Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[matthewh3]

This attack shows how using a myriad of AuXPoW chains could avoid this problem.  As by using a myriad of chains then the attacker would need to attack more than one chain.  While using AuxPoW with the biggest coin on each chain would greatly increase the network hashrate.  I think you should quickly adopt AuxPoW with litecoin how Dogecoin has just done so to help stop any potential future attacks.  Then the myriad with NeoScrypt Feathercoin merge-mining and Lyra2 Vertcoin merged-mining can brought in a later date.  Plus it may be worth including Cryptonight Monero AuxPoW with the myriad.  Plus possibly X11 Darkcoin merge-mining included in the Myriad.  To have a total of three to up to possibly five myriad chains all in AuxPoW with the biggest networked coin on each chain.  As with a myriad of five chains then an attacker would need to control three of the five AuxPoW chains to control the network.

[lunokhod2]

This attack shows how using a myriad of AuXPoW chains could avoid this problem.  As by using a myriad of chains then the attacker would need to attack more than one chain.  While using AuxPoW with the biggest coin on each chain would greatly increase the network hashrate.  I think you should quickly adopt AuxPoW with litecoin how Dogecoin has just done so to help stop any potential future attacks.  Then the myriad with NeoScrypt Feathercoin merge-mining and Lyra2 Vertcoin merged-mining can brought in a later date.  Plus it may be worth including Cryptonight Monero AuxPoW with the myriad.  Plus possibly X11 Darkcoin merge-mining included in the Myriad.  To have a total of three to up to possibly five myriad chains all in AuxPoW with the biggest networked coin on each chain.  As with a myriad of five chains then an attacker would need to control three of the five AuxPoW chains to control the network.

Not being a miner, I am leaning towards Crytponight as my favorite proof-of-work algorithm. It is heavily CPU oriented, which will put off mining centralization for some time.

Perhaps there are similar cpu-oriented algorithms out there, but cryptonight addresses another important point: If we go toward merged mining in the future, which coin would we want to do this with? The only coin that I know of that is putting privacy first, and for which the developers have some integrity, is Monero. Given the new partnership between the two developers in PrivacySolutions.no, if we went in this direction, this choice seems to be a no brainer.

The only other algorithm out there I have some respect for is Peercoin's proof-of-stake (though I would prefer a 100% proof-of-stake system...). A built in inflation of ~1% is something that we could probably live with. No one would get rich mining via POS, which is fine by me. Unfortunately, I don't think that POS will work once Zerocoin is implemented. POS would probably only work with ANC balances (which can be "staked"), and not with zerocoins that are in an anonymous escrow pool. I suspect that about a third of ANC will be locked up in zerocoins, which will limit the number of people mining via POS. It is possible that I am wrong, and that zerocoins could be staked like ANC, but this would probably require some important modifications to the original algorithm, and with zerocoin development going on, combined with the arrival of scrypt asics, I don't think that we will have the time to implement this.

[GroundRod]

Just came on to voice my support for allot of your latest ideas matthewh3...

Way out of my league speaking up, only a few months into really putting allot of time in to figuring out a small fraction of this stuff, and then mostly my efforts have been in regard to Ixcoin and how to bring it's code base up to the bitcoin core 9.2 level and keep it current going forward as the block rewards hit zero within the next 2 months, now after 3+yrs, it will be out of newly mined coins, and survive on only transaction fees or die trying. 

Thanks goes out to ahmed_bodi for an extremely quick code upgrade, over the course of only a few days here in Aug 2014, a new Ixcoin 9.2 core client was born, nearly complete source is up on github & can be found here:
https://github.com/IXCoin-Dev/IXCoin

I not privy to whom he is, other than knowing he's involved with the Myriadcoin development and PolyMYR mining interests, the code (linked above) has to be tested on PolyMYR yet and undoubtedly will have some final AuxPoW tweaks before being finalized & released into the wild.  Then also CEX.io (aka ghash.io multipool) is standing firm on their commitment to IXC, where it will have to also be thoroughly tested before implementation into their pools.  We'll see....

