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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 157090 times)
JayJuanGee
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ESG, KYC & AML are attack vectors on Bitcoin


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January 29, 2018, 06:56:18 PM
 #1821

[edited out]

Just consider mine like an early warning. History tells us that people rarely listen to early warnings and eventually they punish that who is telling them what they don't want to hear, instead of being thankful as they should. Google the myth of Cassandra, if you don't understand what I'm talking about.


Looks like you are living in a pie in the sky world.  You want to predict the future before it happens, and then you have a self-fulfilling prophecy.   

Yeah, you could end up being correct, but my earlier points still stand including that your high level of negativism from the get go is still not even attempting to either give the new system a chance or to work within the parameters of the new system in order to figure out the good, bad and the ugly and to be constructive in your whole approach, whether that is brainstorming with others or making suggestions.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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PoolMinor
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XXXVII Fnord is toast without bread


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January 29, 2018, 06:59:02 PM
 #1822

I DARE those so called Legendary and Heroes  to agree with me if you have BALLS enough (only people who have BALLS will quote and agree) and you are really serious to eliminate shit posters.

I'm also calling all DT's to agree with me and lets finish this shit posting for good.

Your challenge here is a bit much, and likely has the opposite effect.  In reality, I should just ignore you rather than even quoting anything... even though you made some decent other points, but your points are not the be all end all, there are a lot of ways of framing matters, and there is not ONLY ONE way of looking at things, which happen to be your own way.  Get a grip.   Roll Eyes    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  (see trying to find some humor in your nonsensical attempt at seriousness).


What makes you think that any of your opinion is valid? Just because you have a huge pile of sMerit to give out somehow this makes you an authority on what deserves praise?

Most of of what you post is merely drivel, nonsensical shitposting. Why don't you just put this whole thread on ignore and quit double posting?

Btc=C2MF       Free BTC Poker
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent. -Marilyn vos Savant
High Plains Drifter
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"The fish rots from the head first"


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January 29, 2018, 07:10:21 PM
 #1823

I'm hoarding "merit" hoping in the future to convert it into LTC

Believe in the Shield!
Godwans
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Heya Homies


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January 29, 2018, 07:39:21 PM
 #1824

I'm hoarding "merit" hoping in the future to convert it into LTC
sews. ifn ye caint sales ur ltcz, and i rite sum qualitittiefied posts,you can git a meritoriously feelin

..ur mum

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Kavallo
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January 29, 2018, 08:07:10 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1825

[edited out]

Just consider mine like an early warning. History tells us that people rarely listen to early warnings and eventually they punish that who is telling them what they don't want to hear, instead of being thankful as they should. Google the myth of Cassandra, if you don't understand what I'm talking about.


Looks like you are living in a pie in the sky world.  You want to predict the future before it happens, and then you have a self-fulfilling prophecy.   

Yeah, you could end up being correct, but my earlier points still stand including that your high level of negativism from the get go is still not even attempting to either give the new system a chance or to work within the parameters of the new system in order to figure out the good, bad and the ugly and to be constructive in your whole approach, whether that is brainstorming with others or making suggestions.

I agree that the risk of self-fulfilling prophecies is frequent, but probably not in our case since over 99% of the forum members won't read our discussion here, and surely not the worse shitposters who are quite likely to not even speak English and to use google-translate for posting. In fact, I guess that over 90% of the forum's members are probably still completely unaware of the change, unless they have been in the META section. They will start to suspect something when they'll realize they don't rise in rank.

I also agree that my post was unbalanced towards a negative view. I guess the reason is that experience made me quite pessimist (I would prefer the word "realist") about human behavior, and especially human mass behavior - which is even much much worse than individual human behavior, which at rare times even happens to be not bad at all. And even though I agree on the necessity of a merit system and I am afraid that this version won't work, at the moment I have no constructive idea of a better system.
pablito1989
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January 29, 2018, 08:27:11 PM
 #1826

unfortunately this system is destined to fail. the accounts that should distribute the Merit points have no incentive to do so, this makes the sMerit completely useless.
sure, you will now say "I will distribute them" but a large number of people will not "waste time" in doing so.
JayJuanGee
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ESG, KYC & AML are attack vectors on Bitcoin


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January 29, 2018, 08:46:49 PM
Merited by PoolMinor (2)
 #1827

I DARE those so called Legendary and Heroes  to agree with me if you have BALLS enough (only people who have BALLS will quote and agree) and you are really serious to eliminate shit posters.

I'm also calling all DT's to agree with me and lets finish this shit posting for good.

