[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[Hunterbunter]

Hunterbunter:
   Nice, it is easier to read that way than in the CSV. Question I have is what data in that file do most people look for when they are reading it? There is a lot in there that does nothing for most people I would think (at least for me).

It's mostly if they want to see a breakdown of why they got the word counts they got. Getting something like a 20 word-count on the account_summary is built up by their rating and popularity, and they can see if those are changing month to month. If they're writing a lot but getting fewer word counts, they'd probably want to know why - eg they might have high ratings but low popularity or vice versa, and they can work on it if they want to improve. I imagine only writers would be interested in this.

[Wekkel]

[...]
I've just found out about https://cryptostocks.com/ while I was thinking "it would be cool if Devcoin would be supported at kickstarter and other crowdfunding sites".
Has anybody used cryptostocks already and can share some insights how it is working?

[...]

I have funneled some DVC coins to Cryptostocks.com just for the fun of it. Cryptostocks.com gives users the ability to submit a project with a (simple) business plan and attract cryptocurrency in return for shares. The shares are issued 'virtual' meaning that the shares are issued and administered via Cryptostocks. There are projects (or 'virtual companies' as you could call them) involving Bitcoin, Litecoin and also DVC. The DVC section is still very small.

Basically, you register with Cryptostocks.com, create a deposit address for DVC and move some DVC in. With this DVC deposit, you can buy shares in existing DVC projects. If a project is operated successfully, dividend will be paid over your shares. How much, when and for how long all depends on the guy that runs the project. That involves simple trust; there is no other security for you as investor.

Shares can be bought and sold at Cryptostocks.com via a simple interface.

I bought shares in the three DVC projects marked in the picture below. I did so on the basis of the past and regular dividends paid, seeking a regular return in DVC to recycle back into new shares. The annual revenue is round and about 5% in DVCs. For me that's about - drum rollz - $10 worth of Devcoins. Better than dumping DVC on the market and a fun way to play with the new possibilities of crypto currency. However, all depends on the owners of listed projects staying honest and continuing to pay out dividends.


link to image

I do not expect my shares to increase in DVC value because the dividend percentage will most likely not change. These projects are about mining which will not lead to increased mining revenue (rather the other way around). I would love to invest in a DVC project that creates revenue from other activities like advertisement, marketing, sale of goods etc. Higher risks, but also a genuine prospect of rising share value.

Of course, I could convert some DVC and invest in a BTC or LTC project that is not about mining. However, I do not want to sell DVC on the market to obtain enough BTC/LTC for that part of the Cryptostocks.com projects. Furthermore, the risk/reward keeps me from investing a lot (again, there is no security that a project owner does not run away).

Happy to elaborate if you have further queries.

[dalamar96]

Hunterbunter:
   Nice, it is easier to read that way than in the CSV. Question I have is what data in that file do most people look for when they are reading it? There is a lot in there that does nothing for most people I would think (at least for me).

It's mostly if they want to see a breakdown of why they got the word counts they got. Getting something like a 20 word-count on the account_summary is built up by their rating and popularity, and they can see if those are changing month to month. If they're writing a lot but getting fewer word counts, they'd probably want to know why - eg they might have high ratings but low popularity or vice versa, and they can work on it if they want to improve. I imagine only writers would be interested in this.

Cool, maybe we can go through the data and figure out exactly what they look at for getting that information and put it on the main page for them. Let me know what you think.

[melodiem]

Kissmyweb.com is delighted to offer webdesign services for Devcoin (and Bitcoin)



Kissmyweb.com is not a new business, we have been around for 8 years - we are not a big business, "we" are me and a group of freelance awesome guys who do custom code when I need it - and we are not a complicated business, you deal with the person working on your site directly.

I also write copy if needed, (separate from Kissmyweb.com) and accept devcoins as payment.

[Wekkel]

I just had a look at the csv_file for round 31 and saw that I do not have any shares anymore for Devtome. However, after 1 share in round 30, I had built up about 6 shares (I think) for round 31 for Devtome writing.

Has something gone wrong with parsing or am I missing something?

http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_31.csv

[dalamar96]

I just had a look at the csv_file for round 31 and saw that I do not have any shares anymore for Devtome. However, after 1 share in round 30, I had built up about 6 shares (I think) for round 31 for Devtome writing.

