Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[matthewh3]

What is the meaning of "three of five chain myriad" , please?

Basically our current PoW system has a number of weaknesses as discussed in this thread. Here is an issue about how Dogecoin switched to AuxPow to address some of the problems we are having:

http://www.coindesk.com/dogecoin-allow-litecoin-merge-mining/

I think he means three or five chain myriad.  Look at how Myriadcoin works having not one but many blockchains.  Anoncoin is doing something similar except with merged-mine auxPoW chains.  Similar to how Dogecoin is now merged-mined with Llitecoin and how Namecoin is merged-mined with Bitcoin.  Using a three chain myriad an attacker would need to control two of the three chains to pull a 51% attack or similar control of the coins networks.  Using a five chain myriad an attacker would need to control three of the five chains to pull a 51% attack or similar.  Also by using multiple chains we avoid a lot other problems that are affecting Anoncoin now.  Like multipools jumping on and off the only chain as they would either be two or four other chains hashing away.  Depending on whether a three or five chain myriad is implemented.  Using auxPoW merged-mine chains we'll poach a lot of miners off these large chains to also merged-mine Anoncoin at no extra costs.  

This is the explanation I wanted. Thanks a ton !

So it makes sense to set up the auxPoW with bigger chains as they already have lots of miners who'd potentially also mine Anoncoin for free.  It makes sense to auxPoW on Scrypt as Anocoin is currently Scrypt plus the Litecoin chain is secure and the network large.  So anyone who mines Litecoin and Dogecoin could then also mine Anoncoin for free.  Then it makes sense to have a second chain focused on CPU mining.  So either Primes or Cryptonight.  Then a GPU chain also of which the upcoming NeoScrypt looks like it will be the largest GPU network chain.  Although there is also Scrypt-N Vertcoin which is soon to change to Lyra2 algorithm to look at as well.  So you could have a Scrypt ASIC chain plus a Cryptonight or Primes CPU chain and a NeoScrypt GPU chain for a three chain myriad.  Or for a five chain myriad, Scrypt, Primes, Cryptonight, NeoScrypt and Lyra2  For one Scrypt ASIC chain, plus one or two CPU chains and either one or two GPU chains.

Got it !

Only Vertcoin which is soon to change to Lyra2 is the only coin mentioned committed on sticking to GPU mining that's why I mentioned it in preference of Maxcoin Keyack chain.  Which could easily have an ASIC designed for if the coin became valuable enough to do so.  I also feel that Feathercoin with NeoScrypt would go ASIC if the economics made sense.  While Monero the current largest Cryptonight coin seem pretty committed to CPU mining.  I'm not too sure on Primecoin's commitment to staying only CPU as I think they'd welcome a Primes hashing ASIC.  There is also SHA-256d auxPoW to work to look at but most of the Bitcoin pools only hash BTC and NMC while ignoring the rest of the SHA-256d auxPoW coins.  With the exception of GHash.io, mmpool and some P2Pool miners.  Who do mine all the SHA256d auxPoW coins that work well atleast.

[Simcom]

So it makes sense to set up the auxPoW with bigger chains as they already have lots of miners who'd potentially also mine Anoncoin for free.  It makes sense to auxPoW on Scrypt as Anocoin is currently Scrypt plus the Litecoin chain is secure and the network large.  So anyone who mines Litecoin and Dogecoin could then also mine Anoncoin for free.  Then it makes sense to have a second chain focused on CPU mining.  So either Primes or Cryptonight.  Then a GPU chain also of which the upcoming NeoScrypt looks like it will be the largest GPU network chain.  Although there is also Scrypt-N Vertcoin which is soon to change to Lyra2 algorithm to look at as well.  So you could have a Scrypt ASIC chain plus a Cryptonight or Primes CPU chain and a NeoScrypt GPU chain for a three chain myriad.  Or for a five chain myriad, Scrypt, Primes, Cryptonight, NeoScrypt and Lyra2  For one Scrypt ASIC chain, plus one or two CPU chains and either one or two GPU chains.

Just a quick correction - Cryptonight is largely GPU mined at the moment (google "Claymore GPU miner").