Your challenge here is a bit much, and likely has the opposite effect.  In reality, I should just ignore you rather than even quoting anything... even though you made some decent other points, but your points are not the be all end all, there are a lot of ways of framing matters, and there is not ONLY ONE way of looking at things, which happen to be your own way.  Get a grip.   Roll Eyes    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  (see trying to find some humor in your nonsensical attempt at seriousness).


What makes you think that any of your opinion is valid? Just because you have a huge pile of sMerit to give out somehow this makes you an authority on what deserves praise?

Most of of what you post is merely drivel, nonsensical shitposting. Why don't you just put this whole thread on ignore and quit double posting?

I have discretion to determine what I would like to read and I have discretion regarding what I post too, just like you do. 

Furthermore, we disagree about the large majority of your ad hominem seemingly bitter (if not envious) and without substantiation other points, of course. 

By the way, I am not even going to ignore you (lucky you   Tongue) because once in a while I have seen that you have made  a decent point, here or there - especially when you can get past your tendencies towards emotionalism.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
JayJuanGee
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Activity: 2828
Merit: 5175


ESG, KYC & AML are attack vectors on Bitcoin


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January 29, 2018, 08:55:47 PM
 #1828

[edited out]

Just consider mine like an early warning. History tells us that people rarely listen to early warnings and eventually they punish that who is telling them what they don't want to hear, instead of being thankful as they should. Google the myth of Cassandra, if you don't understand what I'm talking about.


Looks like you are living in a pie in the sky world.  You want to predict the future before it happens, and then you have a self-fulfilling prophecy.   

Yeah, you could end up being correct, but my earlier points still stand including that your high level of negativism from the get go is still not even attempting to either give the new system a chance or to work within the parameters of the new system in order to figure out the good, bad and the ugly and to be constructive in your whole approach, whether that is brainstorming with others or making suggestions.

I agree that the risk of self-fulfilling prophecies is frequent, but probably not in our case since over 99% of the forum members won't read our discussion here, and surely not the worse shitposters who are quite likely to not even speak English and to use google-translate for posting. In fact, I guess that over 90% of the forum's members are probably still completely unaware of the change, unless they have been in the META section. They will start to suspect something when they'll realize they don't rise in rank.

I also agree that my post was unbalanced towards a negative view. I guess the reason is that experience made me quite pessimist (I would prefer the word "realist") about human behavior, and especially human mass behavior - which is even much much worse than individual human behavior, which at rare times even happens to be not bad at all. And even though I agree on the necessity of a merit system and I am afraid that this version won't work, at the moment I have no constructive idea of a better system.

Of course, we do not necessarily need to have an open mind on all points, especially if there is some lacking in facts or logic for the points that are being made, but if we can recognize that sometimes change comes that includes both negatives and positives, yet it might not be fruitful to let the perfect become the enemy of the good - and sometimes we can make progress even when we do not agree (and we might not come to complete agreement, sometimes  - or maybe frequently). 

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
Jason C.
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Activity: 196
Merit: 100



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January 29, 2018, 09:14:48 PM
 #1829

I've no problem with the purpose of the new Merit system. Stopping spammers is surely necessary for the forum right now.

What I don't agree is the way the Merit system were introduced. In my opinion, before the new system is actually established, the MODs should've made some announcement to all members of the forum, made a poll or something like that, collected their opinions regarding the new system, and then established the system based on the poll result. That's what "decentralized" and "democratic" governance mean! I believe the merit system would has incurred much less criticism if it'd been done this way.

2nd, the system is kinda too difficult for members to rank up. The activities required for next rank is double of the current rank, while merits required to rank up is too much more. eg. activities required for "member" to rank up to "full member" is 60, which is double of "member" requirement of 30 activities. However, the merits required to rank up to "full member" is 100, which is 10 times of "member" requirement of 10 merits. It looks unfair to me and unnecessary. Why set such high merits requirement for ranking up? Did MODs conduct some solid research and have data to back up the rule?

I really hope the policy makers can hear the voices from all over the community and make adjustment to the rules accordingly!
Delphinus
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January 29, 2018, 09:15:26 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1830

In my opinion, the merit system is a good way to reward people for making quality posts. My only regret is that the initial merit assignment was done based on rank, not taking into account progression to the next rank.

I was nearly a Sr. Member (which does make a significant difference with bounty campaigns) but I guess I'll be stuck on full member for another couple of weeks gathering an additional 150 merit.

Helsing
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January 29, 2018, 09:36:38 PM
 #1831

In my opinion, the merit system is a good way to reward people for making quality posts. My only regret is that the initial merit assignment was done based on rank, not taking into account progression to the next rank.

I was nearly a Sr. Member (which does make a significant difference with bounty campaigns) but I guess I'll be stuck on full member for another couple of weeks gathering an additional 150 merit.

