Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[drakahn]

Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.

Really? What is his name? Source?

Why do you need to know his name? I assume you aren't invested.
Apart from that its not for anyone else to give out anyones details

[1714905322]

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[1714905322]

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[1714905322]

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[Raoul Duke]

Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.

Really? What is his name? Source?

Late to the ponzi party, are we?

[gene]

Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.

Really? What is his name? Source?

Why do you need to know his name? I assume you aren't invested.
Apart from that its not for anyone else to give out anyones details

I'm not the one who brought up pirate's identity. But since Clipse did bring it up, it is interesting to the audience here.

Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available. Either you will or you won't, but the hesitation and defensive stance is telling.

[drakahn]

Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.

Really? What is his name? Source?

Why do you need to know his name? I assume you aren't invested.
Apart from that its not for anyone else to give out anyones details

I'm not the one who brought up pirate's identity. But since Clipse did bring it up, it is interesting to the audience here.

Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available.

by "we" clipse meant us, not you
by "ponzi party" psy meant you, not us

[Raoul Duke]

Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available.

Are you from this planet? The only person late is you, with all the times people posted his identity in these type of threads before.
Scream PONZI a little more.

[Shadow383]

Interesting turn of events. Even so, the core ponzi scam can probably continue for some time, along with the various leeching schemes.

Clawbacks can't happen unless operators and other participants are positively identified. However, if someone slips up, it is possible that a dedicated set of doxers could trace things back quite a ways. Most people do not have the combined skill and discipline to maintain perfect anonymity. With any luck, the trail will permit for some to be identified.

We know what pirate looks like and also his name, unless he gets plastic surgery and lives in the form of Michael Jackson its even more unlikely he would be able to just vanish.

Really? What is his name? Source?

Allegedly:
http://www.facebook.com/trendon.shavers?sk=wall
http://www.linkedin.com/in/businesscognition
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/McKinney/trendon-shavers/101281327.aspx
http://www.co.midland.tx.us/da/hotcheckwarrants/list/?lname=sz

[gene]

Midland... same as GW...

[drakahn]

well if you're going to edit out what i'm laughing at, i'm... still going to laugh at you, haha

[gene]

nice try on the post rollbacks 

[gene]

by "we" clipse meant us, not you
by "ponzi party" psy meant you, not us

 

As I said, your unimaginative response it predictably telling.

Late to the ponzi party, are we?

At least you're openly admitting it now.


Still would be interesting to see these advocates of transparency provide the information that they themselves assert is publicly available.

Are you from this planet? The only person late is you, with all the times people posted his identity in these type of threads before.
Scream PONZI a little more.

No need. Your contributions have not been helping your cause. I've caught you stealth-deleting a few posts already. Maybe your colleagues will continue to encourage you to post a bit less.

Really? What is his name? Source?

Allegedly:
http://www.facebook.com/trendon.shavers?sk=wall
http://www.linkedin.com/in/businesscognition
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/McKinney/trendon-shavers/101281327.aspx
http://www.co.midland.tx.us/da/hotcheckwarrants/list/?lname=sz

How charming. Passing bad checks in Texas... is this warrant still out on the alleged pirate?

[JoelKatz]

There's no legal framework for doing "claw-back" of bitcoins.

No special framework is needed. If there was a claw back, it would be based on the fair market value of the bitcoins fraudulently transferred as of the time they were transferred, likely with interest accumulating from that time. As far as the legal framework would be concerned, bitcoins would be treated like any other thing of value. Intangible items with a market value are routinely clawed back at fair market value. For example, stocks are clawed back.

The big question is whether the recipients could be identified and whether anyone is ever going to have enough information to even try to identify them.

[koin]

There's no legal framework for doing "claw-back" of bitcoins.

No special framework is needed. If there was a claw back, it would be based on the fair market value of the bitcoins fraudulently transferred as of the time they were transferred, likely with interest accumulating from that time.

so wait, this might just work.

accept 1 bitcoin "deposit" today with the price at $12.  the downlevel reinvests so it doesn't matter what the interest rate is, ... 5%, 7% whatever.

then this ends (collapse) four months from now.

so i'm busted as running a ponzi. because now my identity is known i face a clawback.  i owe the depositor $12 plus interest (let's say the best rate a bank offers for a cd is 3%).    so i have to refund $12.12 (the bitcoin which was worth $12 at the time i accepted it plus twelve cents of interest, based on the rate of 3% per year).

but the exchange rate is $15 by then. so I cash out 0.808 bitcoins (then worth $12.12) and keep 0.192 bitcoins for myself.

but if instead the exchange rate drops to $10 by then, i return the full 1.0 btc.  no harm, no foul.  no bitcoins were lost.

heads i win.  tails you lose.

