[XMR] Monero Speculation

[BanditryAndLoot]

This paragraph is loaded in every sense of the word. I will try to answer it for you

I thought about this too but then it occurred to me why wouldn't a company like Valve just make their own currency that they have direct control over? I feel like just about every corporate entity would rather develop their own coin that use somebody else's.

We're seeing a major push toward turing completeness on the blockchain in more than one coin now I think. We have almost entire operating systems being offered by eMunie and Whitecoin. Basically, it sounds like you're asking me if Valve would like to take over OS development . While I admit they might do a great job at it, this is not the focus of their company - as the focus of their company is to make damn good games that look nice and play well. Generally, to turn a profit, a gaming company would like to remain focused on what they do, as that is what they specialize in, and leave things like developing Windows, BSD, Mac or Linux core development alone (or rather, work side by side).

I'm not saying it's out of the question forever as to why they don't fork their own currency, but why put out the extra effort when most altcoins have a market cap of well under $100,000? Basically, you'd have a company running another low-volume turd coin for capitol they can't really monitize. Maybe if it takes off - sure, but I don't see them considering it 'fiscally responsible' to dedicate a paid team to alternative currency development right off the bat. Even for a company that's valued around 2-4 billion USD. Basically, in the year or five or ten that it takes a company like Valve to even build a social and technical need for their own currency, anything can happen. Even then, there's still exchange volatility to deal with (ADD: and don't forget about the legality of minting your own currency - the legal team around it would be just huge guaranteed. I wonder where Valve is incorporated?). How many currencies in such a short amount of time can reliably take root?

Also, by saying you guys, you're placing people that post in this thread into a category of people that you have labeled as whatever. The first thing that does is tell me you're biased and bigoted about people, because me personally has derived most every idea I've decided to share here from legitimate interest and possible support of other coins. To place everyone into one little box of targeted coin supporters is an inflammatory gesture, and I don't like it. Please, consider that I'm also a partial supporter of these other miscellaneous currencies:

...Counteryparty, Doge, Anoncoin, Monero, Darkcoin, Boolberry, Bitcoindark, Saffroncoin, Node, Darknote, Crypti, Checkcoin, Securitysyscoin?, Primecoin, Namecoin, Etherium, Bitmark, Riecoin, Cryptonite, Maskcoin, MC2, Skycoin, Siacoin, Lottoshares, MMC2, Gameleaguecoin?, eUtopium?, IronBankCoin?, Huntercoin, SIGA, Peercoin, Bitnet?, eMunie, Maidsafe, Ripple, Nostrum?, Zennet, Zerocash, WorldWideCoin? and other various new coin projects...

[NewLiberty]

I feel like I must be in a parallel universe or there is something I'm not reading correctly.

It is strange to me that the work on the game would cause people to somehow feel worse about XMR.  It's not like rpietila is the main dev working on any of the other dev team projects.  This is just a cherry on top of the sundae.  I mean, if they came out and said, "hey, we're going to drop the GUI wallet because we've got this new game coming out," that would be one thing.  But that isn't the case.

I think it's because rpietila is seen by some as a major figure in Monero to the extent that what he says or does has a big impact on the direction of XMR. Whether or not that is technically true is irrelevant, providing that people look to rpietila for a sense of what the future holds. If I'm honest, the first time I heard about the game my initial reaction was to sell and to abandon ship, simply because it just sounds like a joke - if nothing else but for the simple reason that it's not going to have any effect on the price, nor is it useful in expanding XMR's userbase. I got into XMR because it was marketted as a serious enterprise that would deliver a credible anonymous coin with the ability to shift 6 or 7 figure USD volumes. I still believe this will ultimately be the case. But when everyone's talking about the 'game' being a major thing for XMR - I'm like, okay well that's fine, but at the same time not the type of ball park I was expecting. Perhaps if just as much energy was put into winning BTC-e I'd be more optimistic.

unfortunately, i have to agree here. Moneros main reason to exist is to transfer money anonymously. How this game could help grow serious userbase that wants to use xmr as a way to transfer money, because they need or want the anonymity for what they do, is beyond me. it feels like a waste of energy in times where support seems to be so low and userbase is shrinking. I am sorry to say, but we do not need the people that hold 5 xmr somewhere as an in-game currency. we need serious people that want to transfer money anon, for whatever reasons there might be. Maybe its just me that got i wrong. I thought our main targted usecases would be hiding money, useing anon currency to buy illegal stuff and kick the contoll freaks in the ass.

