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1. Bets not paid.
2. Lied about shipping dates to boost sales.
3. Lied about product readiness to boost sales.
4. No refund policies counter to FTC regulations.
5. Tax evasion accusations.
6. FCC testing was lied about.
7. Over promised on specifications for units to boost sales and then misrepresented the facts in the forums.
8. Countless claims of false advertizing laid out in numerous threads.
9. Accusations of backdoor shipments not according to shipping timelines stipulated to customers.
10. Accusations of mining with units that should be slated for customers.
11. Accusations of using pre-order funds for development against their claims never to do that.
12. Josh Zerlan has lied on numerous occasions on this forum, BFL forum about people, BFL products as well as their competition.
There are more I guess.
Feel free to read all the accusations yourself many are here in the section of the forum.
As for evidence... that is stipulated in the accusations.
BFL = Shady.
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So...
Anyone seen movement on these fines? What is the process involved for a fine like this take actually be levied?
BFL = Shady. Say it with me now.... BFL = Shady.
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Enough with the BFL threads.. We get it. They dont ship in time and dont do refunds...
It will be enough when they are Chapter 11 or behind bars. BFL = Shady. |
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I upgraded my July 2012 Jala order to a Single. I specifically asked if this would affect my place in line or date of delivery and BFL told me in no uncertain terms that it wouldn't. Then they went right ahead and sent out orders to people who were months behind me in line. They lied to me and they robbed me. I will be pursuing this matter with the FTC and the Kansas and New York DA's. BFL is running an investment lottery and a pyramid scheme, it's pretty clear now.
Scary they can continue to do business given that they seem to be a very easy target for an AG looking to win points. They are living on borrowed time. BFL = Shady. |
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Did they pay taxes and has anyone reported them?
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Still stuck on 3 refunds to go.
Although 2 more orders have responded to our emails so we are getting closer to resolving this issue. Will be relieved to get this done we hate this is dragging on and on. If you paid for your K1 Nano and haven't received an email or refund yet please PM or email at your earliest convenience. We have your BTC and want to refund you.
The following need order numbers ending in are still pending refunds:
xxx123 Contacted via email waiting for signed message to be returned.
xxx115 Not responded to emails
xxxx69 Contacted via email waiting for signed message to be returned.
We are getting closer to reveal a new deal we have for new miners and hosting so the faster we clear the happier we will be. We are also moving towards full cooperative status in the coming weeks. A new website is in the works for us as well.
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Spread the word...
As you are doing. Help out the people stuck in this whirlpool just as good.
BFL = Shady.
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Avalon chip refunds doesn't help all refund the pcb's etc that go into to be ready for the chips so the chips actually have value.. you cant hash with just a chip
they would have to give double to make everyone whole but we know we might not even get anything
Unfortunately it does more than not help... IT SCREWS the diy manufacturing people royally. At this point I am still hopeful that Yifu gets the chips in everyone's hands but our group is not waiting for that and have started down legal road for a resolution given we have not been given any information or responses to our questions since July 28th, 2013 when developer chips we were supposed to have received and used at our fabrication for testing the line didn't show up. 3 weeks late is not cool and we pulled the plug. Suffice to say there are many in this community that might have to go after Avalon for a pound of flesh if this drags out any longer. Better late than never doesn't work in Bitcoin mining so there might be a point in time with these chips that lawsuit might be the only way to recoup some of the losses. Back to the group thread here... I wish everyone the best of luck on this and I really want to see the DIY fabrication go forward they deserve the support even if it is at a small loss to those chip buyers. You never know the BTC might shoot through the roof again and you can recoup the ROI in that spike. |
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Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.
I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people. You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers. I've seen this guy on the BFL blogs. He hasn't received his mining rig(s) yet. Hes not as bothered as everyone else cause he's plan is more long term. And maybe he's not a complainer by nature like myself and many here. He's trying to point out that there's a flip side to this coin. If you notice he's not saying any of you are outright wrong, he's simply saying there's another part of the story to all of this as well which people should consider. And in that regard he is right. But so are the people here who are upset and pissed off. His point is that the current bad attitude is not helping anyone so why not try a different approach, why not try thinking long term or simply ask for a refund. That's not a scammer - a devil's advocate perhaps but not a scammer. Here is the right approach cutting through everything and getting right to the point. Put BFL out of business and rid the community of this huge drag on bitcoin economy. They are not too big to fail. Lol. Unless BFL does something to drastically change their approach and attitude towards customers the free market will put them out of business next year. Feel free to give them a nudge a push or shove... the FTC and AG are waiting for your complaint. BFL = Shady. |
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Yes that is simple. Did BFL ever promise in it's advertising any particular bitcoin pay back for buying the hardware?
