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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 135267 times)
Deena
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January 26, 2018, 04:08:36 PM
 #1301

are you serious? they earn enough by posting? mhhh, then they really need not much money. and i can understand why they don't like the new merit-system.
but they have to be really desperate. if they have to earn money by posting and have no other options.

You got it wrong. It are the Legendaries and Heroes who are making livings out of posting. And the less competition they have the more living they make. Besides that it's an open secret that the long standing members have already gathered dozens of alt accounts on this forum. That's how they make their living. Merit system is status quo and that means nothing will change. Which is they way they want it, in their privilaged position.

Makes a lot of sense deena, i think you nailed it. And this post of yours might lead to another new rule, demerits😛

Demerits can be abused a lot and will lead to more complications.
I agree demerits can easily be abused but I think It is needed for the better sake of this forum , Most of us here just want more better quality post and to remove the account farmers. But let just wait for theymos decision. He'll just make his thing to improve this forum.

Demerit possilbilities will of course be again installed with the arrived happy few. And of course the possibility will then be abused again, as is the case with the trust system. The problem of this forum is, I keep repeating it, that there are hardly any objective rules and that punishment and reward are mainly located at the subjective whims of a couple of devious individuals.
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FrueGreads
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January 26, 2018, 04:10:55 PM
Merited by Dabs (1)
 #1302

I must say I'm a bit divided here. The idea looks great, but by having just a few merit sources doesn't it make the system a little centralized?

The "campaign spamming", and bad post quality is a problem, and this system should give everyone a chance to objectively quantify their opinion, in order to express if what they read in this forum is good or bad. The problem here, from my point of view, is that an opinion is of course always subjective, and if we restrict the merit sources to much, then we will have a system that may, or may not be, aligned with what the majority of users think or like.

Right now, I think that the ability to give Merit will somehow act as our voice in this forum, that should be used to judge content, and this is a good thing, but the problem is that we might "run out of voice" as we use it, unless we are a merit source.

I know there are two key factors to minimize this "centralization" problem.
-  We all start with sMerit that we can spend, and half of those sMerit points can be used by someone else.
-  We can apply for a "position" as a Merit Source, by gathering 10 posts for evaluation.

The problems here in my opinion are:
- The initial sMeirt should end soon enough if we don't manage to become a merit source (and we can no longer judge content).
- If we apply for a "position" as a merit source and we don't get one, our problem of eventually not being able to judge content in the forum will persist.

Right now I see three possible "solutions" for these problems.
- Everyone could decide who gets to be a merit source. "Applicants" would still gather at least 10 posts for evaluation, and the users could vote for them. Those with more votes would become a merit source. This is far from being ideal, but it is still less "centralized".
- Users would be given a small amount of sMerit, based on their activity (still not ideal, because Merit would be less valuable this way)
- There could be a new type of sMerit that users could purchase, and then use to evaluate content.

I think the third option is better and I will explain why. We all buy books, newspapers, movies, music, etc.
We buy these things because we like it's content, and by buying them, we are expressing just that. So I see no problem in buying sMerit, and then using it to express my support for some of the posts I read, because I liked them. Money is used to express value, so this is exactly what would be happening with this option.


To end this post, I will repeat that I like what this system provides (the ability to judge content), but I think the ability to give Merit should be as open as possible (without trivialization of course). Maybe I will never run out of sMerit, and what I think it could be a problem will never become one, but right now these are the concerns I have about this system.

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Mind Control
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January 26, 2018, 04:17:41 PM
 #1303

You want to multiply your Merit and you don't care how much sMerit you have? Easily done, if you have been able to spam a lot in the last years:

Account A: 1000 Merit / 500 sMerit
Account B: 0 Merit / 0 sMerit
-->
A sends B 500 sMerit

~snip

You can only send 50 sMerit to a user in a 30 days period.
It's going to take 10 months for that (or multiple accounts).

But since Merit is public it s also easy to trace.

This merit system could also be used to track and hunt down alts.   Roll Eyes
Obviously these farmers will abuse the merit system in order for their alts to rank up. Making it easier to track alts and could provide solid proofs.
Darthswan
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January 26, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
Last edit: January 26, 2018, 04:34:42 PM by Darthswan
Merited by suchmoon (1)
 #1304

To be honest, I would of course have slightly changed the conditions for awarding merit.

