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Question: How much of your corn do you plan on cashing out in the next massive bull run?
None - 22 (18.8%)
1-10% - 15 (12.8%)
11-20% - 14 (12%)
21-30% - 16 (13.7%)
31-40% - 5 (4.3%)
41-50% - 12 (10.3%)
51-60% - 9 (7.7%)
61-70% - 5 (4.3%)
71-80% - 4 (3.4%)
81-90% - 2 (1.7%)
91-99% - 3 (2.6%)
100% - 10 (8.5%)
Total Voters: 117

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21784148 times)
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JohnUser
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January 25, 2018, 06:01:26 AM

Are we slowly returning to the moon? Grin

Merit ???what is this Roll Eyes


btc is an old man; give him time, let it go. (him).

As I said : fuck off others, it will die as it die thousand times, i'm tired with that.
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January 25, 2018, 06:06:36 AM

Even the Weiss rating bullshit from today kind of demonstrates that either smart people do not understand bitcoin or they are purposefully engaging in misleading behavior...

How the fuck do they give Ethereum a B and bitcoin a C+ and Dogecoin a C...   Makes little sense, except that they are making shit up, and in the end, the fact that some of us can see through the bullshit, we are going to continue to invest in bitcoin and we will profit from such ongoing better than others insight.  In other words, some folks are going to get mislead by the bullshit that ended up coming out of the supposedly objective and professional Weiss rating system.
Calling this little piss ant ratings corporation smart people is beneath you JJG. Market makers and big money sent way more qualified(and discrete) individuals out to check out bitcoin long ago. Any claim by these people is suspect imo. I mean for crying out loud these are the same pond scum that caused the recession. While not exact its of the same tainted lineage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating_agencies_and_the_subprime_crisis


The fact of the matter that bitcoin is getting a grade at all..let alone a C+ is absolutely amazing as far as I am concerned. I mean..think about it..this is the coin associated with mtGox..SR...numerous hacks ect ect.


What do you know about this "piss ant ratings corporation"?  Nothing, I would judge from your comments.  Say what you want, but Weiss and his father were pretty much the only honest ratings company to pick apart bank financials for years and years.  To top it off, you link to a wikipedia posting that has nothing to do with Weiss Ratings and instead focuses on the big-boy, for profit and ongoing business relationships, rating agencies, i.e., S&P, Fitch, Moody's.

If you want take shots at Weiss, quote from their analysis and point out why you think they are dead wrong.  Weiss ratings did not 'cause the recession' and they are definitely not part of the "tainted lineage" of ratings agencies that you refer to.
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January 25, 2018, 06:08:26 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), Last of the V8s (1)

I may have called these Weiss raters "experts" but surely I could have placed quotes around such a designation because I was only referring to them as "experts" in the traditional financial markets sense, and not really conceding that they are true experts, especially in terms of what they would consider to be valuable in a blockchain, and surely, they would not place much value upon decentralization, and that is truely what brings value to bitcoin above and beyond traditional systems and also beyond other cryptos who only feign decentralization rather than actually accomplishing such in any close proximity to bitcoin.

I think we are so used to see disclaimers suchs as "past performance is no guarantee of future performance" type statements we don't hold these people to high standards.
These Weiss raters are indirectly making predictions about what is going to happen, and these predictions are clearly testable.
But I don't see any evidence that any previous predictions were correct. (probably because they only just made up their system)
Until they can prove something like
"If you invested in our top X crypto currencies in the last year you would have made X% profit", then it's just meaningless noise.
Any of us could put together some rules, take a few photos of old men wearing suits on a professional website and then make some recommendations, but we shouldnt give it any weight unless it has been shown provably correct.

But I'm guessing from their currenct set of B rated cryptos, its highly likely that in a years time we aren't going to be giving them much respect.

JayJuanGee
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January 25, 2018, 06:12:12 AM

Are we slowly returning to the moon? Grin

Merit ???what is this Roll Eyes



Merit explained:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0
JayJuanGee
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January 25, 2018, 06:15:48 AM

Even the Weiss rating bullshit from today kind of demonstrates that either smart people do not understand bitcoin or they are purposefully engaging in misleading behavior...

