Merit & new rank requirements

[nullius]

Do not beg for merit excessively.

Code:

s/excessively/at all—ever/

The merit system is a promising idea.  But it will only work if we develop a strong cultural expectation that merit will only be awarded for meritorious posts.  Requests for merit must be declared extreme rudeness, a forum faux pas.  Such a thing is fit only for social opprobrium, derision, sneers, and shunning.

In most cultures, fishing for compliments is viewed as something between boorish and unthinkable.  Asking for merit is worse, because it may accrue monetary value due to signature campaigns.  It is like begging a professor for a top grade, instead of doing work worthy of earning a top grade.

By contrast, those who have something worthwhile to say will take pride in earning merit the normal way:  By making posts which others find valuable.  Whereas those who have nothing worthwhile to say, as such have nothing to add to the forum.

For my part:  Nobody who ever asks me for merit will ever get any from me—period.

P.S., all the whiners complaining about the merit system ipso facto thus demonstrate that they are incapable of writing meritorious posts, and therefore worthless to the forum.  Make good posts, and people will notice.  Or shut up.

Edit:  Added the paragraph about people taking pride in earning merit the normal way.

[Kavallo]

I have forgot more about bitcoin than you will ever know. I have lost more in scams than you will ever be able to buy, I have been there done that and got the T-shirt.

This is such a good line that I had to quote it so that it becomes also part of my posting history
And BTW this formula is true for me also in so many other fields of my life... - LoBL (Lots of Bitter Laughts)

[ducdr]

It will take some time before all users accept this system and the whole merit system becomes effective.

As I discussed in other topic, you can check this one and make in-depth discussion.

~
The merit system might have both negative and possitive effects on users, both lower- and higher-class of users.

The real problem is how long will it last? Organisms or human always find ways to adapt to new challenges, new changes, and part of them will survive for sure, smaller part of them will evolve over time to something or someone really really hard to imagine. They might move up to higher levels of spamming, cheating, etc.

So, my question is "How long will possitive effects of merit system last?"

[suchmoon]

P.S., all the whiners complaining about the merit system ipso facto thus demonstrate that they are incapable of writing meritorious posts, and therefore worthless to the forum.  Make good posts, and people will notice.  Or shut up.

Some complainers (complainants? complainactingors? nobody knew English could be so complicated) are doing quite well merit-wise so apparently complaining is worth something to someone.

Here's a thought. Wouldn't a quality post stick out in a shit thread more so than in a quality thread, thus upping the odds for a less-than-quality poster on up to earn coveted +1 sM, in those cases garnering sM from shitty posters not operating on full thrusters or worst --> their [cranial] core breach is imminent.

Yeah those merits are really hard to avoid. Even if you close your browser someone could still sneak in a merit or two for you.

[Lutpin]

P.S., all the whiners complaining about the merit system ipso facto thus demonstrate that they are incapable of writing meritorious posts, and therefore worthless to the forum.  Make good posts, and people will notice.  Or shut up.

Some complainers (complainants? complainactingors? nobody knew English could be so complicated) are doing quite well merit-wise so apparently complaining is worth something to someone.

Complainers and complainees (like employers and employees)?

[pablopsantos]

Thanks a lot for the explanation, man. Despiste the fact that I will only change my rank every two years, that is a very cool feature. 

[coinsniperX]

I see theymoss didn't even give any chance for members who was waiting rank change today)) I think it's strange, all member are good for forum, not only hero. And if you implemented your new system so suddenly you should give at least another one rank change by old rules, I think would be fair. And It's not a secret that no-one likes this new system except members with highest rank, who don't care about it) And I don't care too. But it may be that very soon we will have "fork" of this forum with more fair rules and all people and startups will move there. Really don't understand you theymoss.

I think that you are going a bit much in your criticism; however, I do think that a fair and repeated point that comes out in your post is that some kind of initial distribution of merit based on activity level or even prorata would have been a bite even-handed.  But even given the validity of such criticism and the merit of such proposal to possibly fix the initial distribution of merit in the forum, I doubt that any of this goes so far as to reasonably imply that Theymos or any administrator or even any high ranking member would intentionally change the system in order to exacerbate unfairness, as you seem to be suggesting such kinds of bad faith.