Legendary            3-10 sMerit max for post / and max 30 sMerit for person per month (min at least 3 posts will be marked,at a time not 1 as now)
Hero Memeber    2-5 sMerit max for post   / and max 20 sMerit for person per month (min at least 4 posts will be marked,at a time not 1 as now)
Sr.Member         1-3 sMerit max for post   / and max 9 sMerit for person per month (min at least 3 posts will be marked,at a time not 1 as now)  
Full.Member       1-2 sMerit max for post  / and max 4 sMerit for person per month (min at least 2 posts will be marked,at a time not 1 as now)
Member           only 1 sMerit max for post / and max 3 sMerit for person per month (min at least 1 posts will be marked,at a time not 1 as now)

So we solve many problems.
1) Worthy people with good posts will be awarded titles faster.
2) The older the title of a person, the more sMerit he can reward.
3) So we solve the problem of abuse with sMerit
4) So people will spend their sMerit wisely

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QuestionAuthority
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January 26, 2018, 04:24:00 PM
Merited by vlom (1)
 #1305

You want to multiply your Merit and you don't care how much sMerit you have? Easily done, if you have been able to spam a lot in the last years:

Account A: 1000 Merit / 500 sMerit
Account B: 0 Merit / 0 sMerit
-->
A sends B 500 sMerit

~snip

You can only send 50 sMerit to a user in a 30 days period.
It's going to take 10 months for that (or multiple accounts).

But since Merit is public it s also easy to trace.

This merit system could also be used to track and hunt down alts.   Roll Eyes
Obviously these farmers will abuse the merit system in order for their alts to rank up. Making it easier to track alts and could provide solid proofs.

Except it’s not against the rules to have alts and it’s not against the rules to sell accounts. If they would ban people for doing those two things you would probably have a solution to the problem they are trying to solve with the merit system.

vegita1233
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January 26, 2018, 04:24:21 PM
 #1306


- Everyone could decide who gets to be a merit source. "Applicants" would still gather at least 10 posts for evaluation, and the users could vote for them. Those with more votes would become a merit source. This is far from being ideal, but it is still less "centralized".
- Users would be given a small amount of sMerit, based on their activity (still not ideal, because Merit would be less valuable this way)
- There could be a new type of sMerit that users could purchase, and then use to evaluate content.

I think the third option is better and I will explain why. We all buy books, newspapers, movies, music, etc.
We buy these things because we like it's content, and by buying them, we are expressing just that. So I see no problem in buying sMerit, and then using it to express my support for some of the posts I read, because I liked them. Money is used to express value, so this is exactly what would be happening with this option.


To end this post, I will repeat that I like what this system provides (the ability to judge content), but I think the ability to give Merit should be as open as possible (without trivialization of course). Maybe I will never run out of sMerit, and what I think it could be a problem will never become one, but right now these are the concerns I have about this system.

I actually like this idea.  I mean at this point a merit is basically like a reddit gold.  People should be able to just buy it to reward good posts.  As far as leveling up goes my feeling is the majority won't be leveling up because the content is just average to poor.  If anything I would love to have another setting to never ever see anything except 'merited' posts.  I can't wait for the campaigns to switch to merit rather than activity but it would have been better if everyone just started with 0 merits and have to earn back their ranks rather than be forced to read the higher up's shitpost by default.  

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djangocoin
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January 26, 2018, 04:34:45 PM
 #1307

To make this system fair as it should be its primary pourpose, we all should start from scratch, with no rank whatsoever.

At present time, it mixes old ranks farmed with old rules with new shiny merit rules.

It's a system that promotes fairness, born in the most unfair way, putting low ranks in an HUGE disadvantage.

I think i agree with you. In the sense that the system is a fair one based on the premise that we all started from scratch (all start from zero).

:]
Mind Control
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January 26, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
 #1308

You want to multiply your Merit and you don't care how much sMerit you have? Easily done, if you have been able to spam a lot in the last years:

Account A: 1000 Merit / 500 sMerit
Account B: 0 Merit / 0 sMerit
-->
A sends B 500 sMerit

~snip

You can only send 50 sMerit to a user in a 30 days period.
It's going to take 10 months for that (or multiple accounts).

But since Merit is public it s also easy to trace.

This merit system could also be used to track and hunt down alts.   Roll Eyes
Obviously these farmers will abuse the merit system in order for their alts to rank up. Making it easier to track alts and could provide solid proofs.