Maybe that is your goal, mine is different.
I'd like it to be used for just about everything that money is used for.

If you get your way, then everyone using it gets charged with racketeering under the RICO act and as soon as someone learns you have any, you're busted.

The game is not all that big of a deal, its just one of the next things coming, but you should recognize that you need this game far more than you think you do.  You are thinking too small.

[nutildah]

To place everyone into one little box of targeted coin supporters is an inflammatory gesture, and I don't like it.

Sorry I hurt your feelings, but I'm just wondering why a company would risk integrating a currency built outside of their control into their game when they could simply create their own currency.

[smooth]

The idea of a coin that is only used for "dark markets" is rather absurd. Why would a seller on such a market even accept a coin that can't be used for anything else? The utility of the coin can increase by being useful in more markets than other means of payment, but only being useful in certain markets would destroy its value.

[smooth]

To place everyone into one little box of targeted coin supporters is an inflammatory gesture, and I don't like it.

Sorry I hurt your feelings, but I'm just wondering why a company would risk integrating a currency built outside of their control into their game when they could simply create their own currency.

Only if customers prefer it.

[nutildah]

I'm just wondering why a company would risk integrating a currency built outside of their control into their game when they could simply create their own currency.

Only if customers prefer it.

Most of their customers still have no clue what cryptocurrency is, because most people still have no clue what it is.

[rpietila]

you need this game far more than you think you do.  You are thinking too small.

qfpw.

[BanditryAndLoot]

To place everyone into one little box of targeted coin supporters is an inflammatory gesture, and I don't like it.

Sorry I hurt your feelings, but I'm just wondering why a company would risk integrating a currency built outside of their control into their game when they could simply create their own currency.

Feelings are for children, the point of the statement was that by being biased, you're showing me that you are curbing your potential to participate in a discussion you seem to want to participate in

Anyways, in response, I'd ask this: Why do these companies currently take the risk on integrating the USD with their in-game payment systems?

Why could I originally go to Diablo III and have a USD/in game item market place? Or why can I buy in-game currencies with my USD? Why do companies offer the pay USD to win campaign? Because it offers all the return with very little work.

Why mint your own currency, when there's already a framework in which people can already exchange and measure value? The effort to create such a financial structure is vast, and reasonably outside the scope of these companies who forego re-inventing the wheel every time they want to have a similar measure of wealth in a game. Usually, that's points or gold in exchange for the dollar with pay-to-win or pay-to-play games.

Plus, imagine all of the accusations of people who scream insider trading information at the top of their lungs? Just not a good mix and it would result in the ability to pump the currency every time a new game came out. When it settled on reasonable exchange rates again, people will have lost money. They're just not gonna go along with that. I wouldn't. I'd want my in-game currency to be tradeable for currency waaay outside the direct control of my gaming company, especially if the final denomination is tied to my fiat wealth going into the system.

I see your point about it being technically easy, but as far as it being fiscally responsible - absolutely not.

[smooth]

I'm just wondering why a company would risk integrating a currency built outside of their control into their game when they could simply create their own currency.

Only if customers prefer it.

Most of their customers still have no clue what cryptocurrency is, because most people still have no clue what it is.

For this reason you don't see Steam or anyone else (other than rpietila, and a few gambling sites) integrating cryptocoins with games today. In the future who knows. The entire cryptocurrency concept is an exercise in speculating about what may or may not happen in the future (with a small measure of trying to influence that future). What customers (or people) know about today is not the point.

[nutildah]

Anyways, in response, I'd ask this: Why do these companies currently take the risk on integrating the USD with their in-game payment systems?

Because the USD has a reputation and is backed by the US government. Pretty big reasons, really.

Why could I originally go to Diablo III and have a USD/in game item market place? Or why can I buy in-game currencies with my USD? Why do companies offer the pay USD to win campaign? Because it offers all the return with very little work.

Yes, OK I agree entirely so far.

