Bitcoin vs. World's Megacorps It is without a doubt the best Investment:  Total return (%) with Investment of $ 100 10 years ago: 1. Bitcoin: 9150088%
2. Amazon: 3,156%
3. Manzana: 2,345%
4. Visa: 1,597%
5. Microsoft: 899%
6. JP Morgan: 433%
7. Facebook: 420%
8. Berkshire Hathaway: 228%
9. Johnson & Johnson: 216%
10. Walmart: 171%
11. Alibaba: 108% A interesting article, Source: https://howmuch.net/articles/biggest-companies-vs-bitcoin-last-decade-performanceIf we take into account that these actions its important movements are every 10 to 8 years, Bitcoin in its first 10 years has been much better, which means that due to its nature it can be predicted that the next growth of Bitcoin will be much more high, which is still the best investment in the world with respect to the Stock Market. That's a ridiculous assertion. Bitcoin had absolutely no value when it launched, and it took nearly a year and a half to get some kind of idea of possible value (with the pizza transaction), and maybe a couple more years to get any kind of meaningful exchange trading with MTGOX and some of the limited number of exchanges to cause some kind of possibly meaningful liquidity. Probably more fair to start measuring BTC price or value from 2012, if not a bit later.. but hey.. we can assess that there was some liquidity and price finding abilities that were starting to occur in 2010 and 2011 - but still seems a bit too damned niche in those earliest of days to even be attempting to compare with start-up companies with some track recored or even mature companies/investments, like the ones listed. My thoughts exactly. It's like a 1/0 = Infinity kind of thing... |
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11 = 3
True. As are the following: 11 = 9 11 = 13 11 = 17 11 = 21 11 = 1001 11 = 1011 11 = 10001 The possibilities are endless... I only see 11.... wow nice stash 11 = 11 BTC11 BTC = 11 BTC, in any system, and that's what counts. Nice stash indeed! Those who own 11 BTC ( in base-10 or above in any base) will soon be set for life. |
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EPSTIEN... LOL!  |
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Thanks so far for your suggestions and opinions on the secure, inheritable seed storage topic.
It's a hell of effort for me to quote everybody's contribution i'm referring to here, so i round it up in this unilateral post, to avoid to totally mess it up.
I now consider storing one half of every seed in a place where i must have at least personal contact to a human to access the seedwords.
That means safe (yuck) or notary. Maybe both, half seedwords in the safe, passphrase at the notary for post mortem inheritance reasons or something like that.
JJG: I didn't tell the bank's employee anything about crypto, and i would i never do so. I just mentioned folded, single paper sheets and little items. I guess i will keep the ledger(s) at home for everyday use and to follow the two-level anti-thug advice of sacrificing a few % of my crypto (by mindrust, if i'm correct), which was also brilliant.
Somebody was curious about the country, it's Austria (the one without the kangaroos).
The finger is doing nice, at least no signs of infection and i can use it for typing again. This should end well, and i regard that as a warning by the universe, to follow safety standards with cutting tools. Even worse, i have a pair of kevlar gloves lying around. I should have used them. Once i rammed the base of my thumb into a sharp sheet metal edge, which got it cut half off, with a lot more blood, hospital, stitches and temporary nerve damage involved. Doctors did beautyful work, ten years later the scar is very light and thin.
Thanks for the love, practical tips and support so far #nohomo
I'm in read-only mode for the rest of the day or two, need to make a few wood/metal rings (jewellery) soon, which still needs quite some research and experimentation, and also craft another two of those bitcointalk anniversary ebony poker chips, using a different process.
