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Author Topic: ETH price soaring. Are you going to move some BTC into ETH?  (Read 198813 times)
Nxtblg
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April 22, 2016, 09:32:20 PM
 #1141

Immediate target: .0235

Well, it's close now: 0.0224, or about $9.65.

$9.33 actually ..and dropping ..still.

As of now, it's down further to <0.018 or about eight bucks. Hmmm...






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marcus_of_augustus
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April 22, 2016, 11:55:08 PM
 #1142

it's going back to less than $1 ... but will take a loooong time to get there.

BitUsher
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April 23, 2016, 12:02:50 AM
 #1143

it's going back to less than $1 ... but will take a loooong time to get there.

Agreed, just like most other alts... slow capitulation.

Greg had an excellent post why ETH doesn't make any sense...

On the pedantic points, I echo what tucenaber just said-- and I could not say it better.  (Also, see #bitcoin-wizards past logs for commentary about total languages. I also consider that a major useful point for languages for this kind of system).

People looking for "turing complete" smart contracts inside a public cryptocurrency network are deeply and fundamentally confused about what task is actually being performed by these systems.

It's akin to asking for "turing complete floor wax".   'What does that? I don't even.'

Smart contracts in a public ledger system are a predicate-- Bitcoin's creator understood this. They take input-- about the transaction, and perhaps the chain-- and they accept or reject the update to the system.   The network of thousands of nodes all around the world doesn't give a _darn_ about the particulars of the computation,  they care only that it was accepted.  The transaction is free to provide arbitrary side information to help it make its decision.

Deciding if an arbitrarily complex condition was met doesn't require a turing complete language or what not-- the verification of a is in P not NP.

In Bitcoin Script, we do use straight up 'computation' to answer these questions; because that is the simplest thing to do, and for trivial rule sets, acceptably efficient.  But when we think about complex rule-- having thousands and thousands of computers all around the world replicate the exact same computation becomes obviously ludicrous, it just doesn't scale.

Fortunately, we're not limited to the non-scalablity-- and non-privacy-- of making the public network repeat computation just to verify it.  All we have to do is reconize that computation wasn't what we were doing from the very beginning, verification was!

This immediately gives a number of radical improvements:

"The program is big and I don't want to have to put it in the blockchain in advance." ->  P2SH, hash of the program goes into the public key, the program itself ends up being side information.

"The program is big but we're only going to normally use one Nth of it-- the branches related to everything going right"  -> MAST, the program is decomposed into a tree of ORs ans the tree is merkelized. Only the taken OR branches ever need to be made public; most of the program is never published which saves capacity and improves confidentiality.

"The program is big, and there are fixed number of parties to the contract. They'll likely cooperate so long as the threat of the program execution exists."  -> Coinswap transformation; the entire contract stays outside of the blockchain entirely so long as the parties cooperate.

"The program is big, and there are fixed number of parties to the contract, and I don't care if everything just gets put back to the beginning if things fail." -> ZKCP; run _arbitrary_  programs, which _never_ hit the blockchain,  and are not limited by its expressive power (so long as it supports hash-locked transactions and refunds.)

"The program is kinda big, and we don't mind economic incentives for enforcement in the non-cooperative case"  -> challenge/response verification; someone says "I assert this contract accepts," and puts up a bond. If someone disagrees, they show up and put up a bond to say it doesn't. Now the first party has to prove it (e.g. but putting the contract on the chain) or they lose their bond to the second party, if they're successful they get the bond from the second party to pay the cost of revealing the contract.

"The program is too big for the chain, but I don't want to depend on economic incentives and I want my contract to be private." ->  ZKP smart contracts; PCP theorem proves that a program can be proved probabilisticly with no more data than log the size of its transcript.  SNARKS use strong cryptographic assumptions to get non-interactive proofs for arbitrary programs which are constant size (a few hundred bytes). Slowness of the prover (and in the case of snarks, trusted setup of the public key-- though for fixed sets of participants, this can be avoided) limit the usefulness today but the tech is maturing.

