what? with lead time of 8-10 weeks agreed upon ordering, some orders made after june are not even suppose to ship yet, why would we offer refund for them.
it simply says since chips are arriving, we believe we will be on time, if not, a new refund form will be made.
Where are the chips? Where is the tracking number? Why haven't you responded to emails, phone calls, LinkedIN messages, Support tickets? Given you have not responded directly to our queries we have to start legal action. We have no reasonable belief you have the chips, nor do you have capacity to ship them given the BACKLOG that exists. Reply to our support ticket and messages it has been over a month with NO REPLY. |
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Where are the chips?
3 weeks late on the shipping the developer chips?
No reply to emails, support tickets and phone calls to customers with nearly $80000 USD invested since we started reaching out for answers on July 28th.
Sorry but that is just wrong.
Cut off on the 22nd... nice... (sarcasm implied) you need to refund everyone that asks simply because you do NOT HAVE THE CHIPS TO SHIP!
Where are the chips? Do you have them in hand? Tracking numbers? We have been asking for weeks for clarification.
We have no evidence of that and given the failure to ship the majority of your chips on time we requested a refund on August 4th via support ticket. Still no reply?
Interesting.
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Yifu just keep doing what you're doing, all these complaints are just wasting their own time. You're fulfilling your legal duties and fulfilling orders to the best of your ability unless proven otherwise. Apart from the B3 refunds which was a 'it happens' script error. I personally lost 5 figures on B3, but hey what can you do.
And i was so sure that was sarcasm after reading your last sentence. But im not so sure now anymore after reading your last posts in the forum. yea, dogie is using some bad drugs ... Ignored. ------------ Feel free to email / pm if you are also interested in pushing this legal action. I don't think several hundred thousands of dollars is small change and would look good on an AG's resume. Time has run out for Avalon. |
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Yifu: exactly how are you going to compensate chip orders that are after June 1st seeing how they are already very late based on the NO BS terms of sale?
Exactly. This June 1st before/later divide is extremely bad news. YIFU doesn't have enough BTC and he had to put the line somewhere. God only knows if he will really refund everybody or just shovel down worthless chips to us. I wonder how can he sleep at night openly refusing to refund early June orders when he knows they are already late more than 10 weeks. He promised to refund just few days ago! This man is amazing. We need to start filing complaints with the AG of NY and Nevada I guess and maybe it is time to TIP the feds off on Yifu? https://tips.fbi.gov/ |
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Does this mean if you ordered chips after Jun1 they are going to ship them to you on Wednesday?
Ya sure they will. SARCASM. They are late for those June 2nd and late up to late June. No evidence they have chips and given they have yet to respond to any communications via email, phone, support ticket directly our group is of the right mind to just call the feds. Enough screwing around with these jokers time to get legal on them. http://www.ag.ny.gov/consumer-frauds/Filing-a-Consumer-Complainthttp://www.ag.ny.gov/internet/online-forms |
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You gotta be kidding me? You have not provided ANY evidence you have the chips you are late on orders still after JUNE 1 and you want to give refunds up to that point. Not going to fly. Refund everyone that has requested it. There is some arbitrary refund there do you not think? Given you are late to deliver to those who ordered AFTER June 1st what makes you think that will be good enough? This will get very ugly. Where is our $70,000 time to call the authorities again. The first FBI threat wasn't enough to get your attention? Avalon ASIC Chips Shipping, Refunds, and Status Update
View this email in your browser
Avalon ASIC
Chips Delivery Update, September Edition
Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.
The link to the request form is below, please note this only applies to orders made earlier than June 1st.
In other news, for those who decided to wait or wish to know more about delivery schedule will be glad to note we are receiving a batch of 400,000+ chips on Wednesday, with that we expect to be in good shape for meeting the upcoming deadlines of chip deliveries for orders made in June and later.
In addition, we hope to wrap up generation one, finish shipping the chips, construct the modules and build the 2 module Avalon mini, put this pre-order mess behind us in general and switch gear into 55nm production, tape out generation 3, and start work on improving chip design for generation 4. Only sell what we can produce in a day on the assembly line, and only what's in stock.
Request Refund |
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I really like this calculator http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php. It seems better than the genesis block, just simply due to the fact that you can slow the rate of increase over time. It also calculates based on each difficulty jump, rather than a standard monthly rate of increase. It is still not 100% accurate, but it is better than the genesis block mining calculator. Thanks CC... will add that to my collection. |
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I want incoming Avalon Refunds or a reply to our group buys support ticket for the refund. That is what this thread should be about... refunding everyone now not later.
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2 years POOF!
DAY 1 without the game...
