Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Paladin69]

It doesn't make sense why they would.  They are hurting their own cash cow too otherwise.

Not if they think they can get away with it. For the record, there is already very compelling evidence ghash.io was abused to pull off double spend attacks:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.0

Now you may not have sympathy for the victim here,  being a gambling site accepting zero confirmation transactions, but if this is not reason enough for you to switch pools, honestly you deserve what it could lead to.

Playing devil's advocate more than anything.  I have been on BTC Guild for a while now.

[CYPER]

What GPU pulls 350W?

I run 7970/280X decently overclocked. They each pull 340-360 on a good day. More if you want to really squash your balls on the wall, I've had them pull 380 before.

KNC board uses 3x 12V circuits to carry up to 15A of current.

A GPU uses 6x 12V circuits to carry up to 23A of current.

Which one looks more to you?

Yes, I understand 3x5a=15a and 6x3.8a=23a.

Are you aware that the PCI-E slot provides 75W of the total power?
Are you using powered PCI-E risers?

When you answer these questions you will understand that each 12V circuit on the GPU cabling uses less that the KNC board

Yeah I'm aware of PCB design, and how the PCIx platform provides power. No, I don't use powered risers, all of the juice flows through the PCIE connectors, which means they flow more current than a normal setup.

You also should follow the conversation, specifically my ignored my question regarding pushing the KNC clock beyond stock to cause the wires to reach danger levels. Most 18AWG has a 4x-6x safety rating built in (depending on purity, oxygen content and sleeving)--even at 10amps they should be safe bundled together. Bundled @ 5amps (KNC design) they shouldn't be a danger.

KNC isn't loopy, which is why they knew they could use 18AWG for the boards.

This is why I proposed some airflow across them for anyone concerned about temps, and that they shouldn't be reaching such high temps anyhow unless something is wrong. Again, mine don't get near that, another reason I was asking about overclock.

Edit: My modules are running 145-155gh, the cable temps are 36.9C, the room is 26.7C. I have no form of cooling on the cables.

The bottom line is no GPU card can pull as much current per cable as a KNC board does.

I run banks of 7970 GPUs pulling up to 450w _EACH_... yeah, it adds up.

I highly doubt that. I have a 7970 myself, so can speak from experience. I've ran benchmarks @ 1340Mhz / 7600Mhz and 1.33V core which is a lot.

[vesperwillow]

The bottom line is no GPU card can pull as much current per cable as a KNC board does.

...

I highly doubt that. I have a 7970 myself, so can speak from experience. I've ran benchmarks @ 1340Mhz / 7600Mhz and 1.33V core which is a lot.

While I would agree a KNC module *per cable* will likely draw more current, I was originally pointing out I find it odd for them to be getting as warm as they are, ie, something must be up with the KNC module if it's not overclocked but drawing excessive amounts of current. I guess it could just be component variance.

Your experience, like mine, doesn't dictate everyone's. I've seen individual GPUs past 400, I've pushed mine to 380ish. I wouldn't find it impossible to see one in the mid 400's, just not the normal case. With the right cooling, MSI cards can take 3 hells' worth of beatings, as I'm sure some other cards can, especially when some of the cores start at 1.2905.

[Biffa]

From what I understand, 51%'ing a network does no harm unless the pool operator has bad intentions.

Why risk it though? What does ghash.io give you that BTCGuild or eligius doesnt?

[ImI]

From what I understand, 51%'ing a network does no harm unless the pool operator has bad intentions.

Why risk it though? What does ghash.io give you that BTCGuild or eligius doesnt?

BTCGuild = 3% Fee (Thats ALOT when it comes to bigger BTC amounts)
Eligius = due to some problems i seem to get there around 2% less than ghash.io

So it DOES matter where you mine.

Nevertheless it should be obv that its time to mine somewhere else regardless the performance.

[CYPER]

From what I understand, 51%'ing a network does no harm unless the pool operator has bad intentions.

Why risk it though? What does ghash.io give you that BTCGuild or eligius doesnt?

Compared to BTCGuild: 0% fees
Compared to Eligius: less variance

I started mining with them around 3am UK time on 03.01.2014, so in about 1 hour that will be exactly 1 week mining.
My average hashrate is 3200GH/s.
For that 1 week period I have mined 8.54603089BTC exactly (not counting the last 1 hour of the full 1 week), while the calculator says 7.94166635 BTC per week.
So (8.54603089/7.94166635)*100 = 107.6% luck
So all looks good.

[Biffa]

From what I understand, 51%'ing a network does no harm unless the pool operator has bad intentions.

Why risk it though? What does ghash.io give you that BTCGuild or eligius doesnt?

Compared to BTCGuild: 0% fees
Compared to Eligius: less variance

I started mining with them around 3am UK time on 03.01.2014, so in about 1 hour that will be exactly 1 week mining.
My average hashrate is 3200GH/s.
For that 1 week period I have mined 8.54603089BTC exactly (not counting the last 1 hour of the full 1 week), while the calculator says 7.94166635 BTC per week.
So (8.54603089/7.94166635)*100 = 107.6% luck
So all looks good.