I clearly see that this forum is now taken in "one hands" and this is why I'm disappointed. It is not that what Bitcoin and blockchain technology developed for! This forum was about Bitcoin earlier, but not today. And this is the main reason why I'm writing now. It's totally against free decentralized vision! And every forum in it's initial mission is free for any discussion, but I don't see this here now. I see only high-ranked people who realize that every day more and more people comes to blockchain ecosystem and to this forum(coz it's the main place for to discuss it) and after some time they become a member's/full member's/Sr. etc, and it's not interesting for old high ranked people that newbies will wear signatures and earn 'their' money. And this group decided to implement some system, which means something good for forum but by it's initial mission it has to remove competitors for to take their money, it's now clearly for everyone. Why do you think in this thread writes only high-ranked people and only positive reviews about merits??? All others are scared that somebody will give them red trust for nothing ad they will not be eligible for to wear promo signatures. Such was happened many times while I read this forum.
And I will open your eyes now, i have a discussions about this issue almost every day with many people who have an accounts here, they all are disappointed too and nobody likes this system absolutely nobody, except high-ranked people of course ))
I think it would be better to remove all signatures to all ranks, then you will get your spam reduce immediately.
And I can say many more about this, but as I already see, I doesn't have any sense. Forum is already taken in hard claws and it is only beginning. I think that next will be Full member, I predict the hard times for them)) So be patient guys and do not wear signatures now, if you can. Good luck )

[JayJuanGee]

I see theymoss didn't even give any chance for members who was waiting rank change today)) I think it's strange, all member are good for forum, not only hero. And if you implemented your new system so suddenly you should give at least another one rank change by old rules, I think would be fair. And It's not a secret that no-one likes this new system except members with highest rank, who don't care about it) And I don't care too. But it may be that very soon we will have "fork" of this forum with more fair rules and all people and startups will move there. Really don't understand you theymoss.

I think that you are going a bit much in your criticism; however, I do think that a fair and repeated point that comes out in your post is that some kind of initial distribution of merit based on activity level or even prorata would have been a bite even-handed.  But even given the validity of such criticism and the merit of such proposal to possibly fix the initial distribution of merit in the forum, I doubt that any of this goes so far as to reasonably imply that Theymos or any administrator or even any high ranking member would intentionally change the system in order to exacerbate unfairness, as you seem to be suggesting such kinds of bad faith.

I clearly see that this forum is now taken in "one hands" and this is why I'm disappointed. It is not that what Bitcoin and blockchain technology developed for! This forum was about Bitcoin earlier, but not today. And this is the main reason why I'm writing now. It's totally against free decentralized vision! And every forum in it's initial mission is free for any discussion, but I don't see this here now. I see only high-ranked people who realize that every day more and more people comes to blockchain ecosystem and to this forum(coz it's the main place for to discuss it) and after some time they become a member's/full member's/Sr. etc, and it's not interesting for old high ranked people that newbies will wear signatures and earn 'their' money. And this group decided to implement some system, which means something good for forum but by it's initial mission it has to remove competitors for to take their money, it's now clearly for everyone. Why do you think in this thread writes only high-ranked people and only positive reviews about merits??? All others are scared that somebody will give them red trust for nothing ad they will not be eligible for to wear promo signatures. Such was happened many times while I read this forum.
And I will open your eyes now, i have a discussions about this issue almost every day with many people who have an accounts here, they all are disappointed too and nobody likes this system absolutely nobody, except high-ranked people of course ))
I think it would be better to remove all signatures to all ranks, then you will get your spam reduce immediately.
And I can say many more about this, but as I already see, I doesn't have any sense. Forum is already taken in hard claws and it is only beginning. I think that next will be Full member, I predict the hard times for them)) So be patient guys and do not wear signatures now, if you can. Good luck )

You are speaking nonsense mumbo jumbo.

I perused your post a few times and your other points of your earlier post, and you really are talking in conclusions rather than backing up anything with facts.  Furthermore, even if you had some facts, it seems much too premature to be coming to many of the conclusions that you already have reached. 

For those folks who want to attempt to work within this system, there may be ways to get merit points, if they want to be able to increase their credibility or perhaps to join signature campaigns.  I was a member of the forum for nearly two years  before I added a signature campaign - but I never considered my joining of signature campaigns as a means to affect the nature of my posts - because I was already participating and posting extensively before I first joined a signature campaign. I doubt that Theymos is going to get rid of signature campaigns any time soon, because this merit system change was likely meant to be an attempt to off-set some of the abusive aspects of signature campaigns and the incentives that have developed around signature campaigns.

[suchmoon]

I clearly see that this forum is now taken in "one hands" and this is why I'm disappointed. It is not that what Bitcoin and blockchain technology developed for! This forum was about Bitcoin earlier, but not today. And this is the main reason why I'm writing now. It's totally against free decentralized vision!

Earlier - like 10 days ago when you created your account? With most of that time spent bounty-hunting and in ICO threads, are you sure you want to bring up Bitcoin and blockchain and centralization? You don't seem to be concerned about any of those things.

[YuTü.Co.in]

Do not beg for merit excessively.

Code:

s/excessively/at all—ever/

The merit system is a promising idea.  But it will only work if we develop a strong cultural expectation that merit will only be awarded for meritorious posts.  Requests for merit must be declared extreme rudeness, a forum faux pas.  Such a thing is fit only for social opprobrium, derision, sneers, and shunning.