Why mint your own currency, when there's already a framework in which people can already exchange and measure value? The effort to create such a financial structure is vast, and reasonably outside the scope of these companies who forego re-inventing the wheel every time they want to have a similar measure of wealth in a game. Usually, that's points or gold in exchange for the dollar with pay-to-win or pay-to-play games.

Also agreed. Video games don't need crypto at all.

Plus, imagine all of the accusations of people who scream insider trading information at the top of their lungs? Just not a good mix and it would result in the ability to pump the currency every time a new game came out. When it settled on reasonable exchange rates again, people will have lost money. They're just not gonna go along with that. I wouldn't. I'd want my in-game currency to be tradeable for currency waaay outside the direct control of my gaming company, especially if the final denomination is tied to my fiat wealth going into the system.

That's a fine opinion to have, but I just don't see any major game developers integrating outside cryptocurrencies into their games. Perhaps time will prove me wrong.

I see your point about it being technically easy, but as far as it being fiscally responsible - absolutely not.

This is a weird conclusion to draw based on your arguments. If I was the SEO of Valve I would much rather hire a team to make Steamcoin than use an outside crypto as there are far fewer risk factors to consider (hidden premines, pump n dumps, mining manipulation, exploits purposefully introduced into the code, etc). I'd develop SteamCoin internally, have it be the in-game currency for all new releases and trade it on Poloniex.

But this also won't ever happen due to legal and compliance issues. So, lets just leave it at it won't ever happen.

[BanditryAndLoot]

Because the USD has a reputation and is backed by the US government. Pretty big reasons, really.

Sarcasm, excellent. Then why do they not allow direct trading in company shares, or physical gold, or physical silver? How sure are you that it's not just because, for the purpose of the exchange, the USD has been made into a convenient digital medium of exchange with value they can monitize?

Also agreed. Video games don't need crypto at all.

So then, am I to understand that you do not support cryptocurrency usage? Serously, I'd like to know - as I've been operating under the assumption that you did see a reason for cryptocurrency usage at all. If fiat was no longer an option, what methods have you conceived by which games can be monitized?

That's a fine opinion to have, but I just don't see any major game developers integrating outside cryptocurrencies into their games. Perhaps time will prove me wrong.

I'm not really following why you don't see it. Care to try and convince people/me otherwise?

This is a weird conclusion to draw based on your arguments. If I was the SEO of Valve I would much rather hire a team to make Steamcoin than use an outside crypto as there are far fewer risk factors to consider (hidden premines, pump n dumps, mining manipulation, exploits purposefully introduced into the code, etc). I'd develop SteamCoin internally, have it be the in-game currency for all new releases and trade it on Poloniex.

But this also won't ever happen due to legal and compliance issues. So, lets just leave it at it won't ever happen.

You contradict yourself: "Perhaps time will prove me wrong." and "So, lets just leave it at it won't ever happen." are two completely different statements, and they're even within the same post! Are you trying to deliberately make a non argument here and just write words for the sake of writing words?

[nutildah]

Oh God. Here we go.

Because the USD has a reputation and is backed by the US government. Pretty big reasons, really.

Sarcasm, excellent. Then why do they not allow direct trading in company shares, or physical gold, or physical silver? How sure are you that it's not just because, for the purpose of the exchange, the USD has been made into a convenient digital medium of exchange with value they can monitize?

OK sure that sounds fine. What does this have to do with my point? What point are you trying to make?

So then, am I to understand that you do not support cryptocurrency usage? Serously, I'd like to know - as I've been operating under the assumption that you did see a reason for cryptocurrency usage at all.

Of course I support cryptocurrency usage. I'm talking specifically about crypto in video games, which clearly do not need it to succeed.

If fiat was no longer an option, what methods have you conceived by which games can be monitized?

Pie-in-the-sky. When fiat is no longer an option, we will all have much bigger problems than how to pay for our video games.

I'm not really following why you don't see it. Care to try and convince people/me otherwise?

For the simple reason that it hasn't happened yet. Like I said, maybe time will prove me wrong.

You contradict yourself: "Perhaps time will prove me wrong." and "So, lets just leave it at it won't ever happen." are two completely different statements,

How about this? "I don't think it will ever happen, but perhaps time will prove me wrong."

