassion.

I've offered to provide RP enjoyable much-needed distraction from the crypto bear market, in the form of fabulous world class wine tastings at no expense other than air fare.  What have you done to help, besides scold me and kiss his (regal) ass?   

[TrueCryptonaire]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480.0

And the debate did die down for a few months, until a little bit of mean reversion caused a whale with delusions of grandeur to freak out and demand Something Be Done^TM.

I am perhaps repeating myself but don't you think something has to be done?
Unless nothing will be done I am sure you will be able to buy coins even lower than the current pricing - then I am not sure if it is worth of buying anymore if the coin becomes insignificiant.
I remind that there are other coins in alt markets too.
Also I am not so sure if the trolls are the ones who decide which coin success or not - the factor that defines if a coin is successful or not is the number of adoption - prefertably outside of bitcointalk.org and even better - outside the crypto.
When a person who decide to where invest, most do not even consider a coin that has marketvalue of few million usd since it is not currency, it is just a way to make payments. Relatively compared to other cryptos it might be decent (among top 15) but from the perspective of non-crypto minded it is nothing - and there are plenty of coins to choose from among the few million dollar marketcaps (or sub).
Also I am not convinced if a coin which has some changes made in the emission related issues will be neglected by the future users/investors.

Just my 2 moneros.

There seems to be 2 sides of something has to be done.  One has only upside, no negative consequences.  That is development of the software and development of the network around it.  It was my understanding that that was the vision for creating MEW.  Donating to the devs and working on adoption as well.  The donating has been done.

TrueCryptonaire I believe I suggested a while ago that you donate to the devs via the Monero Community Hall of Fame, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700400.0

It was started by rpietila.  Agree or disagree with his stance on the emissions change it must be admitted that he has put his creative energies into Monero. 

The love you take is equal to the love you make, The Beatles.

Why should I give money for free?
I will rather get (passive) income from my moneros instead of just donating.
Better to organize businesses and ask partnerships (="shares") which I am able to buy and get dividends on regular basis.

[TrueCryptonaire]

This user is currently ignored.

Heh, looks like touch a (frayed?) nerve.   

You call it touching the nerve.
If I was you I would call it "humiliating others" with their weaknesses.
I do not know your morals but to me this type of harsh speaking shows lack of manners and thus makes you look like a 13-year-old kid.

It was RP who consciously initiated the "demonizing" rhetoric; I merely upped the ante by subsuming that invalid frame with outlandish psychologizing.   

RP presumed to make "harsh" assumptions about whether or not I had a stake in XMR, and even speculated that I may be shorting it; it's fair play to mock such ad hom attacks with my own turnabout.

I am well aware of RP's weaknesses and am attempting to aid him in healing them.  OTOH, your indulgence will only prevent positive growth, in much the same manner as over-application of antibiotics creates resistant strains and autoimmune disorders.

Treating RP like a helpless child or mental patient will not help him.  We must not lower our expectations and instead guard against the temptation to relent from the rational approach of ruthless compassion.

I've offered to provide RP enjoyable much-needed distraction from the crypto bear market, in the form of fabulous world class wine tastings at no expense other than air fare.  What have you done to help, besides scold me and kiss his (regal) ass?   

You told/hinted in your previous messages that you do not have a stake in Monero (=you want to buy from the RP's dump).
We are not treating RP like a little kid but there is no reason to be harsh and nasty.

But now we are moving away from the discussion of changing the emission, when you, IB, have purchased enough Moneros, are you willing to change the emission then? 19 000 xmr is created currently on daily basis and I am afraid there will be no liquidity after some time. Perhaps currently there is liquidity in the markets as we are buying them, but let's think 6 months from now?
Also, nobody has debunked the argument of saving the emission for later adopters - now Monero can be considered as ninja-mined by the community from the point of view of later adopters.

[smooth]

Let's move on from the discussion of specific personalities here. If there are issues related to speculating on the future of Monero, those are on topic. Or at least tie it in directly if you are going to discuss it here (politely)

[iCEBREAKER]

You told/hinted in your previous messages that you do not have a stake in Monero (=you want to buy from the RP's dump).
We are not treating RP like a little kid but there is no reason to be harsh and nasty.

But now we are moving away from the discussion of changing the emission, when you, IB, have purchased enough Moneros, are you willing to change the emission then? 19 000 xmr is created currently on daily basis and I am afraid there will be no liquidity after some time. Perhaps currently there is liquidity in the markets as we are buying them, but let's think 6 months from now?
Also, nobody has debunked the argument of saving the emission for later adopters - now Monero can be considered as ninja-mined by the community from the point of view of later adopters.

That is a lie; I've never hinted that I do not have stake in Monero.  Have you even seen my signature, or my participation in the dev fund discussion?

Speaking of dev funds, the only emission change I'd agree is reasonable is a bootstrap block auctioned off in an open and transparent manner.

A 1-2% bootstrap block would (probably/possibly) provide cheap XMR for later adopters.  We could make it coincide with the GUI/DB launch too!   

Halving the emission at this late date results in a retroactive ninja-mine, because all of us who gobbled up early coins would benefit unfairly from the artificial decrease in supply.  That is not acceptable, and is especially objectionable because the (trivial) impetus for such an action is a mere couple months of bear market.