Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[fuckbuddy]

edit: after reading thru some info about the work you are doing, I will invest in ANONCOIN also. Keep up the good work and , good luck with zerocoin implementation.

Welcome to the Matrix...

 

[entertheabyss]

I'm willing to commit 10,000USD towards building a darknet ANC marketplace/exchange once AnonCoin Implements ZeroCoin

[meeh]

Meeh,

Will Anoncoin be moved to the Privacy Solutions Project (http://privacysolutions.no/), just as i2pd and Absconde bundle have? Maybe there is a good reason to keep the two separate.

The organization is created to benefit both Anoncoin and Monero. I and fluffypony have talked a lot, and we're working on better privacy solutions for you guys, instead of arguing with eachother about who got the biggest dick on bitcointalk.

Currently we see no reason to merge the project into the organization. Anoncoin starts to get good organized anyway now IMO.

[meeh]

Dear meeh and Gnosis:

The value of Anoncoin depends on Zerocoin and I2P rather than  something else,Cryptonote is quite a different set of protocol which differs from bitcoin protocol and it has been implemented by  XMR BBR QCN,etc.To implement Zerocoin is always our top priority.Don't doubt this point,please.
Considering the fierce competition of the Altcoin world,it is necessary for us to finish the task as soon as possible instead of  postponing again and again.ANC community is a powerful group,We have many distinguished members such as lunokhod2 n00n geekz ILoveAnon,,,they do a lot of work for the community.I think we all like your geek spirit,for me, this is the spirit of Liberty.This is the reason I became a member of the community.I believe we will win.COME ON.

Don't worry. As I said I will focus on implementing ZC on the testnet, and the RSA-UFO generation is an ongoing process. As of right now I'm working on it, but  there is a lot to think about, and I need to fully understand for example this paper; https://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/ninghui/courses/Fall04/lectures/commit.pdf .. So programming for me evolved from just writing code to actual write tests, do math with pen&paper, etc the moment I decided to help Gnosis and speedup the process by doing what I can.

[meeh]

Everyone says their own anonymity coin is best. So which is really best? It is safe to say that all of the public anonymity systems, including zerocoin, have many people rushing work on them to put a coin out quickly. Is there something about gnosis or snoncoin that makes its version better than others? There is not. We can argue back and forth, it gets kind of boring though.

The funny thing here is that I've never said Anoncoin is better than the others. I've just made it clear that Anoncoin can run over I2P, and that I will do my best on working with solutions for privacy for end users. However, I've been hash on people claiming having implementations they don't.

[meeh]

Everyone says their own anonymity coin is best. So which is really best? It is safe to say that all of the public anonymity systems, including zerocoin, have many people rushing work on them to put a coin out quickly. Is there something about gnosis or snoncoin that makes its version better than others? There is not. We can argue back and forth, it gets kind of boring though.

The funny thing here is that I've never said Anoncoin is better than the others. I've just made it clear that Anoncoin can run over I2P, and that I will do my best on working with solutions for privacy for end users. However, I've been hash on people claiming having implementations they don't.

I didn't mean you. Too many people are suggesting though that zerocoin is going to be the best thing about anoncoin. You have been very clear that you are flexible on everything and have a broad view. I meant supporters of anoncoin, darkcoin, monero, bytecoin, etc each say "our coin is best", turning the playing field into a mud bath.

I've just made it clear that Anoncoin can run over I2P, and that I will do my best on working with solutions for privacy for end users.

One of the best humble quotes on this forum so far.

Yes to tired to argue right now

[entertheabyss]

This is an simplified summery of current anonymity approaches of different altcoins.

Simpler Approaches:

Cloakcoin - No cryptographic literature or code base to review. Several possible flaws with proposed POSA have been unanswered.

CoinJoin & derivatives - Join multiple transaction inputs and outputs. Anonymity limited to size of Mixing Pool. If implemented correctly does not require trust. Vulnerable to syble attack and sophisticated blockchain analysis.

