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1861  Other / Serious discussion / Re: Code of Conduct in Exchanges: The Crypto Constitution (+ Terms of Use screening) on: June 22, 2018, 10:33:03 AM
The world of crypto has become a billion dollar business with millions of users buying, selling and speculating on the new crypto-exchanges. No explanation needed to know that this is a VERY lucrative business.

Keeping in mind that Satoshi created his Bitcoin to put an end to the power monopolies which were resting in the hands of governments, banks and corporations, I am having the feeling that many of these crypto exchanges have formed a new group of corporations. Lately I've been reading quite some complaints about people who find themselves scammed by exchanges. Someone even suggested some of the exchanges are owned by whale groups. I have never been scammed but some actions clearly feel as unlawful practices which we have no choice but to accept.

I disagree. By using the exchange you are accepting their terms. As a consumer you have every ability to not accept their terms. You can choose not to trade on an exchange if you disagree with their terms.

The exchange cannot chose the customers that sign up. Their terms determine which customers they can exclude and why.


I AM NOT SAYING THESE EXCHANGES ARE OR ARE NOT ABUSING THEIR POWER. What I am saying is this: should they want to abuse their power, you have no rights whatsoever.

My libertarian heart is bleeding when I am saying this, but: we have a lot more legal protection and rights against governments, banks and corporations, than we have against some of these exchanges.

I think we, the users, should stick together and create a Code of Conduct, as a kind of "Private Constitution", let's call it "The Crypto Constitution" or "The Crypto Code of Conduct", leaving the possibility to any exchange (voluntarily) to undersign this Code of Conduct. This Code should contain our rights as users/clients/investors.

I am thinking of the following suggestions:

- clear rules about how and where exchanges publish their fees
- clear rules about how to sign up and how to sign out
- clear rules about our privacy protection
- transparency about how and when new coins can be listed
- transparency about why and when existing coins will be delisted, and a minimum amount of time before delisting
- transparency about the owners and (possible) shareholders of the exchanges
- clear rules about what independent institution or which person will take a legal decision in case of a conflict or a discussion
- etc.


The institution or person who judges in case of a conflict, could be a court of law of a country. Personally, as a libertarian, I would suggest the creation of an independent private arbitrator institution, which could then be (voluntarily) accepted as judge by both parties in case of a conflict. If possible through the Blockchain. This could even create a whole new Blockchain industry. In the future, the Crypto Constitution could maybe even be expanded for ICOs and other crypto projects, so that these arbitrators could even be used for conflicts in ICOs and so on.

We all have read and understood the terms and conditions of these exchanges we've been using for months and even years now, telling us what we can and what we may not do. It's about time we stood up and ask them: how about OUR rights?


I agree with most of your suggestions. I'm not sure whether "shareholders" would need to be disclosed. Crypto holders are now increasingly targeted for armed robberies.

Someone owning shares may have no voting rights and have no influence over management decisions.

Some exchanges are funded by ICO tokens and the ownership is completely obscured by anonymity or pseudo anonymity.

Some exchanges work within the legal framework of a country and are registered LLC or Limited companies while others are obscured by trusts, tax haven registrations and hidden identities.
1862  Other / Serious discussion / Re: Thorough analysis: Terms&Conditions & Privacy on crypto exchanges !BE WARNED! on: June 22, 2018, 09:58:11 AM

* CRYPTOPIA:

1. Terms of Use:

- It's all a bit vague. They are liable for nothing. In case of discussion, it's the Consumer Laws of New Zealand which are applicable in cases of discussion.
- If you use multiple accounts or threaten the staff of the exchange, your account is closed and your coins will be seized. I don't know New Zealand's Consumer Laws, but I am pretty sure under no condition they would allow Cryptopia to seize your coins. Roll Eyes It's the type of Terms of Use that seem to have been made up by a 10-year-old... Or maybe they are taking their customers as people with the brains of a 10-year-old. Don't know what's worse.

Your analysis is good but partly incorrect.