Forgot about BTCGuilds fee Now I remember why I don't use them.

But Eligius has been fine for me, I don't have your 6 Jupiters worth of hash rate but its been pretty good on there for me compared to slush.

I've steered clear of ghash.io for ages because they were just too big.

[seanrarey]

What GPU pulls 350W?

I run 7970/280X decently overclocked. They each pull 340-360 on a good day. More if you want to really squash your balls on the wall, I've had them pull 380 before.

KNC board uses 3x 12V circuits to carry up to 15A of current.

A GPU uses 6x 12V circuits to carry up to 23A of current.

Which one looks more to you?

Yes, I understand 3x5a=15a and 6x3.8a=23a.

Are you aware that the PCI-E slot provides 75W of the total power?
Are you using powered PCI-E risers?

When you answer these questions you will understand that each 12V circuit on the GPU cabling uses less that the KNC board

Yeah I'm aware of PCB design, and how the PCIx platform provides power. No, I don't use powered risers, all of the juice flows through the PCIE connectors, which means they flow more current than a normal setup.

You also should follow the conversation, specifically my ignored my question regarding pushing the KNC clock beyond stock to cause the wires to reach danger levels. Most 18AWG has a 4x-6x safety rating built in (depending on purity, oxygen content and sleeving)--even at 10amps they should be safe bundled together. Bundled @ 5amps (KNC design) they shouldn't be a danger.

KNC isn't loopy, which is why they knew they could use 18AWG for the boards.

This is why I proposed some airflow across them for anyone concerned about temps, and that they shouldn't be reaching such high temps anyhow unless something is wrong. Again, mine don't get near that, another reason I was asking about overclock.

Edit: My modules are running 145-155gh, the cable temps are 36.9C, the room is 26.7C. I have no form of cooling on the cables.

The bottom line is no GPU card can pull as much current per cable as a KNC board does.

I run banks of 7970 GPUs pulling up to 450w _EACH_... yeah, it adds up.

I highly doubt that. I have a 7970 myself, so can speak from experience. I've ran benchmarks @ 1340Mhz / 7600Mhz and 1.33V core which is a lot.

Wow.

Mr Cypher, any experienced GPU miner will tell you that a tacked 7970 will pull more then 400watts.  I tend to a substantial GPU farm on an hourly basis (it now mines LTC). 


... so you are simply wrong.  move on.

[merv77]

From what I understand, 51%'ing a network does no harm unless the pool operator has bad intentions.

Why risk it though? What does ghash.io give you that BTCGuild or eligius doesnt?

Compared to BTCGuild: 0% fees
Compared to Eligius: less variance

I started mining with them around 3am UK time on 03.01.2014, so in about 1 hour that will be exactly 1 week mining.
My average hashrate is 3200GH/s.
For that 1 week period I have mined 8.54603089BTC exactly (not counting the last 1 hour of the full 1 week), while the calculator says 7.94166635 BTC per week.
So (8.54603089/7.94166635)*100 = 107.6% luck
So all looks good.

that's a bit greedy.. you'd rather risk the bitcoin network and go against Shatoshi Nakamoto's design just for a little extra coins.  

even ghash.io has admitted that they are a threat to the bitcoin network and will make good... but still there are a few people that just don't care

[CYPER]

From what I understand, 51%'ing a network does no harm unless the pool operator has bad intentions.

Why risk it though? What does ghash.io give you that BTCGuild or eligius doesnt?

Compared to BTCGuild: 0% fees
Compared to Eligius: less variance

I started mining with them around 3am UK time on 03.01.2014, so in about 1 hour that will be exactly 1 week mining.
My average hashrate is 3200GH/s.
For that 1 week period I have mined 8.54603089BTC exactly (not counting the last 1 hour of the full 1 week), while the calculator says 7.94166635 BTC per week.
So (8.54603089/7.94166635)*100 = 107.6% luck
So all looks good.

that's a bit greedy.. you'd rather risk the bitcoin network and go against Shatoshi Nakamoto's design just for a little extra coins.  

even ghash.io has admitted that they are a threat to the bitcoin network and will make good... but still there are a few people that just don't care

Ghash.io is far from having 50% of the network, but yet people freak out.
Obviously it is impossible to predict their exact share as this is based on previously solved blocks and luck, but roughly it is around 40% currently, which is far from 50%.

According to http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ total hashrate is close to 16PH/s
Ghash.io has 4.7PH/s
That's less than 30%

If they get really close to 50% then I will surely move out.

[DPoS]

If they get really close to 50% then I will surely move out.

all Hail cyper for saving us

 

[merv77]

From what I understand, 51%'ing a network does no harm unless the pool operator has bad intentions.

Why risk it though? What does ghash.io give you that BTCGuild or eligius doesnt?