I just wonder because that would expose them to a serious liability lawsuit.
I'd be surprised if they did. I certainly wouldn't if I built mining hardware seeing as how many variables out of your control could change profitibility of your product, then again it is BFL so who knows. If that was posted somewhere I'm sure someone will dig it up. One side benefit of all this is I am a bit more aware of my rights as a consumer in certain situations due to all the postings of regulations and law. Yes that is good. We need to take that one step further and work together and push these companies further and expect them to refund when requested or send in official complaints to the relevant authorities. Avalon or BFL both have exposure here legally and that is where we can apply pressure. BFL = Shady. |
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Most people are likely just so pissed over 'potential lost profits' that they just want to lash out.
I get the feeling that you have lost so much money in so many scams that you think it is just par for the course. Getting ripped off and lied to may be your lot in life, but it doesn't have to be that way for other people. You should take up sports gambling so you stop feeding the scammers. I've seen this guy on the BFL blogs. He hasn't received his mining rig(s) yet. Hes not as bothered as everyone else cause he's plan is more long term. And maybe he's not a complainer by nature like myself and many here. He's trying to point out that there's a flip side to this coin. If you notice he's not saying any of you are outright wrong, he's simply saying there's another part of the story to all of this as well which people should consider. And in that regard he is right. But so are the people here who are upset and pissed off. His point is that the current bad attitude is not helping anyone so why not try a different approach, why not try thinking long term or simply ask for a refund. That's not a scammer - a devil's advocate perhaps but not a scammer. Here is the right approach cutting through everything and getting right to the point. Put BFL out of business and rid the community of this huge drag on bitcoin economy. They are not too big to fail. |
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"...And when I bought it not half an hour ago, you assured me that its lack of movement was due to it being tired
and shagged out after a long squawk."
"It's probably pining for the fjords."
"Pining for the fjords, what kind of talk is that?" Again we are sorry for the slow and inexcusable delay in the refund for Kyle. We are still trying to refund a remaining few customers who have yet to respond to our emails. Please check this thread as we continue refunds for the K1 Nano's. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251831.0 |
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hi guys, i'm interested in the new butterfly miners, but i can't find a miner that isn't a "preorder" so, anyone really received a miner? how much do you had to wait?
thanks
I ordered on 25.6.2012 and received my first batch of 4 X little singles on 1.8.2013. I have been pretty happy for the mining performance. With ambient temperature 12 celsius they hash 128.6 G/h s I am just making little tuning and have already sometimes reached over 133 GH/s on a 2 hour period. I live in europe and all units had wrong power plugs (3-pin model) also 2 units were missing micro usb cables. So be prepared. Old monitor power cables for example fit to BFL power supplies. After 1 day operation one original PSU blew up so I plugged it to my corsair PC PSU because Power connector is 6 pin PCI-E I guess Singles have 2 6 Pin PCI-E plugs needed because little single has other empty hole next to PCI-E power plug I am building new room for them in the basement for the winter and going to us UG802 with picuntu as control PC. Hashrate is related to startup & HW erors so cooler is allways better. Also BFL didn't attach any proper shipping documentation or invoice so take every paper printed out if you need to go to customs. Perhaps wise to ask/print real $ invoice beforehand.Because I had very bad luck aka fire in my house + I am afraid of custom parody happening again I am selling my next little single preorder: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281155185183?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649Hope this helps, make sure you can source quickly those micro USB cables/power plugs EDIT: Forgot to mention noice. This babieas make noice like circular saws, so if you have to place them in your bedroom ( I had to sleep a week with them after fire  replace cheapo chinese fans with arctic cooling or noctua silent ones. I am planning to make one with arctic fans and test if I can get few more Gh out of it. Also I screwed out those ridiculous roundhole plates from both ends (torx T10) and it made them run little cooler. Ouch... BFL = Shady. |
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They have announced fake unicorn miner only to have possiblity to say to customer...
Customer: my miner is not profitable as you ship, it will mine at loss!