DarkCoin - Based on CoinJoin, Uses limited number of "MasterNodes". Still Closed Source. MasterNodes could be compromised.


More Sophisticated Methods:

CryptoNote & derivatives - Use Ring Signatures. Anonymity limited to number of keys on the ring. The more keys the more anonymous. Using more keys requires a higher computational cost. Larger transaction sizes increase blockchain bloat.

Zerocash - Hides Transactions inputs/outputs and amounts. Uses Susinct Non-Interactive Zero-Knowlage Proofs (Z-Snarks) which require trusted party set initial perimeters. If these parameters were uncovered a malicious agent could forge an unlimited number of completely undetectable transactions.

Zerocoin W/ RSA UFO - Hides transactions through a parallel "zerocoin blockchain" using zero-knowlage proofs. ZeroSend transactions are cryptographically sure to be completely anonymous. Uses RSA_UFO's for trustless initial perimeters. High Computational cost. Larger transaction sizes increase blockchain bloat.




Currently implementing Zerocoin with RSA_UFOs is the most secure untraceable trustless method for anonymous transactions proposed.
If Anoncoin had a dick it would be several times larger than anybody else's and verifiable in zeroknowlage.

[lunokhod2]

I'm willing to commit 10,000USD towards building a darknet ANC marketplace/exchange once AnonCoin Implements ZeroCoin

Would this just be a fork of another openmarket (like bitxbay), or would you be starting from scratch?

[K1773R]

Here is a poll on another thread.

What anonymous coin will succeed?
Anoncoin [ANC]    - 10 (1.6%)
Darkcoin [DRK]    - 136 (22.3%)
Fedoracoin [TIPS]    - 4 (0.7%)
Other    - 11 (1.8%)
Bytecoin [BCN]    - 9 (1.5%)
Zerocash    - 4 (0.7%)
Monero [XMR]    - 67 (11%)
HoneyPenny [HP]    - 1 (0.2%)
Libertycoin [XLB]    - 2 (0.3%)
Quazarcoin [QCN]    - 0 (0%)
Fantomcoin [FCN]    - 0 (0%)
Pinkcoin [PC]    - 2 (0.3%)
Cryptcoin [CRYPT]    - 18 (3%)
Orangecoin [OC]    - 0 (0%)
Cinnicoin [CINNI]    - 3 (0.5%)
Vericoin [VRC]    - 10 (1.6%)
BitcoinDark [BTCD]    - 15 (2.5%)
Cloakcoin [CLOAK]    - 111 (18.2%)
XC [XC]    - 64 (10.5%)
VootCoin [VOOT]    - 27 (4.4%)
Vertcoin [VTC]    - 20 (3.3%)
Supercoin [SUPERCOIN]    - 4 (0.7%)
Credits [CRD]    - 2 (0.3%)
MammothCoin [MAMM]    - 3 (0.5%)
Boolberycoin [BBR]    - 5 (0.8%)
Aerocoin [AERO]    - 7 (1.1%)
Stealthcoin [XST]    - 24 (3.9%)
Synccoin [SYNC]    - 1 (0.2%)
Incognitocoin [IGC]    - 12 (2%)
Keycoin [KEY]    - 14 (2.3%)
Lockcoin [LOCK]    - 13 (2.1%)
Boomcoin [BOOM]    - 10 (1.6%)

There are several new anonymous coins coming every week now. Soon it will be several a day.

Here is a summary of the argument I have been trying to make one last time. Then I will terminate the luigi persona and try to be polite under a different username.

Imagine two coins and decide which is likely to succeed.

Anoncoin 1. The current anoncoin. Tries to emphasize a superior anonymity protocol, as many coins do. Tries to take a conservative approach, not ruffle feathers, as most coins do. Aside from working with monero in a mainstream political way there is nothing at this point that distinguishes anoncoin from any other coin except its history.

