Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Biomech]

Last statement from FINCEN about BTC taxes was that trading would be taxed, and mining was not threatened yet.
It was on coindesk.  But Time will tell.... btw...  Taxes are NOT retro-active in USA brah, they never are. You cannot be taxed on your 2013 btc earnings unless you willingly give it away to them. There is no guideline in place yet, and when it is, it will be from then on, not reaching into the past, they cannot do that unless there was a guideline in place..
as they cannot just decide to tax you after the fact. Guideline comes first, then tax from then on.

This is off topic but this is completely wrong.   FINCEN is about whether you need to register as an MSB.    The IRS has nothing to do with this paper.    You owe taxes on anything that you made income from (whether it is mining bitcoins or selling organic beets).   Just because the beet farmer does not need to register as an MSB does not mean he does not need to pay taxes.    You have misunderstood.

Post that new tax code then please.

It is my understanding that assets (in this case bitcoin) are not taxable until CONVERTED to dollars by sale or other means. Also, you can claim self employment and depreciate the machines used to mine. Not full cost, but over time based on their useful lifetime. If you go that route, you WILL need a CPA to check your figures and sign off on them, for the inevitable audit.

[1713483258]

1713483258

[1713483258]

1713483258

[sickpig]

FUD? I can order 3 1TH Coincraft miners with a delivery date of March 29th for $11,000 right now, and Knc hasn't shipped a single Neptune or even given buyers any idea of when they will be delivered. I'm amazed that everyone who doesn't have a day one order hasn't cancelled yet, and even day one orders are looking worse and worse by the day.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=514758.0

He's in denial.  The Neptune is quickly becoming (if it wasn't already) a terrible purchase.

Agreed, and I don't even think the power usage numbers on the Neptune will be that great, so that won't even save buyers.

November Jupiters used 1.3W/GH, so a Neptune will probably use ~1W/GH, which has already been matched by many competitors.

In my opinion, it's a huge mistake to be overly loyal to any mining hardware manufacturer in this game. That bias will likely cost you a lot of money.

wow, you'd rather a single terrahash for 5600 dollars, or 2th for 12k, not even knowing if they will deliver?
How many have they delivered so far?  
Not my cup of tea
Remember just a few months ago when peeps said the same about Jupiter, and refunded for Hashfast and Cointerra?
Deja-Vu
...and now they are salty.
Same will happen here. Stoked. It's like an instant replay.
Remember when "Jupiters will never make ROI" was the theme?
hahahahaa

Most jupiters have yet to ROI in BTC terms. Dickhead.

*Bullshit.*

You are saying you've had 5 months to mine with your Jupiter(s), and haven't made ROI in btc?
Nearly impossible unless you had major problems, or simply didn't mine with them. Wow.
Maybe you should try another investment, seriously.
Most had ROI within a couple months dude... look back in this thread.

Got mine on october the 4th, late afternoon. Got it working 45 min later. Probably due to some raw edges of fw 0.90 one of my asic slot had a die0 issue. The other slots had "not best in class" performance, hence my miner mint at 470 gh/s @pool until I decided to apply enablecore patch to the miner (a week or so after knc release it). After that I was able to get almost up to par performance. Later on after having applied a few tricks/mods learnt mainly from the overclock thread the miner is mining at 640 @the pool.

To make a long story short I spent 65 btc to buy the miner. I still don't have all my btcs back. I'm almost there, though.

Just to say that not all jups were created equal.

[BitchImightbe]

Even I, as a newbie, know Phoenix is a scamming KnC fanboy  
(Yes, i´ve read the scam thread)

[Tornate]

Not refund yet?

Yes. Month passed since my orders changed status to "Refund ready for process". No refund since February.
Their support only replies "we are extremely busy at the moment".
It is taking them more than a MONTH to send a single bitcoin transaction, LOL.

SCAM

REFUND RECEIVED TODAY ! 

[Phoenix1969]

Even I, as a newbie, know Phoenix is a scamming KnC fanboy  
(Yes, i´ve read the scam thread)

Oyeah, I'm just here scamming everyone.....  please...
I'm here getting rich as hell just commenting away.
Haahahahaaa
KNC Fanboy?    okay, I'll cop to that
 

[Phoenix1969]

Not refund yet?

Yes. Month passed since my orders changed status to "Refund ready for process". No refund since February.
Their support only replies "we are extremely busy at the moment".
It is taking them more than a MONTH to send a single bitcoin transaction, LOL.

