Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[AussieHash]

Well bitfury has been selling 3000 chips on a reel since August. BFL, Avalon, cointerra and HF are also said to sell chips.
No reason KnC couldn't have sold several thousand chips to private buyers.

[AussiePete]

arousedrhino  ( with respect)

KNC  made the Protection Statement   to re assure  their customer base , so we would purchase more Miners from them . This statement to me is a promise that if I would take a risk\investment through KNC, they would  make decisions (as in releasing more miners to me ) in my best interest , so my  investments would be protected .

                          ...........................................................

We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

                           
As well KNC said

As it looks like our struggling competition may eventually ship before our Network protection period has finished, we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock.
If we do have more items to place in the shop for our 28nm range, we will announce this via one of our newsletters which will contain the time and date that they will go on sale. So keep some coins handy as we expect them to go quick.

                               .......................................................

When any Business makes these assurances and I do invest or re-invest because of that promise , I expect that business to keep their word ...........or face some conserquece (all investors hate being played)

There doesn't need to be any Confirmation.

 Just let KNC keep their word .........That would be the smart move

Pete

[faetos]

if KnC sells Jupiters now it would be like a huge ..l.. to everyone that bought a neptune.

[vesperwillow]

Sounds like for the "first time", they're floundering on their word. A month ago they confirmed they would in fact be selling Jupiters by now (actually, by now they should've been shipped). Now they're quiet.

Either they're releasing the Neptune much earlier than anticipated, like next month, or they're simply going to ignore their word.

Where did they confirm that they would be selling Jupiters by now. KNC never made such a statement so you can't hold them to that statement.

I'm only going what I kept in my notes, an email someone posted. Might be wrong. Then again, they may have gotten folks' attention away from buying competing hash by doing this, which could've been a side benefit of the statement all along.

if KnC sells Jupiters now it would be like a huge ..l.. to everyone that bought a neptune.

Jupiters in 30 days vs Neptune in 90-180 days? No.

KNC was just quoted at CES saying they are responsible for 70% of the network right now... 

Unless they manufactured 14,000 Jupiters, I'd say that's bullshit.

See my math in a previous post.

Wasn't their original order book in the 13,000 range for all products? They had a certain number of orders for batch 1 private customers, and a separate batch for corporate/large-number purchasers, didn't they? I remember doing the math on this and that, at the time batch 1 would've been equal to like 30 or 40% of the total hashpower.

[AussiePete]

faetos

I bought 2 Neptunes and I plan on buying more in time ........To me this is a continued long term investment that will continue to probably go on for  at least the next 10 years or so . The only way to protect yourself from the diff rise is to continue to re-invest as you can. My prediction is that big business is starting to take notice at mining investment concept now ,  since it seems the value of BTC   is staying  above $500 per btc

So if the question is about "Protection" the only answer is re-invest in quality miners from business that want to protect their reputation (as much as they can) .

Pete

[arousedrhino]

arousedrhino  ( with respect)

KNC  made the Protection Statement   to re assure  their customer base , so we would purchase more Miners from them . This statement to me is a promise that if I would take a risk\investment through KNC, they would  make decisions (as in releasing more miners to me ) in my best interest , so my  investments would be protected .

                          ...........................................................

We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

                           
As well KNC said

As it looks like our struggling competition may eventually ship before our Network protection period has finished, we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock.
If we do have more items to place in the shop for our 28nm range, we will announce this via one of our newsletters which will contain the time and date that they will go on sale. So keep some coins handy as we expect them to go quick.

                               .......................................................

When any Business makes these assurances and I do invest or re-invest because of that promise , I expect that business to keep their word ...........or face some conserquece (all investors hate being played)

There doesn't need to be any Confirmation.

 Just let KNC keep their word .........That would be the smart move

Pete

The problem is they made it vague large amounts could be anywhere from 2PH to 100PH so no matter how much hashing power is added you will never be able to hold them responsible for upholding that statement. If they had said if someone adds X hashing power to the network or the diff reaches x before feb 2014 then that would be a statement we would expect them to keep their word on and we could hold them accountable for not keeping that promise but they never actually promised us anything so there will never be any way to confirm that they did not uphold that statement. They can say the increase wasn't large.

[AussiePete]

arousedrhino

I see your point

I actually believe KNC is a smart and reputable  company who wants to protect their reputation ,especially in the minds of  their long term customers\investors are concerned. I dont think they were trying to be misleading or being stupid when they made such statements and I think they will sell some Jupiters soon .