Multiple accounts are allowed - except for the purpose of defrauding, circumventing bans, soliciting or abusing Cryptopia Ltd. services

This is what they state:
Quote
Multiple accounts for the purpose of defrauding, circumventing bans, soliciting or abusing Cryptopia Ltd. services will result in immediate termination of all related accounts, including seizure of all on-site digital property. Threats towards Cryptopia Ltd., Cryptopia Ltd. Staff will result in immediate termination of all related accounts, including seizure of all on-site digital property.
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Home/Terms

Seizure of digital property is permitted in the case of fraud or malicious damage to the site. In the case of fraud, theft or criminal activity it is in some cases even a legal requirement. Authorities could instruct seizure on their behalf. In cases of malicious damage it could be permitted to cover costs.
The ultimate legality of such seizure would be determined by the New Zealand courts.
If you act legally and abide by the site rules then there is no risk of this being applied.

Threats against staff are covered by the Health and Safety in Employment Act 1992, the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015 and the Crimes Act 1961.

These laws are different from other countries. Workplace safety includes protection from psychological abuse and violators are able to be prosecuted under a variety of laws. Psychological and verbal abuse is recognized as a form of "violence" under New Zealand law.

Abusive behavior in the workplace (including from customers) is not tolerated in New Zealand and can result in criminal prosecution. There is no legal excuse to behave badly and it never helps your situation. If you act with decency there is no risk of this being applied.

In such case seizure (freezing of accounts)  could be permitted to establish the identity of the person committing the crime. (In other words they can get it back after being prosecuted or as directed by law enforcement / courts - or to used to pay penalties of fines imposed)

I believe they are in the process of changing their terms to be more user friendly and clear. (As a volunteer chat moderator there I have been consulted regarding the rewriting of some of the policies)

In some cases the consumers guarantees act could apply. This would depend on whether the user is considered a "consumer" or commercial trader.
This could be quite a complex question and would be best answered by an independent legal adviser.

You should also consider their risk disclosure statement: https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Home/RiskStatement



Cryptopia is also part of a dispute resolution service: https://fdrs.org.nz/  This service is free to the user.

Cryptopia is a registered financial services provider (Crypto exchange)
https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/fsp/app/ui/fsp/version/searchSummaryCompanyFSP/FSP580928/19.do
Part of the criteria of being a financial service provider is having an independent disputes resolution service available.

The New Zealand legal system is quite fair and any dispute up to $15000 can be lodged here: https://www.disputestribunal.govt.nz/
Attendance can be via teleconference for parties that cannot physically attend.

Costs of dispute tribunal proceedings is relatively low and the purpose of the tribunal is to mediate a settlement rather than an formal court setting.

Larger amount are the domain of the district and high courts. You should seek qualified legal advise for that.

2. Privacy Policy:

Looks fine. I do not know New Zealand's 1993 Privacy Act, but I suppose it contains all necessary protection to not have your home address and mobile phone number published on Times Square's billboards.

NZ's privacy laws are quite good.
This is their privacy policy:
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Home/Privacy

3. Coin Adding Policy:

Cryptopia has its own system to add and promote new coins, called "Paytopia".


Currently the only way to list there is through Paytopia or a bulk listing arrangement with their listings manager.

Coin listings are kept secret until they are announced on their official twitter feed. This is to prevent insider trading accusations like happened with coinbase.

4. Coin Removal Policy:

Cryptopia aims to announce the delisting of a coin by e-mail to all of its holders at least 1 month before its delisting. All pending delistings are clearly marked on a separated page.
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Forum/Thread/620 (dead link)
Coins may face delisting for the following reasons:

1. Sufficient nodes are not maintained to keep the network synced and moving.
2. A coinswap.
3. Any network issues or bugs that could result in loss of user funds.
4. Statements made by a coin or coin community that could bring the reputation of Cryptopia into disrepute.

I know they are currently working on updating and clarifying this further.

Cryptopia has recently started notifying users by email about coin delistings - as well a publishing it on their delisting page and on their twitter feed.