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And just over 24 hours ago here come Bitfury!!! Solo Mining on their own pool at 115TH/s which gives them 20%+ of this lovely Bitcoin Network. https://ghash.io/We need to be very afraid of these ASIC Companies Mining who are already Centralizing the Bitcoin network day-by-day. They will mine while the difficulty is low to milk what they can, then will ship out preordered chips and miners when any kind of decent ROI time for US, who mostly paid for everything they have, has past. Then we get to worry if we'll ever even earn back what we've paid for these ASICs. Lovely isn't it? This is what will happen to the majority of ASIC Miner and Chip purchasers who did have "Contacts" or were able to "Buy" their place in line. At this point in time, w/o doing any extensive research, ASICMiner and Bitfury combined are about 40% of the Entire network right now!!  It's amazing that you blame the only companies that are actually delivering something to the miners. Bitfury just shipped on time leaving hundreds of customers used to delays and scam everywhere surprised and thankful, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=250249.msg3043629#msg3043629And those are the bad guys?!? Not everyone can be honest and on time. |
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We Miners, have to stop buying in to these ridiculous preorder fiasco's and stop supporting the Companies that want to use our Money to support their Large Scale ASIC Farms under the guise that they will send our Orders ASAP when Chips arrive. I call Bullshit after seeing what has gone on this last year or so
We Need to stop giving them our Hard-earned Money so they can NOT continue to use us to Fund Their "Get Rich with ASIC Schemes"! I'm sure there will be people who do not agree with me but having been burned myself and seeing the frustration of so many others on here I feel we need to put a stop to this ourselves! By Not giving them any more money!
It's almost embarrassing but there are just to many optimistic people who are only to happy to become investomers and fund someone else's business and shoulder someone else's risk because they believe in big returns. BFL and Avalon set the bar and were SO successful EVERY SINGLE other entrant in the retail hardware space (with the exception of ASICMINER) have done the same. Obviously risking other peoples money while not giving up equity is a wet dream come true for a start up, what I think a lot of these companies fail to realize is that legally speaking there is a pretty clear distinction between a customer and an investor and that the law does not have a definition for an investomer. Unfortunately it will be quite sometime IMO before we are done with full payment pre-orders (as much as I personally wish this wasn't the case). Better to work in a collective / cooperative manner and deal directly with fabricators. The individual has little or no recourse. I am not talking group buys I am talking proper collective / cooperatives where risk and capital investment is shared equally.To me this is the crux of the issue. I can't justify the current risk/reward proportions between the company and the customer. I find it so weird that people happily fund a complete strangers start up for no equity, all they ask for (and atm there isn't even a guarantee they will get it) is simply a machine that may or may not provide a positive return on investment before it becomes obsolete! Any vehicle that puts the risk reward proportions back the way the rest of the world works is a good thing. I am trying to think of another market where customers purchasing a product (no equity, royalties or future considerations are received just the product) also fund the start up of the business, can anyone think of one? I agree with that assessment at the time there were no avenues for other than pre-orders... let us hope that changes but given the size of an investment now for something off the shelf I doubt people have tens of thousands kicking around just to get in the game. The rich in this will get richer regardless of the available hardware be it pre order or off the shelf. That is where I am thinking the game has really changed. There will be fewer avenues for the individual. |
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now what to buy?
Nothing. At the moment there is no Hardware that will ROI with a diffi rising 110% per 30 days and not only rising exponentially but the percent rise is rising exponentially too. Ill keep out of hardware for sure. Buy BTC... best bet... there seems to be upward pressure on price again. Could we see $233 topped in a short time? |
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We Miners, have to stop buying in to these ridiculous preorder fiasco's and stop supporting the Companies that want to use our Money to support their Large Scale ASIC Farms under the guise that they will send our Orders ASAP when Chips arrive. I call Bullshit after seeing what has gone on this last year or so
We Need to stop giving them our Hard-earned Money so they can NOT continue to use us to Fund Their "Get Rich with ASIC Schemes"! I'm sure there will be people who do not agree with me but having been burned myself and seeing the frustration of so many others on here I feel we need to put a stop to this ourselves! By Not giving them any more money!
It's almost embarrassing but there are just to many optimistic people who are only to happy to become investomers and fund someone else's business and shoulder someone else's risk because they believe in big returns. BFL and Avalon set the bar and were SO successful EVERY SINGLE other entrant in the retail hardware space (with the exception of ASICMINER) have done the same. Obviously risking other peoples money while not giving up equity is a wet dream come true for a start up, what I think a lot of these companies fail to realize is that legally speaking there is a pretty clear distinction between a customer and an investor and that the law does not have a definition for an investomer. Unfortunately it will be quite sometime IMO before we are done with full payment pre-orders (as much as I personally wish this wasn't the case). Better to work in a collective / cooperative manner and deal directly with fabricators. The individual has little or no recourse. I am not talking group buys I am talking proper collective / cooperatives where risk and capital investment is shared equally. |
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Not sure. I know he was starting to lose heart earlier. I really hope he doesn't. :-/
With that said, there's been a lot of talk about refunds. I've already ordered and received all the components for everyone's miners, save for chips. Colin has already been paid as well. At this point, I don't really have much in hand to give you guys. On top of this, the terms of sales you guys agreed to state that refunds won't be available once components have been ordered.