[nioc]

Of course I support cryptocurrency usage. I'm talking specifically about crypto in video games, which clearly do not need it to succeed.

What needs crypto to in order to succeed?

[BanditryAndLoot]

Oh God. Here we go.

You're right, it's a little tedious. It's okay though, we can disagree and that's alright. I look through these threads and I see a steadily increasing amount of cryptocurrencies priming themselves to be used in conjunction with games over the next year and likely beyond, for various and unique reasons between currencies. Monero now has an avid supporter trying to provide a trustless faucet/pay to win game on any internet browser. Gameleaguecoin seems to be focusing on tablet and phone app devices. Hyper coin seems to be focusing on downloaded games like counterstrike. Huntercoin has an actual implementation of a game on the blockchain. Gamerholic coin is another one that popped up - I'm not sure what they're up to yet. I look at the gaming industry, and see that it's rapidly heading towards open source platforms. Noting that the cryptography used in cryptocurrencies can be applied to fields other than cryptocurrencies, I mix the two together and say that, perhaps, it would be a bit harder to hack games if there was a cryptocurrency implementation?

If they decide to use their own currency, that's fine. If they decide to use another currency, that's fine too. Point is - I see a use for the technology found in cryptocurrencies in games. If you'd like to see my long-ass rambling on that, it can be found here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435170.msg9026406#msg9026406 .

If you don't agree with this becoming a trend, then that's fine. If you don't agree with this becoming a necessity, that's fine too. There were people saying for months that anon didn't matter in a cryptocurrency, then they got pumped to hell. Those people got a lot quieter for a little while, while anonymous currencies flourished to the point where people were sick of them. Even after this recent phase, some people are saying they're not necessary and some people are saying they're necessary. To this day, we still don't know if it's a necessity. We understand news interviews like the most recent one from bloomberg, here: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/benjamin-lawsky-we-can-police-bitcoin-aZCPkB8PSdSPVzaeZFME~g.html, a link from NewLiberty, where lawsky outlines a situation where cryptocurrencies will face regulation based on technical aspects that have since been changed and are different from bitcoin. Regulations will likely be passed, that may affect some cryptocurrencies and not others. Maybe some people will see a new legitimacy to anon coins, maybe they won't. Anyways, I'm rambling .. damn I'm tired.

If nothing else, then let's leave it at, "I do think it will happen, but perhaps time will prove me wrong", and if it doesn't happen, then you will have been totally right about something and time won't prove you wrong. Seems time's the only thing that actually has anything relevant to contribute to the conversation, so I guess I'll be back tomorrow.

[nutildah]

I'm not reading all that.

But you have a nice day, too.

[nutildah]

Of course I support cryptocurrency usage. I'm talking specifically about crypto in video games, which clearly do not need it to succeed.

What needs crypto to in order to succeed?

Bitcoin startup companies.

[Dotto]

Monero has lost 2 positions in the coinmarketcap in favor of cannabiscoin and nubits.

Something is wrong here

[rpietila]

Of course I support cryptocurrency usage. I'm talking specifically about crypto in video games, which clearly do not need it to succeed.

What needs crypto to in order to succeed?

Bitcoin startup companies.

But not in the gaming industry, since it obviously cannot succeed.

Just wondering, are they fluoridating your water? 

[farfiman]

Monero has lost 2 positions in the coinmarketcap in favor of cannabiscoin and nubits.

Something is wrong here

When they announced that they will peg CANN to a gram of cannibis ofc the price will rocket.

What would happen if "someone" announces that 1 XMR can be traded for 1 once of silver?

[nakaone]

Monero has lost 2 positions in the coinmarketcap in favor of cannabiscoin and nubits.

Something is wrong here

When they announced that they will peg CANN to a gram of cannibis ofc the price will rocket.

What would happen if "someone" announces that 1 XMR can be traded for 1 once of silver?

seriously I do not know what the F*** is wrong with this market - I am not in the cannabis business but how much does one gram cost 8$-12$?

this stuff is traded at 5 cents, with 90 Million Coins - I want to see the vendor who sells 90 million grams for 5 Million$.

This stuff simply does not make any sense at all.

Regarding xmr price - this is the price I expected to be around the buttom (in btc terms) in boring times of xmr - there will be less boring times ...