Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[nrd525]

>Bitcoin itself went from pennies to $32
>Thats a lot more than 3000%

If you pick the right "year" you get this kind of return (and in fact slightly above it).  However it wasn't sustained for longer than a year. Nor was it a steady rise, nor was it based on actual business (and that is why it collapsed 93% from the peak).

I'm still looking for real businesses.  And ones with starting capital of > $1000. 

The only way I could see getting the return is by getting all of your capital donated (and not counting your donated labor costs) - with zero capital a 3400% return is a lot easier =)

[hgmichna]

Bet thread updated …

Check also the Bets of Bitcoin bet.

Only the very gullible believe what BurtW says, because he is in on the Ponzi scheme, trying to lure newbies into parting with their money. You have been warned.

[hgmichna]

Seriously, this is what irritates me with these threads.

Why is it that every time someone posts something negative about BS&T one of you has to start posting ad-hominem attacks against that person? If it's so illogical in your opinion then fight it with logic.

It suddenly began a couple of weeks ago. My take is that the perpetrators sat together and concluded (or got ordered by pirateat40) to try to put down the fires in the forums.

After that time they began to post madly. Some posts are direct replies and rejections of Ponzi analysis posts, some are lengthy and foggy explanations trying to produce multiple reasons why it is not a Ponzi scheme, formulated such that a gullible and uneducated newbie might fall for them.

[Coin.Karma]

haha, awesome, got another weeks interest, beautiful. Such lovely work by pi-RATE.

[hgmichna]

haha, awesome, got another weeks interest, beautiful. Such lovely work by pi-RATE.

Yes, switching to auto-payout is clever. It gives you at least a chance to recover your investment and perhaps even make a gain. You would recover your initial "investment" after 14 weeks. (I once wrote 10 weeks and nobody noticed, indicating again the problems we have with maths.)

Trouble is, because of compounding greed (or should I say compounded greed?) few "investors" do it, and that is exactly why the Ponzi scheme is still operating. In fact, so few do it that not everybody will believe what you just wrote.

[memvola]

I once wrote 10 weeks and nobody noticed, indicating again the problems we have with maths.

Well, you have to care enough to reply, too. Good maneuver though, insulting others' maths skills to hide your own deficiency.

[Clipse]

Another newbie troll who escaped just long enough to voice his over confident opinion on things he really doesnt understand, Check.

Seriously, this is what irritates me with these threads.

Why is it that every time someone posts something negative about BS&T one of you has to start posting ad-hominem attacks against that person? If it's so illogical in your opinion then fight it with logic.

Look in the mirror and you will realise this goes both ways. If you and your possies want to spew speculative bs as facts then I will respond except I respond with known facts and that which I dont know I simply dont comment on, its called being smart, you should try it.

[hgmichna]

I once wrote 10 weeks and nobody noticed, indicating again the problems we have with maths.

Well, you have to care enough to reply, too. Good maneuver though, insulting others' maths skills to hide your own deficiency.

To be fair, if I insulted anybody, then I insulted myself too. But "insulted" is really an exaggeration for my far too gentle statement.

Let's say, I tickled our desire to apply maths properly.

[Shadow383]

Another newbie troll who escaped just long enough to voice his over confident opinion on things he really doesnt understand, Check.

Seriously, this is what irritates me with these threads.

Why is it that every time someone posts something negative about BS&T one of you has to start posting ad-hominem attacks against that person? If it's so illogical in your opinion then fight it with logic.

Look in the mirror and you will realise this goes both ways. If you and your possies want to spew speculative bs as facts then I will respond except I respond with known facts and that which I dont know I simply dont comment on, its called being smart, you should try it.

Uh huh.
So giving vast amounts of money to some random guy on the internet who claims to be able to offer you absolutely vast returns, but won't disclose his business model, liabilities etc etc etc is "being smart" is it?

Funny, that sounds a lot like being gullible.
Perhaps if:

1-There was some evidence that the sort of trade required to make those interest payments every week without eating into principal was taking place.
2-Pirate and his cronies were a bit more transparent about things like the size of liabilities involved.

Then people might be happier with the idea of investing.

Throwing your money into a black box in a pseudo-anonymous currency in which chargebacks are impossible isn't "being smart" - I can accept if people want to take the risk for those returns, but there are some serious questions that need answered before I'm convinced it's not a scam.