Except it’s not against the rules to have alts and it’s not against the rules to sell accounts. If they would ban people for doing those two things you would probably have a solution to the problem they are trying to solve with the merit system.

True, but sooner or later the moderators will figure out that some random farmers are abusing the merit system by exchanging merits between their own account. The true purpose of the merit system is to promote quality posting and lessen spamming and shitposting, right? But by abusing the system will just provide solid proof to those having alts that eventually abused bounties as well.
djangocoin
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Brave New World


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January 26, 2018, 04:42:02 PM
 #1309

what i don't get is why people want to rank up. or why the do want to rank up so desperate.

don't answer me with this: its easy for you, you are a legendary member.... blabla.....

do they just want a higher rank because the possibility the join a signature campaign is higher and the payout is higher too?
or do they think that their post are more important because of their rank?
or do they need the rank to feel better?

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment Wink

Let me flip the question back to you: If being a higher rank is so undesirable or worthless then why make it so hard/time consuming to become one? Wink

:]
suchmoon
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January 26, 2018, 04:43:23 PM
 #1310

Except it’s not against the rules to have alts and it’s not against the rules to sell accounts. If they would ban people for doing those two things you would probably have a solution to the problem they are trying to solve with the merit system.

It would be difficult to enforce a ban on alts/sales. The merit system might make having alts less attractive since it's so much harder to rank up now. Baby steps.

YuTü.Co.in
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Re-monetizing YouTubers via Crypto-commodities


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January 26, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
Merited by Dabs (1)
 #1311


We can apply for a "position" as a Merit Source, by gathering 10 posts for evaluation.


Genius! So, instead of mods doing ... I don't know, maybe modding ... they'll now dedicate countless hours reading past posts in assessing if the countless submitters merit being an sM source while still getting paid for their modding prowess from this forum's coffer which, BTW, was first uncovered by me, whereupon theymos verified the practice back in the day, previously such was unknown to the community at large.

In essence, pretend there's a restaurant that has fallen disarray due to subordinates not performing up to par, causing visitors to proclaim to others that the place is a shithole. The owner of the restaurant wants to clean up the place. Thanks to his infinite wisdom, the owner instructs his managers (think: mods) to start cleaning the toilets on a more regular basis, sweep the parking lot every four hours, Windex all the glass three times a day, dust the curtains every day, and make sure the menus are always clean. All that on top of their already busy schedule sans an immediate increase in pay, but the mods' managers' performance will be continually monitored in making sure that the subordinates are in check, thus bettering the environment for patrons to enjoy once again. All the while, the people operating the credit card machine at the cash register and the servers and the cooks are stealing from the restaurant, other employees and patrons - even worst if the managers are in on the act.

Genius!


"Madness!"

vlom
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January 26, 2018, 04:47:08 PM
 #1312

what i don't get is why people want to rank up. or why the do want to rank up so desperate.

don't answer me with this: its easy for you, you are a legendary member.... blabla.....

do they just want a higher rank because the possibility the join a signature campaign is higher and the payout is higher too?
or do they think that their post are more important because of their rank?
or do they need the rank to feel better?

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment Wink

Let me flip the question back to you: If being a higher rank is so undesirable or worthless then why make it so hard/time consuming to become one? Wink

i did not say it is worthless. for me it is rather worthless. others will have a different opinion.
and i don't think that it was hard or time consuming. i just levelled up while using the forum.

|\¯¯ \   /¯¯/| |¯¯¯|__'  /¯¯,¯¯\     /¯¯\/¯ \'  
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QuestionAuthority
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January 26, 2018, 04:50:12 PM
 #1313

You want to multiply your Merit and you don't care how much sMerit you have? Easily done, if you have been able to spam a lot in the last years:

Account A: 1000 Merit / 500 sMerit
Account B: 0 Merit / 0 sMerit
-->
A sends B 500 sMerit

~snip

You can only send 50 sMerit to a user in a 30 days period.
It's going to take 10 months for that (or multiple accounts).

But since Merit is public it s also easy to trace.

This merit system could also be used to track and hunt down alts.   Roll Eyes
Obviously these farmers will abuse the merit system in order for their alts to rank up. Making it easier to track alts and could provide solid proofs.

Except it’s not against the rules to have alts and it’s not against the rules to sell accounts. If they would ban people for doing those two things you would probably have a solution to the problem they are trying to solve with the merit system.

