Implied threats... not cool at all... mod's need to police that. Report the fraud have the AG handle these clowns. They like us are human, they have families and deserve that privacy even if they would not do the same for us or have also implied threats towards others. Not cool at all and over the line.

Agreed. Unnecessary.

Wish you luck.  I hope they refund you.

They can't ship what they haven't even designed. This is vaporware there is just a hope and prayer by BFL to sucker more money out of people. Nothing. Zero. You might want to read BFL forums for more posts like these. Very possible this is the worst investment into bitcoin mining hardware you can make at the moment given what you are able to read right in the BFL forums. You have been warned.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/jalapeno-single-sc-support/4603-refund-requested.html

Been waiting since August 5th for 10K lot refund ticket to be answered Sam just wanted to give you a heads up maybe others have posted tickets and have been waiting longer than us via the support ticket system for a reply. I update it weekly will add additional notes or information just for the sake future suits that might be required for example Zefirs thread and the reply from Yifu. I wish you and your group luck.

Not every business needs to be done like that surely?

This needs to be moved to another area like the VAPORWARE section.

The cold ware never ended... you just swapped it for the war on drugs and the war on terror. How's that going for ya?

You know what I think MOST of us posting are trying to do the right thing and that to me is professional and genuine... gullible is also another adjective for us as well unfortunately we believed and really should have listened to the Batch 1 to 3 people and their issues rather than simply assuming those damn chips being delivered would be a cakewalk.

You really really really like me.

Escrow I always use JohnK... our whole COOP was "escrow" for the customer BTC but that was part of the delay dealing with 3 different nationals to get all the refunds out to our customers.

Also let me clarify how our group buy and K1 sales are different than others:

The cooperative to which we belong purchased 10K chip lot from Avalon. I handled the coins and paid Avalon. We then were going to take our chips and fabricate all into K1s and have our special 50 Port Hub work as a board so we could do density mining and sell off whatever else the market wanted. We pre-sold the K1s knowing our coop members had already promised to cover the costs of production of each and everyone of the K1s. So those who bought from us through our store were protected against such an event no matter how many units they bought 1 or 10 or 10,000. By the last week of July we were still waiting on the earlier chip buys and we were still trying to source a few parts but had the fabrication ready to roll in a 1 week window as soon as we had all our components enough for 11K of Klondike Nanos. But given that no chips had arrived and the developer chips were 3 weeks late we just made the sane choice and on August 5th we asked for a refund via support ticket. We informed BKKCoins soon after as we were still hoping to pass along $11K in royalties... that is the sad part of the whole story.

We refunded everyone who prepaid for the K1s from our store but we are still waiting to refund our own members for the Avalon chips. 25 days still no reply from Avalon and that is where I want a reply soon or we release the Legal Kracken.

You would think right?

Further to this...

Do the chips actually exist that have been in ordered?
When would they even start shipping?
Where is the DHL tracking info if they exist and are shippable?

I mean saying a refund in principle is what he is thinking is best is great but if people still want chips the questions above have NEVER been answered.

Lawsuits are coming if this is not resolved asap.

----

I get the distinct feeling there are no chips since there has been ZERO confirmation from any source they are in hand and are shipping out or could be shipped out.

Correct.

And I clearly COMMUNICATED with my customers when we shut things down and gave refunds and acted in a professional manner that it was OUR fault not Avalons. People appreciated the way we handled our refunds and there was not nearly the same level of problems that is the focus of BFL and Avalon right now. So not sure where I fit on your scale of this problem but people were disappointed with us but not angry and shouting at us in the forums. Which is the problem we are trying solve. Also to our credit we held the BTC in cold storage and didn't use any of it for production so that refunds were always possible given ANY failures.

This issue is the VITRIOL not the errors and lack of education correct? So you are not really helping solve the problem pointing out we lack the business acumen required.  There has to be consequences for those overtly being deceptive that to me is an issue more than the my personal stupidity or that of the other DIYers out there but as I said "I agree with you we are part of the problem", however, no where near the root cause of it.

