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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 160787 times)
amerrigan
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February 09, 2018, 02:33:56 PM
 #2561

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

I don't agree. Rank of the member should mean his "seniority" not only by number of posts, but also by quality of posts. I think that nobody wants Hero members that are posting shitposts in this forum. So i like the idea that members should qualify for a higher rank only if they post something meaningful.  If you are more interested in intellectual benefits, then there is no need for the rank upgrade anyway..

The other thing is that currently it's quote difficult to get some merits. It looks like a very long journey to upgrade from Member to Full Member for example, even for users  that are posting quality posts. I hope this will get better once there are more sMerits available from Merit sources.

Isn't this just another form of elitism though? Only those with sufficient rank can decide on who can progress through the system.

Isn't it is also far too easy for some of these "shitpost heros" to level up their own secondary/multiple accounts and not use the system as intended.

We need a rank Hard-fork!

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cryptocommoner
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February 09, 2018, 02:42:59 PM
 #2562

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

I don't agree. Rank of the member should mean his "seniority" not only by number of posts, but also by quality of posts. I think that nobody wants Hero members that are posting shitposts in this forum. So i like the idea that members should qualify for a higher rank only if they post something meaningful.  If you are more interested in intellectual benefits, then there is no need for the rank upgrade anyway..

The other thing is that currently it's quote difficult to get some merits. It looks like a very long journey to upgrade from Member to Full Member for example, even for users  that are posting quality posts. I hope this will get better once there are more sMerits available from Merit sources.

Isn't this just another form of elitism though? Only those with sufficient rank can decide on who can progress through the system.

Isn't it is also far too easy for some of these "shitpost heros" to level up their own secondary/multiple accounts and not use the system as intended.

We need a rank Hard-fork!



I don't think it is necessarily a form of elitism.  No system is perfect, but they are attempting to decrease those 'shitpost heros' from ever making it to the higher ranks.  They can do nothing about those that were already higher ranks to begin with as that would also be unfair to them. 

You can send 1 sMerit for every 2 that you receive.  I have used up my 1 unfortunately, but I hope to gain more with more quality posts that I put on this board with time.  It's a slow process yes, but one that has to be fully-accepted before it can really change the way things are done here.
pvk444
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February 09, 2018, 02:51:37 PM
 #2563

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

I don't agree. Rank of the member should mean his "seniority" not only by number of posts, but also by quality of posts. I think that nobody wants Hero members that are posting shitposts in this forum. So i like the idea that members should qualify for a higher rank only if they post something meaningful.  If you are more interested in intellectual benefits, then there is no need for the rank upgrade anyway..

The other thing is that currently it's quote difficult to get some merits. It looks like a very long journey to upgrade from Member to Full Member for example, even for users  that are posting quality posts. I hope this will get better once there are more sMerits available from Merit sources.

Yes. You are right that rank should reflect some form of quality as well.

However, if somebody just want's to be active on the board and does not care about gaining any monetary benefits, then they already have the inherent desire and thus inherent incentive to engage in higher quality discussions and would naturally avoid spamming the forums. If merits (for the purposes of rewards from signatures) are decoupled from ranks, then the ranks themselves hold no value for those who are interested in monetary gains, but remain an nice recognition for all others. Since there would be no other rewards associated with rank than a personal satisfaction and gratification, simple spamming would be just a waste of time.

On the other-hand for those who are primarily interested in using this as a source of income, and thus for those whose incentives can get misaligned with posting quality, merit system can provide the external "encouragement" to focus on quality and avoid spamming.

So, I don't think decoupling leads to a deterioration in quality. Keeping them coupled, however, could potentially stifle more active participation. Psychology and social recognition are strong forces here.
Aneuk cabang
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February 09, 2018, 03:27:50 PM
 #2564

In addition to activity, everyone now has a merit score, and you need both a certain activity level and a certain merit score in order to reach higher member ranks. The required scores are:

RankRequired activityRequired merit
Brand new00
Newbie10
Jr Member300
Member6010
Full Member120100
Sr. Member240250
Hero Member480500
LegendaryRandom in the range 775-10301000

You get merit points when someone sends you some for one of your posts. Additionally, when someone sends you merit points, half of those points can be sent by you to other people.

Certain users are designated as "merit sources". They can create new merit out of nothing, up to a limited number per month (which differs per source). I will not be posting a definitive list of merit sources (so that people don't bug them too much), though you'll soon figure out who they are if you pay attention.

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

Do not beg for merit excessively.

