What can you expect from a man who is 24 years old? He has zero experience dealing with customers.
I expect 6 - 18 year olds in my school to be responsible human beings that look after their peers. Why can't an adult do the same? Age has nothing to do with this it has everything to do with basic ethical and moral standards that he and many of these companies lack when dealing with their investors / customers. Rather than working with the community and sharing relevant information like where are the chips and when they are going to be delivered all we get are excuses. Excuses are not what the community wants. We want information. Without information it is hard to make an informed decision on such tight time sensitive projects. How hard is it to provide that information? I suspect a 7 or 8 year old can set up a timeline schedule and offer a reasonable amount of information about how long it will take to produce a project for presentation. I have seen kids that age do it many times over the past 20 years why is it so hard for Yifu or Josh to answer simple question and give honest answers? Clearly they will never get their act together as that sort of flaw is systemic in their nature and that is why avoiding them and their respective companies is a good idea. |
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Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty. Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision. Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.
There, I said it.
Not very clever when those same people "early adopters" stop buying Avalon products. Given the competition his "cleverness" will be a liability. The DIY community will definitely be going another direction after this debacle. Remember that DIY probably drove a good portion of the sales for these chips something that other chip makers should capitalize on in future. I suspect that like the limited and anemic development for BFL chip / board, (relative to the Klondike, BitBurner, and the Alten offering based on Avalon chips), Avalon has pretty much lost most future DIY board development. Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes as well as offering chips that are at starting at competitive costs. |
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All anyone wants to know are answers to the following two questions.
WHERE ARE THE CHIPS RIGHT NOW?
WHEN WILL THE BE DELIVERED?
Anything else is just chaff.
Given there is no response to anyone who as asked these questions via support tickers, phone calls, emails and other means of communication how can anyone reasonably expect Avalon to fulfil their terms and conditions for shipping? The majority of what has been ordered is already late and in breach of the terms of the contract. Given there is no information regarding any of the orders people should be demanding refunds full stop, regardless of the shipping of 30 developer chips that are also VERY LATE and in breach of the terms and conditions that were offered up in these forums. Clearly there is very good legal grounds to go after any company that fails to deliver on time. Sadly Avalon is no better than BFL and the community thankfully has other options moving forward these companies really have nothing substantial to offer the community given their lack of customer service and failure to deliver products according to consumer protection laws.
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Customers,
There seems to be some sort of problems with our email outbox on the site.
Can you please send me an email that has a signed message from your personally controlled address with the details of your orders.
I will update your order tickets personally and as soon as we verify the messages we will likely be able to get refunds started today. Again we are sorry for the delays. I will also send out emails manually to every customer today with this notice.
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Refund Processing is now taking place.
I have sent out an email to all customers about this and the procedure that you need to follow so that we can start the refund process for your order.
Given we stored all the bitcoin in a cold wallet in secure locations across a few locations this will take us a few days to reconstitute your BTC into digital form. We were going to hold it in cold storage that way until we had shipped our product as a backup incase of something catastrophic like Avalon failing to deliver quality chips that blew up 1 week after customer use or the units sinking to the bottom of the pacific during shipping. We were going to use our own funds for the chips, fab and shipping but given Avalon's abject failure we can't really risk our own or our customers bitcoin any further. We apologize for the delays in refunding your BTC and we are working hard to have this process ready for refunds by early next week. We hope to have new products up soon after we have completed all the refunds.
Hi, I never received email for order #61. Only communication was "Order ID: 61
Date Ordered: 25/07/2013
Your order has been updated to the following status:
Refund Processing"
Thanks! Sorry this had to happen. Looking forward to next device. Please send me an email directly to darin.bicknell@gmail.com with a signed message from an address you control. I will verify and add that information to your ticket on the site. We are likely to get out refunds today and tomorrow given we have the QR codes now and can convert funds quickly to digital form. |
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Solution.
Do not buy Avalon products in future.
Demand whereabouts of your 10K lots of chips.
Demand refunds for breach of delivery.
Compile evidence and start legal proceedings by putting Avalon on notice for breach of the terms and conditions for delivery.
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Big Picture Mining Cooperative Group Buy
July 28th, 2013. Failure to respond to our group leaders inquiries regarding the development chips being 1 week late as well as asked for information on our main chip order.
August 5th, 2013. Failure to respond to Support Ticket regarding our refund request given breach of contract on developer chips being 4 weeks late.
August 11th, 2013. Failure to respond to Support Ticket update.