My current opinion is that 'How' a developer implements AuxPoW, is at best a tricky proposition, one that takes allot of different parameters into consideration.  To do it well with a Scrypt coin like zAnoncoin should be fairly straightforward, yet honestly I've not tried to take a close look at what will be required, there are only a very few implementations out, it sure does look like there is taking place an explosion of in code around this topic.

Considering all the various build tool requirements and various code base branches, it's not just a quick fix to drop into use for older coins with established blockchains and investors to consider, unless you've got the resources of a mining multipool at your finger tips for testing.  Ixcoin was easy for him, it is bitcoin except for a few lines of code difference, and then the fact it has been merge-mined alongside the likes of NMC & DVC, for many years now, already proven code at the 3.x,6.x & 8.x code base levels.  Its not my call, but Meeh was asking for opinions and implementing an Scrypt version of AuxPow would be a really great step towards strengthening zAnoncoin's position going forward IMO.....

The reason for all my discussion on ixc, is it points out how important that mining interests are satisfied, even for us zAnoncoin enthusiasts, many of us whom would probably rather not have to care about them.  Protecting a coins network with lots of hash is a security feature we all want to be able to depend on and need to make this work, in a mutually beneficial way.  As the price of zANC jumps up, mining it will be very profitable for them, lets make it easy and in so doing it will provide us with security and low transaction fee costs.  At least that is obviously my 'hope' 

An AuxPow Scrypt implementation right now should do the trick, let the merged-mined blocks appear in the zANC blockchain as proof of work.  As to getting into multiple or different algorithms, I've yet to wrap my mind around why it is needed, undoubtedly tech changes will require it, but some algorithms will also have been found to fail or worse. 

GR

[Gnosis-]

[...]
rsaufo and drAGon, rats don't leave good ships, they leave sinking ships.

I still post on this thread if I have something to say but anoncoin is rudderless. It is trying to see what it can copy or immitate instead of being a real coin. I see huntercoin that has a genuinely innovative project. If you want to copy something why not at least copy something good? If you just want to whine about 'rats deserting you' then carry on.

Comments like these do not contribute anything to the discussion; please refrain from similar comments in the future.

[GroundRod]

Wow this could be great news for ANC, it's just got listed on CEX.io as a bitcoin trading pair, volume so far is ZERO, no buy/sell orders, but that WILL change...

https://cex.io/trade#ANC-BTC

You might have to be logged in to access that link, expect some serious volatility as this gets rolled out!

GR

ETA: Transfer of some coin from Cryptsy to CEX.io took only a few minutes...

ETA2: It should be noted that, once there, if you try to withdraw ANC, it is set @ a 1000ANC commission!  This freaked me out at first, then I realized that POT, WDC and MEC coins were also newly listed today and also set to 1000 coins for a withdrawal, my guess is that the programming on these new additions is a work *in progess*, so don't get to alarmed over removing your coin at the moment, I'm sure they will set a withdrawal fee to fair market values in each asset, just wanted to let everybody know about what I'm finding and what is happening over there....

[lunokhod2]

I see huntercoin that has a genuinely innovative project.

PoZ: Proof of Zebra. Mine Huntercoin killing zebras in Africa with Pablo

My name is not pablo anymore.

If some variation of the huntercoin mining technique were incorporated into anc, something that let 1 person with the cheapest pc mine 0.1 usd per day sitting on a park bench, anc would be at a high price within weeks.

Unless anc waits 6 months, when dozens of coins are doing that. Then it willjust playing catch up like it is now.

Dear sock puppet. If someone could mine 0.1 USD sitting on a park bench with the cheapest pc, how much do you think that a professional mining operation would make? Do you think that this would make anoncoin (or any other coin that implemented this idea) safe from a 51% attack, or from the difficulty manipulation we just experienced? It would be great if you could read up on how cryptocurrencies actually work so that we could have a more informed discussion here.