5. Fees:

I had to go the Help Center to find out which trading and withdrawal fees are applied by Cryptopia.


Trading fees are a flat rate of 0.2% and are only charged for actual trades.
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/CoinInfo in "settings" are all the applicable withdrawal fees for each coin.

Disclosure: While I have attempted to be as accurate as possible with my information I am only a volunteer chat moderator there. I'm not paid staff and am not authorised to speak on behalf of Cryptopia.
1863  Other / Meta / Re: Ponzi Schemes are illegal right? on: June 22, 2018, 07:43:14 AM

Now days it is almost impossible to prove that project is a ponzi scheme. All of them are masked under MLM companies that are completely LEGAL or under Cloud Mining services, that are LEGAL too. There is also a new and very interesting crypto ponzi scheme, called company revenue shares... Some crypto companies are offering to the token holders the share from their monthly revenues. For example. I invested $1000 and bought the tokens. Every month the company is issuing the statement about their monthly revenue and that revenue is paid to all token holders. Nobody knows if the numbers in that statements are correct, because no external audit is allowed.

I agree.

I know a person who invested $4500 in such project and he is getting $2-4 a week. Yes TWO OR FOUR DOLLARS A WEEK. It means that he needs more than 10 years just to get his money back. That is a well masked PONZI and there is no way to PROVE it.  

It depends completely on how the revenue is generated. A small return like that is sustainable in ordinary commerce situations. If genuine revenue is generated then it isn't a ponzi. If new investment is used to pay old investors then it has the elements of a ponzi. This can sometimes be detected by following the blockchain payments.

ICO tokens that pay a "dividend" run into new risks - being an unregistered security.

Howey Test (USA)
It is an investment of money ☑
There is an expectation of profits from the investment ☑
The investment of money is in a common enterprise ☑
Any profit comes from the efforts of a promoter or third party ☑

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/328/293.html
https://apps.americanbar.org/buslaw/newsletter/0014/materials/investmentch2.pdf

Commonwealth law is a bit different but the test is symilar.
https://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/digital-transformation/initial-coin-offerings-and-crypto-currency/#when


1864  Local / Altcoins (Deutsch) / Re: Übersetzungs-Spam gefunden? Hier könnt ihr ihn berichten on: June 21, 2018, 01:57:04 PM
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.  Grin
1865  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Merit abuse. 50+12 merits received within 1 day and 1 minute. on: June 21, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
I'm not surprised that 1miau got a whole lot of merit. Good posts are hard to find. His posts are generally good quality posts.
1866  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: 🌟 [SIL] 611 (SixEleven) ◥◣ FREE ANONYMOUS DOMAIN NAME SYSTEM ◥◣ 🌟 on: June 21, 2018, 12:18:34 PM
Hi,

https://blockexplorer.611.to/ your block explorer has stopped working. Can you please let me know when this will be fixed ?
1867  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: If OgNasty is a scammer... then who can you really trust on Bitcointalk?! on: June 21, 2018, 11:42:48 AM

I am embarrassed.
I got fooled. I admit. Fortunately, it did not do too much harm. To anyone, my BTC included.
Crap, how stupid I've been. It's a really good lesson for the future Shocked
Now I understand all of this, how he got my account credentials etc.. it turns out it is not the first and only phishing link I got.
I got one before all of that happened, from the guy called "housebtc". And I had to click it and provide my login details in it. HOLY SHITTT!!!
Honestly, I'm on my knees now.
All I can do is apologize to you OgNasty - please understand that this guy had actually got a big advantage over me - as he had control of my account all the time, lol, what is more I am pretty new to the forum, so I believed in this "private messages" thing where I get the message from myself to myself.

Fortunately, only like 7$ BTC loss over there.

And priceless lesson for me.

Right OgNasty, all I can do is apologize for my stupidity. However, as I say, he had control of my account. All of that crap WAS NOT me and I made sure my account is secure now.