Useful infographics

Forum users have helpfully created some infographics to explain the merit system:
paxmao's infographic
ibminer's infographic
8Habits's infographic
JetSet11's infographic
zentdex's infographic
alia_armelle's infographic

If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.

Trivia:

For current members, your initial merit score is equal to the minimum required to your rank. Of that, a certain amount (less than the usual half) is spendable. The spendable amount was calculated based on your current rank and the number of activity points you earned in the last year. A Legendary member who hasn't posted in the last year would still be Legendary, but would not have any spendable merit.

If someone sends you 1 merit, the 0.5 sMerit is not wasted; it is just not shown until you get another merit point.

There are stats here, and you can find someone's merit summary by clicking the "merit" link on their profile.
Is there no other way to get merits? i guess it little difficult. We have tons of posts a day, some of them have good or high quality posts, but how can we expect user with merits source to read it and not past it? maybe we can tag them ?? hehe
amerrigan
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February 09, 2018, 03:34:42 PM
 #2565

Is there a limit on the number of merits than can be sent in one hit?
TheQuin
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February 09, 2018, 04:20:09 PM
 #2566

Is there a limit on the number of merits than can be sent in one hit?

Yes, 50. It's also the limit that can be sent to the same person in one month.

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nitrocryptonitro
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February 09, 2018, 05:44:37 PM
 #2567

OK Op, thanks for those explanations !  Wink
Gleb Gamow
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February 09, 2018, 06:17:30 PM
 #2568

I dunno about other people but I've used my smerit

If you don't like how I use my smerit you can coin yourselves Smiley

Hey, Crest, I +2 sM on one of your posts as thanks for the unsolicited positive on the Trust thingy.

I'm now offering +2 sM in soliciting a Reuben Sandwich with extra sauerkraut on marble rye.
amerrigan
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February 09, 2018, 06:23:44 PM
Merited by Gleb Gamow (1)
 #2569

Without coming up with a Merit Ponzi scheme I'll doubt I'll be ranking up anytime soon.
greeklogos
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February 09, 2018, 07:03:38 PM
 #2570

Is there a limit on the number of merits than can be sent in one hit?

Yes, 50. It's also the limit that can be sent to the same person in one month.
Sending merits to the same person seems like supporting of a multiply account. If I would be a moderator such case would awake a lot of doubts and I would put a red trust on both.
Without coming up with a Merit Ponzi scheme I'll doubt I'll be ranking up anytime soon.
I am in the same position, man. There are a lot of users like us, unluckys.
dilaanQT
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February 09, 2018, 07:11:11 PM
 #2571

Hello everyone  Cheesy
I do read some massages and I found out the following:
Why questioning the personnel who have control in this forum.?
Questioning falls in two different stands
1. Agree &
2. Disagree

I think if the author of merit system will ask the community to give/share some ideas then that is the right time to discuss about.
Also I believed that if the personnel here like lauda, john (john), mprep, and more will discuss this in the way of not thrusting theymos in his terms and rules, then everyone can argue. But if they are silent not questioning the new system then there is no sense to discuss.
Of course I did not close my mind that my seniors just want to clarify there understanding on merit system.

In my opinion merit is VERY GOOD here in this bitcointalk forum.
I am new. Hope I will be like my seniors 3 years from now.  Grin

Best wishes to all...  Cheesy
Makkara
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February 09, 2018, 07:34:31 PM
 #2572

it would be interesting to see actual numbers, maybe  who/how many people are getting promoted to a new rank, before to say blindly "it works" ?


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abdulq
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February 09, 2018, 08:08:46 PM
 #2573

I fully do not understand this merit system, Please let me know whether newbie or jr member can give merit to any one?
MiLkz
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February 09, 2018, 08:11:36 PM
 #2574

Rankings are very hard to achieve now, it will be another 3+ years until I see Hero now..haha
ruletheworld
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February 09, 2018, 08:12:45 PM
 #2575

it would be interesting to see actual numbers, maybe  who/how many people are getting promoted to a new rank, before to say blindly "it works" ?

See, you're assuming that the success metric here is how many people are getting promoted. That's not the metric at all. In fact, quite the opposite. The forum would do well by being more selective.

The previous criteria for rank promotion relied solely on quantity of posts, which led to way too much low quality discussion. With the Merit system, it has added a dimension of quality as well, so you need both quantity and quality.