There's better than that... Satoshi labs have BIP (and have implemented there own version) for a key sharing on the trezor: https://blog.trezor.io/shamir-backup-the-revolution-of-private-keys-backup-is-here-858687ed7fe7As soon as I saw that, I bought the model-T (already have the one, but is unsupported on that). Now I have mailed out shares to my most trusted friends and family, signed and sealed with an explanation letter so that if anything happened to me it can all be recovered. Made A LOT of shares and most of them are required for recovery. Originally I did split the seed words, but that does mean the number words required to be guessed is greatly reduced. I my case they had 2/3rds of the words, so just 1/3rd had to be guessed. With the Shamir there's no worries there. Just would be nice for others to implement the BIP! That's a nice feature. Unfortunately, I have the One, so I can't use it. Good to know it can be done with the T. Another thing I want to add to the discussion is that, when it comes to passphrase choice and seed storage/protection, we should apply the KISS principle. Keep things simple and don't overdo it. There was a time when I devised a complex method for generating ultra-strong passphrases, using a random number generator with its own numerical seed, that pointed to words in a book. It made me feel very secure, until there came a time when I had to unlock the data, at which point I realised I had totally forgotten the passphrase or how to generate it! Fortunately, that was long before I got into Bitcoin, it had to do with file encryption. Was a lesson for me, not to be too paranoid, while ensuring the passphrases are strong. |
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11 = 3
True. As are the following: 11 = 9 11 = 13 11 = 17 11 = 21 11 = 1001 11 = 1011 11 = 10001 The possibilities are endless... |
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By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.
Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.
Trying to get useful service from a notary will be coming next. I'll keep you posted.
No need for a safe. With Bitcoin, you are the bank! Just follow these simple steps: 1. Get a Trezor or Ledger. 2. Initialize it and write down the recovery seed. 3. Use an additional passphrase and keep it in your head (don't write it down). 4. Transfer your coins to that wallet (seed + passphrase). 5. Store the seed (but not the passphrase) in 3-4 separate places. 6. Done! Your coins are more secure than any vault in Zürich. That's the beauty of Bitcoin. Being non-physical has its perks! Now, try do this with gold or silver... That's how i planned to do it originally, since i already have the ledger, but i wanted to keep it for active future use, with a small amount on it. A second one wouldn't be bad, i guess, but the main reason for keeping cold storage in a secured place is the "thug-with-a-hammer case", for example. If a family member gets kidnapped, i will have to get to the safe, for example, and i could call for professional help by asking an employee, without the bad guys knowing. Just going through possible cases in my mind... Valid concerns. What you can do in the "thug-with-a-hammer case", is to store a very small amount of coins in the wallet that corresponds to the seed alone (without a passphrase), or use a second, decoy passphrase. So, if anyone comes with a $5 wrench and tries to torture you, try to resist as much as you can, and then reveal the decoy passphrase. Let him have whatever small amount you've put in there. Perhaps an extreme case of plausible deniability would be this example: You have 100 BTC. You store 1 BTC in the wallet with just the seed (no passphrase). You store 5 BTC in the wallet with the decoy passphrase. You store the remaining 94 BTC in the wallet with the main passphrase (which you NEVER reveal). Thug-with-a-hammer kidnaps you and starts torturing you. You play difficult, but soon enough you reveal the seed. He gets your 1 BTC and sets you free. That's the best-case scenario. But he may be smart... He suspects you have an additional passphrase, so he tortures you more. You resist, and at some point you "break" and reveal the decoy passphrase in crying tears... You beg him to leave you the 1 BTC and take the 5. He grabs everything (of course) and leaves. You still have 94 BTC. All of the above can be done with only one Trezor or Ledger, and there is no way for anyone to tell how many passphrases you're using in addition to the seed. In fact, you're already using an infinite number of passphrases (wallets), they're just empty. It's an immensely beautiful mathematical construct. The above example seems quite extreme, I know, but soon we'll be hearing about such kidnappings, and we must be prepared. Bitcoin, being non-physical, is a double-edged sword. That's why it's a stupid, immature thing to boast and advertise how much BTC you have. Because if you're stupid enough to advertise you have 100 BTC, you can be absolutely sure that the "thug-with-a-hammer" will torture you like hell until you give him all your coins... |
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By the way:
This week i was up for a visit to the bank. A bank of which i am not a customer.
As i don't really want to keep my seeds and (future) paper wallets at home, i asked for the price of a safe and if the contents are insured an all.