We all make mistakes and I think the most important thing is to learn from them.
If there is anything I can do to make it up somehow, let me know please. Will gladly do so, OgNasty.

I cannot believe all this yet...  Shocked Shocked  guess I gotta hit my bed and get back to this tomorrow morning.

WHAT A PRECIOUS LESSON GUYS!!

Here is the private message from housebtc:
https://imgur.com/a/PuRpoNY
FML.

Maybe you should change the title of the thread.

Perhaps a DT can tag hottstepper.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1685399 Jr.Member only buying and selling. Offering to do paypal and using OG as escrow while OG clearly won't do escrow for paypal.
1868  Other / Meta / Re: ANATOMY OF SCAMS on: June 21, 2018, 09:59:37 AM
A good ICO is a rarity. The majority are scams.

A concept or idea would have to exceptional to warrant a successful ICO.

Even some of the ICO's with a decent concept are overvalued.

As an investor you need to look for value for what you are paying as well as quality.

It is relatively easy to make $ on any ICO or crypto launch but if it results in eventual bagholders I'm not interested.

There is simply no sense in exchanging good BTC for a token or alt unless it is an absolutely exceptional project.

A jargon loaded whitepaper or shills spamming "good project" are immediate warning signs.
1869  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Bitconeeeeeext - next Bitconnect (Scam Warning) on: June 20, 2018, 07:18:06 AM
Dear All. Due to scammers and extortionists attack, our ICO is canceled.

We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.

Hey congrats to suchmoon and cryptodevil for getting this guy's panties twisted pretty quickly.

I sincerely hope he unlocks it because I kinda wanted to ask him to explain how they could guarantee those types of profits every month. Flat payout = Flat Ponzi. That's never been anything but the case.

Going by the amount of rage exhibited, he / they must have invested quite a bit into this scheme already.

Its highly likely they never even planned on releasing a token/coin, going by the new standards set by Ethconnect.

Website costs, creation of tokens and whitepaper. I'm sure he was upset that he didn't even recoup his creation costs by scamming people.
https://etherscan.io/token/0xe7cf687a01fc813fbb50c163f6e1c58e080c40ae
https://etherscan.io/token/0xfef47a24b0abefc42950aa319eda354468804bc5
1870  Other / Meta / Re: History - Bitcoin Savings and Trust and Pirateat40 on Bitcointalk (PONZI) on: June 20, 2018, 07:10:25 AM
Anyone know what happened to Trendon Shavers ?
 

He got 18 months in 2016 so must be out by now.
1871  Other / Meta / Re: [Mods: NUKE 120 act] Commercial Spambots post and delete 1000s of posts per day on: June 19, 2018, 10:52:50 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4437670.540 is a classic case of spam bumping to keep the thread up top.

1872  Other / Meta / Re: Trust system abuse on: June 19, 2018, 10:18:31 AM
Currently people can place any feedback they like - some of it is blatantly untrue.  It would be good if we were able to put a comment under any feedback.

1873  Other / Meta / Re: Ask? How if we dont have merit? on: June 18, 2018, 08:28:46 AM
In local boards it is almost impossible to earn merit, and in english board it is just hard, but if you are a newby and do not know much about a crypto, then ranking up it is not your gonna have. That is the sad true.

With a few exceptions of some of the local boards - on some of the local boards there is very little of value being discussed - which is why there is no merit being given there.
When I've been looking for good posts to give merit to I often look at some of the local boards first but found little to give merit to.

Yeah, you can't rank up unless you have merits~
for short, No merit = no rank up ..

and please stop focusing on merits, it literally shows you just want some bounties. If you just want some information in here, then merits are not priority.

TODAY, NO MERITS



Like said by Finalshot2016 It is likely that you want merit for signature campaigns and the spamming of signature campaigns is exactly why there are so many low quality posts.

1874  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: why do governments don't make BTC illegal worldwide ? on: June 18, 2018, 04:01:53 AM
Because bitcoin now is used in a multi billion dollar industry. Banning it will move it to countries that haven't banned it.