I would also note that Zefir has handled his issues with Avalon very professionally which should be the model we need moving forward too bad that two companies Bitsyncom (Avalon) and BFL can't do the same and I think that is primarily WHY we have problems but what are the solutions? So even though we may have caused issues the results have been minimal. Where things get out of hand are BFL, AVALON attempting to lay blame on the community for their calls for answers. The majority of these blowouts are caused primarily with the lack of ethical behavior or ethical business standards of a very few people and companies. I have called for a subforum that is based on standards not on false pretense and vaporware or on broken promises.

So given that education alone is not going to solve this we need alternatives so what is your suggestion? Pointing a finger at the buyers and shouting caveat emptor is a cop out if you ask me given the lack of any standards for posting these forums in terms of product claims and there has been some clear FRAUD by individuals. More has to be done.

The Monarch is vaporware. Where is there ANY evidence of the designs for the chip and PCIe board?

If you pre-ordered this you are effectively risking a very very very long wait just to get to a prototype and the specifications are pure fiction as there has yet to be any engineering done on this product. It is vaporware, imaginary, speculative and not worth anything at this point as there is nothing on the drawing board. Who is doing the design for the chips, the PCB? Do they have the know how and experience? Why would any put money down on this?

Will the bitfury chip be 'enough' given the other chips coming out?
What are the numbers and when does the Bitfury become the next Avalon chip?

Be nice to know the rough timeframe on that to consider whether a Bitfury project is viable.

Ok we all get that...

What are the solutions?

There is no evidence they even have a design so the product does not even exist. How they can assume a production date from a rendering and specifications they would like to meet is beyond credulity?

Solutions?

Any?

Conclusions?

Any?

No need to overanalyze the roots of the problem they are clear. Failure to meet promises from "custom hardware" fabricators. Can we focus on the solutions to the vitriol that is the result rather than debating the reasons it propagates?

We'll see who's laughing when reality hits you smack tards in the face. When you become the econically unviable and you become one of them who are you going turn to?

The world is fucked up and you all know that, but to fix it you have to go to the cause of the issues and in truth its 300 people with a average age of 60! Well past there sell by date.

As for raciest whatever you called me, go shove your narrow minded head up your arse until you suffercate. I have friends in India, Australia, america, south Korea amoung other places so go suck Obamas dick you Zionist worshipping idiot.

Just. Because you don't want to look at it for what it is doesn't make it not so. The human mind is very clever at making you feel everything's OK when in reality the shit hit the fan in the 90's and we been piling it up ever since!

Instead of blinding following what your force fed in your life, start using them braincells and question things. That's the only way I got to know what I know. Prove me wrong, go out there and prove me wrong! I challenge you!

You people on here need go listen to max Kaiser and actually learn something about the corpocricy that runs the world!

And as much respect I have for Noam Chomsky, I have issues with how he looks at some things. I'm more atoned to us been a consiceness that lives on and what we live now is body concisness. I.e, once you die you live on but lose the body concisness that we are always told is the be all and end all. Well I'm sorry, I ain't religious but there is a more powerful substance than we are lead to believe! Stop boxing your mind in with make believe walls!
 

He shouldn't be posting any racist crap in any thread... but oh well what can you do when people don't read deeply.

You need to start reading http://www.zcommunications.org/ not watching too much Max Kaiser who seems to be pretty quiet about PUTIN doesn't he?

You have not read enough Chomsky period if you are spouting that garbage. Sorry but really have to put you on ignore now I can't read such drivel. You are almost there to real enlightenment just jettison the racist / zionist plot crap and look at how the world really works. http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/ Skeptics unite.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48351 <-- Socrates of the modern era... you need to give him the respect he deserves and ignore the foil hat crowd.

+1 pretty much on the nose.

Unlikely to see real chip prices drop unless there is real off the shelf sales rather than limited quantities. We are all still being held by the short and curlies.