Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[soy]

I'm jonesing for a new miner.

[Searing]

I've been trying to determine if the next unconfirmed batch of Jupiters will be worth buying and want to share my estimates. Please keep in mind that my goal is to be somewhere between pessimistic and realistic.

Assumptions:

• Next batch will be delivered by the first week of February 2014
• Hash rate will by 670GH/s
• Difficulty will increase at 25% per adjustment for the lifetime of the Jupiter
• Shipping costs will be $136.80 (based on previous Jupiter shipments)
• Power supply will cost $200
• Power consumption will be 900W @ $0.15/kWh
• $700/BTC
• No VAT or customs fees (I'm in the US)

Using the above assumptions, the next batch of Jupiters should generate 8.52 BTC before becoming unprofitable based on this calculator. Subtract the electric costs and the remaining BTC will be worth $5340.95 @ $700/BTC.

tl;dr - I think the next batch of Jupiters need to be priced below $4,995 to be profitable.

my guess is the price will be $3500....any more then that and KNC does its usual miracle and gets the Neptune out beginning of april ..can't see it as worth it...

also was pointed out to me by phoenix1969 that the jupiters if they are flushed into the wild are "in stock" ie no refunds likely on those if they can flush them out the door..ie can't change your mind probably if you buy them 1st week of jan and they come out last week of feb or some such

my 2c worth
Searing

p.s. but yeah at 3500 bucks before feb 1st I'd be tempted....

[Searing]

nope, i'ts a new batch...
and no word on the Jupiters yet.... wish there was...   sry


But as a follow-up on Searing's Bank episodes....  I just had a similar problem.
and it has nothing to do with KNC... They did all they could and were absolutely correct in telling me my bank information was wrong!
Indeed, not all banks in USA are sliced the same.......    
My "Credit Union" boasts about the ability to do international transfers,
yet cannot provide me with a BIC/SWIFT code... I talked with 3 different reps
and one branch manager...  and they literally told me on every call that the routing & transit numbers are all they have besides my account number.
I told them they are literally forcing me to bank elsewhere....   bye!
The very first other bank I called literally was giggling on the other end when I told her the story....
We both came to the same conclusion....  Any bank in Hawaii that doesn't have a BIC/SWIFT code for
international banking is really limiting their ability to do business,
being we are an island in the middle of the Pacific, that's sad....   (and is actually in non-compliance with ISO 9362, and ISO 3166 for financial institutions...) 
Searing had a similar problem stateside he posted in here.....  and helped me decide to take the next step for future instances... thx by the way....

yeah we talked on Skype our  conclusion is chase down a small or commercial bank....they have to try harder...my situation was the big bank branch that lost my wire xfer for 3 weeks 'says' they would xfer in usd but being a "big bank" they had a auto convert setup for local currency of wherever the wire xfer was going (I guess usd beats local currency every time) so they could make a few bucks in the currency conversion....of course the Swedish bank kept expecting the usa bank to see it should be usd so there it sat...limbo 3 weeks!

went to a local small bank..that I had a small savings account at... they we're dumbfounded it was such a big deal and  also giggled..took the girl 10min was confirmed sent and received in 1hr and confirmed in less then 8hts and that was proably because the swedes woke up...less to do with the xfer..only annoying thing she had to do was put up with me asking every 5min (this is usd only right? ...this seems awful fast ..did you get everything etc)

so .....get your ducks in a row go to a commercial bank or a small bank and look into all this stuff ahead of time for the next time knc springs stuff on us.... and ask a bunch of questions..if in like my case it takes 2 branch managers and a teller 4hrs to do your xfer or even 1 hour cancel it take your money an "run" to a commercial or smaller more full service bank.....big diff between big bank "branches" and actual banks with actual bank managers on call...also make them call up to line to their wire xfer dept if any doubts on ahything...and check double check they do the simple stuff like actually put your order on the wire xfer sheet as they claimed to have done (in my flubbed order did not even manage that) ...I should not complain KNC did finally get me my money back from the failed 1st bank attempt so I got the 2nd wire xfer with different small bank thru (thank you Emilia cole sales saved my butt)

also in my case my big bank of 30yrs had me do 2 forms or ID and fill out a bunch of forms I'm not a terrorist etc (you know how hard it is not to put "bitcoin terrorist" down on that line..,must resist!) the small bank I had a puny savings account in that I went with that did the wire xfer (the 2nd sucessful attempt) in usd in 10min was like "heh your a customer don't sweat it" I filled out zip and no ID etc

