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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865322 times)
jspielberg
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December 30, 2013, 11:45:33 PM
 #5701

If Hashfast is able to ship the Baby Jet and the Sierra out now, wouldn't they be the most cost/energy efficient miners in the marketplace?

Of course I know they screwed tons of people on the delivery date, but isn't the above statement  true?

They are not any more efficient than a 400GH bitfury miner.  Not sure how efficient knc is if you under clock to have it run as slow as the hash fast box.

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perezoso
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December 31, 2013, 12:00:52 AM
 #5702

@perezoso, I've been following your posts here and there is one thing I don't understand.  Why do you think that sending a "delegation" to their offices to negotiate would do any good?

It's just a question of classic organizing, as far as I can see.  I guess I'm showing the fact that come from a non-profit campaigning background.

If there's no buy-in from a significant group of customers, however, then you are right to suggest that 'collective bargaining' with Hashfast would probably be pointless.

What I'm trying to say, however, is that if a significant proportion of Hashfast's customer base organized into a coherent group that could agree on some goals, then we would wield some power because we could create real consequences for Hashfast if they failed to meet our demands.  

Mainly in the form of bad press, and when I say that, I'm not talking about posts on this forum, I'm talking about tech and mainstream media.  Everybody who follows the news knows that strange things are happening with bitcoin, and are curious about bitcoin mining.  My neighbor is always asking me about it, trying to understand. A public feud between an organized group of Hashfast customers and the company would make an interesting story, one that would explain some of the dynamics to more people.

But we need certain skills, and buy-in, to pull it off.  Cedivad says he has good web skills and is willing to help.  There are a few people like you who have expressed interest. I come from a policy background and am pretty good at shaping public messages (and am experienced with major media).  But I don't have the intense bitcoin and economics knowledge that would need to be paired with those skills, and am not sure I would want to be out in front.

Shared goals are a prerequisite for success, however....  

That's just my .02.
cedivad
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December 31, 2013, 12:14:43 AM
 #5703

Is 230GH really worth 4300$?
Doesn't matter, HF won't ship anytime soon anyway.

Don't know. Min-blown accomplished.

Systems are online again. Thanks, calculator.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
timmah
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December 31, 2013, 12:25:15 AM
 #5704

Even their price structure sucks.

Since all their cases are standard ATX, including the PSU then it would be a lot more beneficial to just order the upgrade chip/board:

    (1) 28nm Golden Nonce ASICs
    Cooling system
    Power Supply
    Hardware & Cables

One "set" is $1500.

A BJ is $2250 so basically you are just paying for a case since the "upgrade package" has all other components necessary to plug into ANY ATX case, desktop, micro (?), and server.

Some math here:

BJ = $2250
Upgrade kit = $1500

$750 difference, that means that anyone that buys the BJ is paying $750 for a Standard off the shelf consumer case since the "upgrade kit" has all the other components necessary minus a case.

I'm sure that we could have all very easily just ordered our own cases if this is what they are doing.

Price difference for the Sierra is even worse, $6,300
$1,500 x3 = $4,500
Price difference $1,800 and I was told by John that "well we could have fit 6 boards in a 2u case but the 4u cases were more available" (and most likely much cheaper and means they do not need to use compact 2u SERVER grade PSUs but just regular retail CONSUMER PSUs or have custom water cooling) and it's not like the PSUs they use are hot swappable or redundant so if it is hosted at a DC and a power supply dies a tech would have to take out the entire case and trouble shoot to replace the bad PSU, causing even more down time and the extra cost for DC Tech time plus cost of parts.  I doubt that data centers keep extra parts for everyone who co-locates so it would mean sending extra PSUs or what ever or the send you the broken unit back for YOU to fix and return, costing even more.

