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1161  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 11, 2021, 06:18:15 PM
[...]

But with Tesla accepting bitcoin I want to buy a Tesla, but if it's a battery technology I know that it makes sense to buy a new car. So the Tesla I'd like to buy is over $100k. I can certainly afford it. But it's such a huge leap. The first house I bought was nice, had 3 acres of land and only cost me $85k. I just can't imagine buying a car that's more expensive than what I'd pay for a house (don't get me started on the prices of houses right now...).

[...]

As someone once said here in WO, when you're buying a Tesla with Bitcoin, what's really happening is Tesla is doing the buying and you are doing the selling.

Eventually I'll need a car, and all I have is bitcoin.

So...the last time I needed to buy a car I was selling and the local guy I sell bitcoin to was doing the buying.

At least doing it directly I save the 3% fee.

Of course, if I had as many BTC as you, and only had BTC and not fiat, that's exactly what I would do too, and it would make perfect sense. I merely wanted to stress the fact that we should sell our precious coins only when we have to. Anything that can be bought with spare fiat, should be bought with spare fiat, until there is no more spare fiat to spend. Bitcoin should be the last asset to spend.
1162  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 11, 2021, 05:12:32 PM
As someone once said here in WO, when you're buying a Tesla with Bitcoin, what's really happening is Tesla is doing the buying and you are doing the selling.

Not sure if on WO someone else also said it before me

When you use Bitcoin to buy Tesla in reality it’s Elon Musk who’s buying Bitcoin with Tesla.

You were the one! Thanks for reminding me (us).
1163  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 11, 2021, 03:44:54 PM
[...]

But with Tesla accepting bitcoin I want to buy a Tesla, but if it's a battery technology I know that it makes sense to buy a new car. So the Tesla I'd like to buy is over $100k. I can certainly afford it. But it's such a huge leap. The first house I bought was nice, had 3 acres of land and only cost me $85k. I just can't imagine buying a car that's more expensive than what I'd pay for a house (don't get me started on the prices of houses right now...).

[...]

As someone once said here in WO, when you're buying a Tesla with Bitcoin, what's really happening is Tesla is doing the buying and you are doing the selling.
1164  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 11, 2021, 03:09:51 PM
Wasn't he referring to seasonal rains?

Isn’t it Bitcoin season?

Yes, since 2009 actually  Grin

Of course, overall bitcoin has done quite well since it went live in January 2009, yet who the hell really knew about it for some time... except for a few guys that were really in the nerdiest of nerdy circles in terms maybe having some potential technical knowledge.

And, still bitcoin did not really get any kind of attempts at tangible price discovery until around May 2010, the time of the pizzas transaction.. and maybe there have been some spreading of the news about bitcoin as the price was getting assigned to it and it was being found out about by more and more people.  I am pretty sure that I heard the word, "bitcoin" a few times before I looked into it, and maybe I just thought something superficial that it is a kind of invented money like Lindy Dollars or whatever.

I do believe that we should be attempting to consider some of the nuances of bitcoin's price movements and cycles which does seem to cause it to have seasons in which some folks could well be in a world of hurt if they are not able to figure out strategies to get through the cycles.. both financially and psychology, and surely hardly any of us were able to get into bitcoin in 2009 or even sometime soon thereafter be able to have some of the pleasures of experiencing the price appreciation of its whole life... We only know about bitcoin between 2009 and whatever time that we got in through the experiences of others - not that I am saying that you actually "have to" own bitcoin in order to benefit from its invention and they incentive systems that it has set up that will likely end up benefiting everyone, whether they own it or not... and sure the owners of bitcoin do seem to have gotten quite rewarded through the years and likely to continue to be rewarded as far as what seems to be likely in the future.

To level up, you need merits and activity, and to become Legendary you need 1000 merits and an activity of 775-1030 (chosen at random).

He had the merits, not the activity.

Gawd, i got it wrong (again). I'm not surprised, like most of you aren't too...  Roll Eyes

EDIT: Maybe BTC can buy me a reliable brain again in the future. But then i will be old, so i won't need it by then  Angry

Don't worry, the fact that you own BTC means that you belong to the top 0.1% of the smartest people on Earth. Your brain is fine.