All of these radical improvements in scalablity, privacy, and flexibility show up when you realize that "turing complete" is the wrong tool, that what our systems do is verification, not computation.  This cognitive error confers no advantage, outside of marketing to people with a fuzzy idea of what smart contracts might be good for in the first place.

More powerful smart contracting in the world of Bitcoin will absolutely be a thing, I don't doubt. But the marketing blather around ethereum isn't power, it's a boat anchor-- a vector for consensus inconsistency and decentralization destroying resource exhaustion and incentives mismatches. Fortunately, the cognitive framework I've described here is well understood in the community of Bitcoin experts.

pujumba
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April 23, 2016, 12:30:30 AM
 #1144

its always the same thing  just example

Launche of ETH : We  Are creating a incredible coin, with a lot of anon features , great developers fair distribution ETC..

and the problems are always the same (i am telling this because the problems is realy always the same)

Find something usefull for the coin (not just make hype)

And the question is the same of 10 years ago

What i can buy With ETH?

well the only thing i kepp going with ETH is my new recently mining RIG

was nice to met you ETH bye bye Grin

spike420211
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April 23, 2016, 06:36:21 AM
 #1145

Quote
What i can buy With ETH?
What concerns me greatly is that THIS is still the 64 satoshi question,
and my previous profiteering in ETH was strictly Najerian day-trading...
Kenta
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April 23, 2016, 08:47:11 AM
 #1146

Quote
What i can buy With ETH?
What concerns me greatly is that THIS is still the 64 satoshi question,
and my previous profiteering in ETH was strictly Najerian day-trading...

It looks like a lot of projects are in the process and if just a few of them becomes popular I'm sure more merchants will try to get access to the valuable currency.

http://dapps.ethercasts.com/

Trade your cryptocoins at: ◣ bleutrade.com ◢◣ C-Cex.com ◢
Dagwanoenyent
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April 23, 2016, 02:26:54 PM
 #1147

So now everybody know it is not about demand it is all about hype..
fricircled
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April 23, 2016, 08:31:05 PM
 #1148

So now everybody know it is not about demand it is all about hype..

The Ethereum is useful. It can be used in smart contracts. No other coins can be that user at the present.
wikenpp
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April 23, 2016, 09:09:22 PM
 #1149

So now everybody know it is not about demand it is all about hype..

The Ethereum is useful. It can be used in smart contracts. No other coins can be that user at the present.

Wrong Bitbay offers it with their new wallet, so does Stellar.
But the concept/ idea is actually quite nice. Having users building apps etc.
mtnsaa
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April 23, 2016, 10:42:27 PM
 #1150

I've recently checked their dapps and there are a lot of new ones so things are moving along. To be honest I'm not impressed with many of you saying ETH bubble popped...it's still above $7-8 so I think it's doing quite ok. It's logical if you think about it because there haven't been much news lately at all, so that's even more impressive.

BTC price has skyrocket recently, if not I think ETH would be around $10 easily. I really don't know where both are going really, crypto is completely unpredictable. If I have to guess, Bitcoin will be close to $500 before the halving but a huge drop will come after that of right after China devalues and nothing happens. Eth will hang around $5-10 for many months but could really benefit if BTC doesn't go anywhere this year and blocksize issues remain unsolved.
yelllowsin
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April 23, 2016, 10:49:15 PM
 #1151

Quote
BTC price has skyrocket recently, if not I think ETH would be around $10 easily.

Segregated witness has just been pushed to github, it is great news for BTC. Once people realize scalability problems are solved for now (Andresen predicted a 200% to 300% improvement on the nerwork)  Grin.

This means BTC transactions can increase at least 2x. I believe this is the reason for the BTC spike and only a few know about this since it has been released a few days ago. You can read more about it here:

http://bravenewcoin.com/news/segregated-witness-has-been-released-tackling-bitcoins-transaction-limit/
Nxtblg
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April 23, 2016, 11:16:52 PM
 #1152

I've recently checked their dapps and there are a lot of new ones so things are moving along. To be honest I'm not impressed with many of you saying ETH bubble popped...it's still above $7-8 so I think it's doing quite ok. It's logical if you think about it because there haven't been much news lately at all, so that's even more impressive.