August 12th, 2013. Failure to respond to Support Ticket update.
August 13th, 2013. Developer chips arrive 3 weeks late. We have contacted Avalon for a return address as we are sending them back. Still no response for 3 weeks since our first request for information.
We have yet to receive any response to our requests for information on the whereabouts of our development chips as well as any clarification on whether or not our main chips will be arriving 5 to 6 weeks late like other earlier group buys. We require a response to support ticket as soon as possible and we have been waiting nearly 4 weeks now with no response to our original questions regarding the developer chips.
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Compiling evidence from all sources to post here on Avalon's failure to ship the chips.
Feel free to email me links etc of evidence that supports claims of breach of contract to ship both the developer chips, main lots of chips as well as failure to respond to emails and other means asking for clarification. I will redact names and orders numbers in order to protect you from Avalon reprisals but do keep original evidence backed up so that when needed it can be used for legal actions.
If you have any information about BitSyncom, full personal details, addresses (for legal communication), telephone numbers and e-mail addresses, Links to their personal media pages, personal future appointments at events (dates and locations), any info which will help to make contact, please post it on this thread.
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Josh
Two WeeksTM
Yifu
CustomsTM I'm aliveTM
Edit. |
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Refund Processing is now taking place.
I have sent out an email to all customers about this and the procedure that you need to follow so that we can start the refund process for your order.
Given we stored all the bitcoin in a cold wallet in secure locations across a few locations this will take us a few days to reconstitute your BTC into digital form. We were going to hold it in cold storage that way until we had shipped our product as a backup incase of something catastrophic like Avalon failing to deliver quality chips that blew up 1 week after customer use or the units sinking to the bottom of the pacific during shipping. We were going to use our own funds for the chips, fab and shipping but given Avalon's abject failure we can't really risk our own or our customers bitcoin any further. We apologize for the delays in refunding your BTC and we are working hard to have this process ready for refunds by early next week. We hope to have new products up soon after we have completed all the refunds.
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They've already damaged the mining community and a number of promising business start-ups. I don't care what their "gen-2" chips do, I will never order anything again that depends on Avalon in some fashion. They've been added to my personal scammer-do-not-buy-from-ever again list along with BFL.
You said it brother... Let see how far BFL or Avalon get when people simply stop buying their late to market, overpriced and underperforming products. We are now able to pick and choose from other offerings that is a great thing and given the leaps ahead of BFL and Avalon the next generation producers are going it seems Avalon and BFL are pretty much losing out anyhow to much more powerful and efficient offerings. |
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Why didn't Bitsyncom get one?
One word: China He is an American... just have them add his name right? One email all that is required. |
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We don't need to lose 100% or 50%. They failed to deliver on time as promised. They need to refund everyone at this point to be brutally honest I highly doubt anyone is going to see chips on Friday this week. I doubt highly they will get them next week either. At this point they have failed to deliver. They need to simply refund anyone that wants a refund at this point and they should be boycotted till they do.
Boycotting will do nothing, they will still sell to the next fool as greed blinds, they need to be investigated for why they have been caught out being dishonest on several occasions. Pre-mining, splitting up, receipt of goods end of June, purposeful delays, selling of stock to other parties, and other shady dealings. There has been no reason at any point to deceive anyone on this forum. Real delays are understandable, but when you lie and then people connected to you post photographic proof confirming deceit, and when they are too stupid to clean their pre-mined machines of dust and of the preconfigured pool info, then something has to be done as this is not what you agreed to in any no bullshit terms and it's theft, be it of currency or of value of the return of your items promised by a specific date and sold to you as an investment. The law is very clear to you about this. Pursuing this won't harm Bitcoin, it will clean it up. Turning a blind eye is what allowed Lehman's to abscond as long as it did and cause the largest financial crash in history! Doing nothing is no solution and accepting that nothing can be changed is really not how I see it going down this time. BFL and Avalon have lost a lot of future business already and with enough of a push we could help them go out of business. Don't kid yourself there is leverage here we just need to use the right fulcrum. The times are changed there are more than two players in the marketplace one can easily avoid BFL and Avalon this coming generation of chips. You would be surprised what can be accomplished given the right organization. |
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May i suggest that you link to your new project in your footer? It's always a hassle finding these interesting projects and my watchlist doesnt seem to update all the time.