How the fuck do they give Ethereum a B and bitcoin a C+ and Dogecoin a C...   Makes little sense, except that they are making shit up, and in the end, the fact that some of us can see through the bullshit, we are going to continue to invest in bitcoin and we will profit from such ongoing better than others insight.  In other words, some folks are going to get mislead by the bullshit that ended up coming out of the supposedly objective and professional Weiss rating system.
Calling this little piss ant ratings corporation smart people is beneath you JJG. Market makers and big money sent way more qualified(and discrete) individuals out to check out bitcoin long ago. Any claim by these people is suspect imo. I mean for crying out loud these are the same pond scum that caused the recession. While not exact its of the same tainted lineage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating_agencies_and_the_subprime_crisis


The fact of the matter that bitcoin is getting a grade at all..let alone a C+ is absolutely amazing as far as I am concerned. I mean..think about it..this is the coin associated with mtGox..SR...numerous hacks ect ect.


What do you know about this "piss ant ratings corporation"?  Nothing, I would judge from your comments.  Say what you want, but Weiss and his father were pretty much the only honest ratings company to pick apart bank financials for years and years.  To top it off, you link to a wikipedia posting that has nothing to do with Weiss Ratings and instead focuses on the big-boy, for profit and ongoing business relationships, rating agencies, i.e., S&P, Fitch, Moody's.

If you want take shots at Weiss, quote from their analysis and point out why you think they are dead wrong.  Weiss ratings did not 'cause the recession' and they are definitely not part of the "tainted lineage" of ratings agencies that you refer to.


Even if Toxic was a bit wrong about the scope of his criticism of Weiss and his use of inadequate supporting materials, he still makes a valid point that it should be pretty fucking clear that Weiss don't know shit about what makes blockchain valuable based on their ratings of B to Ethereum, C+ to Bitcoin and C to Dogecoin.  Evidence enough.  Tongue
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January 25, 2018, 06:17:48 AM
Merited by Last of the V8s (1)

B to Cardano and EOS is hilarious.  

 Part of the problem is they have their rating systems confused.    Letter ratings are supposed to be an indication of financial strength or solvency.    Buy and sell recommendations are supposed to be separate from letter ratings.

It would be perfectly rational for Bitcoin to have an A rating and a sell recommendation by looking at the charts. Instead we have this nonsense combined C rating.

They have conflated letter ratings with buy and sell recommendations.   This makes their ratings look silly. And it’s their own damn fault. They should know better.
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January 25, 2018, 06:20:47 AM

B to Cardano and EOS is hilarious.  


I agree with you about the what the fuck, regarding Cardano and EOS...

Maybe someone could post the actual report here or link to somewhere that we would be able to see it?  I have not seen the actual report because it is behind a paywall.


Part of the problem is they have their rating systems confused.    Letter ratings are supposed to be an indication of financial strength or solvency.    Buy and sell recommendations are supposed to be separate from letter ratings.

They have conflated letter ratings with buy and sell recommendations.   This makes their ratings look like nonsense. And it’s their own damn fault. They should know better.

 Their confusion about how their own letter writing system should work is unforgivable.


Another good point.... 
Toxic2040
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January 25, 2018, 06:21:02 AM
Merited by Dabs (1)

Even the Weiss rating bullshit from today kind of demonstrates that either smart people do not understand bitcoin or they are purposefully engaging in misleading behavior...