Has something gone wrong with parsing or am I missing something?

http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_31.csv

The receiver and account files show you as having a total of 7 shares so far for 31.

[georgem]

Kissmyweb.com is delighted to offer webdesign services for Devcoin (and Bitcoin)



Kissmyweb.com is not a new business, we have been around for 8 years - we are not a big business, "we" are me and a group of freelance awesome guys who do custom code when I need it - and we are not a complicated business, you deal with the person working on your site directly.

I also write copy if needed, (separate from Kissmyweb.com) and accept devcoins as payment.

Awesome.

I admire every selfemployed freelancer who accepts cryptocoins. I want to do that myself sometime in the future... but I have to prepare a few things before I can.

[Wekkel]

I just had a look at the csv_file for round 31 and saw that I do not have any shares anymore for Devtome. However, after 1 share in round 30, I had built up about 6 shares (I think) for round 31 for Devtome writing.

Has something gone wrong with parsing or am I missing something?

http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_31.csv

The receiver and account files show you as having a total of 7 shares so far for 31.

Those 7 shares are for Testing Sidhujag Client (1 share) and Investment Plan (6 shares). The shares for Word Count are missing.

[hypersire]

Kissmyweb.com is delighted to offer webdesign services for Devcoin (and Bitcoin)



Kissmyweb.com is not a new business, we have been around for 8 years - we are not a big business, "we" are me and a group of freelance awesome guys who do custom code when I need it - and we are not a complicated business, you deal with the person working on your site directly.

I also write copy if needed, (separate from Kissmyweb.com) and accept devcoins as payment.

Super! I'll add your site to devcoin.org under the Spend DVC section - I'm finishing up the next round of updates now.

[dalamar96]

I just had a look at the csv_file for round 31 and saw that I do not have any shares anymore for Devtome. However, after 1 share in round 30, I had built up about 6 shares (I think) for round 31 for Devtome writing.

Has something gone wrong with parsing or am I missing something?

http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_31.csv

The receiver and account files show you as having a total of 7 shares so far for 31.

Those 7 shares are for Testing Sidhujag Client (1 share) and Investment Plan (6 shares). The shares for Word Count are missing.

Ahhh ok sorry .

[Papacrusher]

I just had a look at the csv_file for round 31 and saw that I do not have any shares anymore for Devtome. However, after 1 share in round 30, I had built up about 6 shares (I think) for round 31 for Devtome writing.

Has something gone wrong with parsing or am I missing something?

http://d.evco.in/charity/devtome_31.csv

The receiver and account files show you as having a total of 7 shares so far for 31.

Those 7 shares are for Testing Sidhujag Client (1 share) and Investment Plan (6 shares). The shares for Word Count are missing.

I'm new to devtome, but I did notice that you had numerous warnings on the devtome warning txt in the charity file.  I don't know if that affected your word count or not.

[weisoq]

I'm new to devtome, but I did notice that you had numerous warnings on the devtome warning txt in the charity file.  I don't know if that affected your word count or not.

Cheers. Giftculturewriting is a new admin on devtome and looks they haven't been added to the 'ok' list for editing. I'll ask UTB to add if he hasn't already.

Just for everybody's info, there's a time gap between end of a round and start of generation payout to ensure all issues are resolved. So there won't be undeserved losses.

Edit: A lot of those 'warnings' were because we're going through and categorising. Everybody should really be capable of doing that themselves, and it's a (small) factor in earnings, so would be greatly appreciated and sensible to go through all articles, add appropriate category, and even list them in that place. That way we can spend more time focusing on any more problematic issues, articles by older fly-by-nights, better organising things etc. Ta
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#category

[MAbtc]

About a week ago, plagiarism was found in the articles of Notabot (Fheenix on devtome). It was just after the receiver files were made, so it was too late to regenerate the files. I talked with Notabot, and it turned out he hired a writer who was copying text. He was really sorry about it and wanted to quit. It was many articles, about 220,000 words worth, at an average of 300,000 devcoins per share, it's about 66 million devcoins. Notabot then deleted all those articles from devtome. Notabot was also selling his devcoins, so he has few left and full restitution is impossible. I judged that his repentance was sincere, and so I suggested a way to atone, following in spirit:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=conditional_forgiveness

Notabot would stop selling his devcoins, and send all but 5 million back to people at the end of December, and then send all but 5 million back at the end of the round 30 payment at the end of January. For a year, round 31 to round 42 inclusive, a third of his earnings would be sent back.