I hate to quibble with a fellow bull - but seems to me that there is some level of smarts and luck in terms of finding out about bitcoin and then acting upon such knowledge.   When I found out about bitcoin in late 2013, I was so damned ready for it because it seemed to have been exactly the investment category that I was looking for and so maybe I am one of the rare ones in which the concept clicked almost immediately in terms of the proposition of bitcoin and my desire to get a stake in it, but I surely am not claiming to be any kind of genius in terms of the strategy that I established and if there might have been some better ways of going about my investment into bitcoin in terms of where I was at at the time that I found out about it.

And, yeah, I use the term "found out about it" loosely because I hardly even knew exactly what bitcoin was except for some descriptions of it and what it was trying to achieve, and so part of my initial goal was to start to get a stake in bitcoin but to also study the matter at the same time and to figure out if maybe I needed to readjust my strategies or my ideas about what it was that I was investing into.

There are so many people who neither had the luxury of being in the mental/financial place that I was when I got into bitcoin nor are there many people who have the luxury to spend a lot of time studying a matter...

Many of us heard about the August 2020 article regarding yuppies dismissing bitcoin (a r/bitcoin link on the topic, too), and yuppies are considered to be smart people, but the article is likely correct about some mental blocks that cause difficulties for them to take action in terms of either investing into bitcoin or researching into it more.  Most of them will likely come around sooner or later, and many of them are likely smarter than a lot of us here, just smart in different ways that end up causing them to be a bit of laggards in the likely largest transfer of wealth in our lifetimes, and perhaps the largest peaceful transfer of wealth in the history of man, perhaps?  perhaps?

I agree, luck has certainly played a role for many of us in our Bitcoin journey. But not just luck. I think that one needs to have a suitably capable brain to be able to get into Bitcoin and stay into it for the long run. The true early adopters were the "nerdiest of nerds", as you say, but they had brains too. At least those who kept their coins. Bitcoin was (and still is to some extent) a difficult thing to get into. You can't just go to a shop and buy it. You have to really want to own it, and, to some extent, you need to put some effort (physically and mentally) to get into it. This immediately pushes the lazy, weak, or dumb ones away from it.

On this coming Saturday (the 17th) I've arranged a meeting with a nocoiner cousin of mine, and we'll be meeting at my other cousin's house. So it will be me, my coiner cousin, and another nocoiner cousin. The purpose of the meeting is to initiate the nocoiner into Bitcoin, registering with an exchange, buying his first BTC (only BTC and no other type of coin, I will insist on this), transferring to a wallet, maybe a paper wallet, and also explain the underlying math & science behind Bitcoin. This takes effort, it's not an easy thing to do, even today. Just imagine those really early adopters. Setting up Linux boxes, installing the s/w, trying to understand the tech, and mining out of their CPUs/GPUs something that had no value, or very little value. It was not for everyone. You had to be nerdy, geeky, smartie, lucky, and open-minded, to want to do this. I applaud these guys.

As for me, I first heard about Bitcoin on the news on TV, can't remember when, probably back in 2010-11. Of course, news pieces are designed for dummies and did not really explain it properly. And it was quick too, barely 1 minute long. They just said "digital money", "being able to transact digitally over long distances". So what? Don't credit cards do that? What's so new about it? And the name "Bitcoin" didn't impress me for some reason. I actually hated the sound of that word. Yuck! "Who came up with that ugly name?", I said. And that was the end of it. I forgot about it. The next few times I heard about it was when Silk Road was shut down (2013), and MtGox collapsed (early 2014). Again on the news, and portrayed very negatively. And that was it again, I dismissed it, erased it from my brain and moved on.

I started seriously investigating about Bitcoin in late 2014. Here's an email I sent to a dear friend of mine (now a coiner), dated November 2014 (copy/pasted from my "Sent Mail" folder just now):

                   Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I forgot to send you those links about the topics we discussed on Sunday. Actually I can't remember all the things that I should send you links for. Here are the topics I do remember:

Ponzi Scheme (Wikipedia's article),
bitaddress.org (Bitcoin wallet generator),
offlineaddress.com (similar to the above),
Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System (Bitcoin's White Paper, by Satoshi Nakamoto).

Let me know if I've forgotten something. One thing is certain. This is a big thing that has the potential to change the world. We should investigate about Bitcoin as soon as possible and understand it as much as we can. Study it (esp. the last link), and we'll discuss about it again.
                   

The above is the earliest email record I have, where I'm seriously discussing about Bitcoin. Notice my first link: Ponzi Scheme. I was reluctant to accept Bitcoin at the time, because I had not studied it and did not really understand it. I remember reading the White Paper and getting goose bumps on my spine. It was like a revelation to me. I spent the entire week researching about it. I then called my friend on Skype and told him: "We've got to buy Bitcoin ASAP!"