anyway commercial bank or a small bank that works for it...... but find this stuff out ahead of time......would have saved 3k on my 2nd Neptune because of my these yahoos on the 1st bank not knowing what they we're doing and had to do 2nd batch due to missing deadline.....anyway 'be prepared" I doubt this is the last time knc will spring "upgrades' on us...and me being in the Phoenix1969 "I drunk the Kool-Aid" camp of bitcoin hoarding.....plan to keep my bitcoins thank you very much (if it all goes boom less hassle then cats  in my old age)

live an learn

also only do wire xfer or btc with www.kncminer.com the others ASIC COMPANIES imho  take your $$$ and don't deliver in any decent timeline from what I can tell like BFL ..imho

learn by my mistake on this

Searing

[Phoenix1969]

I look upon the whole incident as an "omen", and ultimately decided to keep all 5 of the Neptune orders...  
But am still getting the bank account for future business ease....

[RickJamesBTC]

I look upon the whole incident as an "omen", and ultimately decided to keep all 5 of the Neptune orders...  
But am still getting the bank account for future business ease....

Stay strong brother. Don't sell out. With how well we did on Jupiters, it is worth the risk. As long as you are playing with the house's money, you're good to go.

[Phoenix1969]

I look upon the whole incident as an "omen", and ultimately decided to keep all 5 of the Neptune orders...  
But am still getting the bank account for future business ease....

Stay strong brother. Don't sell out. With how well we did on Jupiters, it is worth the risk. As long as you are playing with the house's money, you're good to go.

Oh, it would have been offing one or two late Neps for the upcoming jupiters.... lol  
No way would I part with any of my 3 Batch one Customer appreciation Nep's... yet    (evil grin)

[RickJamesBTC]

I look upon the whole incident as an "omen", and ultimately decided to keep all 5 of the Neptune orders...  
But am still getting the bank account for future business ease....

Stay strong brother. Don't sell out. With how well we did on Jupiters, it is worth the risk. As long as you are playing with the house's money, you're good to go.

Oh, it would have been offing one or two late Neps for the upcoming jupiters.... lol  
No way would I part with any of my 3 Batch one Customer appreciation Nep's... yet    (evil grin)

Ohh, spent all your coin on those huh?  I wish we knew when these jupiters were shipping, I'd like to buy them now!! 

[Searing]

I look upon the whole incident as an "omen", and ultimately decided to keep all 5 of the Neptune orders...  
But am still getting the bank account for future business ease....

Stay strong brother. Don't sell out. With how well we did on Jupiters, it is worth the risk. As long as you are playing with the house's money, you're good to go.

Oh, it would have been offing one or two late Neps for the upcoming jupiters.... lol  
No way would I part with any of my 3 Batch one Customer appreciation Nep's... yet    (evil grin)

Ohh, spent all your coin on those huh?  I wish we knew when these jupiters were shipping, I'd like to buy them now!!  

yep at $3500.00 a Jupiter and if I could get them in "hand" by Feb 1st and .....hopefully..this is true I can do a 'wire xfer" (I have coin just too stubborn to sell them).... now that I have a bank that actually knows what they are doing to do so....so I'm set...$$$ in the bank...wire xfer lady informed she will maybe soon see my smiling face again (by the by you start tossing about 10k 20k and such wire xfers about ..and the bank people are 'very very nice" to me now? ? go figure???

I got 2 brothers...I drank the koolaid...1 brother we kinda forced the koolaid in the other brother with more money then sense is way past me in the comfort zone of getting more neptunes. drank too much of the Kool-Aid......it is a zoo (going home for thanksgiving....'hmmmm don't tell brothers about bitcoin.....and I have at that time 35k in coin.......yeah iand it takes off in 2014..yep I be  ...dead.....do tell borthers about bitcoin ...and it tanks sometime in spring . yeah dead....screwed either way so told them)

so at the above price and time line I'm in for 3 jupiters....(could/should probably get more but one of us 3 should act like an adult..and have 'some' caution I mean we have 1 batch 1 Neptune 1 batch 2 Neptune and maybe the above....plus my orig Jupiter (smug bastard I am) ..you guys with 'wives" as a self replicating 'governor" on excessive bitcoin miner purchases have it easy!......