[tljenson]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

[K1773R]

As an update, alot of invalid TXs got mined by me, seems someone was waiting for some huge amount of ANC from craptsy:

http://ancblockchain.com/block/976247b1d752cc051539152fbdad062754ccac176694058bf1345bc21ddc6c93

[newuser01]

This attack shows how using a myriad of AuXPoW chains could avoid this problem.  As by using a myriad of chains then the attacker would need to attack more than one chain.  While using AuxPoW with the biggest coin on each chain would greatly increase the network hashrate.  I think you should quickly adopt AuxPoW with litecoin how Dogecoin has just done so to help stop any potential future attacks.  Then the myriad with NeoScrypt Feathercoin merge-mining and Lyra2 Vertcoin merged-mining can brought in a later date.  Plus it may be worth including Cryptonight Monero AuxPoW with the myriad.  Plus possibly X11 Darkcoin merge-mining included in the Myriad.  To have a total of three to up to possibly five myriad chains all in AuxPoW with the biggest networked coin on each chain.  As with a myriad of five chains then an attacker would need to control three of the five AuxPoW chains to control the network.

This

[SmokingSkull]

As an update, alot of invalid TXs got mined by me, seems someone was waiting for some huge amount of ANC from craptsy:

http://ancblockchain.com/block/976247b1d752cc051539152fbdad062754ccac176694058bf1345bc21ddc6c93

I wished so much it was "a702d4f6530ec40e3bde6b14f24511b222cb8fb2ef88e721d26f35fea57d0d91"

still isn't mined it seems. It's 7 Days now. I mean O_o how stuck are these Blocks?

[Coinhunter32]

Talk & trolling thread. All that was posted in this thread should lie in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309716.0 now.



Anoncoin 0.8.5.6 is released!

Windows and OSX binaries are released here:
https://anoncoin.net/index.php/downloads

Changelog:
https://anoncoin.net/blog/?p=45



You can also style your client with CSS. Put a CSS file inside your anoncoin config dir, like default.css, and then add style=default.css to load the stylesheet! Link to CSS reference is here: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/stylesheet.html

How many of these coins are we gonna see?It's good as long as no scams and trustworthy developers are coming up with these things

[Brilliantrocket]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

[entertheabyss]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

lol, what are you shilling for? Anoncoin is using RSA-UFO for a 100% trustless setup.

Source:
- https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
- http://f3.tiera.ru/2/Cs_Computer%20science/CsLn_Lecture%20notes/I/Information%20and%20Communication%20Security,%202%20conf.,%20ICICS%2799(LNCS1726,%20Springer,%201999)(ISBN%203540666826)(334s)_CsLn_.pdf
- https://github.com/Anoncoin/ufo_client

[Brilliantrocket]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

lol, what are you shilling for? Anoncoin is using RSA-UFO for a 100% trustless setup.

Source:
- https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
- http://f3.tiera.ru/2/Cs_Computer%20science/CsLn_Lecture%20notes/I/Information%20and%20Communication%20Security,%202%20conf.,%20ICICS%2799(LNCS1726,%20Springer,%201999)(ISBN%203540666826)(334s)_CsLn_.pdf
- https://github.com/Anoncoin/ufo_client

Like I said, other solutions won't have any doubts regarding loopholes . I wouldn't touch any currency utilizing zero knowledge proofs with a ten foot pole.

[K1773R]

As an update, alot of invalid TXs got mined by me, seems someone was waiting for some huge amount of ANC from craptsy:

http://ancblockchain.com/block/976247b1d752cc051539152fbdad062754ccac176694058bf1345bc21ddc6c93

I wished so much it was "a702d4f6530ec40e3bde6b14f24511b222cb8fb2ef88e721d26f35fea57d0d91"

still isn't mined it seems. It's 7 Days now. I mean O_o how stuck are these Blocks?