This might seem like an easy way off, because this will not pay back all the devcoins. However, it is much harder and more expensive than simply quitting.

I think this a reasonable atonement, however if a majority of admins don't want this then it's off.

This was never clear to me. What is meant by "back to people?" Were these devcoins to be repaid in future rounds to the receivers in those rounds, or re-distributed to the other receivers in past rounds? What period of time did this occur over?

[novacadian]

It doesn't have to work the way that I'm describing here; I just believe that if it does, devcoins and http://devtome.com in particular will become much more valuable much more quickly. It's a more capitalist way of doing things.

There can be little argument that Capitalism is competition by definition, while Open Source is cooperation by definition. It is becoming more obvious the Bounty System is being shaped by the Capitalist mindset not the Open Source cooperative one.

The Bounty System, if what is being sold here on this thread is true, needs to me more programmer centric rather than end user centric.

Let's flip things on it's head with an example approach...

Say the programmer codes a program and then posts it to the project/Bounty site to be voted on to see if it should be added to that cycle's shares. Perhaps it could remain on the list to be voted upon until it receives enough votes to take it off the list. If it does not get enough votes it does not receive any shares and if it does get enough votes it does.

It could also be voted as to how many shares it should get. Then it is not capitalist driven but coder driven. The same Open Source will make it to the market regardless of it getting a share split or not. There is no less risk to the programmer than the Bounty System's present form in my opinion.

If Capitalists, that cannot program, want a program then they can dig into their DevCoin Wallets and pay programmers to do it. Of course all such requests would be released to Open Source because that is the whole concept behind DevCoins right?

That would be an example of flipping the Bounty System on it's head and putting it in the hands of Open Source programmers and out of the hands of Capitalists who can't program.

- Nova

[Edit: typos]

[georgem]

It doesn't have to work the way that I'm describing here; I just believe that if it does, devcoins and http://devtome.com in particular will become much more valuable much more quickly. It's a more capitalist way of doing things.

There can be little argument that Capitalism is competition by definition, while Open Source is cooperation by definition. It is becoming more obvious the Bounty System is being shaped by the Capitalist mindset not the Open Source cooperative one.

The Bounty System, if what is being sold here on this thread is true, needs to me more programmer centric rather than end user centric.

Let's flip things on it's head with an example approach...

Say the programmer codes a program and then posts it to the project/Bounty site to be voted on to see if it should be added to that cycle's shares. Perhaps it could remain on the list to be voted upon until it receives enough votes to take it off the list. If it does not get enough votes it does not receive any shares and if it does get enough votes it does.

It could also be voted as to how many shares it should get. Then it is not capitalist driven but coder driven. The same Open Source will make it to the market regardless of it getting a share split or not. There is no less risk to the programmer than the Bounty System's present form in my opinion.

If Capitalists, that cannot program, want a program then they can dig into their DevCoin Wallets and pay programmers to do it. Of course all such requests would be released to Open Source because that is the whole concept behind DevCoins right?

That would be an example of flipping the Bounty System on it's head and putting it in the hands of Open Source programmers and out of the hands of Capitalists who can't program.

- Nova

[Edit: typos]

In my opinion capitalism is the only thing capable of creating real competition that encourages a fast innovation cycle.

Why is capitalism bad?

Also, I am an (anarcho)capitalist who can program, so your argument is invalid?  


I want to add, that open source does not per definition create cooperation.
Simply making something open source does not imply or guarantee whatsoever that a cooperation will develop.
There is no proof for that.
Cooperation is driven by other factors.
Open Source does merely facilitate access to everybody, but it doesn't handle or influence the motivation of the developers in any form!

[novacadian]

Why is capitalism bad?

It is not my intention to suggest that capitalism is bad. However it is competition by definition; while Open Source is cooperation by definition. What may be wrong is that the present Bounty System is being shaped by the former instead of the later.

Also, I am an (anarcho)capitalist who can program, so your argument is invalid?  