(if this ends badly I will never hear the end of it....chump or champ it is always thus in my life)

Searing

p. s. I assume it is not BTC only? anyone have any clarification on this...if BTC only ..I'll just punt the 3 jupiters back....speculating fiat I'm ok with at this time bitcoin...er not so much in that I'm 'hoping'  soemtime in jan 2014 with the talks of major Chinese exchanges and some give/take and conditions Chinese $$$ will again flow to the exchanges..if that happens 'ka boom'

hey a 'boy can dream' right?

[faetos]

I look upon the whole incident as an "omen", and ultimately decided to keep all 5 of the Neptune orders... 
But am still getting the bank account for future business ease....

Stay strong brother. Don't sell out. With how well we did on Jupiters, it is worth the risk. As long as you are playing with the house's money, you're good to go.

Oh, it would have been offing one or two late Neps for the upcoming jupiters.... lol 
No way would I part with any of my 3 Batch one Customer appreciation Nep's... yet    (evil grin)

Ohh, spent all your coin on those huh?  I wish we knew when these jupiters were shipping, I'd like to buy them now!! 

yep at $3500.00 a Jupiter and if I could get them in "hand" by Feb 1st and .....hopefully..this is true I can do a 'wire xfer" (I have coin just too stubborn to sell them).... now that I have a bank that actually knows what they are doing to do so....so I'm set...$$$ in the bank...wire xfer lady informed she will maybe soon see my smiling face again (by the by you start tossing about 10k 20k and such wire xfers about ..and the bank people are 'very very nice" to me now? ? go figure???

I got 2 brothers...I drank the koolaid...1 brother we kinda forced the koolaid in the other brother with more money then sense is way past me in the comfort zone of getting more neptunes. drank too much of the Kool-Aid......it is a zoo (going home for thanksgiving....'hmmmm don't tell brothers about bitcoin.....and I have at that time 35k in coin.......yeah iand it takes off in 2014..yep I be  ...dead.....do tell borthers about bitcoin ...and it tanks sometime in spring . yeah dead....screwed either way so told them)

so at the above price and time line I'm in for 3 jupiters....(could/should probably get more but one of us 3 should act like an adult..and have 'some' caution I mean we have 1 batch 1 Neptune 1 batch 2 Neptune and maybe the above....plus my orig Jupiter (smug bastard I am) ..you guys with 'wives" as a self replicating 'governor" on excessive bitcoin miner purchases have it easy!......

(if this ends badly I will never hear the end of it....chump or champ it is always thus in my life)

Searing

p. s. I assume it is not BTC only? anyone have any clarification on this...if BTC only ..I'll just punt the 3 jupiters back....speculating fiat I'm ok with at this time bitcoin...er not so much in that I'm 'hoping'  soemtime in jan 2014 with the talks of major Chinese exchanges and some give/take and conditions Chinese $$$ will again flow to the exchanges..if that happens 'ka boom'

hey a 'boy can dream' right?

Searing, you have some of the craziest posts sometimes.

[vesperwillow]

Whynot just buy coins instead of doing a bank wire? A lot easier.

[xstr8guy]

Whynot just buy coins instead of doing a bank wire? A lot easier.

It's not that easy to deposit money in an exchange to buy bitcoin.  A wire is much less difficult.  I personally just buy mining gear with the coins I earn.  If I don't have enough coin, then I don't buy.

[vesperwillow]

Whynot just buy coins instead of doing a bank wire? A lot easier.

It's not that easy to deposit money in an exchange to buy bitcoin.  A wire us much less difficult.  I personally just buy mining gear with the coins I earn.  If I don't have enough coin, then I don't buy.

I log in to coinbase, input how much I want to buy and press a button. Within 2-3 days (quicker depending on verification level) it's in my wallet. What's easier is buying from the BTC I have, and using the Coinbase amount to resupply. Baddabing, you're done. Instant transfer, just the way BTC was meant.

So yeah, it really is that easy. I suppose if you use other exchange methods perhaps it's more difficult.

[vesperwillow]

I was talking in reference to the folks looking to buy into the new batches opening up this week, as some had expressed concerns.

[Phoenix1969]

I was talking in reference to the folks looking to buy into the new batches opening up this week, as some had expressed concerns.

Any particular reason you think they are opening up this week?
Just curious..