The goal is definitely not to make sure as many people as possible are getting promoted. The goal is to encourage higher quality posts.
zikabra
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February 09, 2018, 08:25:03 PM
 #2576

Without coming up with a Merit Ponzi scheme I'll doubt I'll be ranking up anytime soon.
There is infinite number of merits. There are merit sources who are receiving smerits every month so they can merit posts. You can't invest in merit, you can't buy merit, merit don't have end, btw do you know what ponzi scheme is?
it would be interesting to see actual numbers, maybe  who/how many people are getting promoted to a new rank, before to say blindly "it works" ?
I see only few members+ got enough merit to rank up, but merit is only 2 weeks old you can't expect to see results  in such short time period.
I fully do not understand this merit system, Please let me know whether newbie or jr member can give merit to any one?
By default, newbies and junior members don't have merits, but for every 2 smerit they receive they can send 1 smerit to other users.
Rankings are very hard to achieve now, it will be another 3+ years until I see Hero now..haha
If you continue to write short posts it might take 6+ years   Tongue
DomainTorrent
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February 09, 2018, 09:08:42 PM
 #2577

Without coming up with a Merit Ponzi scheme I'll doubt I'll be ranking up anytime soon.
There is infinite number of merits. There are merit sources who are receiving smerits every month so they can merit posts. You can't invest in merit, you can't buy merit, merit don't have end, btw do you know what ponzi scheme is?
it would be interesting to see actual numbers, maybe  who/how many people are getting promoted to a new rank, before to say blindly "it works" ?
I see only few members+ got enough merit to rank up, but merit is only 2 weeks old you can't expect to see results  in such short time period.
I fully do not understand this merit system, Please let me know whether newbie or jr member can give merit to any one?
By default, newbies and junior members don't have merits, but for every 2 smerit they receive they can send 1 smerit to other users.
Rankings are very hard to achieve now, it will be another 3+ years until I see Hero now..haha
If you continue to write short posts it might take 6+ years   Tongue

I guess you've just done a perfect example. Anyway, this merit system I have come to believe is beneficial to all who are optimistic of making this forum a better and a more productive one. Every forum is always filled with scumbags and worthless individuals. And we can understand the rationale and objective why this merit requirement is implemented as every possible step is done to at least minimize if not totally eradicate those bad eggs that destroy the reputation of this forum. The process of reaching that higher and prestigious rank is quite a long, arduous one but nevertheless it's worth it as the saying goes "there's no glory without sacrifice". Guess we just have to continue on giving positive, relevant, helpful, creative and significant posts no matter how much time it takes. True success requires sacrifice.
Piratte
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February 09, 2018, 09:21:36 PM
Last edit: February 09, 2018, 10:04:18 PM by Piratte
 #2578

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.

BTW, if anyone has any ideas for simple things that these ex-nonsense-posters could usefully do to make money, I think that this'd be a good project right now. There are apparently quite a few people who were making money on the forum and could use guidance. Even though their past activities were not good for this forum, I doubt that they are useless in general.



Merit awards may be too spotty/uneven currently, though it's still too early to say. In addition to continuously adding more sources, if things could still use improvement in this regard in a couple of months, I may do something like decay old sMerit and unused source merit and randomly redistribute the decayed merit. How the random distribution would work would magnify past merit -- so perhaps you would get an increased chance of winning extra merit for every post you've made which has at least 1 merit, but certainly you would not get any extra merit if none of your posts was ever merited.

Merit sales, transfers to aliases, back-and-forth trading, etc. are not much of an issue. All illegitimate merit will decay, and will account for a tiny and very expensive fraction of the total merit economy. It's basically a rounding error; fight it where convenient, but waste no sleep over it.

I think that actmyname has been too hasty with some of his negatives, but I haven't had time to look carefully enough into it to justify making forceful changes. I did exclude actmyname from my trust list, so another DT1 could remove him from the default trust network by doing the same.
you can limit the number of smerits that can be given to each message(only one for each member and maximum 5 smerit everyday etc. ) Wink this can prevent existing problems(multi acc, merit brotherhood)
some members(hero,legendary) have too many merits and they send it to their friends(+50,+30, +10..)

legendary members and mods can give 1 smerit for every 1 smerit they receive  Roll Eyes
Deena
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February 09, 2018, 10:40:41 PM
 #2579

Rankings are very hard to achieve now, it will be another 3+ years until I see Hero now..haha

It's not funny!  Angry  Cry

 Cheesy
Kaniel-ouots
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February 09, 2018, 10:49:36 PM
 #2580

no one merit i only got 5 merit from someone thats sucks really
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