Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[opentoe]

Talking about scam THIS guy managed to trick a lot of people into using his reseller link and he is the 3rd top KNC reseller: http://reseller.kncminer.com/orders

More info: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348743.msg4755253#msg4755253

Fortunate for him KNC changed their policy to only allow change of the reseller info on an order if both the buyer and seller requested it.
Hopefully enough people would complain and he will lose his reseller status and all his awards.

That is called deception.

Any reseller issues blame KNC. They are the ones that are allowing resellers.

[McKinley]

I'm not sure we will be selling upgrade modules as close as a week.

......

With respect to Neptune we are where we intended to be at this stage and are still contemplating aspects of the design. Understand that the approach is not the same as that of Jupiter. 28nm was extremely disruptive at the time, of which the effect can plainly be seen. Hashrate was given priority to power consumption,

.....

We will not skimp or rush the design here.

• "Never change a running system" - Having said this, it the inability to supply another batch / Upgrade modules is confusing. Maybe someone tried to "improve" and failed.
  
• Referencing the previous point, it looks like KNC has a Know-How advantage in their 28nm design. At this point abandoning this and starting "all over???" with a complete new design in 20nm makes me the techie in me cheer, and the economist in me wonder. KNC has proven to be able to do it. But if the tech-architects take majority over the tech-economists at KNC this means risc for everyone more interested in ROI than design.
  

Earth started space travel without even having the far superior design of a Warp drive. KNC, please don't go for the Warp drive design - think economist too. I believe in you being the most serious company out there. Don't prove me wrong.

[kendog77]

because what he says is bullshit..  if he lost 50btc why the hell would he be hanging out here??  nah he thinks his name is still worth cooking up another more trickier scam

who the hell throws 50btc to some scam site unless he owns that wallet too and is trying to show he was a big supporter to get any fool to follow...  and now the victim donations..  what a crock this thread is

You'd think this thread was about Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

but it's actually about electrical basics,
Scam identification
and basically anything people feel like talking about.

This thread is so derailed it should be shot and put out of it's misery.

Pages and pages and pages of worthless crap that belongs elsewhere.

People are bored and need something to talk about until we get news from Knc.

Knc, please release another news update. Pretty please? Bitcoinorama, are you there? Did any Knc news come out of the Miami Bitcoin conference?  

[vesperwillow]

Whether you wager .01btc or 50btc, it's still a wager, not a guaranteed payout. If you lose, you lose. Period.

With that being said, I've been tracking satoshidice for awhile, and what I can say is I find some of their stats to be 'curious', for lack of wanting to use a more controversial word. They're also not responding to inquiries related to certain betting addresses 'suddenly going offline' and then eventually coming back online, with the bet history missing, and the betters 'losing'. Happening more so with the higher-payout addresses than any others. They also reduced their payouts on the high-roller bets.

I stopped playing satoshidice once I noticed this pattern of downtime/losses. My gut tells me something is going on.

Back on topic, would be great if KNC had offered to do something like sell modules at the least. Competition has been shipping for 45 days now, and private BTC pools are growing from it. I had held BTC specifically for KNC order, but I can't hold any longer, and have used it elsewhere.

Cointerra is 3 days into their first couple batches running on their production lines, with the miners being boxed up and ready for shipment. They're only awaiting FCC/CE final approval, which should arrive this week. They're within 15% of their target hashgoal and power usage, and have said with some firmware updates they expect to reach original batch 1 target, and will be helping their batch 1 customers out.

KNC has fully dropped the ball on protecting their first 2 batch customers via their NPS. I guess there's a little BFL-ball-dropping in every startup company these days.

[Minor Miner]

Kind of off topic (but not really):
Didn't phoenix kind of scam KNC too?   Didn't he do the reverse of what most people complain about ASICs companies doing to them?   He paid 9BTC (approx) for some miners and then bitcoin fell and he said "wait I can get more bitcoin back than I paid them".
Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

[DPoS]

Cointerra is 3 days into their first couple batches running on their production lines, with the miners being boxed up and ready for shipment. They're only awaiting FCC/CE final approval, which should arrive this week. They're within 15% of their target hashgoal and power usage, and have said with some firmware updates they expect to reach original batch 1 target, and will be helping their batch 1 customers out.

total bullshit.. no wonder you got scammed on satoshi dice

they said they have to do a board redesign to try for 2Th.. any firmware changes is just tinkering
they are much farther away than 15%.. and where has one run stable for even an hour?
all boxed up before UL testing? sure

[murraypaul]

Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now? [...]
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

There is no risk for KNC. They are taking payments in USD, and issuing refunds for the same amount of USD.
Why should they care what happens to the BTC value in between?

[DPoS]

Kind of off topic (but not really):
Didn't phoenix kind of scam KNC too?   Didn't he do the reverse of what most people complain about ASICs companies doing to them?   He paid 9BTC (approx) for some miners and then bitcoin fell and he said "wait I can get more bitcoin back than I paid them".
Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

oh I thought you were going to bring up the part where he scammed them out of free boards in the beginning

[600watt]

Kind of off topic (but not really):
Didn't phoenix kind of scam KNC too?   Didn't he do the reverse of what most people complain about ASICs companies doing to them?   He paid 9BTC (approx) for some miners and then bitcoin fell and he said "wait I can get more bitcoin back than I paid them".
Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

knc runs bitpay. they don´t care about btc price change.

some people used ordering neptunes as a kind of hedge against falling btc price. so what ?