Mr. bankster asked me about the value and physical size of the entities i plan to put in there, so i said it would be foldable paper and a handful of items of the size of a matchbox. When he asked me for the value, which determines price and insurance, i said it is volatile in value and it might be anything between x1 (by current btc price) and x100 or even more in the next 30-50 years. So Mr. bankster said he has to contact his boss, who is the local manager of the safe, who in turn should call me on the same afternoon for speaking about details and possibilities.
I never heard of them again, no call from either of the two.
Well, this leaves me with the impression that safes seem to be a pain in the ass for banks (or this bank only, idk).
I found it quite unfair to base the price to rent a safe on the value of the content. Insurance, yes, that didn't surprise me that much. Seems like they out the amount which was estimated the value of the safe contents for. I can't just pay only for the safe and insurance covers the value of all that's in it, in case of physical desctruction, theft and loss.
Trying to get useful service from a notary will be coming next. I'll keep you posted.
No need for a safe. With Bitcoin, you are the bank! Just follow these simple steps: 1. Get a Trezor or Ledger. 2. Initialize it and write down the recovery seed. 3. Use an additional passphrase and keep it in your head (don't write it down). 4. Transfer your coins to that wallet (seed + passphrase). 5. Store the seed (but not the passphrase) in 3-4 separate places. 6. Done! Your coins are more secure than any vault in Zürich. That's the beauty of Bitcoin. Being non-physical has its perks! Now, try to do this with gold or silver... |
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-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
AlcoHoDL | 998490 @ bitcointalk.org | 07-Dec-2019
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
3GUPxhha7ajA82MNXUSh7eeMN7Bv7s7Fx9
JOdmDdRLFGswZ/Okr85BJJW0lxyD2m2N0/VnD9a2CCkfazAapeELm/boiX/2ZAJNE4fTgBOjhL70FWzR9Ufn88k=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE----- Please quote & verify. Note: Electrum Wallet may not be able to verify this. Please use Trezor Wallet, or a suitable online tool, such as Brainwallet. Thanks. |
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Hello, please someone quote this post and verify. Thank you!
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is Katashi (u=819241) from bitcointalk.org and I'm signing this wallet address as my own. Date today is 07.12.2019
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
Version: Electrum 3.3.8
Address: bc1q9tzxu3f3cum6fz8w63n6vx904xlplghqtwhcfw
H9j7rnTO3dVL8DaQ54pExexu7cLgtEs8vRQNM5FcZ0CHDULAuDxlDtUTER8vESaivoAf/jJKxMrXJ8AB2tVoXl0=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Quoted & verified.  |
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Judging from the amount of crap that's flooding WO by that Shit-Floats-To-The-Top loser, I'd say...
...a mega PAMP is imminent!
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 That's the kind of rise I want to see... Slow and steady. Go BTC, go! |
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Rick came home from a terrible day at the office yesterday, and we went out for drinks, nachos and queso (with seasoned ground beef. MMMMM.) They are doing a reorg at EvilCorp and he's very upset with the new manager that has been assigned to him. I believe it was the first time I've ever seen him come home as upset as he was, and frustrated due to work. He was planning on retiring n months from now, but doesn't think he can last that long due to EvilCorps latest management reshuffle, and needs to wait for at least one more vesting cycle to comfortably meet his tax obligations for FY2019.
He mused "I wish Bitcoin was at $20k so I could just retire off my own stash" while mostly venting, and me listening.
I really don't want to sound like a little first-world-problems princess-bitch like this, but I really do miss the days of me lamenting the boredom of being stuck in a $10k range for a bit.
Were we back at $10k right now, I would liquidate enough Bitcoin to rescue Rick from wage-slavery, understanding it's going against my own long-term best interests. I really wish I could break OpSec and share storytime, but... yeah... the idiots have practically gained control of Silicon Valley upper management now at EvilCorp. It's getting bad out there, folks.
Very sad to me how shit rises to the top, while hard working and passionate senior engineers get utterly abused and humiliated, by being forced to serve under managers that couldn't code "Hello World" in BASIC.