Couple of weeks? Ok let me know when you will get these 150 merits in "couple of weeks" let's assume that you will make 20 posts weekly and 50% of them will be really good and will deserve for merits (how many ppl will read your "good" posts and how many of them will have spare merits and how many of them will give you in the end merits?) let's assume that it will be another 50% so in the end you will get 5 merits per week so 30 weeks before your rank up.

And this calculation (in my opinion are really an optimistic variant) - but well it's just my opinion and I whish for you 150 merits even in 1 day.

Brunus
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Merit: 33

Rasputin Party Mansion


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January 29, 2018, 09:52:21 PM
 #1832

More I study the system, more it seems to me completely unsustainable: just try to make some different scenario on excel, and you will see how fast we'll run out of merits; so, the only concrete result will be to "freeze" the actual situation: high ranks will stay high rank by "divin right", low ranks will remain low rank forever.
After some time low ranks will give up, spam and shitpost will diminish, but also the vitality of the forum.

I think that who implemented the system is an intelligent guy and he knew perfectly what I'm saying (and what everyone sees).
So, I just wonder: did this merit system have really the aim of "to improve the posts quality" as officially stated or its true goal is to keep in power who is already in power (I suspect Legendaries don't like concurrence...)

There is a third option: Mr. Theymos is doing a kind of social experiment, proposing something that can't work, just to test how much time people need to figure it... :-)
We'll see.

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Godwans
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Heya Homies


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January 29, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
 #1833

More I study the system, more it seems to me completely unsustainable: just try to make some different scenario on excel, and you will see how fast we'll run out of merits; so, the only concrete result will be to "freeze" the actual situation: high ranks will stay high rank by "divin right", low ranks will remain low rank forever.
After some time low ranks will give up, spam and shitpost will diminish, but also the vitality of the forum.

I think that who implemented the system is an intelligent guy and he knew perfectly what I'm saying (and what everyone sees).
So, I just wonder: did this merit system have really the aim of "to improve the posts quality" as officially stated or its true goal is to keep in power who is already in power (I suspect Legendaries don't like concurrence...)

There is a third option: Mr. Theymos is doing a kind of social experiment, proposing something that can't work, just to test how much time people need to figure it... :-)
We'll see.

This, exactly...over time there will be less 'shitposts' and this most honorable forum will go back 'the way it used to be'...<200 members...

This is my siggy
4lteredc4rb0n
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January 29, 2018, 09:58:54 PM
 #1834

I'm not sure this solves the problem it's trying to address- it adds another layer, so it does make it harder to farm, but it's also a limited supply system than can just as easily be manipulated. Time will tell I suppose.
bitart
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Vires in Numeris


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January 29, 2018, 10:23:53 PM
 #1835

Is it possible that I have found a bug? Or it's just my browser that tricks me... or this is the normal behaviour and I have to be cautious hitting refresh in the browser...

Have you also noticed if you see this page, after you have merited someone (Merit sent!)

and you hit the refresh button in the browser, the merit is sent again? (Without asking that I really want to send the data again like when I fill out a form on a normal webpage and hit send, after if I hit refresh, it asks me if I want to resend the same data)

(No, I don't want to trick you to send me a merit and after hit the refresh button to send a second one Smiley I'm just curious if it works for you too or it's just my browser....)

Edit:
before the post I've tried to google for this, if it was asked already but no luck
Jeremycoin
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𝓗𝓞𝓓𝓛


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January 29, 2018, 10:26:20 PM
 #1836

Is it possible that I have found a bug? Or it's just my browser that tricks me... or this is the normal behaviour and I have to be cautious hitting refresh in the browser...

Have you also noticed if you see this page, after you have merited someone (Merit sent!)
and you hit the refresh button in the browser, the merit is sent again? (Without asking that I really want to send the data again like when I fill out a form on a normal webpage and hit send, after if I hit refresh, it asks me if I want to resend the same data)

(No, I don't want to trick you to send me a merit and after hit the refresh button to send a second one Smiley I'm just curious if it works for you too or it's just my browser....)

Well in my case, my browser does always give me a pop up notification to stop me from doing the same action accidentally.

Maybe you should try to use another browser, or just reinstall that one you're using.

faucet used to be profitable
Opurum
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The Future of Security Tokens


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January 29, 2018, 10:27:59 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1837

To say the least, something of this nature was to come upon the community sooner or later. Increasing cryptocurrency awareness is bringing so many new users to this forum and everyone is heading up the hierarchy. Sadly enough the upper room isn't always enough for everyone on the pyramid and there has to be a way to slow down progressions. Merit is not just a sanitizer, but also a tranquilizer.