[Simcom]

AuxPOW + Myraid sounds super complicated - has Meeh confirmed that this is what the plan is?  I agree that this is definitely a good thing for the coin, as long as Meeh feels confident that it can be implemented without issue. Most important is maybe a switch from kgw to some other retargeting algo (I assume there are retargeting algos that might fix this issue of large difficulty spikes from block to block). Maybe dark gravity well?

[K1773R]

AuxPOW + Myraid sounds super complicated - has Meeh confirmed that this is what the plan is?  I agree that this is definitely a good thing for the coin, as long as Meeh feels confident that it can be implemented without issue. Most important is maybe a switch from kgw to some other retargeting algo (I assume there are retargeting algos that might fix this issue of large difficulty spikes from block to block). Maybe dark gravity well?

I say the same thing as the last time, before we switched to KGW. Ther eis no susch thing that protects from high hashrate spikes and never will be...

[Simcom]

AuxPOW + Myraid sounds super complicated - has Meeh confirmed that this is what the plan is?  I agree that this is definitely a good thing for the coin, as long as Meeh feels confident that it can be implemented without issue. Most important is maybe a switch from kgw to some other retargeting algo (I assume there are retargeting algos that might fix this issue of large difficulty spikes from block to block). Maybe dark gravity well?

I say the same thing as the last time, before we switched to KGW. Ther eis no susch thing that protects from high hashrate spikes and never will be...

Alright fair enough - I guess auxPOW is the best solution then.

[matthewh3]

So it makes sense to set up the auxPoW with bigger chains as they already have lots of miners who'd potentially also mine Anoncoin for free.  It makes sense to auxPoW on Scrypt as Anocoin is currently Scrypt plus the Litecoin chain is secure and the network large.  So anyone who mines Litecoin and Dogecoin could then also mine Anoncoin for free.  Then it makes sense to have a second chain focused on CPU mining.  So either Primes or Cryptonight.  Then a GPU chain also of which the upcoming NeoScrypt looks like it will be the largest GPU network chain.  Although there is also Scrypt-N Vertcoin which is soon to change to Lyra2 algorithm to look at as well.  So you could have a Scrypt ASIC chain plus a Cryptonight or Primes CPU chain and a NeoScrypt GPU chain for a three chain myriad.  Or for a five chain myriad, Scrypt, Primes, Cryptonight, NeoScrypt and Lyra2  For one Scrypt ASIC chain, plus one or two CPU chains and either one or two GPU chains.

Just a quick correction - Cryptonight is largely GPU mined at the moment (google "Claymore GPU miner").

You can get over 56H/s on four threads of an eight threaded 20W TDP Atom CPU.  That's probably as good as any GPU efficiency wise mining Cryptonight.  Also there's no opensource or Linux ATI Cryptonight miner.  While most large GPU miners use both ATI and Linux.  GPU mining Cryptonight doesn't seem any more efficient on GPU than CPU it's probably about the same efficiency wise.  Just that you tend to throw a lot more watts into a GPU than CPU.  I'd argue that most of Monero's hashrate comes from botnets.

[matthewh3]

AuxPOW + Myraid sounds super complicated - has Meeh confirmed that this is what the plan is?  I agree that this is definitely a good thing for the coin, as long as Meeh feels confident that it can be implemented without issue. Most important is maybe a switch from kgw to some other retargeting algo (I assume there are retargeting algos that might fix this issue of large difficulty spikes from block to block). Maybe dark gravity well?

I say the same thing as the last time, before we switched to KGW. Ther eis no susch thing that protects from high hashrate spikes and never will be...

Alright fair enough - I guess auxPOW is the best solution then.

Yes as even using a myriad the network difficulty is set from the chain with the highest difficulty.  So to pick chains with the biggest and steadiest hashrate to auxPoW with is the best solution.

[K1773R]

AuxPOW + Myraid sounds super complicated - has Meeh confirmed that this is what the plan is?  I agree that this is definitely a good thing for the coin, as long as Meeh feels confident that it can be implemented without issue. Most important is maybe a switch from kgw to some other retargeting algo (I assume there are retargeting algos that might fix this issue of large difficulty spikes from block to block). Maybe dark gravity well?