SCAM

REFUND RECEIVED TODAY ! 

OMFG Congrats dude!
Whew!

[Minor Miner]

Not refund yet?

Yes. Month passed since my orders changed status to "Refund ready for process". No refund since February.
Their support only replies "we are extremely busy at the moment".
It is taking them more than a MONTH to send a single bitcoin transaction, LOL.

SCAM

REFUND RECEIVED TODAY ! 

OMFG Congrats dude!
Whew!

I would encourage anyone that thinks they do not need to pay income tax on their mining profits to read this article.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-25/irs-rules-bitcoin-property-not-currency

[joeventura]

It is my understanding that assets (in this case bitcoin) are not taxable until CONVERTED to dollars by sale or other means. Also, you can claim self employment and depreciate the machines used to mine. Not full cost, but over time based on their useful lifetime. If you go that route, you WILL need a CPA to check your figures and sign off on them, for the inevitable audit.

Here is my opinion. If you are a sole prop LLC (which you should be)

Your hardware to produce Bitcoins/other coins is an asset like a printer, a server or a laptop. You use it to work and make money.
You purchase it and write it off over a reasonable depreciation period (usually 3 to 5 years)

Bitcoins that are not converted to cash have no value and are the same value to your LLC as a domain name (something you could sell and convert to cash) but if you haven't you have no realized value.

If you were wise enough to register the domain name "creditcards.com" that obviously is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, but until you sell it for cash it is worth the $8 your paid GoDaddy to register it.

Same for a string of characters that is a Bitcoin, until someone buys it from you, it isn't worth squat.

So if you paid $20k for miners and never sold a bitcoin in 2013 you have $20k in depreciable computer assets and nothing more.

Your mileage may vary, batteries not included, items in the mirror are closer than they appear, CONSULT YOUR ACCOUNTANT.

Don't mention the word Bitcoin in your tax return.
If you feel compelled then they are:
Application Specific Computer Systems.

Good luck

[kendog77]

There is some terrible tax advice in this thread.

Read this:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Specifically, this:

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

Q-9: Is an individual who “mines” virtual currency as a trade or business subject to self-employment tax on the income derived from those activities?

A-9: If a taxpayer’s “mining” of virtual currency constitutes a trade or business, and the “mining” activity is not undertaken by the taxpayer as an employee, the net earnings from self-employment (generally, gross income derived from carrying on a trade or business less allowable deductions) resulting from those activities constitute self- employment income and are subject to the self-employment tax. See Chapter 10 of Publication 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, for more information on self- employment tax and Publication 535, Business Expenses, for more information on determining whether expenses are from a business activity carried on to make a profit.

[joeventura]

There is some terrible tax advice in this thread.

Read this:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Specifically, this:

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

Q-9: Is an individual who “mines” virtual currency as a trade or business subject to self-employment tax on the income derived from those activities?

A-9: If a taxpayer’s “mining” of virtual currency constitutes a trade or business, and the “mining” activity is not undertaken by the taxpayer as an employee, the net earnings from self-employment (generally, gross income derived from carrying on a trade or business less allowable deductions) resulting from those activities constitute self- employment income and are subject to the self-employment tax. See Chapter 10 of Publication 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, for more information on self- employment tax and Publication 535, Business Expenses, for more information on determining whether expenses are from a business activity carried on to make a profit.

I stand corrected

However that A-8 answer is a little fuzzy.
Includible?

[Templer]

FUD? I can order 3 1TH Coincraft miners with a delivery date of March 29th for $11,000 right now, and Knc hasn't shipped a single Neptune or even given buyers any idea of when they will be delivered. I'm amazed that everyone who doesn't have a day one order hasn't cancelled yet, and even day one orders are looking worse and worse by the day.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=514758.0

He's in denial.  The Neptune is quickly becoming (if it wasn't already) a terrible purchase.

Agreed, and I don't even think the power usage numbers on the Neptune will be that great, so that won't even save buyers.

November Jupiters used 1.3W/GH, so a Neptune will probably use ~1W/GH, which has already been matched by many competitors.

In my opinion, it's a huge mistake to be overly loyal to any mining hardware manufacturer in this game. That bias will likely cost you a lot of money.

wow, you'd rather a single terrahash for 5600 dollars, or 2th for 12k, not even knowing if they will deliver?
How many have they delivered so far?  
Not my cup of tea
Remember just a few months ago when peeps said the same about Jupiter, and refunded for Hashfast and Cointerra?
Deja-Vu
...and now they are salty.
Same will happen here. Stoked. It's like an instant replay.
Remember when "Jupiters will never make ROI" was the theme?
hahahahaa

Most jupiters have yet to ROI in BTC terms. Dickhead.