Footer is for BOYCOTTS to Avalon. As soon as we have a product available and cleared our refunds we will start advertising the new ones. Awesome, it is good to see the team is moving forward. Current vendors are still selling for profit instead of any reasonable ROI, good luck to getting your next product out of the gate before someone else can undercut you.  Thanks guys. We hope we can simply put out some products people can reasonably use without being dead weight. There are exciting times ahead with some pretty amazing boards and chips. I can't wait to see them personally regardless if we produce some or not. |
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We don't need to lose 100% or 50%. They failed to deliver on time as promised. They need to refund everyone at this point to be brutally honest I highly doubt anyone is going to see chips on Friday this week. I doubt highly they will get them next week either. At this point they have failed to deliver. They need to simply refund anyone that wants a refund at this point and they should be boycotted till they do.
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Since i was mentioned a couple of times... our groupbuy is parted regarding refund. Half would take one, the other not.
Was there are poll? Haven't seen one. BTW, your group buys 5 and 6 are still under 10 weeks old, so they are not breach of contract. Yet. Ya they are in breach. Where are the developer chips promised in 4 weeks? Where are our chips we ordered right now? When can we reasonably expect all chips ordered to be shipped realistically given the current delays? Do you really think those in June and July orders should have any confidence that Yifu will ship on time given the present state of shipping being 5+ weeks behind? Please no one should have to wait for information on their chip orders. WHERE ARE OUR CHIPS RIGHT NOW? That has to be answered. If it isn't then we all want refunds I bet. Who believes that there are chips in customs? Which customs? Which country? Seriously the lack of information provided to the group buy leaders is appalling and given that we should not give Avalon the benefit of the doubt. |
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Groupbuyers aren't actually customers. Only the groupbuy leaders are, so only they can actually take legal action and demand an audience.
However, we can all still continue to spread our story and warn the bitocin community not to do business with them anymore.
(And I obviously mean, beyond these forums... other forums, news articles, blogs, word of mouth.. any means at your disposal)
And we can still also ask authorities to investigate their recent activities
You could always leak to the Wall Street Journal that there is a kid called Yifu galavanting around Europe with an ex-Lehman's bankster and $20 million of other people's money, directly manipulating the supply of a now legitimate US recognised currency and dishonestly abusing people's funds for hardware to the point it's worthless. I'm sure there's at least one reporter that would appreciate the chance to prove her investigative journalism ability exists and would jump at the chance of being able to set the record straight on a conniving bankster... There's Harriet Agnew and Robin Sidel at the The Wall Street Journal. Harriet Agnew - Harriet is actually based at eFinacial News - London - harriet.agnew@dowjones.comThis is why the e financial news article was similar but had some more details than the Wall Street Journal Article. No doubt his was very embarrassing for her and she needs the opprtunity to undo the damage. Robin.sidel@wsj.com I believe he was the editor or WSJ staff reporter covering this. If all else fails Teri Buhl (yes that IS actually her name!) is excellent and a friend of Max Keiser, she has already tried to piece this mess together, with some accuracy and some confusion; http://www.teribuhl.com/2013/08/06/the-mess-the-wsj-made-famed-trader-joe-lewis-not-investing-in-bitcoins/Make sure you have evidence in a presentable format for them to help them write a worthwhile article this time!! Giving reports about the facts is a pretty good idea and I think that we can definitely use that as part of our arsenal to get Yifu and Avalon to answer our demands immediately. I think sending that reporter that information right now is a good idea and not to wait for things to shake out days or weeks from now. The longer we wait the less likely Avalon will feel they need to answer our questions and respond to our refund tickets. We can't let people run roughshod over the community and we need to take affirmative action against anyone like this. If we do this successfully we will force companies to really take notice we won't be funding those that basically fail to deliver a product on time as promised and then ignore us when we rightfully demand information. That is the whole problem here the lack of proper information. Any company wishing to do business here in future better damn well be up front and provide relevant information. |
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Since i was mentioned a couple of times... our groupbuy is parted regarding refund. Half would take one, the other not. This might change with time. At the moment the chips still would ROI and a compensation should be given but if the chips are too delayed and he dont want to refund we have to sue him of course.
Im not happy with the situation naturally too. I mean its near that we lost 50% of the income we would have gotten. And thats not funny at all.
Ya SebJu it is a tough situation with so many different ways it could go. I think we need to all strategize this and have a skype meeting or something so that some of us who can will push for refunds while other buy leaders can push for compensation but we can all agree Avalon will not be getting any more BTC from us collectively. Let the boycott start right now. |
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