But of course they advertise the Sierra as a "commercial" grade product, made to be hosted at a data center... So why does it have basically all consumer grade off the shelf parts?  Even KnC didn't advertise their Jupiters as "commercial" grade and up-selling by saying that their products would come in a 4u case making it "better" than the competitors.  KnC basically shipped out their product in something just a little better than a cardboard box to fold up as a case, (instead they use aluminum) but at least they shipped a working product and pretty much on time.

Even though BFL did this same thing to us, at the time that they actually shipped the products we were able to make our ROI, even in BTC and out of my 180GH of BFL machines I am still running them and making money.

With HF there is no hope at all...


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December 31, 2013, 12:56:56 AM
 #5705

Well, like i said I am willing to buy anyones Hashfast order if you are selling.

perezoso
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December 31, 2013, 12:57:35 AM
 #5706

Well, like i said I am willing to buy anyones Hashfast order if you are selling.

What's your offer for a B1 BJ and upgrade?
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December 31, 2013, 01:00:41 AM
 #5707

Well, like i said I am willing to buy anyones Hashfast order if you are selling.

What's your offer for a B1 BJ and upgrade?
As I said right now I am willing to pay you the same Hashfast will plus 5%. If you have a huge order or some special circumstances like an upgrade please PM me and we can work something out.


perezoso
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December 31, 2013, 01:02:55 AM
 #5708

Well, like i said I am willing to buy anyones Hashfast order if you are selling.

What's your offer for a B1 BJ and upgrade?
As I said right now I am willing to pay you the same Hashfast will plus 5%. If you have a huge order or some special circumstances like an upgrade please PM me and we can work something out.

I'll pass.
jspielberg
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December 31, 2013, 01:13:28 AM
 #5709

Here is my latest projections spreadsheet using the new data from Hashfast.
I am assuming receiving the miners on Jan. 10th and the MPP on March 1st.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auya3iRE6az1dGtKTGZDXzVDeFVjbHl3VmNsT216dHc&usp=sharing

Exponential forever is impossible, so I am also assuming that after the daily difficulty rate growth to 200M, that we enter a linear rather than exponential growth phase.
You can modify the hash rate for the initial miner and for MPP as well as the linearity threshhold.

This model assumes continued exponential growth until around March.
Using this model, the Batch1 with MPP will return 18 BTC in their lifetime.


dhenson
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December 31, 2013, 01:20:10 AM
 #5710

Here is my latest projections spreadsheet using the new data from Hashfast.
I am assuming receiving the miners on Jan. 10th and the MPP on March 1st.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auya3iRE6az1dGtKTGZDXzVDeFVjbHl3VmNsT216dHc&usp=sharing

Exponential forever is impossible, so I am also assuming that after the daily difficulty rate growth to 200M, that we enter a linear rather than exponential growth phase.
You can modify the hash rate for the initial miner and for MPP as well as the linearity threshhold.

This model assumes continued exponential growth until around March.
Using this model, the Batch1 with MPP will return 18 BTC in their lifetime.

Great work on this, thank you for sharing.
jspielberg
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December 31, 2013, 01:31:55 AM
 #5711

I'll update the exponential once difficulty retargets in a few days... but I think with all the Asic producers about to ship product, I think the exponential growth estimate for the next couple of months is actually going to be lower in the model than reality. This model also doesn't factor in power costs which look like it would be 2.25KW per batch1 baby jet + MPP.

Needless to say, the actual pricing of the initial BJ1 and MPP should have been closer to 20BTC than 60BTC.  Again... I would be happy with the hardware and a refund of the difference (40BTC).

jjiimm_64
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December 31, 2013, 04:39:04 AM
 #5712

I'll update the exponential once difficulty retargets in a few days... but I think with all the Asic producers about to ship product, I think the exponential growth estimate for the next couple of months is actually going to be lower in the model than reality. This model also doesn't factor in power costs which look like it would be 2.25KW per batch1 baby jet + MPP.

