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Author Topic: [ANN][GAP] Gapcoin - Prime Gap Search - New Math Algo - CPU / GPU - Zero Premine  (Read 285041 times)
no-ice-please
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April 04, 2016, 11:00:20 PM
 #1261

... finding large prime gaps.  These are computationally difficult to find, but relatively easy to verify ...

Does verifying them involve only

1) Make sure the two numbers are prime
2) Make sure there are no primes between them

And it seems like with large primes both those would be relatively hard

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April 04, 2016, 11:20:58 PM
 #1262

Does verifying them involve only
1) Make sure the two numbers are prime
2) Make sure there are no primes between them

yes, except it uses a fast probabilistic primality test, which has a minuscule probability of being wrong.

Quote
And it seems like with large primes both those would be relatively hard

These tests are very fast, and we only need a few thousand of them...
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April 05, 2016, 03:07:37 AM
 #1263

... finding large prime gaps.  These are computationally difficult to find, but relatively easy to verify ...

Does verifying them involve only

1) Make sure the two numbers are prime
2) Make sure there are no primes between them

Yes, that should be all that is necessary.  To give you an idea, gapcoin has found 257 record gaps in the last 4 months across the whole network.  Verification of them all took 36.5 seconds on a single core.  There is still a very small chance the end points are pseudoprimes (this verification was with BPSW rather than a simple Fermat test).  After results get submitted to Dr. Nicely, proofs are eventually run on the endpoints if they're small enough, and that threshold is much higher than the sizes Gapcoin is producing.

Quote
And it seems like with large primes both those would be relatively hard
It depends on "large" and "hard".  Gapcoin is finding primes in the 80-400 digit range, which isn't very large.  A verification for the high end is about half a second.  It gets more interesting at 4000 digits, taking maybe 10 minutes.  At 40,000 digits it's certainly possible but quite time consuming.  Martin Raab's monster 4.7 million digit prime can have the endpoints verified with good probable prime tests in 1-2 days but the interior looks like it would take months.
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April 05, 2016, 02:32:33 PM
 #1264

Finding first occurrence or record (first known occurrence) prime gaps tells us something about the structure of the primes.  How much is debatable.  The recreational/computational task of finding them may lead to new ideas.  It demonstrably leads to more efficient software, parts of which can be re-used for other tasks.

Finding new first occurrence gaps would be, in my opinion, more useful in terms of final results, as the results are concrete: "no prime under this point starts a longer gap" vs. "we did lots of work and this is the best we found".  The process involves doing an exhaustive search, and one problem would be verification that people actually *did* the work.  The final results are flawed if anyone cheats or if a block gets skipped.  How to do a quick verification isn't immediately obvious.  Lastly, the network could compute for years and find no actual result, but just move the "no results below x" forward.  Useful, but not exciting.

Finding "the next gap" is a much easier problem, and takes as long to verify as it does to find (very slightly less, but within a few percent).  Given the task of finding record prime gaps, improving the performance of finding the next gap (or primes in a range) is important.

Large prime gaps, like twin primes, are pointing out "hey, something interesting is happening here."  That is why it is more interesting than just listing billions of primes, or finding the next prime.  From a project point of view it has the nice features of "hard to find, easy to verify", relatively linear effort/reward (unlike factoring), and a bonus reward (we broke ## first known occurrence records) to keep up interest.

There are lots of computational problems like this, many with distributed projects.  I think record prime gaps is interesting and well structured for what gapcoin wants.  I think it's easier to see the possible mathematical benefits than, say, record Mersenne primes, large arithmetic progressions, or Riesel prime searches.
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April 05, 2016, 05:04:57 PM
 #1265

Does verifying them involve only

1) Make sure the two numbers are prime
2) Make sure there are no primes between them

Note that item 1) could be left out entirely.

Item 2) by itself guarantees a gap.
In case 1) doesn't hold, the actual gap is simply bigger than claimed.

In fact for the sake of simplicity, 1) *should* be left out.

You end up with a simpler notion, consecutive composites, and with simpler
verification code, that no longer needs the uncertainty of probabilistic prime tests.

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April 06, 2016, 06:51:00 AM
Last edit: April 06, 2016, 02:29:20 PM by YomKi
 #1266

The probable prime test on the endpoints is a quite small portion of time.  It's also mostly playing with semantics as the endpoints are those that failed the test we applied to the interior post-sieve candidates.  Most importantly, it also doesn't match the way the records have been stated over the last 20 years, and would lead to very different record results.  Specifically, the records are stored by gap size (with prime endpoints).

The test Dr. Nicely's cglp4 does is strong BPSW, and it's possible to add additional non-overlapping probable primality tests for little cost.