Bfl: sorry, you could upgrade to monarch and you didn't, fool, it is your fault
Corollary: Customer: my monarch is not profitable as you ship, it will mine at loss! Bfl: sorry, you could upgrade to "super monarch" and you didn't, fool, it is your fault FYPFY Wait for it. March 2013: BFL announces the worlds first 20nm Bitcoin ASIC; the 10TH/s "super monarch" liquid hydrogen * cooled miner. Available for order today at a low introductory price of $10,000.01 **. Thats right a BFL first, early buyer price guarantee. Price will rise to our normal retail price after the first 100,000 introductory units are sold so buy early for the highest ROI. Estimated delivery in June 2013 ***. Using a mere 0.2 W/GH the Super Monarch is supplied the 2KW of power with the conveniently included #2AWG power cables for connection to an onsite plasma torch power supply ****. Upgrade today (or don't complain that your existing pre-orders are unprofitable we are trying to help you out here) *****.
* PayPal has a $9,999.99 limit on transactions and will not provide us an exception so we are unable to take PayPal. It has nothing to do with forced chargebacks or anything like that. PayPal only allows $9,999.99 and we are selling our units at $10,000.01. It just can't be fixed. ** Liquid hydrogen not included. After the first 100,000 introductory units price will rise to standard retail price of $10,000.02. *** Our lawyers require us to clarify that delivery date is not June 2013. We guarantee we will estimate your delivery date by June 2013. See what we did there. Pretty clever huh? **** Plamsa torch power supply and home wiring upgrade not included. ***** Existing undelivered monarch pre-orders can upgrade for a 10% upgrade fee. Existing undelivered SC pre-orders can upgrade to Monarch for a 10% fee and then upgrade their Monarch to Super Monarch for another 10% fee. Seriously you expect two upgrades for only a 10% fee. If they actually said they had something like this, I dont know what more can be said other than "run on the bank" Scammy is as scammy does. BFL = Shady. |
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What why is Josh not betting? |
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Google the email address for the president of PayPal and email him. It worked for me more than 80 days after purchase.
If all refunds went as smoothly. BFL = Shady. |
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even if I got these this weekend, my two K16 would take 50 days to break even
if it goes another month, probably be around 80 days or more.
I feel for you guys with the big orders, this is ugly
+ ROI is good... As long as the mofo's ship soon we can salvage what we put in. As for offer from prodigits7 that was a deal on the chips. Given that there is still a window for the chips to actually arrive and still be good for ROI selling them sub cost at this point is panic selling. If you dump like that anyone would be interested in going for it. I for one would rather have Avalon give our COOP our refund on our chips as requested on our support ticket August 5th but acquiring more chips particularly if you have access to fab is a risky move but potentially rewarding if the price is right ROI can be better if those chips arrive in the next week or two. I do not have a dog in this group any longer but seeing prodigits7 actively engaged and making deals would put my mind at ease. The problems we faced with this group buy in the past was Ragin being awol. |
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That sounds not too bad if we don't make ROI with initial machine. So we can just send you some money (board/assemble/shipping) and the chip is included free.
I just don't like the idea of even spending more/risking more after already spending big to earn more.
I share your fear... as an Avalon Chip Group Buy leader I want more security for our cooperative members as well as customers. That is why when we did planning for our production of the K1 we had our own money backing the units production not the "pre-sales" we made in BTC from customers. When we realized that Avalon was going to bock the chip shipments we pulled the plug and immediately started refunds of BTC. That is how we handled it acting as the "escrow" and the supplier... risky for the customer but we knew we were good on our promise and planned for utter failure by storing the BTC to one side never touched. I suspect the MPP is a great move forward but yes we have to be careful, we have to question every detail and if you can't risk it don't buy it is the best solution. Personally I want chips. I want to see the DIY community to take on new and better companies that will deliver. Hash Fast seems to be sending out the right signals but we need to see the chips, the delivery and get those units in our hands before we can really pass judgement. At this point this community is rightly cautious and needs to remain that way. |
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And as well as electricity costs/running costs?
You know a better thing to do would be to offer refunds at anytime prior to delivery.
Refunds are not better, they don't make you any ROI or profit. As opposed to no product, no refunds like BFL? No refunds only if you're foolish enough to pay in bitcoins  FTC will have something to say about that... there will be an end game and BFL is not going to weasle out of their obligations that easily. Nor will Avalon. Fair warning on BTC that is why reputable 3rd party escrow is required. Or deal with people who have given refunds in BTC in the past. JohnK is my hero. We need more ways to get companies to work with the JohnKs of the world. |
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