Redacted the term "criminal". http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-ksd-2_03-cv-02287/pdf/USCOURTS-ksd-2_03-cv-02287-4.pdfEither way his threat to inform my boss (me) that I was a danger to children was a douchebag move and so was LYING about me and the Big Picture Mining Cooperative not refunding people for the K1 Nanos we were going to be build and cancelled given Avalon didn't ship the chips. REFUNDED everyone in short time and we did that proactively. Those facts alone should give you pause. The facts about the shipping have given you pause. The facts about the delays on productions and shipping based on Inaba's promises must give you pause. The allegations about back door shipping and mining of BFL rigs should give you pause. The manner and tone of Inaba in the forums to his customers should give you pause. The failure to refund and then to defend policies, like Inaba has and counter to FTC regulations, should also give you pause. Add all that up and I suspect you would also come to the same conclusion. The guy is a scumbag. |
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RESCHEDULED MEETING
Next Meeting set by Wasp & Hive lead designer for Sunday 20th OCTOBER 10:30 AM (Mountain Time Zone UTC-07:00)
Location: Zoho Chat "2nd Membership Meeting"
Agenda:
1. Update on A1 Wasp & Hive from Lead Designer.
2. Update on Avalon Gen1 Wasp proof of concept.
3. Overview of the opt in for the Wasp & Hive project deadline.
4. Coop membership fees.
5. New business.
6. Set time for a mid-week special Cooperative formation meeting.
7. Set time for next Wasp & Hive update meeting.
Note: If you are new to the Zoho Project pages please update your profile picture and post your profile to files section as soon as possible. If you are interested in getting involved with the project to help with design hardware or software as well as other things like website design then drop me an email and I will add you to the zoho project page. In the near future we will be closing the project page to members who have paid their 1 BTC membership fee but for now we are still open to all while we work out the details.
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I love the name of this project. Just sent a pm to Bicknellski. I'm in, I don't how I can help but I'll help in any way I can.
I had no internet all yesterday with a faulty cable. Got your pm and pm'd you back with details. |
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Sure the theft conviction is related. I guess by context it was bfl related? Can you link me to the court documents or something?
Thanks
How about you do the leg work, there are plenty of pissed off customers posting all the evidence you need right here in the forums and one opinion doesn't matter whether it is your simple statement he ran an ok pool or my comments he lied in the trust rating about me and Big Picture Mining Cooperative and his attempt to threaten me saying he was going to report me as a danger to children to my employers a pure scumbag move. He definitely has little ethical or moral base given those 2 examples of his actions in this forum you don't need more evidence do you? Let us not play semantics with regards to the BFL = Josh comment just be honest about his behaviour. Guys a full on douche bag. He lies and has a been brought before a court for stealing cable criminal record. You and I on the other hand I would safely say have integrity have never been convicted of any criminal offense in a court of law and would be respected as ethical entities in this forum. Josh / Inaba is not. |
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So, let me get this straight....
in return for bare chips, delivered the same time as the first fully operational hardware boxes, we are to pay 0.85BTC per chip (25GH). At $150/BTC, that's $127.50 per 25 GH, or $5.1/GH. No guarantee that all 32 engines are working on every chip purchased, at least so far as I can see. Mining dashboard says that difficulty would have to stay below an increase of 80% per month to reach 0-ROI, some time in APRIL, so the chip costs eat up the first 90 days income, even if power costs are ZERO.
At these prices, I think this is a very expensive hobby.
Kinda hard to see how anyone would make a successful business out of it, unless chip prices were dropped into the $3-4/GH range, and even then a 2 week slip in delivery destroys all the expected profit for the life of the product, and then some.
Ah, well - I've had more expensive hobbies, I suppose.