Compared to BTCGuild: 0% fees
Compared to Eligius: less variance

I started mining with them around 3am UK time on 03.01.2014, so in about 1 hour that will be exactly 1 week mining.
My average hashrate is 3200GH/s.
For that 1 week period I have mined 8.54603089BTC exactly (not counting the last 1 hour of the full 1 week), while the calculator says 7.94166635 BTC per week.
So (8.54603089/7.94166635)*100 = 107.6% luck
So all looks good.

that's a bit greedy.. you'd rather risk the bitcoin network and go against Shatoshi Nakamoto's design just for a little extra coins.  

even ghash.io has admitted that they are a threat to the bitcoin network and will make good... but still there are a few people that just don't care

Ghash.io is far from having 50% of the network, but yet people freak out.
Obviously it is impossible to predict their exact share as this is based on previously solved blocks and luck, but roughly it is around 40% currently, which is far from 50%.

According to http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ total hashrate is close to 16PH/s
Ghash.io has 4.7PH/s
That's less than 30%

If they get really close to 50% then I will surely move out.

I hope you hold up to your word.  Any way you seem to be doing well your 3TH plus mining farm

the reason they fell back from 42% to now 39% is because there's been a few miners pulling out for the reason of protecting the bitcoin network.

[organofcorti]

...
the reason they fell back from 42% to now 39% is because there's been a few miners pulling out for the reason of protecting the bitcoin network.
...

I haven't yet checked, but at a guess I'd say that could easily be due to variance. A larger drop over a longer time period might be indicative though.

[opentoe]

I just hope we get any announcement either way I have coin waiting for jupiter orders and if they announce no jups some coin will go on one or two more neptunes and some spread across other companies. I just want to hear anything from them.

This is exactly what they wanted you to do with those "handy coins".

[DPoS]

...
the reason they fell back from 42% to now 39% is because there's been a few miners pulling out for the reason of protecting the bitcoin network.
...

I haven't yet checked, but at a guess I'd say that could easily be due to variance. A larger drop over a longer time period might be indicative though.

what about that ever growning 'unknown'?   That could work with ghash to do the 51% deed correct?

why is so much hashing listed as unknown anyway?

[organofcorti]

...
the reason they fell back from 42% to now 39% is because there's been a few miners pulling out for the reason of protecting the bitcoin network.
...

I haven't yet checked, but at a guess I'd say that could easily be due to variance. A larger drop over a longer time period might be indicative though.

what about that ever growning 'unknown'?   That could work with ghash to do the 51% deed correct?

I do my own tracking, and unknown is only about 80 blocks per week. A good deal of it uses the same gen address, so it's unlikely that ghash would use that if they were being tricky.

why is so much hashing listed as unknown anyway?

Because whoever it is that is doing the tracking your referring to isn't using all possible data. I'm using coinbase sigs, known gen addresses, and pool websites (where available). You put it all together and you get better tracking than blockchain.info.

For example I can track Deepbit properly, and also bitparking and some others that confuse blockchain.info. It also means that if an unknown has used the same gen address for a long time, I can track that too. There are known unknowns (gen address and nothing else) and unknown unknowns (no coinbase sig and no record of gen address being used more than once). In total, all unknowns rarely get as high at 10%, although this may have changed recently.

Once I finish the current upgrade I'll post more accurate block stats somewhere.

[merv77]

Thanks organofcorti,
I'll be looking forward to seeing your detailed stats
Cheers

[DPoS]

Thanks organofcorti,
I'll be looking forward to seeing your detailed stats
Cheers

same here

[JimiQ84]

...
the reason they fell back from 42% to now 39% is because there's been a few miners pulling out for the reason of protecting the bitcoin network.
...

I haven't yet checked, but at a guess I'd say that could easily be due to variance. A larger drop over a longer time period might be indicative though.

what about that ever growning 'unknown'?   That could work with ghash to do the 51% deed correct?

I do my own tracking, and unknown is only about 80 blocks per week. A good deal of it uses the same gen address, so it's unlikely that ghash would use that if they were being tricky.

why is so much hashing listed as unknown anyway?

Because whoever it is that is doing the tracking your referring to isn't using all possible data. I'm using coinbase sigs, known gen addresses, and pool websites (where available). You put it all together and you get better tracking than blockchain.info.

For example I can track Deepbit properly, and also bitparking and some others that confuse blockchain.info. It also means that if an unknown has used the same gen address for a long time, I can track that too. There are known unknowns (gen address and nothing else) and unknown unknowns (no coinbase sig and no record of gen address being used more than once). In total, all unknowns rarely get as high at 10%, although this may have changed recently.

Once I finish the current upgrade I'll post more accurate block stats somewhere.

Sorry for derailing thread, but huge part of unknown is 100th mine (currently hashing at about 500TH/s)

[astutiumRob]

BTCGuild = 3% Fee (Thats ALOT when it comes to bigger BTC amounts)
Eligius = due to some problems i seem to get there around 2% less than ghash.io
So it DOES matter where you mine.

I get just under 4% less 'hashrate' at GHASH than BTCGuild which would counteract the 'fee', there are also (unconfirmed) missed payments - never quite managed to corroborate it, but certainly the ppol has found more blocks than the 'popup' message has notified me that i've received payment for the block

YMMV, but personally I only allow the traded ghs from cex to mine at ghash.