Anoncoin 2. A coin that takes aggressive political stances and overtly intends to be used for political purposes. Goes after markets in countries with tight financial restrictions. Top priority is to be used globally in any language, culture etc, rather than seeming to focus on people who hide money for criminal or comfort reasons or most of the other reasons Americans and Europeans most commonly might use an anonymous currency for. Primary focus is financial ethics with no regard or respect for national laws that contradict its goals.

Only one of those two coins would succeed. Anoncoin right now, with no real goals beyond making some money for its holders, is doing exactly the same thing as a hundred other coins. It is digital mediocrity like most coins.

Turning it into a successful coin that will survive only requires the devs and other visible people to decide thats the path the coin will take. Logistics, e.g. "how do you target x country with anoncoin", will be much more easily solved than " how do you beat darkcoin or whatevercoin in the race to a more marketable algorhythm".

Those coins have either fake anonymity, or something like coinjoin/similiar which is worthless.

EDIT: of course with exceptions (zerocash/monero)

[Majormax]

Here is a poll on another thread.

What anonymous coin will succeed?
Anoncoin [ANC]    - 10 (1.6%)
Darkcoin [DRK]    - 136 (22.3%)
Fedoracoin [TIPS]    - 4 (0.7%)
Other    - 11 (1.8%)
Bytecoin [BCN]    - 9 (1.5%)
Zerocash    - 4 (0.7%)
Monero [XMR]    - 67 (11%)
HoneyPenny [HP]    - 1 (0.2%)
Libertycoin [XLB]    - 2 (0.3%)
Quazarcoin [QCN]    - 0 (0%)
Fantomcoin [FCN]    - 0 (0%)
Pinkcoin [PC]    - 2 (0.3%)
Cryptcoin [CRYPT]    - 18 (3%)
Orangecoin [OC]    - 0 (0%)
Cinnicoin [CINNI]    - 3 (0.5%)
Vericoin [VRC]    - 10 (1.6%)
BitcoinDark [BTCD]    - 15 (2.5%)
Cloakcoin [CLOAK]    - 111 (18.2%)
XC [XC]    - 64 (10.5%)
VootCoin [VOOT]    - 27 (4.4%)
Vertcoin [VTC]    - 20 (3.3%)
Supercoin [SUPERCOIN]    - 4 (0.7%)
Credits [CRD]    - 2 (0.3%)
MammothCoin [MAMM]    - 3 (0.5%)
Boolberycoin [BBR]    - 5 (0.8%)
Aerocoin [AERO]    - 7 (1.1%)
Stealthcoin [XST]    - 24 (3.9%)
Synccoin [SYNC]    - 1 (0.2%)
Incognitocoin [IGC]    - 12 (2%)
Keycoin [KEY]    - 14 (2.3%)
Lockcoin [LOCK]    - 13 (2.1%)
Boomcoin [BOOM]    - 10 (1.6%)

There are several new anonymous coins coming every week now. Soon it will be several a day.

Here is a summary of the argument I have been trying to make one last time. Then I will terminate the luigi persona and try to be polite under a different username.

Imagine two coins and decide which is likely to succeed.

Anoncoin 1. The current anoncoin. Tries to emphasize a superior anonymity protocol, as many coins do. Tries to take a conservative approach, not ruffle feathers, as most coins do. Aside from working with monero in a mainstream political way there is nothing at this point that distinguishes anoncoin from any other coin except its history.

Anoncoin 2. A coin that takes aggressive political stances and overtly intends to be used for political purposes. Goes after markets in countries with tight financial restrictions. Top priority is to be used globally in any language, culture etc, rather than seeming to focus on people who hide money for criminal or comfort reasons or most of the other reasons Americans and Europeans most commonly might use an anonymous currency for. Primary focus is financial ethics with no regard or respect for national laws that contradict its goals.

Only one of those two coins would succeed. Anoncoin right now, with no real goals beyond making some money for its holders, is doing exactly the same thing as a hundred other coins. It is digital mediocrity like most coins.