In most cultures, fishing for compliments is viewed as something between boorish and unthinkable.  Asking for merit is worse, because it may accrue monetary value due to signature campaigns.  It is like begging a professor for a top grade, instead of doing work worthy of earning a top grade.

By contrast, those who have something worthwhile to say will take pride in earning merit the normal way:  By making posts which others find valuable.  Whereas those who have nothing worthwhile to say, as such have nothing to add to the forum.

For my part:  Nobody who ever asks me for merit will ever get any from me—period.

P.S., all the whiners complaining about the merit system ipso facto thus demonstrate that they are incapable of writing meritorious posts, and therefore worthless to the forum.  Make good posts, and people will notice.  Or shut up.

Edit:  Added the paragraph about people taking pride in earning merit the normal way.

+1 sM because I love your command of the English language. I even learnt something.

PS: Due to all the excitement, I'm not sure if that's the first time I doled sM due to actually liking the post's content where most, if not all, of previous sM allocations were gifted for humor et al. purposes.

Aside: There are no asides.

Edit: Reserved for edits.

Calvo turpuis est nihil comato: Practicing my Latin while eating my Reuben in case I ever meetup with CBH again.

Testing my Latin: Cogito, ergo sum dignum merito.

[albos]

How can we get merits from others since I never got any and dont know how to send or receive.

[alexwolf011]

I think it is not easy to get the merits for new ones like me...

Is that possible to let people know this merits things?

I think many people do not know how to send their merits.

[JayJuanGee]

How can we get merits from others since I never got any and dont know how to send or receive.

I gave you one smerit - which is a merit for you merely based on your activity level of 48  - since we are in the early days of transition into this new system.

If someone else gives you another merit, then you will have one sendable merit (2 x 50% = 1).

Of course, you could have already known this information be reading the OP of this thread... .but I will give you the benefit of the doubt this time, and hopefully, you will make decent posts in the future in order to be able to earn the 10 merits (9 additional merits)  that are needed to rank up to "member"..    that is if you are accordingly interested in ranking up (seems like you are, since you asked the questions in your post, no?).

By the way, once you get your smerit, you can send it to someone else (which creates .5 smerits for them), or you can just wait to build up your smerits or wait to give it to a post that you feel deserves your smerit - (totally your discretion); however, as the OP stated, there is not really any benefit in hoarding smerits - and that will be additionally true if you can attempt high quality posts and continue to earn some smerits from time to time.. maybe weekly or even daily.

I think it is not easy to get the merits for new ones like me...

Is that possible to let people know this merits things?

I think many people do not know how to send their merits.

O.k... last one for the day that I am giving out, merely based on transitional activity level... hahahahha...

Just try posting quality posts, and perhaps you will be able to earn enough smerits to rank up to member.  I know that you are starting at zero, but perhaps after several quality posts and a few weeks you will be able to earn 10 (9 more).

[ObscurePen]

I just saw this merit thing right now, and I seem to like the idea, but I still have a few doubts. Does your number of s-Merits regen after a while? And do you need to receive 2 s-Merits to gain 1 Merit? Also what stops alt accounts from meriting other main accounts if no one is moderating this system directly? Plus how exactly do you see how many merits a post earned?

[ObscurePen]

I see theymoss didn't even give any chance for members who was waiting rank change today)) I think it's strange, all member are good for forum, not only hero. And if you implemented your new system so suddenly you should give at least another one rank change by old rules, I think would be fair. And It's not a secret that no-one likes this new system except members with highest rank, who don't care about it) And I don't care too. But it may be that very soon we will have "fork" of this forum with more fair rules and all people and startups will move there. Really don't understand you theymoss.

There is already a "fork" of this forum. Here is the link to it: forum.bitcoin.com

It is pretty much a Bitcoin forum like this one which has much less spam as it is relatively new and because it bans nearly all sig campaigns. As far as I know, they have only had 1 sig campaign so far.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

every day more and more people comes to blockchain ecosystem

This phrase-a-rooni is a hallmark of fine shitposting.  A staple, if you will.  I don't know what it is, but you can pick out the people who are on bitcointalk solely to choke the bitcoin chicken by looking for variations of the above words.  Damn straight it's a garbled mess by someone who knows just enough English to be fucking annoying.  Sorry, bud.

That whole post is a great example of how a gigantic brick wall of text is not equivalent to a well-thought out and written post.  Quantity isn't necessarily equal to quality, in other words, and it's a concept that seems to elude most of Asia and eastern Europe.

You are speaking nonsense mumbo jumbo.

Mmmm-hmmmm.

Thanks a lot for the explanation, man. Despiste

Explanatacations are of no cost here, keep them comming sir.