How the fuck do they give Ethereum a B and bitcoin a C+ and Dogecoin a C...   Makes little sense, except that they are making shit up, and in the end, the fact that some of us can see through the bullshit, we are going to continue to invest in bitcoin and we will profit from such ongoing better than others insight.  In other words, some folks are going to get mislead by the bullshit that ended up coming out of the supposedly objective and professional Weiss rating system.
Calling this little piss ant ratings corporation smart people is beneath you JJG. Market makers and big money sent way more qualified(and discrete) individuals out to check out bitcoin long ago. Any claim by these people is suspect imo. I mean for crying out loud these are the same pond scum that caused the recession. While not exact its of the same tainted lineage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating_agencies_and_the_subprime_crisis


The fact of the matter that bitcoin is getting a grade at all..let alone a C+ is absolutely amazing as far as I am concerned. I mean..think about it..this is the coin associated with mtGox..SR...numerous hacks ect ect.


What do you know about this "piss ant ratings corporation"?  Nothing, I would judge from your comments.  Say what you want, but Weiss and his father were pretty much the only honest ratings company to pick apart bank financials for years and years.  To top it off, you link to a wikipedia posting that has nothing to do with Weiss Ratings and instead focuses on the big-boy, for profit and ongoing business relationships, rating agencies, i.e., S&P, Fitch, Moody's.

If you want take shots at Weiss, quote from their analysis and point out why you think they are dead wrong.  Weiss ratings did not 'cause the recession' and they are definitely not part of the "taninted lineage" of ratings agencies that you refer to.

I may have called these Weiss raters "experts" but surely I could have placed quotes around such a designation because I was only referring to them as "experts" in the traditional financial markets sense, and not really conceding that they are true experts, especially in terms of what they would consider to be valuable in a blockchain, and surely, they would not place much value upon decentralization, and that is truely what brings value to bitcoin above and beyond traditional systems and also beyond other cryptos who only feign decentralization rather than actually accomplishing such in any close proximity to bitcoin.

I think we are so used to see disclaimers suchs as "past performance is no guarantee of future performance" type statements we don't hold these people to high standards.
These Weiss raters are indirectly making predictions about what is going to happen, and these predictions are clearly testable.
But I don't see any evidence that any previous predictions were correct. (probably because they only just made up their system)
Until they can prove something like
"If you invested in our top X crypto currencies in the last year you would have made X% profit", then it's just meaningless noise.
Any of us could put together some rules, take a few photos of old men wearing suits on a professional website and then make some recommendations, but we shouldnt give it any weight unless it has been shown provably correct.

But I'm guessing from their currenct set of B rated cryptos, its highly likely that in a years time we aren't going to be giving them much respect.



You know..I was drafting up a reply...but as usual...JJG is so much more eloquent than I. The evidence is right there in the 2nd sentence I quoted.
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January 25, 2018, 06:23:13 AM

B to Cardano and EOS is hilarious. 


I agree with you about the what the fuck, regarding Cardano and EOS...

Maybe someone could post the actual report here or link to somewhere that we would be able to see it?  I have not seen the actual report because it is behind a paywall.


More evidence..if they are so fair handed...why the desperate grab for a mailing list and the paywall...now...gtfo.
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January 25, 2018, 06:41:11 AM

B to Cardano and EOS is hilarious. 


I agree with you about the what the fuck, regarding Cardano and EOS...

Maybe someone could post the actual report here or link to somewhere that we would be able to see it?  I have not seen the actual report because it is behind a paywall.


More evidence..if they are so fair handed...why the desperate grab for a mailing list and the paywall...now...gtfo.

Uhm, because most ratings agencies charge some type of fee for their services or complete analysis.  It is really not all that unusual to want to get paid in some form or fashion for research. 

But whatever.  Because you think they owe it to you at no cost, ipso facto, they must be crooks.
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January 25, 2018, 06:46:35 AM
Merited by Dabs (1), bones261 (1), explorer (1), Dunkelheit667 (1), soullyG (1), BobLawblaw (1)

Bitcoin, with almost a decade track record, proven security model and a 180B market cap gets a C+

Doge, which is, was and always will be a JOKE, abandoned by its creator who just rolls his eyes gets a C

Cardano gets a B AND ALL IT IS IS A WHITE PAPER


that's all I need to know about this farce
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January 25, 2018, 06:52:06 AM

Bitcoin, with almost a decade track record, proven security model and a 180B market cap gets a C+

Doge, which is, was and always will be a JOKE, abandoned by its creator who just rolls his eyes gets a C

Cardano gets a B AND ALL IT IS IS A WHITE PAPER


that's all I need to know about this farce


I have no way of proving it but I guarantee Cardano paid for that rating. It sticks out like dog balls.