Proofs are possible.  On the 257 gapcoin record gaps, doing the verification including a primality proof of the endpoints took under 8 minutes on a single core of a home computer.  But the time grows rapidly as the size increases, and isn't feasible past 30k digits with today's software/hardware.  If you look at Nicely's results, gaps under 1000 digits typically have proven endpoints, which is quite a bit larger than gapcoin's results.
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April 07, 2016, 11:42:56 AM
 #1267

And here we go. Again. Smiley


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April 07, 2016, 12:10:35 PM
 #1268

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And here we go. Again.
if there are any news about GAP?
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April 07, 2016, 12:33:46 PM
 #1269

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And here we go. Again.
if there are any news about GAP?
News? IT'S HAPPENING! Cheesy Wink


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April 07, 2016, 12:49:28 PM
 #1270

Quote
News? IT'S HAPPENING!

what are the news that such a course is raging? Shocked
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April 07, 2016, 01:01:59 PM
 #1271

Paбoтa Grin
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April 07, 2016, 05:34:36 PM
 #1272

Paбoтa Grin
Horoshie novosti. Tol'ko tsss, burzuyam ne rasskazivai.

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April 07, 2016, 05:44:34 PM
 #1273

Quote
News? IT'S HAPPENING!

what are the news that such a course is raging? Shocked

Probably nothing except someone bought literally ALL THE COINS and now will try to pump it in order to dump it. Well if he manages to break the world record with his effort no problem with me.
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April 07, 2016, 06:54:03 PM
 #1274

Quote
News? IT'S HAPPENING!

what are the news that such a course is raging? Shocked

Probably nothing except someone bought literally ALL THE COINS and now will try to pump it in order to dump it. Well if he manages to break the world record with his effort no problem with me.

According to Poloniex, the 24 hour volume is currently 33 BTC.  So this is not one of these alt-coins that rises 200% on volume of 1.5 BTC.

So, as was asked earlier, is there any news or rumours of news? AIUI, most spikes that have volume derive from some kind of news whether legitimate or not.

Any ideas? Thanks.
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April 07, 2016, 07:00:20 PM
 #1275

Quote
News? IT'S HAPPENING!

what are the news that such a course is raging? Shocked

Probably nothing except someone bought literally ALL THE COINS and now will try to pump it in order to dump it. Well if he manages to break the world record with his effort no problem with me.

According to Poloniex, the 24 hour volume is currently 33 BTC.  So this is not one of these alt-coins that rises 200% on volume of 1.5 BTC.

So, as was asked earlier, is there any news or rumours of news? AIUI, most spikes that have volume derive from some kind of news whether legitimate or not.

Any ideas? Thanks.

Someone bought the rest like 3 weeks ago...
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April 07, 2016, 07:11:34 PM
 #1276

Quote
News? IT'S HAPPENING!

what are the news that such a course is raging? Shocked

Probably nothing except someone bought literally ALL THE COINS and now will try to pump it in order to dump it. Well if he manages to break the world record with his effort no problem with me.

According to Poloniex, the 24 hour volume is currently 33 BTC.  So this is not one of these alt-coins that rises 200% on volume of 1.5 BTC.

So, as was asked earlier, is there any news or rumours of news? AIUI, most spikes that have volume derive from some kind of news whether legitimate or not.

Any ideas? Thanks.

Someone bought the rest like 3 weeks ago...

It remains to congratulate them courage
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April 12, 2016, 06:40:06 PM
 #1277

Quote
News? IT'S HAPPENING!

what are the news that such a course is raging? Shocked

Probably nothing except someone bought literally ALL THE COINS and now will try to pump it in order to dump it. Well if he manages to break the world record with his effort no problem with me.

According to Poloniex, the 24 hour volume is currently 33 BTC.  So this is not one of these alt-coins that rises 200% on volume of 1.5 BTC.

So, as was asked earlier, is there any news or rumours of news? AIUI, most spikes that have volume derive from some kind of news whether legitimate or not.

Any ideas? Thanks.

More accurate to say that normally volume indicates that a move has some technical significance. People who study charts, technical analysts, consider volume very important.

The problem with cryptocurrencies is that
1) You never know what volume is real. Paying 0.x % fees a person may churn the volume as a marketing ploy. Buy and sell ridiculous amounts since some traders sort lists like CoinMarketCap by volume and look for spikes in volume that indicate something. This isn't likely with gapcoin though.
2) Cryptos are still so small that a lot of people are financially capable of moving a market in a major way with little money. Maybe somebody noticed that Gapcoin was created on their birthday and their middle name is "gap" so they took it as a sign from heaven to sell their retirement fund and put it all in Gapcoin. You just don't know what significance the volume has since it could have been one person creating it, for reasons that may be "unnewsworthy".

However, the simple fact that Gapcoin is a higher quality mathcoin, likely to attract the interest of people with longer term focus, suggests that there is some more valid reason for the buying, even if we don't know what it is.

My guess would be another exchange buying up a supply in preparation to list it, but that is only a guess. Second possibility is just somebody who looked at market cap and depth, did some calculations, and decided they could take over the market, including buying new coins, at x price and would make a better profit on Gapcoin than on other coins.

Ultimately it still is an inexpensive coin. The original dev pops up every now and then, and probably will sometime in coming weeks or months. New people moving into crypto will tend to focus more on "productive algorithms" than people in past years did. Gapcoin has gone up a lot but still has better long term chances than many other coins.