[koin]

Oh shut up fascist. I have no problem with ponzi talks and whinnings, but don't drag the parasites that be into this, thanks.

their participation is required by law when securities fraud (which ponzis fall under) occurs.

here's a recent example where they went after a ponzi feeder fund "for their role in facilitating a massive ponzi scheme operated by another individual": http://investorswatchdog.com/blog/investorswatchblog/?p=9637

The big question is whether the recipients could be identified and whether anyone is ever going to have enough information to even try to identify them

i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

We tend to believe that people pretend to be someone else only in the movies. But it happens every day. A scam operator can afford to buy the temporary services of actors to play any role. If you’ve begun your search with a goal of confirming the legitimacy of the investment, the shills will convince you of it.

The trick to keeping safe on this dangerous investing landscape is changing what you look for in your investigation. If you look for legitimacy you’ll run into an endless line of shills. But, if you learn how to look for fraud, you’ll recognize it. After all, if fraud is what you want to avoid, why would you look for anything else?

http://investorswatchdog.com/blog/investorswatchblog/?p=9565

[gene]

heads i win.  tails you lose.

There is also the small matter of federal prison.

[Clipse]

i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc.

[gene]

Anybody got a street address for Pirate the Midland, Texas check-bouncer?

[Micon]

1)  For those that haven't seen it yet, most ponzi threads are now categorized as "Long-term offers" which obviously is not the correct category name, but at least there is a little corner for these scams to sit in now:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=88.0   I think a name like "1000%+ APR Investments" would correctly categorize them and is a huge warning bell to anyone with a sound understanding of economics.

2)  That being said, here is the locked BCST thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 still erroneously in "securities"   - I have seen many other scams in various other forums but it's good to see that at least a clean up has started and mods are taking action.

3)  The direct communication with Pirate is interesting.  If anyone wants to PM me conversations I would love to read them and will keep both your identity and the content confidential.  If anyone out there involved in this scam in any way wants to communicate anonymously or privately with me I welcome it.  Send anything you feel may be of help.

[Micon]

i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc.

I also believe there to be many shill accounts reporting interest as paid.  Of course there are many real marks too, the BTC has to come from somewhere.  a few real interest payments + a few shills = the appearance of community support

[imsaguy]

i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.

Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc.

Given the rate of whinging on the GPUMax thread about not getting _work_, I would imagine that there would be a hue and cry if people didn't get their payments.

or complaining about being on the waiting list too long..

[Maged]

On the contrary, when it comes to Ponzis, a lack of evidence of anything is evidence of a Ponzi. It's also extremely easy to disprove if it's not a ponzi. As it is, there is no evidence that a business side of BS&T even exists. If I'm wrong about this, let me know.

Well, there are quite a few respected members of this very forum, that know exactly about the BS&T business. You being a Moderator, did you even think about asking them privately before making your ponzi accusations?

Of course, both as a public call for information, and as private requests. I finally have a lead, so I'm going to see where that brings us.

Now it might well be a ponzi, but the last two months led me to think it's not. The "ponzi campaign" seemed to work quite well, the withdrawal must have been large, according to GLBSE PPT rates and forum talks, yet he has been able to meet his obligations.

That's a common misconception. The "ponzi campaign" did work well... for Pirate. Sure, a vocal minority withdrew a large chuck of money, but what you aren't seeing behind the scenes is that the "ponzi campaign" actually brought Pirate significantly more money. He was receiving close to 10% in deposits per week, even after you subtract the withdrawals. Of course he was able to meet those obligations, knowing that.

Hey, you Pirate supporters, could you point me to ONE case in history where someone has paid consistently several thousand percent REAL interest rate for an unlimited number of debtors over extended time where the nature of the business was not disclosed to investors that didn't turn out to be a scam.

The extended time you speak of is right at a year and its in a brand new/emerging technology.  Look at any brand new, rapidly growing company and their rates will be off the charts and of course if you extrapolate those rates to infinite they look ridiculous. That's part of the point that the 'pirate supporters' are trying to make.. a high interest rate isn't a clear indicator all by itself.

So, your argument boils down to "because Bitcoin". I'm afraid that you'll have to back that statement up then. What is special about Bitcoin that allows Pirate to provide such large returns at this scale?