Not stuck, craptsy created "invalid" TXs which are against the rules to be included in blocks by default, probably due to greed so they can pay less fee. For the BTC network this works as other ppl do the same as i do.
Also i dont really have that much hashrate, so it takes a while.
Currently there are 84 unconfirmed TXs, il continue to create those blocks until all the TXs are gone.
For the future, stop using craptsy, i wont do this over and over again becase they are too stupid and violate the basic rules.

PS: i have your unconfirmed TX, therefore it will be sooner or later included into one of my blocks.

Code:

$ anoncoind  getrawmempool | grep a702
    "a702d4f6530ec40e3bde6b14f24511b222cb8fb2ef88e721d26f35fea57d0d91",

[SmokingSkull]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

lol, what are you shilling for? Anoncoin is using RSA-UFO for a 100% trustless setup.

Source:
- https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
- http://f3.tiera.ru/2/Cs_Computer%20science/CsLn_Lecture%20notes/I/Information%20and%20Communication%20Security,%202%20conf.,%20ICICS%2799(LNCS1726,%20Springer,%201999)(ISBN%203540666826)(334s)_CsLn_.pdf
- https://github.com/Anoncoin/ufo_client

Like I said, other solutions won't have any doubts regarding loopholes . I wouldn't touch any currency utilizing zero knowledge proofs with a ten foot pole.

find a solution without any loopholes and be a millionaire. It will happen later than sooner. The Idea of Zerocoin and Zerocash is at last a big step forward.

Not touching a currency utilizing zero knowledge proofs with a ten foot pole is a great deal while touching any other Coin / Virtual currency. ^^

[K1773R]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

lol, what are you shilling for? Anoncoin is using RSA-UFO for a 100% trustless setup.

Source:
- https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
- http://f3.tiera.ru/2/Cs_Computer%20science/CsLn_Lecture%20notes/I/Information%20and%20Communication%20Security,%202%20conf.,%20ICICS%2799(LNCS1726,%20Springer,%201999)(ISBN%203540666826)(334s)_CsLn_.pdf
- https://github.com/Anoncoin/ufo_client

Like I said, other solutions won't have any doubts regarding loopholes . I wouldn't touch any currency utilizing zero knowledge proofs with a ten foot pole.

If you dont understand something and if your scared, dont blame it on the technology. This is your fault after all.

[Brilliantrocket]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

lol, what are you shilling for? Anoncoin is using RSA-UFO for a 100% trustless setup.

Source:
- https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
- http://f3.tiera.ru/2/Cs_Computer%20science/CsLn_Lecture%20notes/I/Information%20and%20Communication%20Security,%202%20conf.,%20ICICS%2799(LNCS1726,%20Springer,%201999)(ISBN%203540666826)(334s)_CsLn_.pdf
- https://github.com/Anoncoin/ufo_client

Like I said, other solutions won't have any doubts regarding loopholes . I wouldn't touch any currency utilizing zero knowledge proofs with a ten foot pole.

If you dont understand something and if your scared, dont blame it on the technology. This is your fault after all.

Ok, as an example let's consider ring signatures. A solution that provides cryptographically guaranteed anonymity without the risk of keys that can create unlimited coins. Who in their right mind would prefer Zerocoin/Zerocash? Let's use a gas tank in a car as an analogy. Would you prefer a gas tank that has a hole, which has a metal plate welded over it, or one without any hole to begin with? The metal plate should theoretically prevent leaks, but who would choose it over a tank with no hole to begin with?

[K1773R]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

lol, what are you shilling for? Anoncoin is using RSA-UFO for a 100% trustless setup.

Source:
- https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
- http://f3.tiera.ru/2/Cs_Computer%20science/CsLn_Lecture%20notes/I/Information%20and%20Communication%20Security,%202%20conf.,%20ICICS%2799(LNCS1726,%20Springer,%201999)(ISBN%203540666826)(334s)_CsLn_.pdf
- https://github.com/Anoncoin/ufo_client

Like I said, other solutions won't have any doubts regarding loopholes . I wouldn't touch any currency utilizing zero knowledge proofs with a ten foot pole.