I say the same thing as the last time, before we switched to KGW. Ther eis no susch thing that protects from high hashrate spikes and never will be...

Alright fair enough - I guess auxPOW is the best solution then.

correct. even better if combined with myriad and alot of hashpower at each PoW.

[Simcom]

Yes as even using a myriad the network difficulty is set from the chain with the highest difficulty.  So to pick chains with the biggest and steadiest hashrate to auxPoW with is the best solution.

Just to clarify, each myriad chain has its own difficulty that floats independent of the other chains. ie there would be no one "network difficulty" but 5 different difficulties that are each floating independent of each other. Also I don't think saying that there are 5 chains is accurate per se - there is still only 1 blockchain just five different ways of adding a block to the chain.

[Simcom]

correct. even better if combined with myriad and alot of hashpower at each PoW.

I apologize I forgot that you are a dev.  Have you all decided that Myraid + auxPoW is the direction anoncoin will take?  And what is the timeline for implementation?  Thanks

[varun555]

correct. even better if combined with myriad and alot of hashpower at each PoW.

I apologize I forgot that you are a dev.  Have you all decided that Myraid + auxPoW is the direction anoncoin will take?  And what is the timeline for implementation?  Thanks

Throw us some bones dev !!!!!!!!

[n00n]

Could someone add the box-info-template-thingy to the anon wiki?

So that an info box like here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

...will appear here:
https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Anoncoin_on_Wikipedia

 

[varun555]

Having mixed feelings at the moment :
ANC price is shying at 1 dollar mark.... so good days ahead

But the network hashrate has gone so ballistic that it is almost impossible to mine !!!!

[matthewh3]

Yes as even using a myriad the network difficulty is set from the chain with the highest difficulty.  So to pick chains with the biggest and steadiest hashrate to auxPoW with is the best solution.

Just to clarify, each myriad chain has its own difficulty that floats independent of the other chains. ie there would be no one "network difficulty" but 5 different difficulties that are each floating independent of each other. Also I don't think saying that there are 5 chains is accurate per se - there is still only 1 blockchain just five different ways of adding a block to the chain.

Yeah but what I meant is the difficulty for finding Anoncoin blocks will be set by the auxPoW chain with the relatively highest difficulty.  Which will be applied across all Anoncoin auxPoW chains in effect.  So if there's a very high auxPoW scrypt hashrate and a relatively much smaller auxPoW NeoScrypt hashrate then more blocks will be found on the 'bigger' Scrypt chain.  Or at least that's as far as I understand Myriadcoin.

[Simcom]

Yes as even using a myriad the network difficulty is set from the chain with the highest difficulty.  So to pick chains with the biggest and steadiest hashrate to auxPoW with is the best solution.

Just to clarify, each myriad chain has its own difficulty that floats independent of the other chains. ie there would be no one "network difficulty" but 5 different difficulties that are each floating independent of each other. Also I don't think saying that there are 5 chains is accurate per se - there is still only 1 blockchain just five different ways of adding a block to the chain.

Yeah but what I meant is the difficulty for finding Anoncoin blocks will be set by the auxPoW chain with the relatively highest difficulty.  Which will be applied across all Anoncoin auxPoW chains in effect.  So if there's a very high auxPoW scrypt hashrate and a relatively much smaller auxPoW NeoScrypt hashrate then more blocks will be found on the 'bigger' Scrypt chain.  Or at least that's as far as I understand Myriadcoin.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Lets say we chose to do 5 algo myriad with a network (total) block time of 1 minute.  Each algo would find a block on average every 5 minutes, and the difficulty of each algo would adjust independently to maintain this 5 minute block time. In aggregate a block would be found across all algos once every 1 minute.  

[Simcom]

Post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190722.0

and ask for ANC to be added to Bitcoinwisdom.com - if enough people post they will probably add us!!