All excellent points, but in some respects this buy from Zefir allows us to get a smaller number of chips not 500 as Bitmine offers up. I think at this point Zefir's the only one trying to keep the DIY stream going and that we should be thankful for. Even if it is expensive at this point being able to develop and bring to the community something that is DIY is I think still an important aspect for Bitcoin and Altcoins. There will be a future point where the difficulty will level out and project experiences now could be very important for groups of DIYers later as long as the chips are actually shipped and specs are provided. We all learned a horrible lesson with Avalon... and we are now learning about the difficulty wall vs. the cost of production. Break even might be the only thing one can shoot for with these units but as DIYers that might be enough. Also pretty keen to have you working with us in the Wasp project DickMS... I think this DIY hobby will be a lot of fun and terrifying as well. |
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question for Black Arrow:
How much guarantee can you give that your devices will function with P2Pool out of the box? Are you collaborating with the mining software community (ckolivas, LukeJr, Kano etc) to ensure the driver behaviour is good for P2Pool with this initial batch of devices?
We are cooperating with cgminer team. Our devices will work with stratum protocol and will run a custom version of cgminer. +1 Brillant. Can't wait. |
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Searing, when I checked last week, BFL no longer accepted Paypal for the 65nm devices. Around 2-3 weeks ago, Cointerra also stated that they stopped accepting Paypal because Paypal no longer wanted to accept payments for pre-order miners. If KnC still accepts Paypal, that's because they have already demonstrated on-time (or almost-on-time) delivery, and also provide refunds. I think KnC was also forced to accept cancellations after someone started complaining about them in another thread (and also Cointerra, in another thread). Only BFL is too thick-skinned to allow refunds. I do hope you get your Monarch, even if BFL uses Cointerra's or someone else's chips.
More than being "thick-skinned" it is criminal or at the very least a scumbag move and no one should BUY anything from them in the future. |
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Sixteen huh? You sound really sure about that, too bad you're wrong.
There's 16 in just the one assembly room, another 12 in the 2nd room, and 8 each in the 3rd and 4th rooms. Not to mention the Jalapeno's are outsourced, so there's even more assemblers there.
16 + 12 + 8 + 8 = Ineptitude. The correction you make definitely points to the abject failure of this company to deliver anything on time and to specification. It also highlights the fact that Josh and BFL lie continuously about ship dates. Even with the 44 people you have counted they can't ship the backlog in a reasonable amount of time. People need to ask for refunds REFUSE their shipments at their doors and send them back and then sue BFL for their money / BTC back. Also this forum needs to stop taking advertizing money from BFL as they are clearly lying in their ads, on their website with regards to their products shipping dates. |
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Where does this stand right now? Do you still expect a full refund?
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Who cares? We already know they didn't tape out. Basically they have NO CHIP on the drawing board at all. It is suicidal to buy anything currently let alone buying from BFL. |
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When I refer to his nick, I mean the human being whose legal name is Josh Zerlan and who is Chief Operating Officer of BFL, by which I mean the entity incorporated in Wyoming and doing business in Kansas. Do I really have to be this excruciatingly precise not to be deliberately misunderstood?