If you dont understand something and if your scared, dont blame it on the technology. This is your fault after all.

Ok, as an example let's consider ring signatures. A solution that provides cryptographically guaranteed anonymity without the risk of keys that can create unlimited coins. Who in their right mind would prefer Zerocoin/Zerocash? Let's use a gas tank in a car as an analogy. Would you prefer a gas tank that has a hole, which has a metal plate welded over it, or one without any hole to begin with? The metal plate should theoretically prevent leaks, but who would choose it over a tank with no hole to begin with?

Valid arguments

The risk of creating unlimited coins exist aslong its not properly implemented or there is a failure @ creating the RSA UFO. I wouldnt prefer zerocash because its centralized and those ppl can create unlimited coins w/o proof they did, which unlike in Zerocoin isnt the case.
Only after its implemented and tested we will know more about this, otherwise it will be only theoretical. Nobody said you have to buy ANC and use ZC. If you/we/whoever isnt willing learn from mistakes and dares to make mistakes, then we all would get really really stupid.

Good to see some well done criticism!

[lunokhod2]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

What about the implementation of zero coin. I've heard that holds the real promise of anonymity

Both Zerocoin and Zerocash are abject trash until they demonstrate that the necessary key can be created in a trustless manner. I doubt that is possible. Even if it is, there will always be a degree of doubt. The consequences of such a key being retained and misused would be disastrous. Why even take the risk when there are other solutions without this issue? Perhaps zero knowledge proofs will have some applications, but a cryptocurrency is not one of them.

lol, what are you shilling for? Anoncoin is using RSA-UFO for a 100% trustless setup.

Source:
- https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
- http://f3.tiera.ru/2/Cs_Computer%20science/CsLn_Lecture%20notes/I/Information%20and%20Communication%20Security,%202%20conf.,%20ICICS%2799(LNCS1726,%20Springer,%201999)(ISBN%203540666826)(334s)_CsLn_.pdf
- https://github.com/Anoncoin/ufo_client

Like I said, other solutions won't have any doubts regarding loopholes . I wouldn't touch any currency utilizing zero knowledge proofs with a ten foot pole.

If you dont understand something and if your scared, dont blame it on the technology. This is your fault after all.

Ok, as an example let's consider ring signatures. A solution that provides cryptographically guaranteed anonymity without the risk of keys that can create unlimited coins. Who in their right mind would prefer Zerocoin/Zerocash? Let's use a gas tank in a car as an analogy. Would you prefer a gas tank that has a hole, which has a metal plate welded over it, or one without any hole to begin with? The metal plate should theoretically prevent leaks, but who would choose it over a tank with no hole to begin with?

Hey there. You are 100% correct about zerocash. There is a major risk that the security keys could be compromised, and the worst part is that no one would even know it. This will be a major impediment to it being adopted.

However, Anoncoin is not implementing zerocash: They are implementing zerocoin, and the two are not the same. A very brief description of the differences between the two is given here: https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Zerocash.

I think that when you look into this in just a little more detail, that you will find there is no risk in zerocoin. The question is actually very simple. Zerocoin needs to generate a number N that is equal to the product of two prime numbers P and Q, all while not divulging P or Q to anyone, including the person that pick the number N. It turns out that you can in fact do this. Yes, the proof is a little technical (see Sander 1999), but it is not controversial. Zero-knowledge proofs are not controversial either, this is all well established, and if you have a bit of patience, you should be able to grasp the basics in this article: https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Zero-knowledge_proof

Lastly, ring signatures are good, but they do not really offer "anonymity". I think that this is the best on the market right now. However, how many signatures contribute to the ring signature? The probability of guessing who sent the transaction is simply 1 divided by this number.