So, stop being such a monumental tool, basically.

[imsaguy]

Pirate and his cronies

Please, who are his cronies?

[drrussellshane]

Pirate and his cronies

Please, who are his cronies?

You're obviously one of them!

 

[Ilikeham]

In the vacuum that is a lack of evidence saying otherwise, many things point to a Pirate pyramid. We get this.

The insane style of "I'm better than you so I must be right" delivery by the OP, the trolling of other threads and holier than thou attitude means I'd actually kick the OP in the nads before I did the same to the pyramid operator.

Seriously, if you want to be holier than Pirate and others, up your game and act professional.

[Micon]

In the vacuum that is a lack of evidence saying otherwise, many things point to a Pirate pyramid. We get this.

The insane style of "I'm better than you so I must be right" delivery by the OP, the trolling of other threads and holier than thou attitude means I'd actually kick the OP in the nads before I did the same to the pyramid operator.

Seriously, if you want to be holier than Pirate and others, up your game and act professional.

so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out? 

[556j]

Bet thread updated:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.0

You realize until you have the coins in your wallet your gain is zero and your loss is 10,000 BTC, right?

[imsaguy]

Pirate and his cronies

Please, who are his cronies?

You're obviously one of them!

 

How so?

[Frankie]

Bet thread updated:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.0

You realize until you have the coins in your wallet your gain is zero and your loss is 10,000 BTC, right?

You realize that the best way for him to maximize his return is to convince additional marks to put money into it, right? BurtW seems to understand it perfectly.

[Clipse]

so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out?  

Again I ask you to provide any shred of evidence for your claim above and I bet you will again ignore this question.

Show all of us your evidence of the $1M+ that pirate stole from the BTC community and I will back you up on all the retarded posts you have made so far.

Please, I am waiting. Maybe after reading this a few times you will figure out just how retarded all these claims come to be but it wouldnt surprise me that you dont understand the difference between speculation and facts.

[Clipse]

Another newbie troll who escaped just long enough to voice his over confident opinion on things he really doesnt understand, Check.

Seriously, this is what irritates me with these threads.

Why is it that every time someone posts something negative about BS&T one of you has to start posting ad-hominem attacks against that person? If it's so illogical in your opinion then fight it with logic.

Look in the mirror and you will realise this goes both ways. If you and your possies want to spew speculative bs as facts then I will respond except I respond with known facts and that which I dont know I simply dont comment on, its called being smart, you should try it.

Uh huh.
So giving vast amounts of money to some random guy on the internet who claims to be able to offer you absolutely vast returns, but won't disclose his business model, liabilities etc etc etc is "being smart" is it?

Funny, that sounds a lot like being gullible.
Perhaps if:

1-There was some evidence that the sort of trade required to make those interest payments every week without eating into principal was taking place.
2-Pirate and his cronies were a bit more transparent about things like the size of liabilities involved.

Then people might be happier with the idea of investing.

Throwing your money into a black box in a pseudo-anonymous currency in which chargebacks are impossible isn't "being smart" - I can accept if people want to take the risk for those returns, but there are some serious questions that need answered before I'm convinced it's not a scam.

So, stop being such a monumental tool, basically.

You need to go back to school and understand that those who make the claim should provide the evidence/facts. You are the one claiming this is a scam/ponzi without any evidence. Its not up to me to convince you that its not a scam/ponzi.

Those who want to invest will invest, the only people seemingly unhappy in this thread is those of you who have no interest to invest anyways which I find amusing.

None of my responses are geared towards getting people to invest, I really couldnt give 2 shits if people dont invest, I am merely pointing out how all of your "cronies" keep barking about this without ANY evidence yet stating your reasons as facts.

Id much rather be a logical sharp usefull tool than an illogical emotional manchild.

[Shadow383]

You need to go back to school and understand that those who make the claim should provide the evidence/facts. You are the one claiming this is a scam/ponzi without any evidence. Its not up to me to convince you that its not a scam/ponzi.

Thanks to this glowing appraisal of yours, allow me to announce my fantastic new business plan:

5000% APR Deposits!  

FAQ:
1- "So what's your business plan?"
Can't tell you. Arbitrage. Need money.

2- "Who are your customers?"
Can't tell you. Secret.

3- "What are your liabilities?"
LOL, Why are you interested, moron?

4- "Where do you derive your revenue stream?"
LOL, It's so obvious, why can't you work it out?