I bought my first 0.5 BTC for about $100 in mid-2015, using a local Bitcoin ATM. 3 months later, I bought another 2 (or was it 3?) BTC for $1000 from the same Bitcoin ATM (price had risen since my first purchase). And that was my (admittedly, very late) start. Then came Andreas Antonopoulos, with his wonderful books and talks, that firmly cemented and gave rigor and structure to what I had already understood about Bitcoin. That was the "point of no return" for me. I was sold. I just knew that this was something big, something very big, and I was so excited to be part of it. And here we are, posting "come on, Bitcoin, do something" memes @ $60k...

So... Luck? Brains? Nerdiness? Craziness? All of the above? I don't know. But it sure has changed my life. And so far it's been the most exciting journey I've even experienced. And the best is yet to come!

Thank you, Satoshi, whoever and wherever you are.
1165  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 10, 2021, 11:14:22 AM
Play this tonight/tomorrow, while we fight and win the battle for $62k...

Two Steps From Hell - Victory
1166  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 10, 2021, 09:17:10 AM
Breaking ATH today will be so cool!

I'm going to visit my little niece & nephew again tonight, and their daddy is the cryptocurrency coiner cousin I posted about earlier! Sadly, he doesn't own BTC, but he's OK with his altcoins, and he's in (modest) profit too, so it's always great to chat with him, the vibes and atmosphere are so upbeat. Whenever we meet, I always recommend to him to move all his altcoins to BTC once he's satisfied with the profits. I hope one day he'll listen to me...
1167  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 10, 2021, 09:05:22 AM
To level up, you need merits and activity, and to become Legendary you need 1000 merits and an activity of 775-1030 (chosen at random).

He had the merits, not the activity.

Gawd, i got it wrong (again). I'm not surprised, like most of you aren't too...  Roll Eyes

EDIT: Maybe BTC can buy me a reliable brain again in the future. But then i will be old, so i won't need it by then  Angry

Don't worry, the fact that you own BTC means that you belong to the top 0.1% of the smartest people on Earth. Your brain is fine.
1168  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 10, 2021, 08:47:56 AM




Did you level up?
If so, congratulations!

Why did I need 1000 merits to level up? I don't understand the level system any more.

To level up, you need merits and activity, and to become Legendary you need 1000 merits and an activity of 775-1030 (chosen at random).

He had the merits, not the activity. His lucky number was 924 (or slightly less).
1169  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 10, 2021, 08:12:05 AM
There is a big sell wall at $61,200... Why?

OTOH, why not?
1170  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 10, 2021, 06:46:46 AM




Congrats, VB1001!

Merits we can help you with, but activity is all up to you...

Well deserved!
1171  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 10, 2021, 06:37:02 AM
A wonderful Saturday morning to all WOers.

Used a Starbucks capsule for my coffee today. Tastes nice. Nespresso is a smart invention (for the lazy ones like me)...

Nice, long, green candles! This is almost chart-pr0n. No, chart-pr0n will come after we breach $100k.

$61,222.22 today's top, $560 shy of the current $61,781.83 USD-ATH (Bitstamp).
50,700 € today's top, 300 € shy of the current 51,000 € Euro-ATH (Kraken).

Will they be breached this weekend? Or today, even?
1172  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 09, 2021, 09:16:43 PM
[...]

...don't buy a "portfolio" of alts instead of bitcoin. You will lose in a long run.

I can confirm that.

In the beginning of 2017, my cousin invested $5k in various cryptocurrencies. Currently he is in profit. His cryptocurrency portfolio is worth around $15k. Not bad. That's a 200% gain over the course of just over 4 years. No bank could ever offer that. Cryptocurrencies are so good, aren't they?

Here's the fun part: had my cousin invested his $5k solely in Bitcoin (as I suggested to him, but he didn't listen to me, because "it's too expensive"), he would now be the owner of 5 BTC = $290k. That's a whopping 5700% gain over the same period as above.

1173  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 09, 2021, 01:52:38 PM
HSBC forbid his customer from buying Microstrategy because of:

"newly changed policy on virtual currencies"

Badge of honour for HSBC:


https://twitter.com/1e9petrichor/status/1380322413284618241?s=21



FTFY.
1174  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 09, 2021, 10:22:13 AM

There's something pure and original about ABBA. They remind me of my carefree days of youth, when we never locked our homes and knew everyone in the neighbourhood.
1175  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 09, 2021, 09:14:07 AM
We all hate shitcoins. I do too.