QuestionAuthority
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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


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January 29, 2018, 10:29:33 PM
 #1838

Is it possible that I have found a bug? Or it's just my browser that tricks me... or this is the normal behaviour and I have to be cautious hitting refresh in the browser...

Have you also noticed if you see this page, after you have merited someone (Merit sent!)
and you hit the refresh button in the browser, the merit is sent again? (Without asking that I really want to send the data again like when I fill out a form on a normal webpage and hit send, after if I hit refresh, it asks me if I want to resend the same data)

(No, I don't want to trick you to send me a merit and after hit the refresh button to send a second one Smiley I'm just curious if it works for you too or it's just my browser....)

Well in my case, my browser does always give me a pop up notification to stop me from doing the same action accidentally.

Maybe you should try to use another browser, or just reinstall that one you're using.

Yeah, I posted about that 10 pages ago but this thread is moving too fast.

Helsing
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January 29, 2018, 10:29:51 PM
Merited by bitart (1)
 #1839

More I study the system, more it seems to me completely unsustainable: just try to make some different scenario on excel, and you will see how fast we'll run out of merits; so, the only concrete result will be to "freeze" the actual situation: high ranks will stay high rank by "divin right", low ranks will remain low rank forever.
After some time low ranks will give up, spam and shitpost will diminish, but also the vitality of the forum.

I think that who implemented the system is an intelligent guy and he knew perfectly what I'm saying (and what everyone sees).
So, I just wonder: did this merit system have really the aim of "to improve the posts quality" as officially stated or its true goal is to keep in power who is already in power (I suspect Legendaries don't like concurrence...)

There is a third option: Mr. Theymos is doing a kind of social experiment, proposing something that can't work, just to test how much time people need to figure it... :-)
We'll see.

This, exactly...over time there will be less 'shitposts' and this most honorable forum will go back 'the way it used to be'...<200 members...

Did you see my last post (almost same but in other words)

I'm afraid that this merit system can give opposite effect.
I like this idea and know why it was done but in my opinion because of this system there won't be any new members because they will never be able to rank up if they won't be able then it's pointles for them to even try.
If there won't be any fresh blood in this forum then only old members will stay so it means forum won't prosper and if something stays in the same place it really goes back.
If new projects won't be able to advertise properly they will find new places to do it and in the end you will loose everything (it's not 1st time I see something like that).

I'm full member so it doesn't affect me as bad as most of the ppl but I see bad future and this unfortunately affect me as hell, so please change this stupid system when there is still time.



Is it possible that I have found a bug? Or it's just my browser that tricks me... or this is the normal behaviour and I have to be cautious hitting refresh in the browser...

Have you also noticed if you see this page, after you have merited someone (Merit sent!)

and you hit the refresh button in the browser, the merit is sent again? (Without asking that I really want to send the data again like when I fill out a form on a normal webpage and hit send, after if I hit refresh, it asks me if I want to resend the same data)

(No, I don't want to trick you to send me a merit and after hit the refresh button to send a second one Smiley I'm just curious if it works for you too or it's just my browser....)

Edit:
before the post I've tried to google for this, if it was asked already but no luck

And I thought it was just mi imagination (I had same problem). I gave 1 merit for one newbie and later I saw that I gave him another 1 for same post but like 1,5h later (I was sure that I did not do anything like that). Now you confirm this issue for me.

JayJuanGee
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ESG, KYC & AML are attack vectors on Bitcoin


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January 29, 2018, 10:32:37 PM
Merited by bitart (1), metenjean (1)
 #1840

Is it possible that I have found a bug? Or it's just my browser that tricks me... or this is the normal behaviour and I have to be cautious hitting refresh in the browser...

Have you also noticed if you see this page, after you have merited someone (Merit sent!)
[https://i.imgur.com/U7iA8Ih.jpg[/img]
and you hit the refresh button in the browser, the merit is sent again? (Without asking that I really want to send the data again like when I fill out a form on a normal webpage and hit send, after if I hit refresh, it asks me if I want to resend the same data)

(No, I don't want to trick you to send me a merit and after hit the refresh button to send a second one Smiley I'm just curious if it works for you too or it's just my browser....)

Edit:
before the post I've tried to google for this, if it was asked already but no luck

I did the same thing on one of my sending of merits, and accidentally sent two merits to the same person, when I had only meant to send one  (so I sent one merit twice to the same person).

What you have to do is NOT refresh from a page in which you send merits, but instead remove any of the text after the word "merit" in the refresh page.

So your refresh page address should look like the below address, without text after the word "merit" at the end:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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