EvilCorp may or may not be a "Big Five" tech company, FWIW. I'll leave it up to you guys to image.
+1 WOsMerit. I can totally relate to your post. Being an engineer myself, I often have to face directors / leadership who are so ignorant on technical matters it just makes you want to quit. I can't reveal more for OpSec reasons, too. If I could, it would become more obvious why I'm not quitting. I say, fcuk them! BTC will sort them all out. |
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[...] otherwise on a 2000 EUR payout I would be credited 1950 EUR, you basically lost 2.5% of your salary within 60 minutes just because of Bitcoin network.
I shouldn't be replying to this, but couldn't resist... So, you're worried that you lost 2.5% of your salary in 60 minutes? Do you really think this matters? Check your balance in a couple of years and tell me then how much you've lost... I bought my first Bitcoin at $200 from a Bitcoin ATM in 2015. The moment it arrived in my wallet, the balance was $178 (11% loss). I should have felt so sad and cheated, right? 11% loss in 10 minutes! Wow! As of now, one Bitcoin is worth around $7200. That's 3500% (or 35x) gain in 4 years. Go find a bank or other investment that can beat that. Enough said. HoDL.What if you need your salary right away? Most people do. You can live in a bubble I am afraid. Most people when withdrawing a salary will need it to pay for their rent, the wife expenses, etc. You invest long term and you believe everyone do the same, the average Joe does the same, etc... But the average Joe spends his monthly salary, ask your neighbors. Imagine you received your salary in Bitcoin from 2015 until today, and you used it for your everyday life/family expenses. Do you think you would have gained or lost? Think about it. |
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[...] otherwise on a 2000 EUR payout I would be credited 1950 EUR, you basically lost 2.5% of your salary within 60 minutes just because of Bitcoin network.
I shouldn't be replying to this, but couldn't resist... So, you're worried that you lost 2.5% of your salary in 60 minutes? Do you really think this matters? Check your balance in a couple of years and tell me then how much you've lost... I bought my first Bitcoin at $200 from a Bitcoin ATM in 2015. The moment it arrived in my wallet, the balance was $178 (11% loss). I should have felt so sad and cheated, right? 11% loss in 10 minutes! Wow! As of now, one Bitcoin is worth around $7200. That's 3500% (or 35x) gain in 4 years. Go find a bank or other investment that can beat that. Enough said. HoDL. |
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We had the Jews and the Nazis, now it's 5G's turn... Fun future prediction: in 2-3 years from now, almost all of us, including those that condemn 5G tech as unsafe or "evil", will be using 5G on our phones... And we'll like it! I can't even begin to imagine the comments about 6G, given that it resembles "666, the Number of the Beast"!  |
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I like LFC actually, it's nothing personal. I will get 0.05 BTC from him "soon" and he seems to be a very good poster, bar the name calling.
What will happen "soon", is you paying LFC almost $1000 worth of BTC. That is, if you are a man of your word (I know LFC is). |
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By the time Mic finds his seed, the price will have dropped to zero it seems...
Lots of red today...
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I'm sure Mic is joking...
But...
Always keep several copies of your recovery seed in paper (or other non-digital) form, and not all in one physical place (e.g., if you have two houses, keep copies in both). Also, use a passphrase in addition to the seed, and never write it down, for plausible deniability and also in cases where someone finds your seed and recognizes what it is.
Another thing I want to stress is that TREZOR, Ledger, and any other h/w wallet that uses standard BIP protocols (almost all of them do), are all interchangeable. This means that you only need the seed (+ the passphrase, if you use one). There is absolutely no difference if you use a TREZOR, Ledger, or even a s/w wallet like Mycelium. Your coins are not "stored" inside these devices. They exist in a universe-sized, multidimensional mathematical construct, and you only have a map to find them. The map is you seed (+ the passphrase, if you use one). That's all you'll ever need to access them.
So, don't worry if you ever lose your TREZOR or Ledger. They are just containers of something you (should) already have.
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