Also if you are new around here make sure to subscribe on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/anoncoin

[GroundRod]

Yes as even using a myriad the network difficulty is set from the chain with the highest difficulty.  So to pick chains with the biggest and steadiest hashrate to auxPoW with is the best solution.

Just to clarify, each myriad chain has its own difficulty that floats independent of the other chains. ie there would be no one "network difficulty" but 5 different difficulties that are each floating independent of each other. Also I don't think saying that there are 5 chains is accurate per se - there is still only 1 blockchain just five different ways of adding a block to the chain.

Yeah but what I meant is the difficulty for finding Anoncoin blocks will be set by the auxPoW chain with the relatively highest difficulty.  Which will be applied across all Anoncoin auxPoW chains in effect.  So if there's a very high auxPoW scrypt hashrate and a relatively much smaller auxPoW NeoScrypt hashrate then more blocks will be found on the 'bigger' Scrypt chain.  Or at least that's as far as I understand Myriadcoin.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Lets say we chose to do 5 algo myriad with a network (total) block time of 1 minute.  Each algo would find a block on average every 5 minutes, and the difficulty of each algo would adjust independently to maintain this 5 minute block time. In aggregate a block would be found across all algos once every 1 minute.  

Hope this helps for those trying to wrap their mind around the concept...
From http://myriadplatform.org/myriadcoin-mining/

The most important concept to understand about Myriad mining is that each of its 5 algorithms will only find about 20% of all the Myriadcoins that will ever be created. In other words, all Myriadcoins get distributed equally among the 5 algorithms just like 5 fives sharing a pie by cutting it into 5 equal pieces. This means that no matter which algorithm you choose to mine Myriadcoins with you are only competing against the other miners using the same algorithm as you.
For example....

In our case substitute 'Myriadcoins' in the above text with zAnc as you read it....

GR

ETA: Simcom has it right. & sure would like to see it added to bitcoinwisdom as well.

[matthewh3]

Yes as even using a myriad the network difficulty is set from the chain with the highest difficulty.  So to pick chains with the biggest and steadiest hashrate to auxPoW with is the best solution.

Just to clarify, each myriad chain has its own difficulty that floats independent of the other chains. ie there would be no one "network difficulty" but 5 different difficulties that are each floating independent of each other. Also I don't think saying that there are 5 chains is accurate per se - there is still only 1 blockchain just five different ways of adding a block to the chain.

Yeah but what I meant is the difficulty for finding Anoncoin blocks will be set by the auxPoW chain with the relatively highest difficulty.  Which will be applied across all Anoncoin auxPoW chains in effect.  So if there's a very high auxPoW scrypt hashrate and a relatively much smaller auxPoW NeoScrypt hashrate then more blocks will be found on the 'bigger' Scrypt chain.  Or at least that's as far as I understand Myriadcoin.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Lets say we chose to do 5 algo myriad with a network (total) block time of 1 minute.  Each algo would find a block on average every 5 minutes, and the difficulty of each algo would adjust independently to maintain this 5 minute block time. In aggregate a block would be found across all algos once every 1 minute.  

Hope this helps for those trying to wrap their mind around the concept...
From http://myriadplatform.org/myriadcoin-mining/

The most important concept to understand about Myriad mining is that each of its 5 algorithms will only find about 20% of all the Myriadcoins that will ever be created. In other words, all Myriadcoins get distributed equally among the 5 algorithms just like 5 fives sharing a pie by cutting it into 5 equal pieces. This means that no matter which algorithm you choose to mine Myriadcoins with you are only competing against the other miners using the same algorithm as you.
For example....

In our case substitute 'Myriadcoins' in the above text with zAnc as you read it....

GR

ETA: Simcom has it right. & sure would like to see it added to bitcoinwisdom as well.

Thanks for that link and quote.

[CryptoClub]

Quite happy I have been mining and buying ANC, guess it can't stay under the radar forever though.

[Simcom]

Quite happy I have been mining and buying ANC, guess it can't stay under the radar forever though.

If Gnosis can deliver (fingers crossed), I'd expect a market cap in line with XMR/DRK, maybe higher. That means we still have 400-1100% or larger increase still ahead of us.