However, I don't want to leave you all high and dry either. I've just emailed Colin to see how much of what I paid him he'd be willing to refund for those who want refunds. I will not be seeking a refund myself, though I am fully aware that this may be more due to having invested a lot into this emotionally than due to any cold, reasoned calculation.
Thank you all again for your support.
Maybe the group buy leaders should do a conference call and try to work this out somehow with the DIY builders / fabricators. If we can get enough chips to cover the builds asap and refund everyone else then all would be good. But of course Yifu needs to be in that discussion and work with everyone to help that happen. I want to do whatever we can to help you guys out it is insanity that these efforts are withering on the vine. Maybe there is a way to nego all this for a win win for those who want out now and those who are still pressing ahead or are ready to fab. We want more project like this so the effort we put in to saving these projects will pay dividends for everyone the next time chips and designs are available for the DIY community. |
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I don't think anyone should buy it either but showing a projection at just short of 1 exahash in Jan 2015 is just silly. With free hardware and 0.5 J/GH you would lose money mining at that difficulty.
Yup... our friends at genesis block need to shore up that metric... or use something more inline with your electricity break even metric. Either way. The hardware required to hook up these PCIe cards is going to be very expensive and inefficient compared to other systems and the power at the wall is going to be much higher than 350W. |
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http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/04a477c2faBreak Even Period: No break-even in first year Total Fixed Costs: $7180
Max Profit: $ Monthly Power Costs: $7.56
Month Difficulty (MM) Time per
Block (days) Monthly Revenue Monthly
Profit Cumulative
Return
Feb-14 1954 162 $636 $628 $(6,550)
Mar-14 3439 285 $361 $354 $(6,200)
Apr-14 6053 502 $205 $198 $(6,000)
May-14 10654 883 $117 $109 $(5,890)
Jun-14 18751 1554 $66 $59 $(5,830)
Jul-14 33002 2734 $38 $30 $(5,800)
Aug-14 58083 4812 $21 $14 $(5,790)
Sep-14 102226 8470 $12 $5 $(5,780)
Oct-14 179917 14906 $7 $-1 $(5,780)
Nov-14 316655 26235 $4 $-4 $(5,790)
Dec-14 557312 46174 $2 $-5 $(5,790)
Jan-15 980869 81267 $1 $-6 $(5,800) Never make that money back on this unit... do not pre-order
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I'm still here and haven't abandoned the project. I've had some disruptions over the last week as the tile guys that I've been waiting for since March finally arrived and started putting in floors. I've been moving stuff around from room to room, and it's a mess, stuff piled up everywhere. Timing couldn't have been worse, and my time diverted. I'm setting up my workbench and tools again and back working again, though the room I'm in still has no floor and I'll have to move back again in 2 days. If it were just me here I could probably have delayed them but my wife (and other family) presses on me as well. Plus I really need a floor.
I appreciate the kind words above and want to finalize this whole thing so I can move on. I feel like I'm stumbling around not knowing what's actually going to happen regarding Avalon chips, much disheartened by everything, but trying to keep a more positive outlook.
Keep Flooring And Carry On. |
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It is pretty clear that the delay is planned and intentionally.
...
Avalon team is corrupted, untrustworth, scammy, selfish, and criminal.
It's hard to put your finger on intentions. What we know for sure is that the customer support has degraded massively from shipping the first units to batch 3 and the chips, and there has been no attempt to rectify the situation. This makes you wonder what the long term plan of that company is. It is unlikely that they will operate in the B2C space any further, and focus on B2B - otherwise they would try to fix their reputational damage at this stage. They announced better tech - but given the state of affairs, it's likely not going to benefit the mining community as a whole (e.g. by offering competitively priced hardware or similar arrangements), but a chosen group of investors/entrepreneurs. I think most mining hardware sales is going to be B2B not B2C anyhow... if you are not looking to go "big" in mining one will have to take your ball and go home at this point. But yes poor customer service and management is the problem here and likely they could careless at this point given the remarks Yifu made. Alternatively the DIY or chip only fabricators will also push the marketplace. Given Avalons failure I can't see many people wanting to risk it. |
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I had the opportunity to reply to BFL's response to the BBB, and I did state that "2 months or more" is not a definite date according to FTC rules, and that denial of refund requests also runs contrary to FTC rules. So if BBB closes my complaint, it will be marked as complainant unsatisfied. Maybe BBB personnel should take a refresher course on the FTC mail order rules.
They should read their own standards for businesses and then really be given all the information including the posts here in this forum where Josh has been abusive. They have failed on many areas of the BBB standards if one were to seek accreditation from the BBB. Just keep sending in the evidence... it will all be compiled every bit counts. Given what we have seen from BFL they would fail on each standard outlined. http://www.bbb.org/us/bbb-accreditation-standards/ |
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