A large part of Crypto "value" is being used to further develop its usability.

Currently they can tax it, seize it and sell it and use it to track criminal activity.

Bitcoin has many legit uses and can benefit Governments given the right legislation. It is not in their interest to ban it.
1875  Other / Meta / Re: Why isnt the img, gif, png file showing up on my post on: June 17, 2018, 08:03:21 AM
Hi Moderator and fellow members, I have just made a post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4478424.msg40209868#msg40209868 but the image file isnt showing up as intended. I checked under my profile -> my post, the thread/post is showing up nicely with images, but it just wouldnt show up nicely on the link above. Please may I know anyone has clue on this?

Thank you in advance

As a newbie you don't have image posting privileges.

You need at least Jr member rank to post images or copper membership. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2385104.0
1876  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: EOS - Asynchronous Smart Contract Platform - (Dan Larimer of Bitshares/Steem) on: June 17, 2018, 07:15:53 AM


https://www.ccn.com/eos-blockchain-grinds-to-halt-as-software-bug-freezes-transactions/

Looks like the problems were fixed quite quickly.

1877  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Roger Ver to be sued for defrauding bitcoin newbies. on: June 16, 2018, 02:22:41 AM
I am not a lawyer nor an expert on this. Let's wait for the progress of this case, if indeed this will be filed in the proper courts of the law. However, I am with a little doubt that this will really progress. At the end of the day, the choice as to which between Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash is the real Bitcoin is not that clear. Bitcoin at least has the name but Bitcoin Cash might also have the real vision of the founder. I don't know. I have a wait and see approach on this.

https://coingape.com/roger-ver-is-not-being-sued-after-all/

Looks like those wanting to sue him only raised $4K and abandoned their mission.
1878  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who is Satoshi Nakamoto ? Suspects, frauds and conspiracies on bitcointalk on: June 16, 2018, 02:20:22 AM
I agree the government will try to get him for whatever they can so he could not reveal himself at any time.

http://bitcoinist.com/cia-doesnt-deny-files-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto/

Just in the news today....
1879  Other / Meta / Re: Ponzi Schemes are illegal right? on: June 15, 2018, 11:18:29 PM
I think marlboroza already answered that quite accurately and bluntly.


Yes which backs up my claim that the two rules conflict. Ponzi schemes are illegal all of the countries that I know of and should be removed according to the rules.

Ponzis are usually identified by tagging negative trust. While the signs are relatively easy to identify it is harder to prove definitively that it is a ponzi. Unlike some selling illegal drugs - which would be easy to identify and prove is illegal.
1880  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Cryptopia Cryptocurrency Platform Services and Development on: June 15, 2018, 04:00:25 PM

Thats a big crap you are write and say   !  

On your pictures there are only 0.09  of trade on Zec  but in the other picture you have received 0.65 Zec !  
So where are the other Zec ?  


If you dont have done this maybe its possible your account got Hacked and someone have done Trade or else !  

Have you the right amount on  coins  in your Account ?   When i look at the pictures you should have more Coins now in your account balance or ?  

Possible accidentally someone send it your adress or you have an deposit you have missed or dont known at the passt maybe !

but to say cryptopia is fleecing funds to wallets  is hard , without any explain from a support ticket you have should done about this then !  

Have you done one ?  I hope .


Regards Lafu

I have contacted support and was advised it was my fault. I am absolutely certain that it is not. 2FA is enabled.
I only have those 3 ZEC trades in my history. You might want to read closer....0.03237683 - that is the Rate (price) not the Amount. I can't do anything about it, but i know 100% for sure either a coincidence of magnificent proportions has occurred.... or something fishy is going on.

Are you sure you are logging onto https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/ every time?

When you deposit to a exchange address you get your own individual deposit address but a separate automated process transfers it to the exchange wallet.  A different process "sees" the deposit you have made and credits an amount equal to the amount you deposited to your available funds on the exchange ledger. All exchange transactions occur on the exchange ledger - not on the blockchain.
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