You should have been lurking around the goldbug circuit during gold's 2001-2011 bull market. Every time gold pulled back after a huge run-up, from 2006 onward and perhaps earlier, there were lots of folks who sais the "gold bubble" had "popped." By the end of the last decade, that talk was actually a running joke of the gold bulls - lots like the early-adopter Bitcoiners joke about the umpity-eleven times that Bitcoin was declared dead.






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...INTRODUCING WAVES........
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yefi
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April 24, 2016, 12:47:44 AM
 #1153

All these dapps and yet gas consumption flat-lining since December, with avg. gas price trending down.
Yakamoto
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April 24, 2016, 12:55:18 AM
 #1154

ETH is doing ok, but it is definitely weaker now than it has been recently.

The thing is there are no interesting apps created by users that people want to take advantage of, and thus it continues to get circulated within the same community with little growth.

if someone comes up with something people really want to use, I can see the value slowly increasing, but right now it seems like it is being propped up by speculators rather than actual users interested in it. I could be wrong about that though.
Spoetnik
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April 24, 2016, 06:49:49 AM
 #1155

You still have not noticed that 100% of users that have shown interest in ETH are simply into it for the profit ?
What does that tell you ?

I appreciate your guys incessant "market analysis"
but it means fuck all when your so fucking stupid you can't see the the obvious and MOST important point.

adoption ..

Creating infinite new accounts and making one liners with grand predictions is only
going to fool the profiteer dregs for a limited time before they get bored and wander off
..looking for "profits" else where.

Wanna play the game ? Then learn the game.

What am i hinting at ?

You know how many times i have seen people bash a coin because it's boring ?

Take Litecoin for example.. it's great and it FUNCTIONS as intended (as a currency)
But it does not captivate the greedy babies.

They are far more interested in "Jiggle Daddy's Keys" coin.

FUD first & ask questions later™
Bought
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April 24, 2016, 07:36:02 AM
 #1156

Im at the point where im not sure if its the bullish trend of bitcoin thats causing a drop in eth price or if its just a normal market correction after being pumped so high. Time will tell now weather it continues to drop or holds steady/rises again.

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April 24, 2016, 02:55:49 PM
 #1157

ETH seems to be a  good investment. Though it has fallen in past fortnight but there is some potential in this altcoin, it has even reached upto a value of 0.05BTC and there are speculations that it might go back to that height. After ETH has solved some problems associated with bitcoins like it has provided much better divisibility as compared to bitcoin.
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April 24, 2016, 03:06:48 PM
 #1158

So now everybody know it is not about demand it is all about hype..
is always about hype, dont think Lisk or Waves are not the same thing , they just create something that you and me will probably never use in real life, the value of this thing is just determined by the person who has mostly volume of the coin, Hype is Hype all people here alrady know how the game works

yefi
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April 24, 2016, 03:22:34 PM
 #1159

ETH seems to be a  good investment. Though it has fallen in past fortnight but there is some potential in this altcoin, it has even reached upto a value of 0.05BTC and there are speculations that it might go back to that height. After ETH has solved some problems associated with bitcoins like it has provided much better divisibility as compared to bitcoin.

Bitcoin is divisible currently down to 100 millionth of a unit, and this limit can be increased ad infinitum if necessary.

Also 0.05... are you just plucking figures from thin air?
Tacalt
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April 24, 2016, 05:55:35 PM
 #1160

ETH seems to be a  good investment. Though it has fallen in past fortnight but there is some potential in this altcoin, it has even reached upto a value of 0.05BTC and there are speculations that it might go back to that height. After ETH has solved some problems associated with bitcoins like it has provided much better divisibility as compared to bitcoin.

If the smart contract using Etheruem becomes very popular, then Ethereum can be very useful, the price will rise.
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