KNC can see that some of there original investors are starting to buy miners else where because of the diff rise continous . Selling more hash power now is smart business and I believe it protects us ("Us" being  their customer base )  I personally  believe its in every investors interest to re-invest asap  (Investors as  in KNC products investors)

Just in case KNC are getting double minded in their decisions , I think we should  let them know .........and Im sure their listening

Pete

[merv77]

when does Neptune refund option end? 
it is when they start production, no? 
When is that likely to happen? This week, next week, week after?

What I am getting at is when the option for refunds stop/end, that's when we might see Jupiters for sale again.

I think that KNC are not going to sell Jupiters because of some existing customers started asking for Neptune refunds in order to buy Jupiters.

I also think that if there was no option to refund Neptunes then they would have gone ahead and sold more Jupiters.

Didn't a few guys here say they were going to refund their Neptunes to buy more or some Jupiters?  This is what I remember just after KNC announced that they were going to sell Jupiters again and for us to keep some bitcoins handy. 

If I was in this business I would stop selling Jupiters also because of the fear of Neptune refunds.  They would make more profit if they just did offer them to us and sell them off privately.

This is just my opinion.

[AussiePete]

Merv

Good points

Bottom line , we the long term re-investors will choose our re purchasers\manufacturers based on the company that producers the best machines at the best times . KNC is right now is that company . Soon we will have proof of other companies  products and services . We will study and weigh up different reports .

The company which makes  better decisions , products and keeping to their promises (without being missleading) in the long run will gain a bigger market share of the sales and therefore greater profit margin in the long term  . Which is basicly is  why we too are investing   ......bottom line greater  profitability in the long term .

I believe KNC have a long term view  in mind as well as short term and they know we do as well ...........The long term profitability is getting as much hashing power in quality machines with a reputable manufacture.........those who acheive that ( on both sides purchaser and manufacturer) They will be the ones to be the most profitable .  

I agree, KNC have to weigh up both sides  , but I think the long term view out weighs the short term view

Pete

[loshia]

Merv

Good points

Bottom line , we the long term re-investors will choose our re purchasers\manufacturers based on the company that producers the best machines at the best times . KNC is right now is that company . Soon we will have proof of other companies products products and services . We will study and weigh up different reports .

The company which makes  better decisions , products and keeping to their promises (without being missleading) in the long run will gain a bigger market share of the sales and therefore greater profit margin in the long term  . Which is basicly is  why we too are investing as  ......bottom line greater  profitability in the long term .

I believe KNC have a long term view  in mind as well as short term and they know we do as well ...........The long term profitability is getting as much hashing power in quality machines with a reputable manufacture.........those who acheive that ( on both sides purchaser and manufacturer) They will be the ones to be the most profitable .  

I agree, KNC have to weigh up both sides  , but I think the long term view out weighs the short term view

Pete

Nice said.
I can add that in my thinking there is no such thing as long term profit. Hash rate will go up as long Manufacturing costs for a single asic chip will not pay out. When that time comes all of us will use long term thinking. My long term thinking currently is as flows:

If i can buy a product for x btc (immediate delivery - in theory) and if  i can mine back x btc for a next 3 mouths  assuming at least 25% diff increase each 10 days I am in. Otherwise i am pass. With my thinking there is no such product currently on sale so i am enjoing what i do have and winter also
What i can say that for the next year or two i will watch the show from the first line but i will not participate

[pvnamk19]

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

[Searing]

KNC was just quoted at CES saying they are responsible for 70% of the network right now... 

that same report also says that BFL has shipped (well read for yourself)

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/7/5285242/the-bleeding-edge-in-bitcoin-mining-hardware-comes-to-ces


says also that BFL has shipped 45,000 cards (implied monarch cards)

BFL how thru using the media (bad reporting) to make you look better at CES then KNC

45,000 cards my a*s

(BFL is like ASIC NOOB porn...very pretty site...lots of pics.....do a google search noob do a google search...on bfl first!)

Searing

[de_ixie]

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art.... 

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.

[merv77]

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

don't get me wrong... I never wanted refund, and never asked for one.  I have only one Neptune ordered and paid for in first customer only batch and I wouldn't want to lose that.
I just remember someone (or two) here actually posted just after announcement of 'Jupiters going on sale by KNC and asking us to keep coins handy' that they had put in for a refund of one or two of their multiple Neptune orders.  I think that's what caused KNC to rethink and retract new sales of Jupiters.  These guys know what I'm talking about (I'm going to mention  ) and even post here about keeping us posted about outcome of the refund. 