But, maybe, just maybe, shitcoins are a blessing in disguise. They do seem to help in a few things:

-- Sort out the opportunists from the serious investors.
-- Sort out the thick in the head from the smart.
-- Stress-test (and confirm) Bitcoin's unprecedented robustness and fault tolerance.
-- Weed out cancer cells, such as Craig Wright, Calvin Ayre, Roger Ver, and Jihan Wu.
-- Suck wealth out of "get rich quick" traders, just like maggots eat rotten flesh.

I often get angry when I see posts shilling shitcoins. But I shouldn't. To all shitcoin shills, I say: "Bring it on! Give it all you've got! Attack Bitcoin as fiercely as you can! Let the strongest survive!" After all, that's how the universe works. From the wild animals of the jungle, to the highest level of refined civilization. Survival of the fittest. So, bring it on, and let the winner take all.
1176  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 08, 2021, 04:31:25 PM
All is fine.

I vote for Bitcoin as it currently functions on-chain. And I vote for 2nd-layer solutions for coffee purchases. We've all seen what's happened with BCH (a.k.a. bcash LOL) and BSV (a.k.a. Craig Wrong - Calvin Ayre pedo-island coin)...

I trust Bitcoin's future in the capable hands of the brilliant coders in the core development team, that slowly and extra-carefully add new elements in the code (SegWit being the most important of them so far), all under a strict consensus scheme. It's easy to criticize and suggest changes, big blocks, changes in PoW, some even want PoS FFS, but it's not at all obvious how those changes could affect the robustness and stability of the network. Just let 2nd-layer solutions handle coffee-sized purchases, and if they fail, get rid of them and develop new ones—the core network remains unaffected. It's a win-win. Don't mess with something that's proven to be the most successful network ever invented, with 100% uptime since 2009.

If anything, higher fees can serve as a spam deterrent: "Wanna transact on-chain? You'd better be serious about it." Just imagine having to pay $0.10 for every email you send. Email spam would be zero. I'm OK with that. Let 2nd-layer solutions gather your yearly espressos, cappuccinos and lattes with near-zero fees, and commit them all in a large $1000 on-chain transaction, with a $5 fee.

My 2 sats.

Edit: Updated my 2nd-layer solution example with more realistic numbers.
1177  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 08, 2021, 11:22:19 AM

I added "2x per year" trend lines to his chart...



It looks like his 200-weeks graph follows that "100% a year" trend quite nicely.

It's just too many people started talking about "200% a year" lately, even Saylor, which is annoying.

Saylor may be talking about instantaneous price value, not averages, or we don't know his averaging parameters, or he may be excluding certain events as outliers. It's all a matter of interpretation, averaging horizon, etc.

Some predictions talk about $400k/BTC by the end of 2021, so that's a 1200% gain for 2021 (assuming $30k/BTC at the start of 2021)... Wild, sure, but does King Daddy care?

Personally, I consider a "stable" price of $100k/BTC by the end of 2021 to be a realistic, healthy, and pretty damn good scenario. That's a 230% gain for 2021, which pretty much agrees with Saylor's Crystal BallTM. By "stable", I mean safely above $100k, say, $120k-$130k, with the usual volatility and ant-pump/dumpenings.

These are all SOMA guesses of course, as I believe SOMA guesses to be the best price predictors. No math or science involved—I leave that to our resident expert, the singing llama.

Edit: I calculate % gain as 100 x [V(t) - V(t-1)] / V(t-1), i.e., a 2x gain is a 100% gain.
1178  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 07, 2021, 12:47:42 PM
$56k and rising. <--- This is fine.
No singing llama posts. <--- Worried!
1179  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 07, 2021, 11:39:31 AM
If for some reason you decided to buy your first BTC this morning around 9AM forum time, that sucks.

Cool

Buying the top and hodling hard beyond a new ATH is part of the transformation to a Bitcoiner, isn't it?

If it doesn't kill you, it makes you poorer.

Now that's the birth of a new proverb  Cool

Quote
What doesn't kill you makes you poorer richer!

FTFY.

Why poorer? If anything, HoDLers came out so much richer after 2017...

Instead, mindrust is dead (read: nocoiner) and poor.
1180  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 07, 2021, 06:12:40 AM
^^^ "de-bozo"... That's a nice one!

The act of "de-bozoing" someone out of shitcoinery...  Grin
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