5- "There doesn't seem to be enough traffic on any of the known exchanges for you to make enough profit to fund your returns without eating into principle. Where are you trading, with whom?"
LOL, Can't tell you. Secret.

Minimum deposit 500BTC, 10000% APR if you deposit over 10000BTC.
FIRST COME FIRST SERVE!

Okay, so I jest.

The point is, you're totally full of shit here Clipse. The responsibility of disclosing major business fundamentals lies with the person who runs the business. If someone suspects fraud, I'd argue that it's their duty to make others aware of that. If there's clearly nothing to their argument, then people won't be dissuaded from investing.

If, however, there is something to the argument, then it's up to the business owner, or people involved in the business (in this case, Pirate and the operators of the various PPT schemes) to prove that the allegations are false.

The "proving the allegations are false" bit usually requires you to provide proof of, say:

-Some sort of revenue stream asides new deposits that would cover interest payments.
-Assets greater than liabilities.

Something along those lines.

To clarify, personal attacks directed at people who have doubts about BS&T do not count as evidence that its operations are sound
I know, that's a great shame, you were all doing so well.

The correct way to stop people speculating that BS&T is a giant ponzi would be to provide evidence that it has some obscenely profitable business asides taking deposits. This should be remarkably easy for any business, legal or otherwise, and let's not forget that the BS&T FAQ states that nothing it does is illegal, so there should be little to hide.

[Micon]

so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out?  

Again I ask you to provide any shred of evidence for your claim above and I bet you will again ignore this question.

Show all of us your evidence of the $1M+ that pirate stole from the BTC community and I will back you up on all the retarded posts you have made so far.

Please, I am waiting. Maybe after reading this a few times you will figure out just how retarded all these claims come to be but it wouldnt surprise me that you dont understand the difference between speculation and facts.

so here we are again, with Pirate acting exactly, and I mean almost to the letter of a ponzi:

1)  Here is a 5 min video explaining how a Ponzi Scheme is a redistribution of wealth, not an investment or lending activity.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW5aDmQLqVY

2)  here is a second link with some elements to look for in a Ponzi -- http://economics.about.com/od/financialmarkets/f/ponzi_scheme.htm

3)  here is the wikipedia for a Ponzi -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

4)  here are pirateat40's own words from this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Why should I trust you?
A: My #bitcoin-otc ratings are available in my signature. I've run BS&T for a while now and although past performance does not guarantee future results, it does alleviate some of the concerns investing brings. With that said, you should always consider an investments objectives, risks and expenses before investing your money.

Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.  

Q: How do I setup an account?
A: To open an account at BS&T you'll need to be referred by a current account holder.  This allows me to limit new accounts from unknown or untrustworthy users while building trust between the members of the network.

Q: Why did you send coins back to me?
A: The system has a floating threshold that's based on the amount of activity expected in any given week.  If a deposit is made that exceeds the threshold, coins are forced out of the system.

Current Weekly Interest Rates 3
5,000+ BTC 5%
15,000+ BTC 6%
25,000+ BTC 7%

If the bolded area did not scare you off this investment, your scam-dar is severely broken and you must repair it.  If I'm short and condescending it's because your stupid for investing in this bullshit.  I have been stupid and gotten scammed before too.  I'm trying to help anyone that is currently invested get out and I'm trying to prevent new ppl on the fence from getting scammed.

The very first line of "Characteristics" under the Ponzi wiki:

Typically extraordinary returns are promised on the investment,[5] and vague verbal constructions such as "hedge futures trading," "high-yield investment programs", "offshore investment" might be used


NOW FUCKING OPEN YOUR GOD DAMN EYES AND LOOK AT PIRATEAT40'S FAQ:


Pirateat40's FAQ:
Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related


DOES THAT SOUND LIKE VAGUE CONSTRUCTIONS?  HIGH-YIELD INVESTMENT PROGRAMS?  MOTHERFUCKER SAYS "LARGE INVESTMENT TRANSACTIONS" AND THE OLDIE BUT GOODIE "MARKET ARBITRAGE" AND YOU GUYS FIRE $1M+ USD WORTH OF BTC TO A GUY ON THE INTERNET NAMED PIRATE.  AT LEAST THE STORY WILL BE FULL OF YOUR NAIVE AND CUTE LITTLE FINANCIAL LULZ