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April 13, 2016, 04:42:15 PM
 #1278

More accurate to say that normally volume indicates that a move has some technical significance. People who study charts, technical analysts, consider volume very important.

The problem with cryptocurrencies is that
1) You never know what volume is real. Paying 0.x % fees a person may churn the volume as a marketing ploy. Buy and sell ridiculous amounts since some traders sort lists like CoinMarketCap by volume and look for spikes in volume that indicate something. This isn't likely with gapcoin though.
2) Cryptos are still so small that a lot of people are financially capable of moving a market in a major way with little money. Maybe somebody noticed that Gapcoin was created on their birthday and their middle name is "gap" so they took it as a sign from heaven to sell their retirement fund and put it all in Gapcoin. You just don't know what significance the volume has since it could have been one person creating it, for reasons that may be "unnewsworthy".

However, the simple fact that Gapcoin is a higher quality mathcoin, likely to attract the interest of people with longer term focus, suggests that there is some more valid reason for the buying, even if we don't know what it is.

My guess would be another exchange buying up a supply in preparation to list it, but that is only a guess. Second possibility is just somebody who looked at market cap and depth, did some calculations, and decided they could take over the market, including buying new coins, at x price and would make a better profit on Gapcoin than on other coins.

Ultimately it still is an inexpensive coin. The original dev pops up every now and then, and probably will sometime in coming weeks or months. New people moving into crypto will tend to focus more on "productive algorithms" than people in past years did. Gapcoin has gone up a lot but still has better long term chances than many other coins.

Thank you for your comments. Just a couple of questions.

Is there any point "churning" i.e. selling and buying yourself? Do people see volume in itself as useful?

Also, why do you think it is an "inexpensive coin". The price has now fallen to around 900. What, in your opinion, makes this particular coin undervalued?
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April 13, 2016, 08:09:02 PM
 #1279


Thank you for your comments. Just a couple of questions.

Is there any point "churning" i.e. selling and buying yourself? Do people see volume in itself as useful?

Also, why do you think it is an "inexpensive coin". The price has now fallen to around 900. What, in your opinion, makes this particular coin undervalued?

Actually volume is such an important variable that it is the first thing "experienced" scammers would try to manipulate in order to pump a coin. Before altcoins existed there were conventional financial markets that could be manipulated for profit, but altcoins are such a wide open, lucrative field that this kind of thing is the norm now. The "average" trader even sees volume now intuitively.

Here is a common sense way a speculator would analyze volume,
1) Go to Coinmarketcap.com and click on "675 currencies" or whatever in the top left.
2) Click on the volume column to sort by that.
3) Look at the following rows, in order
a) Market cap. Go to the first mineable, unpremined coin with a low market cap, let's say < usd 100,000, which has greater than 40% increase in 24 hours and >100% in 7 days (looking at those columns)
b) if you go down this list now you will see primarily two kinds of coins. 1) Higher quality coins that are trending up, and 2) coins whose volume is fake in some sense, coins that are being pumped in preparation for a dump. Most are in the second category.
c) Keep in mind that there are a lot of automated programs being used. These try to make tiny profits on a vast number of trades, while churning volume.

So it kind of seems that even though volume is hard to decypher, you have to count it as an important variable.

As to Gapcoin specifically, here are some points to think about.

When the next crypto surge occurs, like happened in late 2013, people will be focusing on specific types of coins. There will be the "panic buying" mentality that creates chaos in all coins, but smarter stable long term money will be more disciplined than in 2013.

Most likely the money that enters cryptos will be directed by journalists opinions. Somebody will write an article about cryptos that mentions some coin in a positive way and a bunch of people will try to buy $40,000 worth of that coin even though only $2,000 worth is for sale, and at some point this dynamic will create a publicity storm.

So pretty soon any coin is going to look cheap. But you have to estimate, based on what you know about society etc, which coins are likely to be better off after the next surge relative to other coins. It's my guess, only a guess, that Gapcoin will do quite well. Market cap right now $25,000. So somebody comes along and wants to buy $200,000 worth what happens? We'll see. 



I do understand that volume is important. I have a small position in a coin which has virtually zero volume. I also think that the potential for buy orders is important.  Obviously, the price may rise based on a few buys (considering the lack of volume) but if no-one wants to buy unless the price is 20,000 below the current price, it's not so helpful.

In terms of volume, does it need to be based on news? For example does GAP need to have something positive happen for the price to rise?
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April 13, 2016, 10:12:27 PM
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I do understand that volume is important. I have a small position in a coin which has virtually zero volume. I also think that the potential for buy orders is important.  Obviously, the price may rise based on a few buys (considering the lack of volume) but if no-one wants to buy unless the price is 20,000 below the current price, it's not so helpful.

In terms of volume, does it need to be based on news? For example does GAP need to have something positive happen for the price to rise?

You seem to be talking about the difference between news and publicity and public awareness..

1) Gapcoin produces "real news" even if it isn't covered by any news site, while 2) some other coins produce "not news" that is heavily pumped by press release sites trying to convince people it is news and 3) others yet (e.g. your coin perhaps) offer something that is highly valuable but is unknown and therefore not expensive yet.


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