Turning it into a successful coin that will survive only requires the devs and other visible people to decide thats the path the coin will take. Logistics, e.g. "how do you target x country with anoncoin", will be much more easily solved than " how do you beat darkcoin or whatevercoin in the race to a more marketable algorhythm".

Fair summary, thanks.

It is another competition in the same way that many crypto features have been.

Call it an Arms Race, or a Beauty Parade, but it is not a simple matter to predict the winner.

[entertheabyss]

I'm willing to commit 10,000USD towards building a darknet ANC marketplace/exchange once AnonCoin Implements ZeroCoin

Would this just be a fork of another openmarket (like bitxbay), or would you be starting from scratch?

Mosy likely based off OT.

[niteglider]

Here is a poll on another thread.

What anonymous coin will succeed?
Anoncoin [ANC]    - 10 (1.6%)
Darkcoin [DRK]    - 136 (22.3%)
Fedoracoin [TIPS]    - 4 (0.7%)
Other    - 11 (1.8%)
Bytecoin [BCN]    - 9 (1.5%)
Zerocash    - 4 (0.7%)
Monero [XMR]    - 67 (11%)
HoneyPenny [HP]    - 1 (0.2%)
Libertycoin [XLB]    - 2 (0.3%)
Quazarcoin [QCN]    - 0 (0%)
Fantomcoin [FCN]    - 0 (0%)
Pinkcoin [PC]    - 2 (0.3%)
Cryptcoin [CRYPT]    - 18 (3%)
Orangecoin [OC]    - 0 (0%)
Cinnicoin [CINNI]    - 3 (0.5%)
Vericoin [VRC]    - 10 (1.6%)
BitcoinDark [BTCD]    - 15 (2.5%)
Cloakcoin [CLOAK]    - 111 (18.2%)
XC [XC]    - 64 (10.5%)
VootCoin [VOOT]    - 27 (4.4%)
Vertcoin [VTC]    - 20 (3.3%)
Supercoin [SUPERCOIN]    - 4 (0.7%)
Credits [CRD]    - 2 (0.3%)
MammothCoin [MAMM]    - 3 (0.5%)
Boolberycoin [BBR]    - 5 (0.8%)
Aerocoin [AERO]    - 7 (1.1%)
Stealthcoin [XST]    - 24 (3.9%)
Synccoin [SYNC]    - 1 (0.2%)
Incognitocoin [IGC]    - 12 (2%)
Keycoin [KEY]    - 14 (2.3%)
Lockcoin [LOCK]    - 13 (2.1%)
Boomcoin [BOOM]    - 10 (1.6%)

There are several new anonymous coins coming every week now. Soon it will be several a day.

Here is a summary of the argument I have been trying to make one last time. Then I will terminate the luigi persona and try to be polite under a different username.

Imagine two coins and decide which is likely to succeed.

Anoncoin 1. The current anoncoin. Tries to emphasize a superior anonymity protocol, as many coins do. Tries to take a conservative approach, not ruffle feathers, as most coins do. Aside from working with monero in a mainstream political way there is nothing at this point that distinguishes anoncoin from any other coin except its history.

Anoncoin 2. A coin that takes aggressive political stances and overtly intends to be used for political purposes. Goes after markets in countries with tight financial restrictions. Top priority is to be used globally in any language, culture etc, rather than seeming to focus on people who hide money for criminal or comfort reasons or most of the other reasons Americans and Europeans most commonly might use an anonymous currency for. Primary focus is financial ethics with no regard or respect for national laws that contradict its goals.

Only one of those two coins would succeed. Anoncoin right now, with no real goals beyond making some money for its holders, is doing exactly the same thing as a hundred other coins. It is digital mediocrity like most coins.

Turning it into a successful coin that will survive only requires the devs and other visible people to decide thats the path the coin will take. Logistics, e.g. "how do you target x country with anoncoin", will be much more easily solved than " how do you beat darkcoin or whatevercoin in the race to a more marketable algorhythm".