[Biodom]

Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

Batch #2 Neptune has no refunds. If someone refunds batch#1 or batch 0 (previous cust), they will probably go to one of the following: KnC private hashing operation, Cole's brother, batch#3 (Kurt was hinting that it will happen).

[Minor Miner]

There is no risk for KNC. They are taking payments in USD, and issuing refunds for the same amount of USD.
Why should they care what happens to the BTC value in between?

There is no exchange risk for KNC because BitPay is in the middle and KNC only sees $10,000 in and $10,000 out.   KNC's risk is more in the "run on the bank" scenario where KNC has ordered and spent the money to produce the products and then BTC moves in the wrong direction and every customer acts in their own interest and refunds (because they can buy more coin with $10K than the machine will mine).
I am just saying, isn't that what Phoenix did?   He said he was only refunding because he needed the money but now he is saying that he just got scammed out of 50BTC (so did he "need" the money or did he just use KNC as a trading account?)

[Biodom]

Hedging bitcoin with the KnC machine is what probably happened, true. I am not convinced that timing was right.
Besides, Neptune 1st batch was sold for $19,100 on Ebay yesterday. I expect ebay premium to increase as we get closer to production.

[Minor Miner]

Hedging bitcoin with the KnC machine is what probably happened, true. I am not convinced that timing was right.
Besides, Neptune 1st batch was sold for $19,100 on Ebay yesterday. I expect ebay premium to increase as we get closer to production.

There is quite a large difference on a trade being "sold" vs. "settled"

[vesperwillow]

total bullshit.. no wonder you got scammed on satoshi dice

for what it's worth, i've won more than i've lost on satoshi dice. I wasn't the idiot who lost 50BTC in one day on satoshi. I also don't lose in casinos. I'm also not popular at them because of that reason. But damn if the drinks and food aren't worth it.

they said they have to do a board redesign to try for 2Th.. any firmware changes is just tinkering

Board redesign and firmware, and they said they would take care of their customers. It still doesn't matter considering they're days away from shipping a more powerful chip than KNC.

they are much farther away than 15%.. and where has one run stable for even an hour?

85% of 2th is 1.7th. They have the system running between 1.6 and 1.7. Considering most ASIC equipment has a 10-15% variance between design and production, this is acceptable. Especially considering 1.7TH the first half of February is worth more than 2TH the last half of February. Time to market.

all boxed up before UL testing? sure

You can put the stickers on the boxes before it's certified, provided they're not shipped.

Regardless of the nuances of this discussion, KNC has failed to uphold its protection commitment to its customers. They've had 45 days to do it, and are still dragging their feet.

THAT is the point I'm making.

[Biodom]

Simple. Manufacturers need to stop this pre-order crap that drags on for endless months. End of problem.

Yes! Any company that has product for sale immediately with solid characteristics and with a competent team behind it will swipe away everybody else.
In fact, if even Cointerra was silent through the whole ordeal, but suddenly released Terraminer en masse at 1.6th/s for $10k, they would have sold 10 thousand of them or more. I wonder why nobody else thought of doing this instead of pathetic preorders.

[jelin1984]

please knc


i want upgraded module

[1l1l11ll1l]

please knc


i want upgraded module

Sorry, but KNC is busy protecting their customers' share of the network. (Protecting the share from increasing)

[The Avenger]

please knc

i want upgraded module

If you want one, you need to go to Stockholm airport and storm this airplane

[joeventura]

It's not like there's anything else going on in here.. certainly not KNC updates.

While that may be true, people come here for news about KNC and having to wade through mindless rants, electrical wiring classes and other horse crap is just wrong.

[timmmers]

Upgrade modules will still piss people off, which rigs will they be compatible with? The past ones were Nov only weren't they?
This is the main reason I went with KNC, the modular design that could be upgraded. Turned out that was shite. Never got the chance.

The amusing part of all ASIC company sales is that if these rigs were any other item of half the value sold for XBT buyers would insist on ESCROW. Part payment would make more sense too....they easily cover dev costs with half the RRP....but they always limit batches and create scarcity, then a while later run another batch just as scarce, which leaves customers no choice but to bite that hook or swim away.

As for new companies releasing tempting rigs, no-one knows their story until someone goes to look, and it seems to me that people here are all over the globe so someone will be close to most companies. Instead of crucifying each other and risking scams, how much easier would it be to pay whoever is closest to go look? It would cost peanuts per donor and if it were to become the norm to get a visit who would bother attempting a scam ? There's no reason to refuse one for a legit company. For me to pop to Cambridge on a choochoo would have cost about 100 quid, there must be people closer than me by some margin. That's nothing spread between a dozen or more interested people is it? To be sure? Compared to the losses ?

Sad to hear Pheonix lost to this, and sadder to see the libel aimed at him.