But you saying bfl is acting through him is just silly. Why not pick on the mail guy? What other than call people a name did he do? Are you being serious or am I being trolled? "Chief Operating Officer" is not the title of an employee. It is a corporate OFFICER, hence the word OFFICER in the name. Do you think that maybe a Chief OPERATING Officer has something to do, maybe, with OPERATING the company? I mean fucking seriously. Get real. I'll also revise my post. It wouldn't be simple respondeat superior liability that applies to any action of an employee on the job. Josh actually speaks as a corporate officer. That is, yes, he IS speaking for BFL when in his official capacity, just as the CEO or any other corporate officer would. Like respondeat superior, NOT a difficult concept to understand unless you're going out of your way not to understand it, for whatever incomprehensible reason. So an officer called you a name? Other than that, why is he scum? I feel the hate, just don't understand why. Pfft right. Guy lies on trust ratings and threatens people with false accusations to get them fired. Guys a scumbag full stop and that includes his actions on behalf of BFL here in these forums. Not enough. At this point you are being purposefully obtuse? Maybe you need to make full disclosure on your dealings with Inaba. There are plenty more examples available we will simply leave that up to you to ignore but don't expect everyone else here to simply nod in agreement that he is reputable. He isn't. He has lied in his capacity as an officer in the company he represents both as JOSH and INABA for BFL. He has been brought to court and sentenced for theft not something we should take into consideration when determining the ethical make up of this individual? Finally he has refused to offer refunds to paying customers based on FTC regulations in so far that members of this community have had to call their banks, credit card companies and paypal to get force refunds. At what point are you going to admit the guy is a douchebag as well as criminal is the evidence not sufficient? I suspect you are being purposefully obtuse and one wonders why you would do that? Check out how Inaba / Josh described why $300 for EXPEDITED shipping was necessary... then tell me he isn't a scum bag for cheating people on shipping. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=313218.0ubi "BFL charges about $300 for shipping & actual cost is $53.95"
Thought the community might want to know if it's not out there already.
I had ordered a 60 GH/s unit way back at the beginning of the year. There was an initial shipping charge (international). About 8 months in to the wait, BFL offered an "upgraded" expedited shipping option for about an extra $200. Of course I jumped at the opportunity to get my miner sooner in the face of increasing difficulty.
Disappointed when the box arrived and I found that it was the Priority Mail International® Large Flat Rate Box by USPS - totalling $53.95. I get there can be some handling fee included perhaps, but really seemed like gauging to me.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193064.msg2029599#msg2029599
Inaba
You know what? I did not set up the original shipping and I don't know anything about the original shipping. If you didn't pay for overnight shipping (which you didn't) then you aren't getting overnight shipping. If you paid for shipping prior to February, you paid for standard shipping and that's what you're getting, whatever name you want to call it. Chances are, if you paid for shipping after February, you also paid for standard shipping. There is no one that paid "extra" for expedited shipping prior to that.
If you want to upgrade your shipping, upgrade your shipping. If you don't, then don't, it's as simple as that. You can call the shipping anything you want, it doesn't matter to me.
Guy is a scumbag... and a liar. |
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Thought the community might want to know if it's not out there already.
I had ordered a 60 GH/s unit way back at the beginning of the year. There was an initial shipping charge (international). About 8 months in to the wait, BFL offered an "upgraded" expedited shipping option for about an extra $200. Of course I jumped at the opportunity to get my miner sooner in the face of increasing difficulty.
Disappointed when the box arrived and I found that it was the Priority Mail International® Large Flat Rate Box by USPS - totalling $53.95. I get there can be some handling fee included perhaps, but really seemed like gauging to me.
Scumbags. |
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Holidays are not an unknown and should be calculated into any released schedule.  We all knew about the holidays. That was a known issue and it was calculated. What may not have been calculated is slower production time than was promised, logistics being longer than it was promised etc... hope there are no customs issues. Something typically a pain the arse in Indonesia but I doubt that it will be an issue for NZ. |
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Meh...
more concerned with getting some chips and making our own miner. As long as the performance numbers match and the chip specs are released then not sure I care what they think the box will look like. If they dealt with the "plagiarism" then fine.
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Also, I have never seen him behave like a scumbag, if I did saw something like that, I would have said something else.
You are certainly not looking hard enough. Just check my trust rating to see the type of thing he is willing to do to discredit honest people. Basically he is a lying scum bag and further proof of that are the attempts in threads to threaten people's jobs by misrepresenting them to their employers. He sent a clearly unveiled threat he would inform my "boss" that I was a danger to children. I welcomed him to email me his concerns as I am my own boss with 18+ years in education with nothing but GLOWING recommendations from parents, peers and students but I guess you would say you have never seen him behave like a scumbag. So you might want to check into his actions a bit more and as far as I can tell, he is pretty much built to lie, cheat and everyone already knows he has already been sentenced for stealing so if that ain't a one way ticket to scumbagville I don't know what is. All one has to do is read to find out what kind of person he really is. |
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What a bunch of scumbags. Plain and simple.