This is what I am getting from the ANC situation and its history:

The devs are focusing on making an anonymous coin which is actually anonymous.  That is the focus at the moment. 

Many other hide-a-coin wannabes are focusing on making claims which they can't back up.  Some of those coins are making significant headway into the markets which really need a hide-a-coin, but since they are shams they will ultimately fail- unless they can pull off the actual and real anonymous feature which the world really needs, and do it before they are discovered as sham coins and discarded by the public.

ANC came out swinging, as you've noted.  They have a foundation and history of pursuing the hide-a-coin for the reasons most of the (aware) public need such a coin.

My belief (and the reason I've never sold a single ANC) is that the ANC devs realized wisely that making unsubstantiated claims (or appearing to make such claims, or taking a position such that others can accuse them of such claims) will ultimately harm their project if they are too widely accepted as a valid hide-a-coin before the project is finished and true anonymity is provided.

Personally, I don't mind that the ANC devs are just faces in a huge crowd at the moment.  It's makes coins cheaper and mining easier for me.  I hope more than I could express that they get the job done quickly, and get it done right.

Once the anonymous goal has been reached, then you can count on a marketing blitz.  Then uncounted numbers of us will be out there beating the drums.  Then we can make valid claims which no one else can make, and no one can refute.

And I hope that once the project has reached it's current goal, that the devs will once again embrace the mask and all the political clout that goes with it.  This will wake up the rest of the world.  This will make the ANC the most valuable currency (of all currencies) on the market (in all markets) almost over night.  And as long as the anonymous feature continues to work (once it does), the value of ANC can only increase.

That's my take.  Think about it.  If the devs had blown their credibility by gaining trust before they were sure they could deliver, then ANCs would be worth millionths of pennies instead of dimes.

[niteglider]

2013 At most 5 coins indicate plans to seek perfect anonymity.
Q1 2014 (January to March 2014) Roughly 5 coins...
Q2 2014 Roughly 10 to 20 coins...
Q3 2014 (current quarter) At least 80 coins expected seeking perfect anonymity.

By end of 2014 probably many hundreds of coins claiming high quality anonymity, and big name crypto experts moving into the field of coins to work on new algos.

As for the devs credibility, when they dropped the mask they lost it. They jumped into the jello pit to wrestle over "which coin is most anonymous".

 Gold was 100% anonymous, until it wasn't.

 Diamonds too until they could be individually scanned and traced.  See a pattern?

Then the USD, highly liquid and anonymous, until it wasn't any more. See a pattern?

Then bitcoin, utterly untraceable, highly liquid, perfect anonymity, until it wasn't. See a pattern yet???

Anoncoin has become one more yawncoin looking to cash in quickly on a fool's grail.

And what you are illustrating is a hunger in the market for the authentic currency with privacy intact.

I don't think the dropping of the mask had anything to do with loss of credibility, in fact I don't perceive any loss in credibility whatsoever.
Just the opposite is true, the devs showed that they don't need to hide behind a marketing gimmick.

As for, "looking to cash in quickly on a fool's grail," I call bullshit.  There is no activity at all toward pump and dump.
Either you have an agenda, have no clue, or are just plain stupid.

[geekz]

Added the much needed feature in ANC blockexplorer's transaction pages.
You can now see number of confirmations of each transactions.
eg:  http://ancblockchain.com/tx/4d1ef4201eeed5edcce9d9a4040e1c5f2f4de562157c0e54860dcadfa9e4aa03

[n00n]

Imagine two coins and decide which is likely to succeed.

Anoncoin 1. The current anoncoin. Tries to emphasize a superior anonymity protocol, as many coins do. Tries to take a conservative approach, not ruffle feathers, as most coins do. Aside from working with monero in a mainstream political way there is nothing at this point that distinguishes anoncoin from any other coin except its history.