Needless to say, the actual pricing of the initial BJ1 and MPP should have been closer to 20BTC than 60BTC.  Again... I would be happy with the hardware and a refund of the difference (40BTC).

that would be acceptable to me too... but they better do something fast... in the next day or two they will be bombarded with refund requests for the full bitcoin amount.....  with legal proceedings to follow if they do not fulfill their promise..

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Transisto
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December 31, 2013, 04:46:55 AM
 #5713

You guys might want to upvote this : http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1u2a3m/running_timeline_of_hashfasts_actions_lies_and/

and this : http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1u2adc/hashfast_bitcoin_mining_company_leaking_private/
mgio
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December 31, 2013, 05:07:49 AM
 #5714

Well

Just to point out they have a January 15th refund date that is set in the sales contract. If you do not request by then it says you forfeit your right basically.

Just don't want anyone to miss that wording, I have not seen it mentioned yet.



That clause isn't even the slightest bit legal. I wouldn't worry about it.

If they don't deliver, you can get your money back, at any point.
ninjarobot
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December 31, 2013, 05:58:25 AM
 #5715

If they don't deliver, you can get your money back, at any point.

They didn't deliver. I asked for my money back in November as the 'December 31st delivery date' did not exist when I bought my BJ. They told me to go sell my pre-order on the 'Bitcoin forums' instead.

I wonder what the strategy is with the 'imminent dramatic price increase' email. Do they want to discourage customers asking for refunds and give them the impression they can sell their pre-orders to other suckers for more in the future? BFL just dropped their prices so I really don't see HF raising their prices.. just more mindf*ck tactics to create confusion in order to bridge the 2 week refund window if you ask me.
bitly
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December 31, 2013, 06:22:18 AM
 #5716

I received a Google Group invitation. Could the organizer confirm on this forum that it is legit?


gmaxwell
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December 31, 2013, 06:24:31 AM
 #5717

I don't know how they could pull off a "dramatic price increase" when Bitmain's last antminer group was $12.5/gh and shipped right away, and I expect the next group will be somewhat cheaper.

If you compensate for now vs "march 31" by subtracting the btc the antminer would mine between now and then, even with pessimal 100%/mo difficulty increases, the HF price would need to be less than $4.5/GH to be competative with the antminer price... and the currently advertised price is $5/gh.

Perhaps the strategy is metamorphosing from exploiting customers who believe (mis)representations about delivery expectations and refund policies to exploiting customers who can't do math.

Bitcoin will not be compromised
fenwick
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December 31, 2013, 06:25:29 AM
 #5718

I received a Google Group invitation. Could the organizer confirm on this forum that it is legit?



I am one of the organizers of the list.
I can confirm that I am a customer, and I would like to talk to the other customers,
including the ones already present on this forums, but also to the other, less active parties.

I am aware that I don't have any reputation here, but I still want to get this going.
I am willing to give up admin rights as soon as the list has launched.
If anybody else wants to take over, that's fine with me, too.
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December 31, 2013, 06:32:58 AM
 #5719

I received a Google Group invitation. Could the organizer confirm on this forum that it is legit?



I am another organizer for all hashfast customer e-mail addresses starting from 01 through CR. It is legit, but it seems as thanks for this I get this:

Quote
I've reported this email as spam to Google.

YOU are the problem.

Do not EVER contact me again with another unsolicited email.





yuriygeorge
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December 31, 2013, 06:39:15 AM
 #5720

I received a Google Group invitation. Could the organizer confirm on this forum that it is legit?



I am another organizer for all hashfast customer e-mail addresses starting from 01 through CR. It is legit, but it seems as thanks for this I get this:

Quote
I've reported this email as spam to Google.

YOU are the problem.

Do not EVER contact me again with another unsolicited email.






I see, so the e-mails that were leaked out went in batches, My e-mails included T-Z. I think we should find a way to merge groups if possible.
Looks like allinvain has 01-CR.
I'm not admin of my group, but it appears we're T-Z.
Fenwick - which Alphabet soup you got?

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