True, but people keep giving them money and refuse to sue them, so it's their fault too: they fuel them. If only companies and this very forum followed some sort of guidelines or code of ethics right? http://www.bbb.org/us/bbb-code-of-advertising/1. The primary responsibility for truthful and non-deceptive advertising rests with the advertiser.
Advertisers should be prepared to substantiate any claims or offers made before publication or
broadcast and, upon request, present such substantiation promptly to the advertising medium
or the Better Business Bureau.
2. Advertisements which are untrue, misleading, deceptive, fraudulent, falsely disparaging of competitors,
or insincere offers to sell, shall not be used.
3. An advertisement as a whole may be misleading although every sentence separately considered is literally
true. Misrepresentation may result not only from direct statements but by omitting or obscuring a material fact.
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that's why they use other people's money
If they didn't you wouldn't get any miners and from this point in I doubt highly they will be able to get money, from anywhere, to chase mining hardware that can't be sold. If you are only centered on mining hardware you are dead in the water. There is plenty of coin to be had in other 'hardware' and services that bootstrap the bitcoin economy. But please don't tell BFL that or they will be building "Trezor's" at 50% less in twice the time and kill off that market as well. |
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Lesson learned on my end  On the positive side of things, I did file a claim with my credit card about 2 months ago for another order with BFL for about $1300 and I got that money back. So at least I got one refunded. PTL! THey still havent refunded my 'upgrade fee' for my cancelled 60gh single order. THey confirmed they had it and offered a 'credit' towards another order, but it never appeared on my account. I asked for a refund in btc or bank xfer and surprise surprise have gone silent. I have referred the matter to the fraud deptment of my bank, so we will see where that takes us. What a bunch of scumbags. Plain and simple. |
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add another to the list of refunds! just got this today! created the paypal refund request on Oct 4, 2013, and got the refund Oct 16, 2013. will be sending a tip to OP. to those who want a refund through paypal this is how i got mine. 1. enter a dispute online 2. after it gets rejected for the "out of 45 day" time period 3. log into your paypal acct and go to resolution center and write down your case (change the view to all cases) 4. click contact us at the bottom of page 5. click call us on the right side of the page (should give you a phone number (probably 888-221-1161) with a one-time code 6. call it and enter your code when it asks you 7. say case resolution 8. say no (to ebay purchase) 9. say existing 10. say yes and enter the dispute/claim ID. 11. when they give you the status of the claim say agent. 12. when the agent comes on the line tell him the deal with BFL (fraud, pre-orders, wont let you cancel pre-order, wont refund, cant give you a date when your item will ship, etc). tell them to look at this company's history of complaints and refunds from paypal. ask them to process a refund. they issued me a new case ID for this. 13. wait the 10 days and when BFL doesnt respond to them (cause they wont) call paypal back and go through the same deal as above and get an agent on the line. 14. they will review and close the case and refund you. ************************************************************************************************* We have completed our investigation for the following claim: Transaction Details ------------------------------ Seller's Name: BF Labs Inc. Seller's Email: office@butterflylabs.com Seller's Transaction ID: 3GGxxxxxxxxxxx933 Transaction Date: Mar 4, 2013 Transaction Amount: -$683.00 USD Invoice ID: 100019393 Your Transaction ID: 3XAxxxxxxxxxxx32A Case Number: PP-002-xxx-xxx-xx1 Buyer's Transaction ID: 3XAxxxxxxxxxxx32A ------------------------------ We have decided this case in your favor and you will receive a full refund in your PayPal account within the next 3-5 days. ************************************************************************************************* And the refunds keep coming... |
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Lesson learned on my end On the positive side of things, I did file a claim with my credit card about 2 months ago for another order with BFL for about $1300 and I got that money back. So at least I got one refunded. PTL! |
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