Anoncoin 2. A coin that takes aggressive political stances and overtly intends to be used for political purposes. Goes after markets in countries with tight financial restrictions. Top priority is to be used globally in any language, culture etc, rather than seeming to focus on people who hide money for criminal or comfort reasons or most of the other reasons Americans and Europeans most commonly might use an anonymous currency for. Primary focus is financial ethics with no regard or respect for national laws that contradict its goals.

Only one of those two coins would succeed. Anoncoin right now, with no real goals beyond making some money for its holders, is doing exactly the same thing as a hundred other coins. It is digital mediocrity like most coins.

Turning it into a successful coin that will survive only requires the devs and other visible people to decide thats the path the coin will take. Logistics, e.g. "how do you target x country with anoncoin", will be much more easily solved than " how do you beat darkcoin or whatevercoin in the race to a more marketable algorhythm".

Couldnt be better (for us or them) if we got supressed activists to start use anoncoin. Maybe you can work on this?

We should point out that anoncoin is made by hacktivists, community, or some better description (opposed to some buisness company) for the economically opressed/hunted/tracked/blocked people... )

[Vlad2Vlad]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

[niteglider]

A coin have two sides. Why not using it to keep the mask on heads and the new one "A" on tails?
We could create the first 3D cryptocoin to find a compromise with early and new adopters.

I like this idea, like a rotating coin showing both sides with one side being the mask and the reverse could be whatever.

I prefer the mask, didn't understand why it was changed, but never worried about it because the point was to create
a functionally anonymous currency, and  I think the ANC devs are way ahead of the game.

Already we are going with I2P, and after adding zerocoin, ANC will market itself. 

While I don't agree with the guy who seems to think that marketing is everything, I do think that the mask helps with
a certain crowd who is likely to want to use ANC a *lot*.

[niteglider]

With the exception of CryptoNote no other anon coin offers even a remote chance at real anonymity.  Nothing but gimmicks.

I'm pretty stunned at how many people are paying big money for CrapCoins for gimmicks like DARK, BitcoinDark, etc...

Cryptonote started with bytecoin. We already know bytecoin released fake names as its key devs, along with probably fake bios. The release of that first cn coin has huge questions around it, including whether its early blockchain is even real. Some of the promotional material of that first cryptonote coin was done in a way that copied exactly the presentation style of government projects. Not one early buyer or miner has stepped forward.

I don't know anything about cryptography but I'd be cautious.

So is your problem that you bought high and are afraid that you will never get your BTC back out of ANC?  

Better sell now, before your prediction comes true and you lose even more.  

How much ANC do you have and what do you want for them?

[n00n]

PerritoPeron
i like your engagement, although i dont get what you think should be done (not what shoulnt be done). maybe you could sum it up?


i think the dev teams reason to change from the Anonymous logo is that anoncoin is not affiliated with Anonymous, it isnt "their" coin. anoncoin can be used by Anonymous, or your grandmother. with this attitude its misleading to use Anonymous logo.

[n00n]

it would make the search engines happy if all of us added clickable links to https://anoncoin.net and https://wiki.anoncoin.net in our message footer here on bitcointalk.

the best is to make describing keywords like "anoncoin", "anonymous altcoin", "tor cryptocurrency" "anonymous bitcoin alternative" into clickable links, instead of a clickable URL "https://anoncoin.net", like this:

Code:

[url=https://anoncoin.net]Anoncoin[/url]

i have a limit of 50 characters in my footer, some people has more characters than that, maybe they are higher ranked than me?
then you can add https://anoncoin.net as your website in the profile settings instead.

its also good to know that search engine crawlers get excited if DOMAIN A links to DOMAIN B that links to DOMAIN C that links back to DOMAIN A. this 3 (or more) domain link circle gives trust and high relevance to the domains as the search engine likes that the domains are existing in a bigger context. much better than "me and my friend" DOMAIN A to B to A.

with this in mind its good to add links to domains that links to anoncoin.net.