Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[mp420]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

[1715272286]

1715272286

[1715272286]

1715272286

[1715272286]

1715272286

[1715272286]

1715272286

[1715272286]

1715272286

[1715272286]

1715272286

[imsaguy]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

[mp420]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

You sound like a creationist.

By the way, care to explain where I am wrong? A while back I lined out why the two main theories of how his business might be legit can't be true.

[imsaguy]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

You sound like a creationist.

By the way, care to explain where I am wrong? A while back I lined out why the two main theories of how his business might be legit can't be true.

Because that's how science and the rest of the world operate.. until there's evidence, its just an idea/theory.

And a while back, I outlined a theory that is extremely plausible. So much so, that maged is researching it now.

[Clipse]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Oooh now you are an expert on how the economy works, please tell more. I will give you some free advice on how the economy of the world is working, its a massive ponzi scheme, nothing more.

Being jealous without facts doesnt make you an expert on any economy, nevermind the bitcoin economy.

Your narrow view on speculative facts, ahum yeh oxymoron hey! is a perfect example of how jealous the naive could be.

[Micon]

Let's consider the two main "business models" people tend to propose for Pirate:

If there's almost unlimited demand for bitcoins among millionaire investors (there's no proof of this at all by the way; if this were the case, BTC price would be much higher) someone else would beat Pirate by selling to them at a smaller premium. Pirate must overprice his service since he has to pay his astronomically high interest on his debt. There's only so much you can do to overprice your service just by having the right connections. Someone will have almost as good connections and will be getting a fiat loan as 3% or lower yearly rate to finance a pirate-like service and keep his fees at a small fraction of what Pirate must charge. So, Pirate will be driven out of the market very quickly, since he has voluntarily crippled himself by issuing so much ultra-high interest debt.

The second option: He's controlling the markets and earning super-high profits on market movements, since he can force others' hands by having larger volume than anyone else. Firstly, there's absolutely no evidence that this is happening and extensive evidence to the contrary. Secondly, in a highly artificially manipulated market like this, all other players will change their behaviour in order to not lose so much. Even if he can do the manipulation at high profit ratio for a short time, eventually his returns will dwindle towards nil.

So, it's utterly unbelievable that either of these is the case.

+1, but you said it all in your first line.  This latest round of Team Ponzi & the FUDdettes (aq, clipse, imsaguy) are the latest to propose a possible business model for what they think is possibly an actual 3000%+ APR paying legitimate business.  Here is what Pirate says he does with your $1M+ USD worth of bitcoins, in his own words:

Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.  

Keep making up possible business plans.  Keep piling on the denial.  

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.

[Micon]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Oooh now you are an expert on how the economy works, please tell more. I will give you some free advice on how the economy of the world is working, its a massive ponzi scheme, nothing more.

Being jealous without facts doesnt make you an expert on any economy, nevermind the bitcoin economy.

Your narrow view on speculative facts, ahum yeh oxymoron hey! is a perfect example of how jealous the naive could be.

so you are basically saying "BCST is a Ponzi, but so what the rest of the world is too"

[Micon]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

You sound like a creationist.

By the way, care to explain where I am wrong? A while back I lined out why the two main theories of how his business might be legit can't be true.

Because that's how science and the rest of the world operate.. until there's evidence, its just an idea/theory.

And a while back, I outlined a theory that is extremely plausible. So much so, that maged is researching it now.

it is a slippery slope when Pirate's investors have to theorize his business unit that pays them 3000%+ per year in interest.  I know you want to keep your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed screaming over anyone explaining how obvious scam is obvious, but you refuse to ask anyone close to you about this - have a parent, a smart uncle (everyone has the degen uncle - don't ask him) or a college professor.  Ask anyone with an MBA, any accountant or CPA to look at this thread.  Ask any Lawyer or doctor you know to read this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 and then ask them if it has any possibility of being legit.

[imsaguy]

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.

I have already.  There are similarities to a ponzi, but similarities aren't enough to determine one way or another.  I've never denied it isn't possible for him to be a ponzi, but no where have you acknowledged that its possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit. I believe its that lack of acknowledgment that shows your ignorance.  Just because you've been scammed in the past doesn't make you an expert in scams and/or economics.

[Clipse]

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Oooh now you are an expert on how the economy works, please tell more. I will give you some free advice on how the economy of the world is working, its a massive ponzi scheme, nothing more.

Being jealous without facts doesnt make you an expert on any economy, nevermind the bitcoin economy.

Your narrow view on speculative facts, ahum yeh oxymoron hey! is a perfect example of how jealous the naive could be.

so you are basically saying "BCST is a Ponzi, but so what the rest of the world is too"

I didnt expect you to respond with anything less considering your absolute braindead way of moving around live as documented on the internet.

Now for people with brains, no I didnt mean that at all.

[hgmichna]

With careful adjustments to the interest rate he might even be able to win his bet against Vandroiy, while still being a ponzi scammer.

I don't think that is possible. His problem is that every lowering of his interest rates makes his scam less attractive. If he cut down the interest to rates that are manageable over more than a year, most of his "investors" would drop out and ask for their money back, plus the already insane interest.

Vandroiy cannot lose his bet (if he has not already won it because pirateat40 violated the 30 day pre-announcement of rate change clause). Conversely, pirateat40 never even thought of winning the bet. For him it was only a public relations maneuver that went wrong, because he did not believe anybody would take the bet with any significant amount of money.

Remember how pirateat40 once offered Vandroiy to let him out of the bet? That had a 1% chance of succeeding (actually a 0% chance, but pirateat40 must have believed it had a chance). The pirate would never have done that if he had been sure to win the bet.

[Clipse]

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.

