Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[JoelKatz]

I don't like where this discussion is going. Before we know it we are back at "BITCOIN IS A PONZI1111!!!!!".

I thought we were done with that 

If you don't want something brought up, why did you bring it up? There was basically zero chance the conversation was going to go that way, and there probably still is basically zero chance.

[1714153503]

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[Ponies]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e165/RolloTomasi_01/miconsystem.gif

The micon system: jump off a cliff with a parachute and hope it works
The psy system: jump off a cliff with no parachute and hope pirate catches him (he says he can so that's good enough for you)

The clipse system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

[Ponies]

While people in the forums would be impressed by seeing so many satisfied Currin Trading investors, the reverse could also take place. All along I had carefully kept my investors insulated from the outside world. By inviting them all into a forum thread, I would risk exposing them to the negative attitude of the forum skeptics, who would dissect my business unmercifully, revealing it to them as a pyramid scheme. I wouldn't be able to predict how many would fail to re-invest their isk. And, of course, I would have to give someone the prize money of a billion isk for free.

But still, I had an army at my disposal. Supposing most current and past investors showed up, I could field several dozen positive-thinking posters in that thread, overwhelming the skeptics. But a good impression needed to be established at once. Even if I got all of the investors to reply, they might first be drowned out by the hundreds of forum posters who would be sure to latch onto my scheme and rip it to shreds--even in the context of a friendly, free lottery.

[OneEyed]

This stuff never gets old

[Micon]

There's also some buzz recently occurring with regard to the mining "bonds". Apparently only recently did some finally become aware that with these mh/s "bonds" that as long as difficulty goes up, the bond issuer never needs to buy any mining capacity whatsoever and could meet all dividend payments as agreed to simply by paying out from principal.   While not technically a "ponzi", there hasn't been much in the way of vetting to ensure the mining operator truly had control of the expected mining capacity.

Thought I'ld cc: some links here in case anyone might care to see how that all works as well:

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98517.0
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100303.0

So we can now add, in bulk, all mining bonds to the OP list of Ponzis.

Holy crap there is not a single investement that is not a Ponzi.

many BTC investment vehicles are scams on this board.  Yes, it is shocking how many.

I will investigate the Mining bonds as well.  I agree there is a good possibility of Ponzi in mining bonds, but as of now haven't investigated. 

[drakahn]

you say words like investigate, but never like... show up with any results

Seriously, if you have anything else other than 1) "you don't know therefore ponzi" or 2) "omg 7% therefore ponzi" it would be good if it wasn't buried under those two piles of crap

[memvola]

I will investigate the Mining bonds as well.  I agree there is a good possibility of Ponzi in mining bonds, but as of now haven't investigated. 

By "investigate" you mean what exactly?

[Clipse]

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

[foggyb]

Please add the US Dollar to the #1 spot, as it is by FAR the largest ponzi scheme on planet earth. The only reason it is dragging out so long is that the perps are epic criminals with vast resources, plus they force the entire planet to use the USD.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Micon latching onto sealswithclubs remoinds me of bruce wagner and mybitcoin.

Now hes claiming hes an "owner" of seals.

 

[Micon]

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

[Clipse]

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

[Shadow383]

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

[Bitcoin Oz]

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Perhaps a mod can split the topic off into its own thread ? Hit the "report to moderator" button.

[imsaguy]

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.

[drakahn]

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

No, its about experts making wild and odd accusations

[Shadow383]

now the real Q's

did Pirate pay everyone today?  Was Bitcoinmax and the other ponzi affiliates duped again into re-investing all?  did new whales come in this week?  

or is this this week it goes boom?

Back on topic (so to speak)

Yes, as expected he paid out interest this week.

Also I have updated my bet thread here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.msg1097294#msg1097294

Just saying, you should probably link to a transaction in the blockchain for that original 10k BTC deposit, or unlock the thread for a bit.

did Pirate pay everyone today?  

a couple i glanced at (vescudero, nckrazze) paid interest early.  if others did the same, then that's a tell.  maybe that was done with the intent to boost confidence as if they are paying early, definitely can't be in trouble!   or, maybe the affiliates that have a high reinvestment rate got paid out first because the reinvested funds were needed to then pay others which have higher redemptions?

I wasn't aware Victor Escudero had any pirate exposure? You're referring to his 1.5% deposits right?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.

Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?

[totaleclipseofthebank]

It's pretty hilarious watching the Pirate-folk having their little meltdown and pulling out random poker statistics that have nothing to do with anything.

It will be especially funny seeing which ones will disappear after Pirate defaults. Greed is one helluva drug!

[drakahn]

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.

Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?

Against what proof?
As it stands there is nothing to defend against but baseless claims that don't need any defending against, perhaps I missed some proof amongst the 'ponzi ponzi ponzi' chants, because I've seen none backing up your accusations, so then, with such a lack of proof (And indeed, victims) i think "people" have shown they are not scammers.

[imsaguy]

Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?

Not when the people that need to be convinced don't really want to be convinced. 

In addition, sometimes the best way to prove you aren't a scam is to keep doing business and paying everyone as agreed.