How about "...who can't program, or choose not to...."? You get the idea. Projects that people want are being made Bounties. Either they cannot do it or choose not to. The projects are not coming from the coders but from them unable or not wanting to do it themselves. That just does feel right to my Open Source way of thinking. Only one opinion though, don`t take it personal or anything.

- Nova

[Edit : typo]

[novacadian]

I want to add, that open source does not per definition create cooperation.
Simply making something open source does not imply or guarantee whatsoever that a cooperation will develop.
There is no proof for that.
Cooperation is driven by other factors.
Open Source does merely facilitate access to everybody, but it doesn't handle or influence the motivation of the developers in any form!

If you cannot see a cooperative spirit in releasing code which encourages others to add, modify and use at their will then so be it. Let`s just call it non-competitive or non-capitalistic by definition.

- Nova

[ranlo]

About a week ago, plagiarism was found in the articles of Notabot (Fheenix on devtome). It was just after the receiver files were made, so it was too late to regenerate the files. I talked with Notabot, and it turned out he hired a writer who was copying text. He was really sorry about it and wanted to quit. It was many articles, about 220,000 words worth, at an average of 300,000 devcoins per share, it's about 66 million devcoins. Notabot then deleted all those articles from devtome. Notabot was also selling his devcoins, so he has few left and full restitution is impossible. I judged that his repentance was sincere, and so I suggested a way to atone, following in spirit:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=conditional_forgiveness

Notabot would stop selling his devcoins, and send all but 5 million back to people at the end of December, and then send all but 5 million back at the end of the round 30 payment at the end of January. For a year, round 31 to round 42 inclusive, a third of his earnings would be sent back.

This might seem like an easy way off, because this will not pay back all the devcoins. However, it is much harder and more expensive than simply quitting.

I think this a reasonable atonement, however if a majority of admins don't want this then it's off.

This was never clear to me. What is meant by "back to people?" Were these devcoins to be repaid in future rounds to the receivers in those rounds, or re-distributed to the other receivers in past rounds? What period of time did this occur over?

UTB is going to be paying them back based on proportional shares. I don't know over what period though.

[georgem]

Why is capitalism bad?

It is not my intention to suggest that capitalism is bad. However if is competition by definition; while Open Source is cooperation by definition. What may be wrong is that the present Bounty System is being shaped by the former instead of the later.

I am just trying to understand. It is important for me to be able to judge how other devcoiners think.

So you suggest that competition is wrong?

Also, I am an (anarcho)capitalist who can program, so your argument is invalid?  

How about "...who can't program, or choose not to...."? You get the idea. Projects that people want are being made Bounties. Either they cannot do it or choose not to. The projects are not coming from the coders but from them unable or not wanting to do it themselves. That just does feel right to my Open Source way of thinking. Only one opinion though, don`t take it personal or anything.

- Nova

I think this is not the case. I am a selfemployed programmer, and many of my customers are programmers themselves.
You somehow seem to apply that the programmers can't be customers themselves?

[georgem]

I want to add, that open source does not per definition create cooperation.
Simply making something open source does not imply or guarantee whatsoever that a cooperation will develop.
There is no proof for that.
Cooperation is driven by other factors.
Open Source does merely facilitate access to everybody, but it doesn't handle or influence the motivation of the developers in any form!

If you cannot see a cooperative spirit in releasing code which encourages others to add, modify and use at their will then so be it. Let`s just call it non-competitive or non-capitalistic by definition.

- Nova

Merely releasing code does not encourage others to do anything in particular. You apply a causality that simply doesn't exist.

Furthermore you apply that cooperation can't be competitive?

I can imagine many open source projects where a (friendly) competition between forks emerges, and it makes sense this way.
If one fork has a giant innovation leap, the other fork might just give up their own plans, and not feel like losers, because the innovation is good for everyone. Everyone would realize a paradigm shift and adjust and not feel like a loser.
That's why competition is not a bad thing.

If you take all competition and all capitalism out of the calculation, you create a very artificial environment, because you would have to coercively prevent others from competing and making a buck out of open source if they voluntarily choose to do so.


Look I understand what you want to say, but in my eyes opensource is not married to cooperation, and open source can just as well be competitive and capitalistic, so I just try to understand why you purposely aim to limit the possibilities of the "open source market" ?