I have already.  There are similarities to a ponzi, but similarities aren't enough to determine one way or another.  I've never denied it isn't possible for him to be a ponzi, but no where have you acknowledged that its possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit. I believe its that lack of acknowledgment that shows your ignorance.  Just because you've been scammed in the past doesn't make you an expert in scams and/or economics.

This is my point since the first time I posted in this rediculous thread, You are turning assumptions and similarities into your own Facts. I found that extremely narrow minded and silly. Next the mere fact that it is you, Bryan Micon, leading this witch hunt that simply turned this thread into a turdball considering your own ethics over the years which gives you ZERO credibility to even start such a thread.

[Micon]

That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!

3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit.  BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate.  

[imsaguy]

With careful adjustments to the interest rate he might even be able to win his bet against Vandroiy, while still being a ponzi scammer.

I don't think that is possible. His problem is that every lowering of his interest rates makes his scam less attractive. If he cut down the interest to rates that are manageable over more than a year, most of his "investors" would drop out and ask for their money back, plus the already insane interest.

Vandroiy cannot lose his bet (if he has not already won it because pirateat40 violated the 30 day pre-announcement of rate change clause). Conversely, pirateat40 never even thought of winning the bet. For him it was only a public relations maneuver that went wrong, because he did not believe anybody would take the bet with any significant amount of money.

Remember how pirateat40 once offered Vandroiy to let him out of the bet? That had a 1% chance of succeeding (actually a 0% chance, but pirateat40 must have believed it had a chance). The pirate would never have done that if he had been sure to win the bet.

Gah Gah Goo Goo, this forum should really enforce an age restriction test.

They complain his rates are too high.  He lowers them.  They complain because lowering rates is a sign of things coming apart.  There really is no winning outside of shutting the business down.  I can't help but to wonder if they aren't just all shills for the same person who is actually competing with pirate for business outside of this forum.

[Clipse]

That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!

3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit.  BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate.  

Again you suck fancy words out of your thumb, where is the 3000%+ APR debt ? You make it sound like he loans from investors for a year then repay them which is absurd and just plain fking stupid. Pirate only carry debt from day to day and if he ends it tomorrow he has one day of debt to clear.

[Clipse]

With careful adjustments to the interest rate he might even be able to win his bet against Vandroiy, while still being a ponzi scammer.

I don't think that is possible. His problem is that every lowering of his interest rates makes his scam less attractive. If he cut down the interest to rates that are manageable over more than a year, most of his "investors" would drop out and ask for their money back, plus the already insane interest.

Vandroiy cannot lose his bet (if he has not already won it because pirateat40 violated the 30 day pre-announcement of rate change clause). Conversely, pirateat40 never even thought of winning the bet. For him it was only a public relations maneuver that went wrong, because he did not believe anybody would take the bet with any significant amount of money.

Remember how pirateat40 once offered Vandroiy to let him out of the bet? That had a 1% chance of succeeding (actually a 0% chance, but pirateat40 must have believed it had a chance). The pirate would never have done that if he had been sure to win the bet.

Gah Gah Goo Goo, this forum should really enforce an age restriction test.

They complain his rates are too high.  He lowers them.  They complain because lowering rates is a sign of things coming apart.  There really is no winning outside of shutting the business down.  I can't help but to wonder if they aren't just all shills for the same person who is actually competing with pirate for business outside of this forum.

Cant speak for the others but Micon is hardly a shill. Hes just an attention seeking whore who is looking for fresh love after his divorce.

Its easy to figure out when you look at his numerous poker vids where he is called out for being a complete shitbag.

[Micon]

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.

I have already.  There are similarities to a ponzi, but similarities aren't enough to determine one way or another.  I've never denied it isn't possible for him to be a ponzi, but no where have you acknowledged that its possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit. I believe its that lack of acknowledgment that shows your ignorance.  Just because you've been scammed in the past doesn't make you an expert in scams and/or economics.

1)  I fully acknowledge that it is possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit

2)  that being said, the BCST thread stats that you are a debt holder earning 7% weekly.  You do not own any equity in the business.  This amounts to 3000%+ APR, which in the history of business has never been a sustainable debt % and literally 100% of the time has always been a scam.  Facebook & Microsoft equity holders would have realized gains even higher than 3000% - but remember those were world-shaping products, that would never, ever take on 3000%+ APR debt.  It is also quite erroneous to equate this business plan:

Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.  

with the aforementioned companies.

[mp420]

If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much.  They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.

Where else are they going to go but pirate ?

Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem.

If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff.

But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand.

[Clipse]

If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much.  They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.

Where else are they going to go but pirate ?

Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem.

If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff.

But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand.

LOL

Yes they will contact MTGOX who doesnt own any of the coins traded on the market and then they would ask MTGOX to enforce a market price, right ? Do you understand what MTGOX is and what MTGOX does ?

Please sir stop spewing stupid on this forum.

[Micon]

That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!

3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit.  BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate.  

Again you suck fancy words out of your thumb, where is the 3000%+ APR debt ? You make it sound like he loans from investors for a year then repay them which is absurd and just plain fking stupid. Pirate only carry debt from day to day and if he ends it tomorrow he has one day of debt to clear.

Pirate does not have anywhere close to the principle he would owe if he were to try and pay everyone back.  Each week principle from all investors is depleted to pay the interest.  He will also offer bonuses to "leave the coins in" so he only must display to you a number on a screen as proof he is holding your money, not actually send the coins (deep thought: actually sending the coins just makes a different number in a different system on a different part of your screen.  Think about seeing actual coins in your wallet vs. a number on the BCST website - which one makes you nervous and which one do you fully trust? )