Edit - from the SEC ruling against Weiss:

Quote
Weiss Research maintained internal performance records which noted every trade Weiss Research recommended and the hypothetical profit or loss an investor would have experienced if he or she had followed Weiss Research’s recommendations. Weiss Research did not make these performance records available to subscribers or potential subscribers. These performance records demonstrate that, during the relevant time period, subscribers to most of Weiss Research’s premium services, who followed Weiss Research’s recommendations without deviation, would have lost money. Subscribers to the few profitable services would have realized overall gains that were well below the profits from individual trades represented in Weiss Research’s advertisements.

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2006/ia-2525.pdf
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January 25, 2018, 06:55:28 AM
Merited by ErisDiscordia (1)

Just like how these agencies rated Sub-Prime Mortgages as AAAAAAAAAAAA++++++++
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January 25, 2018, 07:09:57 AM

Link to Weiss pdf: http://moonnocoin.com/weissratings-sokuhou/Weiss-Cryptocurrency-Ratings.pdf

IOC gets the same rating as BTC. I have never even heard of IOC.

Edit:  IOC is rank 209 on CMC and is traded on Bittrex only.     Lol.  
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January 25, 2018, 07:15:07 AM
Last edit: January 25, 2018, 07:38:27 AM by marcus_of_augustus
Merited by vapourminer (1), Dabs (1), JayJuanGee (1), Last of the V8s (1), ErisDiscordia (1)

ratings for blockchains got the smell of Wall St. desperation all over it ... trying to pump their centralised shitcoin Ether

Quote
Bitcoin has no immediate mechanism for promptly upgrading its software code.
sums up the level of their ignorance/incompetence ... decentralised cryptocurrency should be hard to change, it's a crucial feature of it's security model. Worthless addition to the ecosystem but may provide some cover for their manipulations in the futures markets ... until that blows up like the CDO^2 mortgage bond fraud racket they signed off I guess.
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January 25, 2018, 07:32:41 AM

Good morning everyone.
It appears that btc did a nice +200€ during the night, is that a sign that the FUD is decreasing and the traumatism of the recent 'crash' is almost over for the noob community ?
Or am I too optimistic here ?
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January 25, 2018, 07:37:37 AM
Merited by Dabs (1)

Link to Weiss pdf: http://moonnocoin.com/weissratings-sokuhou/Weiss-Cryptocurrency-Ratings.pdf

IOC gets the same rating as BTC. I have never even heard of IOC.

Edit:  IOC is rank 209 on CMC and is traded on Bittrex only.     Lol.  


Thanks...

First time that I actually saw the raw data, and NOT that it makes me feel any better... but good for others to have access, too.
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January 25, 2018, 07:46:06 AM
Merited by Dabs (1)

Thanks...

First time that I actually saw the raw data, and NOT that it makes me feel any better... but good for others to have access, too.

Don't let it bug you, anyone that can't immediately see it for the utter horseshit it is deserves what's coming to them.
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January 25, 2018, 08:11:38 AM

Thanks...

First time that I actually saw the raw data, and NOT that it makes me feel any better... but good for others to have access, too.

Don't let it bug you, anyone that can't immediately see it for the utter horseshit it is deserves what's coming to them.


Likely the vast majority of the readers of this thread see the bullshit within that rating system, but I know a lot of smart people who really buy into the dictates of authoritative sources.  So I think that there are a lot of folks who are going to get fooled by the nonsense contained within that ratings list.
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January 25, 2018, 08:20:15 AM
Merited by Dabs (1)

It is time to take that journey down the mysterious hallway with exuberance and delight to be awoken by the mighty Bitcoin and the green pillars of majesty



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