[vesperwillow]

I was talking in reference to the folks looking to buy into the new batches opening up this week, as some had expressed concerns.

Any particular reason you think they are opening up this week?
Just curious..

Call it a strong hunch, nothing more. Whether it's this week or next or 3 weeks.. folks should be prepared. Better early than late.

[r1senfa17h]

I've been trying to determine if the next unconfirmed batch of Jupiters will be worth buying and want to share my estimates. Please keep in mind that my goal is to be somewhere between pessimistic and realistic.

Assumptions:

• Next batch will be delivered by the first week of February 2014
• Hash rate will by 670GH/s
• Difficulty will increase at 25% per adjustment for the lifetime of the Jupiter
• Shipping costs will be $136.80 (based on previous Jupiter shipments)
• Power supply will cost $200
• Power consumption will be 900W @ $0.15/kWh
• $700/BTC
• No VAT or customs fees (I'm in the US)

Using the above assumptions, the next batch of Jupiters should generate 8.52 BTC before becoming unprofitable based on this calculator. Subtract the electric costs and the remaining BTC will be worth $5340.95 @ $700/BTC.

tl;dr - I think the next batch of Jupiters need to be priced below $4,995 to be profitable.

my guess is the price will be $3500....any more then that and KNC does its usual miracle and gets the Neptune out beginning of april ..can't see it as worth it...

also was pointed out to me by phoenix1969 that the jupiters if they are flushed into the wild are "in stock" ie no refunds likely on those if they can flush them out the door..ie can't change your mind probably if you buy them 1st week of jan and they come out last week of feb or some such

my 2c worth
Searing

p.s. but yeah at 3500 bucks before feb 1st I'd be tempted....

I'm confident they'll be cheaper than the $5k November pricing. The upgrade modules were $950 each, which would have placed the cheapest Jupiter equivalent at $3,800 plus case/fans/controller/BBB. I'm expecting the next Jupiters to be below that cost. I would be highly surprised if they were priced over $3995.

[Searing]

Quote from: r1senfa17h on December 27, 2013, 02:22:17 PM

[/quote]
I'm confident they'll be cheaper than the $5k November pricing. The upgrade modules were $950 each, which would have placed the cheapest Jupiter equivalent at $3,800 plus case/fans/controller/BBB. I'm expecting the next Jupiters to be below that cost. I would be highly surprised if they were priced over $3995.
[/quote]

Ack! 4k is imho TOO MUCH may just punt and hope for the usual KNC early delivery to save me on the Neptunes on order.... $3.5k maybe be my max on this adventure in upgrades.
 
Searing




Quote from: faetos on Today at 12:55:20 AM

[/quote]
Searing, you have some of the craziest posts sometimes. Smiley
[/quote]

Well if I was 'sane' I sure as heck would not be here..nor in bitcoin probably....would have my $$$ in a sock....

Searing

I was talking in reference to the folks looking to buy into the new batches opening up this week, as some had expressed concerns.

ack!...this week.....the swedes are "Fiends" at making me do these decisions in the middle of a 'holiday' week (of course if after jan 1st all you married guys (and me) can blame it on too much drink from new years..there you go instant excuse to run amuck on knc miners....

a week..crap...now I have to think hard on if to do this...(brain hurts bitcoin hard ugh)

Searing

[opentoe]

Yea, we were told to hold some coins and all that. Where are those Jupiters? By the time they annouce them, they will be $1000 each.

[smoothrunnings]

Is there anyone from Canada who has bought from KnC Miner here? I am curious to know if KnC Miner has their own broker or if UPS uses their own, basically I am interested in what the fee was for people on the last batch of miner who had them shipped to Canada?

It's nice to see the Neptune's drop by 3 or 4k.

[smoothrunnings]

wht sells again?

like i say knc is kidding with us and our money

where network protection

where is 3000$ more other batch now is 10000

3600 machines

maybe are right calculation by other member we only get 7 bitcoins

mining is out control

You have to keep in mind that with all smaller companies there is always going to be some kind of overhead operating and R&D cost that is included in the first release (or in this case first batch) of the newer product. Once they have a solid understanding how everything is going to work the newer releases end up being cheaper to produce as they don't need to acquire more moneys for R&D and their operating cost. Is this a bad business practice? No, it's normal business practices for a copy this size, if they were the size of IBM say then yes it would be bad business practice as they would be able to acquire the costs from other products and services they offer.