*Bullshit.*

You are saying you've had 5 months to mine with your Jupiter(s), and haven't made ROI in btc?
Nearly impossible unless you had major problems, or simply didn't mine with them. Wow.
Maybe you should try another investment, seriously.
Most had ROI within a couple months dude... look back in this thread.

Got mine on october the 4th, late afternoon. Got it working 45 min later. Probably due to some raw edges of fw 0.90 one of my asic slot had a die0 issue. The other slots had "not best in class" performance, hence my miner mint at 470 gh/s @pool until I decided to apply enablecore patch to the miner (a week or so after knc release it). After that I was able to get almost up to par performance. Later on after having applied a few tricks/mods learnt mainly from the overclock thread the miner is mining at 640 @the pool.

To make a long story short I spent 65 btc to buy the miner. I still don't have all my btcs back. I'm almost there, though.

Just to say that not all jups were created equal.

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1EwrkHgMeamha7EDMXcBFFjmS8XcWeKDuM

my Jupiter since October the 4th!! payed in $!!

[proclivity]

I stand corrected

However that A-8 answer is a little fuzzy.
Includible?

Sounds like it must be included, just like wages, as gross income. My question now is.. How would one treat the purchase price of the mining equipment?

[Shameless Beggar]

So, one has to keep track of bitcoin value at every instant pool finds a block?

[Minor Miner]

I stand corrected

However that A-8 answer is a little fuzzy.
Includible?

Sounds like it must be included, just like wages, as gross income. My question now is.. How would one treat the purchase price of the mining equipment?

as an asset.   3 year depreciation just like a computer.

[SyRenity]

In the light of a mounting evidence about an aggressive self-mining done by certain ASIC manufacturers (and especially with the yesterday's rumor of 466,000USD per day being dumped on exchanges out there), we at Spondoolies decided to do something about this.

Check here for more details!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.msg5901356#msg5901356.

[DPoS]

So, one has to keep track of bitcoin value at every instant pool finds a block?

and what of the fact that only the pool is doing the actual mining and everyone else is just effort towards that?

unless you are solo mining you are not uncovering bitcoins, the pool is and you are being paid... in a very elaborate fashion since shelved shares, et all is in the mix

[DPoS]

There is some terrible tax advice in this thread.

Read this:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Specifically, this:

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

Q-9: Is an individual who “mines” virtual currency as a trade or business subject to self-employment tax on the income derived from those activities?

A-9: If a taxpayer’s “mining” of virtual currency constitutes a trade or business, and the “mining” activity is not undertaken by the taxpayer as an employee, the net earnings from self-employment (generally, gross income derived from carrying on a trade or business less allowable deductions) resulting from those activities constitute self- employment income and are subject to the self-employment tax. See Chapter 10 of Publication 334, Tax Guide for Small Business, for more information on self- employment tax and Publication 535, Business Expenses, for more information on determining whether expenses are from a business activity carried on to make a profit.

how many people actually mined anything?? a pool is doing the mining and the worker bees may or may not get paid for their effort..  I never uncorked a block from the blockchain, have you?  BTCGuild lists me as 2 or so blocks found back when they listed that but that wasnt really the case anyway

the deeper you look in, the muddier it gets

[Phoenix1969]

Guess it's time for another news feed on KNC's site eh?

[The Avenger]

In the light of a mounting evidence about an aggressive self-mining done by certain ASIC manufacturers (and especially with the yesterday's rumor of 466,000USD per day being dumped on exchanges out there), we at Spondoolies decided to do something about this.

"How would you like to get your hands on a nice pair of Dawsons?"


So your solution to

certain vendors ... increasing the difficulty and lowering the ROI for everyone.

is aggressively selling shit loads of hardware, increasing the difficulty and lowering the ROI for everyone?

Sigh.

[Gator-hex]

There is some terrible tax advice in this thread.

Read this:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Specifically, this:

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?

A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

I stand corrected

However that A-8 answer is a little fuzzy.
Includible?

It's not at the point you dig up a nugget/harvest a field/mine a Bitcoin. You do not realize gross income until you sell it in the market!
And then you get to nett out your costs on top of that. I doubt many make more than handful of beans after equipment/energy costs are taken out.