[JayJuanGee]

I just saw this merit thing right now, and I seem to like the idea, but I still have a few doubts. Does your number of s-Merits regen after a while? And do you need to receive 2 s-Merits to gain 1 Merit? Also what stops alt accounts from meriting other main accounts if no one is moderating this system directly? Plus how exactly do you see how many merits a post earned?

1) number of smerits does not regenerate, unless you are a merit source (and Theymos has only designated 57 merit sources, so far),

2) you do receive 1 s merit for every two merits that you receive, so the only way that you generate more smerits, if you are not a source is if you receive merits

3) there is not really any way to stop alt accounts from merit farming, but I suppose if there are patterns found or reports made then perhaps admin may take some action to ban or suspend, perhaps?  They might receive negative trust, too.

4) merits are shown at the top of each post - below the time/date stamp.

[JayJuanGee]

I see theymoss didn't even give any chance for members who was waiting rank change today)) I think it's strange, all member are good for forum, not only hero. And if you implemented your new system so suddenly you should give at least another one rank change by old rules, I think would be fair. And It's not a secret that no-one likes this new system except members with highest rank, who don't care about it) And I don't care too. But it may be that very soon we will have "fork" of this forum with more fair rules and all people and startups will move there. Really don't understand you theymoss.

There is already a "fork" of this forum. Here is the link to it: forum.bitcoin.com

It is pretty much a Bitcoin forum like this one which has much less spam as it is relatively new and because it bans nearly all sig campaigns. As far as I know, they have only had 1 sig campaign so far.

Let me guess, the one and only sig campaign on your referral to bitcoin.com is for b-cash(trash?)?  hahahahaha

Yeah, right, go join that stupid-ass (and likely astroturf) forum for "more objective" information.  

[Mr.Spider703]

I've been here for more than a year (the old account was recently hacked) and never read about the ICO, it was not interesting to me, basically I read about the program's mining, dealt with them myself and told others. With the new system, I see that in the topics about the mining program, few can give you credit for what you explain on your fingers to a newcomer where and where to click, what to see so that everything works for him. question to the experts - can this be considered for merit or not?

Yeah, right, go join that stupid-ass (and likely astroturf) forum for "more objective" information.   

I already have it there, but it's more interesting here and more discussion here

[nullius]

P.S., all the whiners complaining about the merit system ipso facto thus demonstrate that they are incapable of writing meritorious posts, and therefore worthless to the forum.  Make good posts, and people will notice.  Or shut up.

Some complainers (complainants? complainactingors? nobody knew English could be so complicated) are doing quite well merit-wise so apparently complaining is worth something to someone.

I believe the proper word would be complainant, as used in a court of law.  Whereas I used the word “whiners” by way of dismissing the complaints for lack of merit.

Complainers and complainees (like employers and employees)?

I don’t know an English word for the receiver of complaints; and I doubt one exists, for he who hears a complainant’s prayer must be a judge.  Thus, you understand my call to be judgmental.

Such measures are of unfortunate necessity; for we are not in the age “when Man yet new / No rule but uncorrupted reason knew... / Needless was written law, where none opprest: / The law of Man was written in his breast”.  (Now, there’s an „Emblem für immer in der Brust“.)

“...my call to be judgmental”—case in point, a complaint without merit:

I clearly see that this forum is now taken in "one hands" and this is why I'm disappointed.

It is all a conspiracy against you, personally, because you are a special snowflake—and the universe itself hates you.  That is why the universe always disappoints special little you.  I suggest that you convert to misotheism.

The complainant’s motion is DENIED.

The complaint is DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE.

Bye.

+1 sM because I love your command of the English language. I even learnt something.

PS: Due to all the excitement, I'm not sure if that's the first time I doled sM due to actually liking the post's content where most, if not all, of previous sM allocations were gifted for humor et al. purposes.

Aside: There are no asides.

Edit: Reserved for edits.

Calvo turpuis est nihil comato: Practicing my Latin while eating my Reuben in case I ever meetup with CBH again.

Testing my Latin: Cogito, ergo sum dignum merito.

+1 for appreciation of fine English, and for compelling me to haul out a Latin dictionary—hah!

Given your penchant for both languages, mayhap you appreciate my humour over the origins of the word merit juxtaposed against etymologically odd cousins, meretrix and meretricious.  Sadly, it may be expected that some will merit merits through the meritorious discipline of soldiers, whereas the meretricious will behave as the lowest class of whores.⁰

The solution to such problems can only be social and cultural:  Thus do I call down obloquy on any who seek merits meretriciously and not meritoriously.  Is honour so cheap as to be bought?  Can respect be begged, and thus beggared?  Let it be not so!

P.S.:  Being decentralized and uncontrollable, Bitcoinum nullius est.

0. Another etymologically vexatious word; cf. care, charity.  Those wise in words also may use “nice” as a covert insult.