True, but sooner or later the moderators will figure out that some random farmers are abusing the merit system by exchanging merits between their own account. The true purpose of the merit system is to promote quality posting and lessen spamming and shitposting, right? But by abusing the system will just provide solid proof to those having alts that eventually abused bounties as well.

True, it could be useful to highlight that but you must realize that will take a lot of time to research too. You will have the proof you need but this is a private non profit business. The administration doesn’t really need much proof if they want to permanently ban an account. They can do it if they just strongly feel the account is abusing the system. Merit is supposed to free up mods to do other work not overly encumber them with more work.

QuestionAuthority
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January 26, 2018, 04:52:14 PM
 #1314

Except it’s not against the rules to have alts and it’s not against the rules to sell accounts. If they would ban people for doing those two things you would probably have a solution to the problem they are trying to solve with the merit system.

It would be difficult to enforce a ban on alts/sales. The merit system might make having alts less attractive since it's so much harder to rank up now. Baby steps.

Yeah, I understand. Even if you do ban them they will simply do it somewhere else so it’s pointless. Let’s hope it works as expected.

djangocoin
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Brave New World


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January 26, 2018, 04:52:20 PM
 #1315

what i don't get is why people want to rank up. or why the do want to rank up so desperate.

don't answer me with this: its easy for you, you are a legendary member.... blabla.....

do they just want a higher rank because the possibility the join a signature campaign is higher and the payout is higher too?
or do they think that their post are more important because of their rank?
or do they need the rank to feel better?

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment Wink

Let me flip the question back to you: If being a higher rank is so undesirable or worthless then why make it so hard/time consuming to become one? Wink

i did not say it is worthless. for me it is rather worthless. others will have a different opinion.
and i don't think that it was hard or time consuming. i just levelled up while using the forum.


Fair point, but i am quite sure it consumed a lot of time, even if it is productively spent Wink

I suppose hard as in you hear (before merit came in to play) a lot of newbies bemoaning about how hard it is to rank up etc.

:]
FrueGreads
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January 26, 2018, 04:54:58 PM
 #1316


We can apply for a "position" as a Merit Source, by gathering 10 posts for evaluation.



What are you trying to say here? That is not a suggestion, my suggestions are at the end of the post.
What you quoted is actually the procedure that needs to be done for someone to try to become a merit source.
You can actually read that in the OP of this thread:


If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.


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  BTC & BCH | API| MULTIADDRESS| PGP PROOF|  FAST MIX |  ESCROW|  MORE ! 

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suchmoon
Legendary
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Activity: 2044
Merit: 3801


Pedal-powered plaguebot


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January 26, 2018, 04:55:20 PM
 #1317

what i don't get is why people want to rank up. or why the do want to rank up so desperate.

don't answer me with this: its easy for you, you are a legendary member.... blabla.....

do they just want a higher rank because the possibility the join a signature campaign is higher and the payout is higher too?
or do they think that their post are more important because of their rank?
or do they need the rank to feel better?

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment Wink

Let me flip the question back to you: If being a higher rank is so undesirable or worthless then why make it so hard/time consuming to become one? Wink

Rank is just a carrot to entice shitposters focus on quality rather than quantity. It shouldn't be hard or time consuming for quality posters but we'll need to wait a few months to see how that shakes out.

Kavallo
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January 26, 2018, 04:55:51 PM
 #1318


Just like with beggars on the street, I would be willing to give to a beggar that’s creative. I would give this guy $10.



Of course, a creative beggar is providing a service which should be rewarded. However, I'm afraid 10$ would solve only a few micron of that beggar's problem Smiley
So should we open a CREATIVE MERIT BEGGING thread? Wink
That would open the way to a whole new ecology of merit-rewarding games and competitions, even though I am afraid that the true spirit of the reform could get *slightly* twisted in the process...

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omorfi
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Activity: 728
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January 26, 2018, 05:02:14 PM
 #1319

Merit can be turn into a purchasable commodity in the future. Instead, a method should be developed that forbids sending messages of less than 75 or more characters for quality. This may be a more convenient solution
Mind Control
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January 26, 2018, 05:07:51 PM
 #1320

Merit can be turn into a purchasable commodity in the future. Instead, a method should be developed that forbids sending messages of less than 75 or more characters for quality. This may be a more convenient solution

The quality of post does not depend on the length but on the content.
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