I don't really care now, even thou I would of bought a Jupiter or 2 if they were to be sold again.   I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we're gonna see Jupiters any more. 

Oh well easy come easy go.

[merv77]

.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art.... 

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.

This exactly what I mean, you think KNC will sell Jupiters now with a comment like this...  No chance...

If I were KNC I would reject anyone buying Jupiters that asked for refund of Neptunes.. full stop..  You think they are stupid and want to lose money

[btcspender]

.... Only a question of liquidity - Cash flow management is not a higher art....  

I think KnC will exactly face that problem - The second they offer Jupiters (which I doubt they will do) - they are going to face significant amount of Neptune refund requests. At least me - I would dump all my "somewhen" in Q1/Q2 Neptunes for "in-hand" Jupiters.

Jupiter is a proven product - Neptune not.

This exactly what I mean, you think KNC will sell Jupiters now with a comment like this...  No chance...

If I were KNC I would reject anyone buying Jupiters that asked for refund of Neptunes.. full stop..  You think they are stupid and want to lose money

But also the more money people make in the short term off jupiters the more neptumes they will sell in the longterm. Also depending on how long they announced selling before opening orders it may be a futile exercise to get a neptune return if its going to take 4-5 days to see money jupiter orders may only last a few hours/days depending on stock level.

Edit: I do hope they make any announcement soon though AMT 1200ghs mid march delivery close jan 9. Without any jupiters that may be my earliest chance to get a decent amount of ghs to combat difficulty

[nightengale]

Have been running some scenarios on difficulty... Am getting a little nervous about profitability. HF & CT haven't released anything, yet the difficulty keeps steadily going up... Must be a dark horse in China or something. Anyone else have any perspective on breaking even with these?

[AussiePete]

Merv

Well said

Its a 50\50 call . I actually said to a mate who is a miner " If I was KNC I would never had put out that "Protection Statement"............but it was written to build consumer confidence .........and some people,  I expect , purchased the 2nd Jupiters sale which brought in over $5 million usd to KNC .

From my studies, no one on this forum requested any kind of promises ..........but the business decision was made ........statement given , mid July

Then came  ........."keep handy some btc coins ..........they will go fast ........hint hint ........

KNC dont owe me anything .............they have helped me make $$.... so thankyou KNC ........what we are really talking about is "Customer Protection Share" in 30 days or in 90 days plus ..............Which decision is our Best Protection ........my calculations according to this continous rising diff ......Sell me more



de_ixie

.............Hi ...... Ive got 2 Neptunes coming..................and there's No Way I'm going to let anyone else get them ...............(I would lose money) .............But if KNC wants to protect my existing hashing power ................then sell me a Jupiter .......pretty please

Pete

[btcspender]

.............Hi ...... Ive got 2 Neptunes coming..................and there's No Way I'm going to let anyone else get them ...............(I would lose money) .............But if KNC wants to protect my existing hashing power ................then sell me a Jupiter .......pretty please

Pete

I concur
sell me a Jupiter .......pretty pretty please with sugar on top

[r1senfa17h]

@Merv77:
When you get your Neptune refund (in $), new Jupiters will be sold out (almost 100% if Knc announces today and starts selling tomorrow).
Do you want to do that?

Cheers,

don't get me wrong... I never wanted refund, and never asked for one.  I have only one Neptune ordered and paid for in first customer only batch and I wouldn't want to lose that.
I just remember someone (or two) here actually posted just after announcement of 'Jupiters going on sale by KNC and asking us to keep coins handy' that they had put in for a refund of one or two of their multiple Neptune orders.  I think that's what caused KNC to rethink and retract new sales of Jupiters.  These guys know what I'm talking about (I'm going to mention  ) and even post here about keeping us posted about outcome of the refund.  

I don't really care now, even thou I would of bought a Jupiter or 2 if they were to be sold again.   I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we're gonna see Jupiters any more.  

Oh well easy come easy go.

Yep, I completely agree with all of your points so far. I'm still waiting for the wire transfer to complete on that refund I asked for btw, which I realize has been slowed down by the holidays. If they release more Jupiters in the next 10 days, then I'd say it's already too late for anyone else hoping to refund Neptunes for Jupiters.

One of the biggest reasons I decided to ask for a refund on one of the three Neptunes is because of the power requirements. I hope they come to a decision either way soon and let us know. There are a couple other manufacturer's products I wouldn't mind trying, but I'd prefer to have more KnC.

KnC, please take my money before I give it to someone else!